I once heard that it was made out of Adamantium but I thought that made no sense. Steel sounds right. "
I think it was adamantium when he was wearing the DD armor. "
DD armor? "
"
That looks surprisingly cool. Thanks. "
No problem. DD is very cool in general though. But I could hardly find a decent pic of this suit. Vance should have more. Here's another, this time from the site:
Does Lizard have a significantly different physiology to prevent DD from using precision or nerve strikes against him? Currently, I'm thinking Lizard takes it, but I'd be willing to listen to your argument. "
I already gave an argument but considering the other people DD has been able to hurt I don't see why he couldn't hurt the Lizard.
"but considering the other people DD has been able to hurt I don't see why he couldn't hurt the Lizard. "
Were any of them.....lizards? I mean, from what I've heard it seems that the way DD deals with a lot of more powerful enemies is to hit them in vulnerable areas like their nerves. Now, for Hyde that might have worked because he's more or less human, right? Lizard isn't......he might have a different body set up, so if DD tried to hit him in a nervous area or what-have-you it might not even work. This is, of course, if he can get through Lizard's attacks to get close enough to mess him up.
Ya know thats actually a good point Sparda..but Lizard still has some human like traits..like being able to stand up on two feet..I don't think his anatomy would be vastly different from a human...still good point though
"but considering the other people DD has been able to hurt I don't see why he couldn't hurt the Lizard. "
Were any of them.....lizards? I mean, from what I've heard it seems that the way DD deals with a lot of more powerful enemies is to hit them in vulnerable areas like their nerves. Now, for Hyde that might have worked because he's more or less human, right? Lizard isn't......he might have a different body set up, so if DD tried to hit him in a nervous area or what-have-you it might not even work. This is, of course, if he can get through Lizard's attacks to get close enough to mess him up. "
LOL.
Well DD has fought a race of aliens who were Lizards.This is where he also displayed the ability to dodge lasers. DD has owned more than just Hyde with nerve strikes.He's used them on Nuke and Tri-Man both of which don't even have nerves.Nuke is mostly cybernetic parts under the skin.DD owned another android too.His name wasn't given but he had superhuman strength and durability.I think DD calls this attacking stress points.They aren't really nerve strikes but he is hitting a spot where they are weak.Every living being has these.He shows this on inanimate objects as well when he bends those steel bars and the ones he kicked through against Dr.Doom.
I don't think DD will be untouched but I don't think the Lizard will be able to get of a hit that will put DD down for got.
" Well DD has fought a race of aliens who were Lizards.This is where he also displayed the ability to dodge lasers. DD has owned more than just Hyde with nerve strikes.He's used them on Nuke and Tri-Man both of which don't even have nerves.Nuke is mostly cybernetic parts under the skin.DD owned another android too.His name wasn't given but he had superhuman strength and durability.I think DD calls this attacking stress points.They aren't really nerve strikes but he is hitting a spot where they are weak.Every living being has these.He shows this on inanimate objects as well when he bends those steel bars and the ones he kicked through against Dr.Doom. I don't think DD will be untouched but I don't think the Lizard will be able to get of a hit that will put DD down for got. "
So DD is Karnak now? :P
I suppose my previous points about nerve strikes are now rendered pretty much irrelevant, so.....moving on.....
Well, Lizard can contend in combat with Spider-Man (I know, sort of ABC logic, but damn it, sometimes that works and it's half the basis for most feats anyways). Now, Spider-Man may not be as skilled, combat wise as DD, but he definitely is faster and probably more acrobatic and agile. It stands to reason that if Lizard has gotten shots off on Spider-Man, then he should be able to get shots off on DD......except, of course, DD doesn't have the same level of durability that Spider-Man has and I think that if it's not just the most barest glancing blow, DD would either A) Die, or B) Be incapacitated, or C) Be stunned long enough for Lizard to finish him off. Lizard has dangerous weapons on his body....claws, teeth, his tail (which could kill DD if it got even one hit on him), that I think are all extremely dangerous to Murdock.
Lizard is pretty savage, so he won't be giving much time for DD to think.......maybe this is a disadvantage as well, as DD could outsmart him or use the environment. But I think in the given environment, the advantage is more likely to Lizard. There's not too many ways for DD to exploit the area to injure him, and if he tries to run or move to a different position then Lizard will be on top of him in seconds. If the fight goes ontop of a small building, it doesn't really matter to Lizard but on the other hand, if DD got knocked off he could be injured or stun for the kill. I don't think the fight could go on top of skyscrapers or larger buildings, as Lizard is too fast for DD to get to those points and if he was in mid-climb or ascent, he could get swatted down to the ground pretty quick. Going into a building or the sewers or anything would be suicide in enclosed spaces against Lizard, I think.
I don't know. The more I think about it the less likely I think DD is coming out of this. Although, this is a lot of fun-I haven't debated like this is some time!
" Well DD has fought a race of aliens who were Lizards.This is where he also displayed the ability to dodge lasers. DD has owned more than just Hyde with nerve strikes.He's used them on Nuke and Tri-Man both of which don't even have nerves.Nuke is mostly cybernetic parts under the skin.DD owned another android too.His name wasn't given but he had superhuman strength and durability.I think DD calls this attacking stress points.They aren't really nerve strikes but he is hitting a spot where they are weak.Every living being has these.He shows this on inanimate objects as well when he bends those steel bars and the ones he kicked through against Dr.Doom. I don't think DD will be untouched but I don't think the Lizard will be able to get of a hit that will put DD down for got. "
So DD is Karnak now? :P I suppose my previous points about nerve strikes are now rendered pretty much irrelevant, so.....moving on..... Well, Lizard can contend in combat with Spider-Man (I know, sort of ABC logic, but damn it, sometimes that works and it's half the basis for most feats anyways). Now, Spider-Man may not be as skilled, combat wise as DD, but he definitely is faster and probably more acrobatic and agile. It stands to reason that if Lizard has gotten shots off on Spider-Man, then he should be able to get shots off on DD......except, of course, DD doesn't have the same level of durability that Spider-Man has and I think that if it's not just the most barest glancing blow, DD would either A) Die, or B) Be incapacitated, or C) Be stunned long enough for Lizard to finish him off. Lizard has dangerous weapons on his body....claws, teeth, his tail (which could kill DD if it got even one hit on him), that I think are all extremely dangerous to Murdock. Lizard is pretty savage, so he won't be giving much time for DD to think.......maybe this is a disadvantage as well, as DD could outsmart him or use the environment. But I think in the given environment, the advantage is more likely to Lizard. There's not too many ways for DD to exploit the area to injure him, and if he tries to run or move to a different position then Lizard will be on top of him in seconds. If the fight goes ontop of a small building, it doesn't really matter to Lizard but on the other hand, if DD got knocked off he could be injured or stun for the kill. I don't think the fight could go on top of skyscrapers or larger buildings, as Lizard is too fast for DD to get to those points and if he was in mid-climb or ascent, he could get swatted down to the ground pretty quick. Going into a building or the sewers or anything would be suicide in enclosed spaces against Lizard, I think. I don't know. The more I think about it the less likely I think DD is coming out of this. Although, this is a lot of fun-I haven't debated like this is some time! "
Good points, but I think they already having been adressed. I insisted that the Lizard should be able to critically injure DD, kill him, or KO him with one shot, but Vance insisted that DD is far too good an acrobat for it to happen. We just have different views on the subject, I guess.
" Well DD has fought a race of aliens who were Lizards.This is where he also displayed the ability to dodge lasers. DD has owned more than just Hyde with nerve strikes.He's used them on Nuke and Tri-Man both of which don't even have nerves.Nuke is mostly cybernetic parts under the skin.DD owned another android too.His name wasn't given but he had superhuman strength and durability.I think DD calls this attacking stress points.They aren't really nerve strikes but he is hitting a spot where they are weak.Every living being has these.He shows this on inanimate objects as well when he bends those steel bars and the ones he kicked through against Dr.Doom. I don't think DD will be untouched but I don't think the Lizard will be able to get of a hit that will put DD down for got. "
So DD is Karnak now? :P I suppose my previous points about nerve strikes are now rendered pretty much irrelevant, so.....moving on..... Well, Lizard can contend in combat with Spider-Man (I know, sort of ABC logic, but damn it, sometimes that works and it's half the basis for most feats anyways). Now, Spider-Man may not be as skilled, combat wise as DD, but he definitely is faster and probably more acrobatic and agile. It stands to reason that if Lizard has gotten shots off on Spider-Man, then he should be able to get shots off on DD......except, of course, DD doesn't have the same level of durability that Spider-Man has and I think that if it's not just the most barest glancing blow, DD would either A) Die, or B) Be incapacitated, or C) Be stunned long enough for Lizard to finish him off. Lizard has dangerous weapons on his body....claws, teeth, his tail (which could kill DD if it got even one hit on him), that I think are all extremely dangerous to Murdock. Lizard is pretty savage, so he won't be giving much time for DD to think.......maybe this is a disadvantage as well, as DD could outsmart him or use the environment. But I think in the given environment, the advantage is more likely to Lizard. There's not too many ways for DD to exploit the area to injure him, and if he tries to run or move to a different position then Lizard will be on top of him in seconds. If the fight goes ontop of a small building, it doesn't really matter to Lizard but on the other hand, if DD got knocked off he could be injured or stun for the kill. I don't think the fight could go on top of skyscrapers or larger buildings, as Lizard is too fast for DD to get to those points and if he was in mid-climb or ascent, he could get swatted down to the ground pretty quick. Going into a building or the sewers or anything would be suicide in enclosed spaces against Lizard, I think. I don't know. The more I think about it the less likely I think DD is coming out of this. Although, this is a lot of fun-I haven't debated like this is some time! "
1.DD doesn't need much time to think.The Lizard is no faster than anyone else with superhuman speed he's fought and he's a far inferior fighter. 2.Contending with Spider-Man in combat is something DD has done on several occasions even with there being nothing to hold Spider-Man back.Also Spider-Man has shown to be incompetent in combat. 3.Daredevil has shown that speed is no advantage for Spider-Man against him.He easily dodged his attacks and landed his own.His radar sense has also been shown to be alot better than Spider-Sense. 4.The Lizard only really gets shots off on Spider-Man because he's Spider-Man's villain.It's the same reason Daredevil can dodge superhumans all day but then be tagged by someone like Jester. 5.The Lizard would have to get a really good shot off on DD.He can't scrape him or just barely touch him.He has to really hit him hard.DD has taken hits from people as strong as if not stronger than the Lizard.Just recently he fought the Wrecker who knocked a whole building wall on to him. 6.The odds of the Lizard using the environment to get close to DD is ridiculous.DD can't see remember? His radar doesn't lose the target.As long as the Lizard is in the general area and he's breathing he won't be surprising DD. 7.DD has beaten people who are faster,stronger,more agile,better acrobats,better fighters,and more durable than the Lizard.I don't see how this is becoming less likely he will win.
"1.DD doesn't need much time to think.The Lizard is no faster than anyone else with superhuman speed he's fought and he's a far inferior fighter. 2.Contending with Spider-Man in combat is something DD has done on several occasions even with there being nothing to hold Spider-Man back.Also Spider-Man has shown to be incompetent in combat. 3.Daredevil has shown that speed is no advantage for Spider-Man against him.He easily dodged his attacks and landed his own.His radar sense has also been shown to be alot better than Spider-Sense. 4.The Lizard only really gets shots off on Spider-Man because he's Spider-Man's villain.It's the same reason Daredevil can dodge superhumans all day but then be tagged by someone like Jester. 5.The Lizard would have to get a really good shot off on DD.He can't scrape him or just barely touch him.He has to really hit him hard.DD has taken hits from people as strong as if not stronger than the Lizard.Just recently he fought the Wrecker who knocked a whole building wall on to him. 6.The odds of the Lizard using the environment to get close to DD is ridiculous.DD can't see remember? His radar doesn't lose the target.As long as the Lizard is in the general area and he's breathing he won't be surprising DD. 7.DD has beaten people who are faster,stronger,more agile,better acrobats,better fighters,and more durable than the Lizard.I don't see how this is becoming less likely he will win. "
Oh damn, Vance pulled out the numbers. It's getting serious now ;)
1. How many people has DD fought with superhuman speed? I need names here, too. Did any of them have the combat abilities that Lizard posseses? 2. I think I've seen DD fight Spider-Man. Spider-Man got beat that one time when he had the symbiote, right? When he just rushed DD because he was under it's influence? And DD one-shotted him? IMO, that was pretty garbage to me, but there were probably other times. Were there other times? Can you describe them? 3. How can radar-sense be better than Spider-Sense? SS senses danger and (I believe once....?) Parker used it to fight someone he was looking for, but it's a different thing that RS, isn't it? Which tells Murdock the environment, like sonar and such? How is Parker's speed no advantage? Isn't DD a normal (albeit extremely atheletic and trained, but not superhuman) man? How can he possibly keep up with Spider-Man at all if he was fighting seriously? I smell PIS, personally :P 4. Okay? He still did it. I know that seems contradictory in comparison to what I just said about PIS, but Lizard does it all the time against Parker and at least he has some logic on his side. He is superhuman every way physically. It makes sense for him to tag Parker. 5. Wrecker doesn't have claws, does he? That's what I was referring to about winging him and whatnot. Even if Lizard just wings DD, with those claws, he could take a chunk out of him even if it was just glancing. Blood loss would be serious. 6. I didn't say Lizard would use the environment against DD. I said DD couldn't use it against Lizard. 7. Could you name them?
@Morpheus_ said:
"Good points, but I think they already having been adressed. I insisted that the Lizard should be able to critically injure DD, kill him, or KO him with one shot, but Vance insisted that DD is far too good an acrobat for it to happen. We just have different views on the subject, I guess. "
Yeah, I'm just sort of bored though and too lazy to read the rest of the thread so I'm debating, ahaha.
"1.DD doesn't need much time to think.The Lizard is no faster than anyone else with superhuman speed he's fought and he's a far inferior fighter. 2.Contending with Spider-Man in combat is something DD has done on several occasions even with there being nothing to hold Spider-Man back.Also Spider-Man has shown to be incompetent in combat. 3.Daredevil has shown that speed is no advantage for Spider-Man against him.He easily dodged his attacks and landed his own.His radar sense has also been shown to be alot better than Spider-Sense. 4.The Lizard only really gets shots off on Spider-Man because he's Spider-Man's villain.It's the same reason Daredevil can dodge superhumans all day but then be tagged by someone like Jester. 5.The Lizard would have to get a really good shot off on DD.He can't scrape him or just barely touch him.He has to really hit him hard.DD has taken hits from people as strong as if not stronger than the Lizard.Just recently he fought the Wrecker who knocked a whole building wall on to him. 6.The odds of the Lizard using the environment to get close to DD is ridiculous.DD can't see remember? His radar doesn't lose the target.As long as the Lizard is in the general area and he's breathing he won't be surprising DD. 7.DD has beaten people who are faster,stronger,more agile,better acrobats,better fighters,and more durable than the Lizard.I don't see how this is becoming less likely he will win. "
Oh damn, Vance pulled out the numbers. It's getting serious now ;)
2. I think I've seen DD fight Spider-Man. Spider-Man got beat that one time when he had the symbiote, right? When he just rushed DD because he was under it's influence? And DD one-shotted him? IMO, that was pretty garbage to me, but there were probably other times. Were there other times? Can you describe them?
@Morpheus_ said:
"Good points, but I think they already having been adressed. I insisted that the Lizard should be able to critically injure DD, kill him, or KO him with one shot, but Vance insisted that DD is far too good an acrobat for it to happen. We just have different views on the subject, I guess. "
Yeah, I'm just sort of bored though and too lazy to read the rest of the thread so I'm debating, ahaha. "
Spider-man was infuriated because the Sin-Eater killed Jean DeWolff, and he beat him to a pulp, nearly killing him. DD objected to this, and the two fought. As already mentioned earlier in the thread, DD admitted that he shouldn't have been able to win if Peter was himself, and not under the influence of internal pain and anger. I can't recall another symbiote Spider-man vs DD fight. Vance should know. He is the DD expert. The fight probably wasn't in Amazing Spider-man though, or I would most likely remember it.
Spider-man was infuriated because the Sin-Eater killed Jean DeWolff, and he beat him to a pulp, nearly killing him. DD objected to this, and the two fought. As already mentioned earlier in the thread, DD admitted that he shouldn't have been able to win if Peter was himself, and not under the influence of internal pain and anger. I can't recall another symbiote Spider-man vs DD fight. Vance should know. He is the DD expert. The fight probably wasn't in Amazing Spider-man though, or I would most likely remember it. "
My only points with DD fighting Spider-Man is the Lizard doing it doesn't help his case because DD has already done it.The two times he fought Spider-Man without him being brainwashed or emotionally disturbed..DD barely lost.DD fought Symbiote Spider-Man twice.Once when DD provoked him and he he chased him and another time where DD was dressed like the Kingpin.Both times he demonstrated the ability to keep up with DD despite him being the superior in agility and speed.
@Sparda said:
Oh damn, Vance pulled out the numbers. It's getting serious now ;)
1. How many people has DD fought with superhuman speed? I need names here, too. Did any of them have the combat abilities that Lizard posseses? 2. I think I've seen DD fight Spider-Man. Spider-Man got beat that one time when he had the symbiote, right? When he just rushed DD because he was under it's influence? And DD one-shotted him? IMO, that was pretty garbage to me, but there were probably other times. Were there other times? Can you describe them? 3. How can radar-sense be better than Spider-Sense? SS senses danger and (I believe once....?) Parker used it to fight someone he was looking for, but it's a different thing that RS, isn't it? Which tells Murdock the environment, like sonar and such? How is Parker's speed no advantage? Isn't DD a normal (albeit extremely atheletic and trained, but not superhuman) man? How can he possibly keep up with Spider-Man at all if he was fighting seriously? I smell PIS, personally :P 4. Okay? He still did it. I know that seems contradictory in comparison to what I just said about PIS, but Lizard does it all the time against Parker and at least he has some logic on his side. He is superhuman every way physically. It makes sense for him to tag Parker. 5. Wrecker doesn't have claws, does he? That's what I was referring to about winging him and whatnot. Even if Lizard just wings DD, with those claws, he could take a chunk out of him even if it was just glancing. Blood loss would be serious. 6. I didn't say Lizard would use the environment against DD. I said DD couldn't use it against Lizard. 7. Could you name them?
Oh Yea!
1.I cannot give you a number of people DD has fought with superhuman speed but I can name some of them. A.Sabretooth B.Venom C.Spider-Man D.Mandrill E.Torpedo F.Speed Demon G.Whirlwind H.Kraven I.Beast
2.DD fought Spider-Man several times.The first time he was brainwashed,the second time he went looking for DD and DD tied him to a post with the cable in his billy club and ran off.The third time he was bloodlust.The third and fourth times he was wearing the symbiote.Once he lose,once he won.Another time Spider-Man was pissed at Murdock (can't remember what for) and Spider-Man owned him.The only other time I remember,they didn't finish the fight because a villain showed up.
3.Radar sense is better than Spider-Sense because it does more..but DD has shown to detect things before Spider-Man does.For instance once during a team up Nightcrawler showed up..but before he did DD says, "someone's coming" Spider-Man is like "really I don't feel anything".Spider-Man's sense goes of in the next panel as Nightcrawler appears.Another time DD and Spider-Man are on a rooftop and Spider-Man tells him there are six people coming and DD says "I know".
4.Spider-Man and DD are constantly shown to dodge superhuman opponents.DD has even been said to be impossible to sneak up on ever if you're a ghost.However sometimes their villains creatively get the drop on them and other times it's just plain bad writing.I mean Rhino has tagged Spider-Man..he can barely maneuver.Yes, DD is a normal man with peak human reflexes..how ever what's actually human doesn't apply in Marvel.Cap is supposed to be peak human too and he's kicking down steel doors and knocking out 100 tonners.
5.No..but Wolverine has claws and he's alot better of a fighter than the Lizard.Plus believe it or not he has superhuman speed.I know they would never let Wolvie kill DD but since he has consistently shown not to leave a fight with Wolverine without a scratch..I would assume he can do the same with the Lizard.
6.DD can use the environment against anyone..what's stopping him? I have seen him pull parking meters out of the ground to increase the power of his attacks,pick up sewer tops and launch them.DD doesn't need the environment but if he wanted to use it he definitely could.
" Oh Yea! 1.I cannot give you a number of people DD has fought with superhuman speed but I can name some of them. A.Sabretooth B.Venom C.Spider-Man D.Mandrill E.Torpedo F.Speed Demon G.WhirlwindH.Kraven I.Beast 2.DD fought Spider-Man several times.The first time he was brainwashed,the second time he went looking for DD and DD tied him to a post with the cable in his billy club and ran off.The third time he was bloodlust.The third and fourth times he was wearing the symbiote.Once he lose,once he won.Another time Spider-Man was pissed at Murdock (can't remember what for) and Spider-Man owned him.The only other time I remember,they didn't finish the fight because a villain showed up. 3.Radar sense is better than Spider-Sense because it does more..but DD has shown to detect things before Spider-Man does.For instance once during a team up Nightcrawler showed up..but before he did DD says, "someone's coming" Spider-Man is like "really I don't feel anything".Spider-Man's sense goes of in the next panel as Nightcrawler appears.Another time DD and Spider-Man are on a rooftop and Spider-Man tells him there are six people coming and DD says "I know". 4.Spider-Man and DD are constantly shown to dodge superhuman opponents.DD has even been said to be impossible to sneak up on ever if you're a ghost.However sometimes their villains creatively get the drop on them and other times it's just plain bad writing.I mean Rhino has tagged Spider-Man..he can barely maneuver.Yes, DD is a normal man with peak human reflexes..how ever what's actually human doesn't apply in Marvel.Cap is supposed to be peak human too and he's kicking down steel doors and knocking out 100 tonners. 5.No..but Wolverine has claws and he's alot better of a fighter than the Lizard.Plus believe it or not he has superhuman speed.I know they would never let Wolvie kill DD but since he has consistently shown not to leave a fight with Wolverine without a scratch..I would assume he can do the same with the Lizard. 6.DD can use the environment against anyone..what's stopping him? I have seen him pull parking meters out of the ground to increase the power of his attacks,pick up sewer tops and launch them.DD doesn't need the environment but if he wanted to use it he definitely could. 7.Sure.... A.Roughhouse B.Dark Messiah C.Symbiote Spider-Man D.Adversary "
1. A) Sabretooth has superhuman speed? Really? I didn't know that. B) Oh right....jesus, did DD beat Venom too? Could you give me some info on that encounter? C) He lost when Spider-Man was in his right mind, though, right? D) Dunno who that is E) Ditto F) Okay, how that one go down too? How did DD beat him without breaking the part of his body he hit him with? Or how'd he tag him with his baton? Speed demon's a speedster, right, so he should have been able to avoid it. G) I just wanna know how DD hit him for this one. H) Kraven is slower than Lizard, isn't he? I) Same with Beast? 2. Sounds like they've got a pretty much draw record going on there, then. Still, all the times that Parker lose, he wasn't really himself, was he (not being snarky, just curious about everything)? 3. For the Nightcrawler example-was NC attacked Parker? Otherwise, the SS shouldn't have gone off, right? For the people on the roof example-sounds to me like they both knew it, and Parker just said it out loud. 4. It sounds logical for Parker to dodge superhuman opponents, because he is superhuman, but for DD if they have superhuman agility and it's a straight out find with no interference, no environmental shortcomings, it doesn't sound right to me. Cap has a bigass shield made of some crazy as hell metal, I think that's part of the reason he's knocked down 100 tonners (I assume you're referring to when he took down Hulk? Which was dumb anyways, but hey......). 5. Wolverine having superhuman speed sounds fishy to me. All handbooks, encyclopedias I have claim that he's a normal man (who regularly engages in extensive physical exercise). You got any notable times he's demonstrated such speed? I mean, he's fast, but I don't think he can move as fast as Lizard. Lizard also is a lot bigger, has significantly larger reach than Wolvie, is stronger, and has the tail which basically gives him another limb to fight with (except it's longer and could kill DD with one good shot).. 6. I don't see him pulling parking meters out of the ground when he's got this (goddamn huge) lizard guy rushing at him with his claws, giant alligator teeth/face, whatnot. I guess I shouldn't have said he can't use the environment, but rather I think it's pretty unlikely and it would be ineffective in my opinion. 7. A) Dunno who that is B) Ditto C) Wasn't himself, was he? Was he fighting to maximum capacity? Like you said, there was a time when Parker "curbstomped" DD and he wasn't even Symbiote then. D) Dunno who that is.
(Every time I didn't know who the person is, it'd be awesome if you could tell me what they could do/extent of their powers and whatnot, how you fight was going or something like that. I know I'm asking a lot, but......no, scratch that, I am asking a lot and I don't care :P)
DD did not beat Venom, it was a rather brief encounter. He also didn't defeat Sabretooth...He was also hit A LOT in that encounter, if he tried the same with Lizard, it would be over in seconds.
" DD did not beat Venom, it was a rather brief encounter. He also didn't defeat Sabretooth...He was also hit A LOT in that encounter, if he tried the same with Lizard, it would be over in seconds. "
Sabretooth ran and you must be talking about a different encounter with Venom.
" Oh Yea! 1.I cannot give you a number of people DD has fought with superhuman speed but I can name some of them. A.Sabretooth B.Venom C.Spider-Man D.Mandrill E.Torpedo F.Speed Demon G.WhirlwindH.Kraven I.Beast 2.DD fought Spider-Man several times.The first time he was brainwashed,the second time he went looking for DD and DD tied him to a post with the cable in his billy club and ran off.The third time he was bloodlust.The third and fourth times he was wearing the symbiote.Once he lose,once he won.Another time Spider-Man was pissed at Murdock (can't remember what for) and Spider-Man owned him.The only other time I remember,they didn't finish the fight because a villain showed up. 3.Radar sense is better than Spider-Sense because it does more..but DD has shown to detect things before Spider-Man does.For instance once during a team up Nightcrawler showed up..but before he did DD says, "someone's coming" Spider-Man is like "really I don't feel anything".Spider-Man's sense goes of in the next panel as Nightcrawler appears.Another time DD and Spider-Man are on a rooftop and Spider-Man tells him there are six people coming and DD says "I know". 4.Spider-Man and DD are constantly shown to dodge superhuman opponents.DD has even been said to be impossible to sneak up on ever if you're a ghost.However sometimes their villains creatively get the drop on them and other times it's just plain bad writing.I mean Rhino has tagged Spider-Man..he can barely maneuver.Yes, DD is a normal man with peak human reflexes..how ever what's actually human doesn't apply in Marvel.Cap is supposed to be peak human too and he's kicking down steel doors and knocking out 100 tonners. 5.No..but Wolverine has claws and he's alot better of a fighter than the Lizard.Plus believe it or not he has superhuman speed.I know they would never let Wolvie kill DD but since he has consistently shown not to leave a fight with Wolverine without a scratch..I would assume he can do the same with the Lizard. 6.DD can use the environment against anyone..what's stopping him? I have seen him pull parking meters out of the ground to increase the power of his attacks,pick up sewer tops and launch them.DD doesn't need the environment but if he wanted to use it he definitely could. 7.Sure.... A.Roughhouse B.Dark Messiah C.Symbiote Spider-Man D.Adversary "
1. A) Sabretooth has superhuman speed? Really? I didn't know that. B) Oh right....jesus, did DD beat Venom too? Could you give me some info on that encounter? C) He lost when Spider-Man was in his right mind, though, right? D) Dunno who that is E) Ditto F) Okay, how that one go down too? How did DD beat him without breaking the part of his body he hit him with? Or how'd he tag him with his baton? Speed demon's a speedster, right, so he should have been able to avoid it. G) I just wanna know how DD hit him for this one. H) Kraven is slower than Lizard, isn't he? I) Same with Beast? 2. Sounds like they've got a pretty much draw record going on there, then. Still, all the times that Parker lose, he wasn't really himself, was he (not being snarky, just curious about everything)? 3. For the Nightcrawler example-was NC attacked Parker? Otherwise, the SS shouldn't have gone off, right? For the people on the roof example-sounds to me like they both knew it, and Parker just said it out loud. 4. It sounds logical for Parker to dodge superhuman opponents, because he is superhuman, but for DD if they have superhuman agility and it's a straight out find with no interference, no environmental shortcomings, it doesn't sound right to me. Cap has a bigass shield made of some crazy as hell metal, I think that's part of the reason he's knocked down 100 tonners (I assume you're referring to when he took down Hulk? Which was dumb anyways, but hey......). 5. Wolverine having superhuman speed sounds fishy to me. All handbooks, encyclopedias I have claim that he's a normal man (who regularly engages in extensive physical exercise). You got any notable times he's demonstrated such speed? I mean, he's fast, but I don't think he can move as fast as Lizard. Lizard also is a lot bigger, has significantly larger reach than Wolvie, is stronger, and has the tail which basically gives him another limb to fight with (except it's longer and could kill DD with one good shot).. 6. I don't see him pulling parking meters out of the ground when he's got this (goddamn huge) lizard guy rushing at him with his claws, giant alligator teeth/face, whatnot. I guess I shouldn't have said he can't use the environment, but rather I think it's pretty unlikely and it would be ineffective in my opinion. 7. A) Dunno who that is B) Ditto C) Wasn't himself, was he? Was he fighting to maximum capacity? Like you said, there was a time when Parker "curbstomped" DD and he wasn't even Symbiote then. D) Dunno who that is. (Every time I didn't know who the person is, it'd be awesome if you could tell me what they could do/extent of their powers and whatnot, how you fight was going or something like that. I know I'm asking a lot, but......no, scratch that, I am asking a lot and I don't care :P) "
Daredevill should not be able to go toe to toe w/ Sabretooth like that...And the Venom ecnounter I'm thinking of had that horrible art and he was wearing the armor...Do you have scans?
....And by saying "Sabretooth ran" you could be giving the impression like he was afraid of Daredevil, or even losing. Sabretooth was having a mental breakdown the entire time about his bloodlust, when he couldn't control it anymore he fled.
Daredevill should not be able to go toe to toe w/ Sabretooth like that...And the Venom ecnounter I'm thinking of had that horrible art and he was wearing the armor...Do you have scans?
....And by saying "Sabretooth ran" you could be giving the impression like he was afraid of Daredevil, or even losing. Sabretooth was having a mental breakdown the entire time about his bloodlust, when he couldn't control it anymore he fled. "
DD punched Sabretooth through a wall LOL..he was all over his ass like flies on dogsh#t. Pretty sure I got scans...I have to find them in my messy DD folder.
This is why I don't post scans.I have got so many to go through before I find what i'm looking for
" Daredevill should not be able to go toe to toe w/ Sabretooth like that...And the Venom ecnounter I'm thinking of had that horrible art and he was wearing the armor...Do you have scans?
....And by saying "Sabretooth ran" you could be giving the impression like he was afraid of Daredevil, or even losing. Sabretooth was having a mental breakdown the entire time about his bloodlust, when he couldn't control it anymore he fled. "
DD punched Sabretooth through a wall LOL..he was all over his ass like flies on dogsh#t. Pretty sure I got scans...I have to find them in my messy DD folder.
This is why I don't post scans.I have got so many to go through before I find what i'm looking for
"
.....And Sabretooth was back up, ready for more...Last I recall, he actually tackled him through the wall. Point being, the hits DD took BEFORE that should have caused him to bleed out fairly quickly...Unless of course, Murdock had a healing factor in that fight ;)
" Daredevill should not be able to go toe to toe w/ Sabretooth like that...And the Venom ecnounter I'm thinking of had that horrible art and he was wearing the armor...Do you have scans?
....And by saying "Sabretooth ran" you could be giving the impression like he was afraid of Daredevil, or even losing. Sabretooth was having a mental breakdown the entire time about his bloodlust, when he couldn't control it anymore he fled. "
DD punched Sabretooth through a wall LOL..he was all over his ass like flies on dogsh#t. Pretty sure I got scans...I have to find them in my messy DD folder.
This is why I don't post scans.I have got so many to go through before I find what i'm looking for
"
Holy crap Vance. That's a lot of scans.
I think I have as many scans, but they're not as organized.......
.....And Sabretooth was back up, ready for more...Last I recall, he actually tackled him through the wall. Point being, the hits DD took BEFORE that should have caused him to bleed out fairly quickly...Unless of course, Murdock had a healing factor in that fight ;) "
Murdock can heal.I don't know if he could at that point.I've been reading DD from the beginning.I just read where he first fights Bullseye.Not to many mentions of his ninja training yet.
Holy crap Vance. That's a lot of scans. I think I have as many scans, but they're not as organized....... "
I don't read a comic without taking scans.I have been doing this for 2 years now.I had to start over though because my laptop got stolen. "
That's awful. If for some reason my PC archives were destroyed, I doubt I would be able to replace them. And I doubt I could assemble numerous folders with scans of different characters. I have one folder with all my scans...Which makes it almost impossible to shape, since there are hundreds of scans in it already.
Holy crap Vance. That's a lot of scans. I think I have as many scans, but they're not as organized....... "
I don't read a comic without taking scans.I have been doing this for 2 years now.I had to start over though because my laptop got stolen. "
That's awful. If for some reason my PC archives were destroyed, I doubt I would be able to replace them. And I doubt I could assemble numerous folders with scans of different characters. I have one folder with all my scans...Which makes it almost impossible to shape, since there are hundreds of scans in it already. "
I'm glad I started over.Gave me a chance to get organized.I could almost never find the scans I wanted.It's a little easier now.Not as much as I would like but a little.Some characters don't have alot of showings.
OK, this argument has been going on for a while, both sides posting great points. Lizard is dangerous and DD can pull off some big BS moves sometimes. It would all come down to what book they were fighting in and also where they are fighting. If they're fighting in an alley or in the sewer Lizard has the advantage. More open space and room to maneuver is in DD's favor.
In a Daredevil book: DD wins 8 out of 10 times In a Spider-man or other Marvel book: DD wins 5 or 6 out of 10
"OK, this argument has been going on for a while, both sides posting great points. Lizard is dangerous and DD can pull off some big BS moves sometimes. It would all come down to what book they were fighting in and also where they are fighting. If they're fighting in an alley or in the sewer Lizard has the advantage. More open space and room to maneuver is in DD's favor. In a Daredevil book: DD wins 8 out of 10 times In a Spider-man or other Marvel book: DD wins 5 or 6 out of 10 DD wins. "
..........................You don't debate on what book its in, but instead if you take their showings and make them fight in a realistic setting....
" Also, for those saying DD wins...What does he do to knock out the Lizard???? "
He has taken down Sabretooth, Mr. Hyde, Tombstone, Spider-man, Wolverine, Deadpool, even Mephsito... All by out-thinking, out-fighting, and out-maneuvering them. I'm sure he could figure something out, whether it be using his environment to his advantage or hitting the right nerve points. It's not like DD hasn't had to get creative against a dangerous enemy before. Assuming that the fight takes place in a relatively open area (not the sewers), I would give the fight to Daredevil.
" Also, for those saying DD wins...What does he do to knock out the Lizard???? "
He has taken down Sabretooth, Mr. Hyde, Tombstone, Spider-man, Wolverine, Deadpool, even Mephsito... All by out-thinking, out-fighting, and out-maneuvering them. I'm sure he could figure something out, whether it be using his environment to his advantage or hitting the right nerve points. It's not like DD hasn't had to get creative against a dangerous enemy before. Assuming that the fight takes place in a relatively open area (not the sewers), I would give the fight to Daredevil. "
I previously discussed Sabretooth...Mr. Hyde was more-so the classic era, right? Tombstone, he hit him with a SLEDGEHAMMER. Utter PIS, since he has survived (unharmed) a building EXPLODING and collapsing on him, and Spider-Man's strongest hits. The fact is, once Lizard gets close, his far superior attributes will quickly overcome before Daredevil could even hope to contrive an effective plan. Also, he's never "defeated" Deadpool, and never KO'd WOlverine. The one solid win i'd give him was when wolverine FELL on a sword (a good fight too, btw) Also, Spider-Man was never going all out against him while in the right state of mind.
@Johnny_Nemesis said:
" @k4tzm4n said:
" Also, for those saying DD wins...What does he do to knock out the Lizard???? "
He hits him really hard "
LMFAO!!!! ...Spider-Man has to hit him with his full strength for every blow...His skin is simply too durable for a regular human.
" Also, for those saying DD wins...What does he do to knock out the Lizard???? "
I believe that the only way given by anyone here, is Vance's solution of pressure points with the use of his billy clubs, for which I'm still sceptical, since he shouldn't be able to do it fast enough, and swiftly enough for the Lizard to go down instantaneously, without him having even the slimmest chance of counter attacking. Other than that, I don't believe there is another way. Punching real hard, would more than likely result to DD injuring, or even breaking his fist (if we want to be realistic). The Lizard's skin is bulletproof.
" Also, for those saying DD wins...What does he do to knock out the Lizard???? "
I believe that the only way given by anyone here, is Vance's solution of pressure points with the use of his billy clubs, for which I'm still sceptical, since he shouldn't be able to do it fast enough, and swiftly enough for the Lizard to go down instantaneously, without him having even the slimmest chance of counter attacking. Other than that, I don't believe there is another way. Punching real hard, would more than likely result to DD injuring, or even breaking his fist (if we want to be realistic). The Lizard's skin is bulletproof. "
"OK, this argument has been going on for a while, both sides posting great points. Lizard is dangerous and DD can pull off some big BS moves sometimes. It would all come down to what book they were fighting in and also where they are fighting. If they're fighting in an alley or in the sewer Lizard has the advantage. More open space and room to maneuver is in DD's favor. In a Daredevil book: DD wins 8 out of 10 times In a Spider-man or other Marvel book: DD wins 5 or 6 out of 10 DD wins. "
..........................You don't debate on what book its in, but instead if you take their showings and make them fight in a realistic setting.... "
I've been in the battle threads before. It comes down to writing. These things could go down either way depending on what elements the WRITERS choose to take into consideration that day. Writers throw in all sorts of BS statements about certain characters randomly, and its important to filter out certain crappy elements of characters. So it does matter what book it is. DareDevil has intelligence. As long as he doesn't get cornered he should be able to use his agility to avoid attacks. Not having super strength is a big set back for DD, but as stated before he's beaten people with similar powers. Using the edge of the batons would generate a higher psi, which means the force of his strike would be multiplied considerably. Maybe not to the power that Spider-man's fist generate, but if hit in the right spot it doesn't matter. Rapid hits to the neck, nose and eyes in succession could hypothetically take down the Lizard.
Ability wise DD is outmatched severely, and if Lizard had human intelligence DD would be pretty screwed. But Lizard is just an attack dog that could be easily tricked.
"OK, this argument has been going on for a while, both sides posting great points. Lizard is dangerous and DD can pull off some big BS moves sometimes. It would all come down to what book they were fighting in and also where they are fighting. If they're fighting in an alley or in the sewer Lizard has the advantage. More open space and room to maneuver is in DD's favor. In a Daredevil book: DD wins 8 out of 10 times In a Spider-man or other Marvel book: DD wins 5 or 6 out of 10 DD wins. "
..........................You don't debate on what book its in, but instead if you take their showings and make them fight in a realistic setting.... "
I've been in the battle threads before. It comes down to writing. These things could go down either way depending on what elements the WRITERS choose to take into consideration that day. Writers throw in all sorts of BS statements about certain characters randomly, and its important to filter out certain crappy elements of characters. So it does matter what book it is. DareDevil has intelligence. As long as he doesn't get cornered he should be able to use his agility to avoid attacks. Not having super strength is a big set back for DD, but as stated before he's beaten people with similar powers. Using the edge of the batons would generate a higher psi, which means the force of his strike would be multiplied considerably. Maybe not to the power that Spider-man's fist generate, but if hit in the right spot it doesn't matter. Rapid hits to the neck, nose and eyes in succession could hypothetically take down the Lizard. Ability wise DD is outmatched severely, and if Lizard had human intelligence DD would be pretty screwed. But Lizard is just an attack dog that could be easily tricked. "
...He should be able to use his agility to avoid his attacks?...So...That's why the Lizard regularly hits Spider-Man, a character with superior speed? You really shouldnt pretend the battle is in a book..Because obviously DD wouldn't die, however in this match up, it's extremely likely Lizard would take his life IMO. Also, a match up like this one SHOULDNT happen in DD's book. For example, DD faced off against Omega Red in his own title. The Black Widow saved him with a standard rocket launcher...Omega Red has withstood missiles and blows from Colossus, but somehow that saved the day *eye rolls*. And while you reduce Lizard to just an "attack dog", he's still an EXTREMELY efficient attack dog that outclasses Daredevil in nearly every category, turning the tide greatly in his favor.
" Also, for those saying DD wins...What does he do to knock out the Lizard???? "
He has taken down Sabretooth, Mr. Hyde, Tombstone, Spider-man, Wolverine, Deadpool, even Mephsito... All by out-thinking, out-fighting, and out-maneuvering them. I'm sure he could figure something out, whether it be using his environment to his advantage or hitting the right nerve points. It's not like DD hasn't had to get creative against a dangerous enemy before. Assuming that the fight takes place in a relatively open area (not the sewers), I would give the fight to Daredevil. "
I previously discussed Sabretooth...Mr. Hyde was more-so the classic era, right? Tombstone, he hit him with a SLEDGEHAMMER. Utter PIS, since he has survived (unharmed) a building EXPLODING and collapsing on him, and Spider-Man's strongest hits. The fact is, once Lizard gets close, his far superior attributes will quickly overcome before Daredevil could even hope to contrive an effective plan. Also, he's never "defeated" Deadpool, and never KO'd WOlverine. The one solid win i'd give him was when wolverine FELL on a sword (a good fight too, btw) Also, Spider-Man was never going all out against him while in the right state of mind.
@Johnny_Nemesis said:
" @k4tzm4n said:
" Also, for those saying DD wins...What does he do to knock out the Lizard???? "
He hits him really hard "
LMFAO!!!! ...Spider-Man has to hit him with his full strength for every blow...His skin is simply too durable for a regular human. "
Yeah Spidey just hits him in random spots...DD can hit him really hard in his vulnerable spots...
....Vulernable spots...Right...Because Daredevil, with the strength of a human, can apply enough force to hurt Lizard's bullet proof skin....The only way I can see DD taking this is with an environmental win. Anything else would just briefly stun Lizard.
Name recent examples, aka 1985+. And this is of course, with his baton and not only harmed, but managed to KO. Becaue harming Lizard isn't much good if he can't bring him down. A bee could harm me, but not KO me.
"OK, this argument has been going on for a while, both sides posting great points. Lizard is dangerous and DD can pull off some big BS moves sometimes. It would all come down to what book they were fighting in and also where they are fighting. If they're fighting in an alley or in the sewer Lizard has the advantage. More open space and room to maneuver is in DD's favor. In a Daredevil book: DD wins 8 out of 10 times In a Spider-man or other Marvel book: DD wins 5 or 6 out of 10 DD wins. "
..........................You don't debate on what book its in, but instead if you take their showings and make them fight in a realistic setting.... "
I've been in the battle threads before. It comes down to writing. These things could go down either way depending on what elements the WRITERS choose to take into consideration that day. Writers throw in all sorts of BS statements about certain characters randomly, and its important to filter out certain crappy elements of characters. So it does matter what book it is. DareDevil has intelligence. As long as he doesn't get cornered he should be able to use his agility to avoid attacks. Not having super strength is a big set back for DD, but as stated before he's beaten people with similar powers. Using the edge of the batons would generate a higher psi, which means the force of his strike would be multiplied considerably. Maybe not to the power that Spider-man's fist generate, but if hit in the right spot it doesn't matter. Rapid hits to the neck, nose and eyes in succession could hypothetically take down the Lizard. Ability wise DD is outmatched severely, and if Lizard had human intelligence DD would be pretty screwed. But Lizard is just an attack dog that could be easily tricked. "
...He should be able to use his agility to avoid his attacks?...So...That's why the Lizard regularly hits Spider-Man, a character with superior speed? You really shouldnt pretend the battle is in a book..Because obviously DD wouldn't die, however in this match up, it's extremely likely Lizard would take his life IMO. Also, a match up like this one SHOULDNT happen in DD's book. For example, DD faced off against Omega Red in his own title. The Black Widow saved him with a standard rocket launcher...Omega Red has withstood missiles and blows from Colossus, but somehow that saved the day *eye rolls*. And while you reduce Lizard to just an "attack dog", he's still an EXTREMELY efficient attack dog that outclasses Daredevil in nearly every category, turning the tide greatly in his favor. "
Right..because DD has only hit Spider-Man like once....
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