Daredevil (Netflix) vs Batman (BvS)

Cox Daredevil was crushed by Kingpin. BvS Batman took out numerous armed men who KNEW he was coming. The men had precon intel and still were picked apart by a Rusty Batman. DD usually has problems with large groups of men. Bats could pull this off. If we consider him dodging Doomsday eye laser beam an actual feat he wins low diffuclty.

@ultimate_knight: To put it simply villain decay is when a villain shows up as a menacing, unstoppable threat and with the more appearances they make, the less competent and threatening they get. You assume things I don't mean but @allstarsuperman was right in his analysis of how those mercenaries in BvS outrank Hand ninjas.

Where is it in the thread? I am really sorry, but I am not willing to scroll through 7 pages to look for the post.

For the record, I am not saying Daredevil wins, I just think he can put up a good fight and has a very low chance at getting a win compared to the Bat. That suit and gear advantage is going to be tough to go through...I just think you are giving Mr. Murdock less credit than usual.

Daredevil

Batman wins 7/10. Matt puts up one hell of a fight though.

@ready_4_madness: Agreed, just thought you might have been giving Daredevil the win in your original post.

@ultimate_knight: If you meant about villain decay it is a trope I believe was coined by tvtropes.org but has been around without a proper name since the very concept of the modern day villain. If you meant @allstarsuperman's post about how the mercenaries outrank Hand Ninja's (earlier I made the mistake of crediting Igh0stI for it), I'll quote it below:

batfleck

@slade_wilson_80: Allstarsuperman was missing all kinds of context in that qoute.

@dstreet45: Say dat 2 my face bro

@allstarsuperman: OK. I'll get back to you when I get on my laptop.

@dstreet45: Not that I was avoiding responding to your post but... Yep, apart from being out of the country for a few days I pretty much was. I've made an attempt at a response but from the way you respond in the quote of my previous post without applying italics or bolding of any sort (though responding in a quote is annoying in itself when it is that big) to the growing annoyance I have with anyone that legitimately thinks Daredevil would do anything but add a 1 to Batfleck's body count (not that your opinion is in any way invalid or less valid than mine) it's just plain exhausting is all I'm saying.

I'll stop arguing semantics and concede the point that the robber's fodder status doesn't take away from the force of Matthew's punch but in reviewing that punch I realise... The robber doesn't even get punched across the full length of the table that we don't even properly know the length of. If you would be so kind as to play the footage back equal to or slower than 0.5x speed you can clearly see that the robber is knocked back by the force of Matt's punch, goes over and falls onto the table and is carried through to the other side by the after effects of landing and the effect of twisting during that one cut. We never even truly know how far he is directly knocked back due to that shoddy cut either. All in all that punch not only justifies my discounting of Daredevil's speed due to how slow he has to punch just to exert moderate force but his strength as far as the evidence that was given isn't as impressive as first thought (with my first thought not really being that much either). If Daredevil conserves that much speed to deliver that weak (relative to the power of DCEU Batman's punches) a punch to that disorientated robber in what was practically a free shot he sure as hell isn't doing much more than scratching the armour of Batman given a clean, free shot at Batman which he certainly would not ever get. Again, no Daredevil isn't defeating Batman by way of punching.

I made the point of Daredevil having his hand against the wall aiding that kick because of how unlikely it is that the same would ever happen in a fight with Batman, or that it would have the same effect. The kick is great and all but doesn't give evidence of how hard Daredevil can kick due to him being aided by having his hand on the wall. The centre of the chest thing was to illustrate how incompetent his attacker was for letting him attack him that close to his centre of mass and how that wouldn't happen against Batman. Are they badly told? Yes, but my points are still valid given full reasoning. Again, Daredevil is not kicking Batman. Also, being off balance is pretty self explanatory dude but to put the effects of being off balance simply you'd have a rapidly changing unstable centre of gravity, would be disorientated, would be susceptible to losing balance easily and will struggle even more than usual when knocked over. That is put simply off the top of my head though, you should probably just look it up. The second kick is done to a dude trying to regain his balance and he doesn't even fully get kicked into the air too, he gets knocked into the car and unconsciously clambers onto it as he falls.

Nobu obviously weighs less than Batfleck (don't even try that) and therefore would take more force to launch with his billy club. His billy club would most likely either have no effect on Batman's tough armour and would be discarded or would get taken from him as the warehouse scene shows Batman's proficiency for disarming people. As for how that translates from the mercenaries to Daredevil @allstarsuperman perfectly encapsulates why they outrank Hand ninjas and regardless of skill a knife attack in close quarters with the force of a grown man is a knife attack in close quarters with the force of a grown man. Batman excellently disarms any weapon used against him (he even blocks two knives coming at him at once from opposite sides) and I have no doubt a Daredevil with little experience using that club (I mean come on, just off the memory of watching Daredevil two and one year ago respectively both Kingpin and The Punisher use it against him, the latter straight taking it from him) would inflict any damage upon him. The second throw is done using the dudes momentum which, once again, takes away from the throw itself and simply wouldn't happen to Batman. There is also another move used to launch him into the air ever fully shown meaning that this isn't just a throw being executed by Daredevil and that is a beaten and bloody Frank Castle just headbutted and held up straight by Daredevil anyway. Nothing overly impressive about that. No Daredevil does not throw Batman.

When Batman is tagged by the mercenaries it is either because he is busy finishing off one or through no fault of his own. I've already gone over this in another post but to put it simply he is tagged once because of his cape and excellently fends the mercenaries off when they do take him down unlike Daredevil when he has to defend himself on the ground. They also tag him because they are well co-ordinated and attack in packs instead of the standard one at a time routine most hordes usually try.

Are you really going to tell me that Batman isn't fatigued from fighting and winning against Superman. Not only does he tank his punches when the kryptonite used against Superman wears off, he also survives getting flung back by Superman, getting taken directly through a building wall by Superman, getting thrown from the sky and crashing through the Bat signal by Superman, falls through the floor of a building and lands on his feet (which is still damaging despite landing of Superman), is sent hurtling through the wall of the same building, is driven through the floor of that building directly into the ground by Superman and is sent through two walls of the building consecutively. He then hammer throws Superman through four stone pillars. Do not tell me that doing all that on top of fighting and winning against Superman then immediately flying the Batplane to the warehouse does not give him heavy fatigue, what is even more impressive is the way he barely visibly shows that fatigue in his warehouse fight scene. Batman does all the things he does in the warehouse heavily fatigued.

While it still stands that Daredevil doesn't kick, punch or throw Batman you have used clips that show him doing those things assisted by various other factors that take away from the moves themselves. If these are the extremes of his ability to do those three moves even disregarding the help those extra things aiding the moves then they are relatively unimpressive compared to DCEU Batman in those same categories. You also chose categories that without a doubt favour DCEU Batman instead of playing to Daredevil's strengths and seeing how he could win from those angles. Daredevil sacrifices a lot of speed to put power into his punches which discounts his speed giving him the edge over Batman as (aside from his punching speed being not fast enough to make an actual difference) he would do minimal effect punching at high speeds and that power put into his punch is practically null when put up against the punching power of The Batman. The first kick given as reason to put Daredevil over Batman is situational as Daredevil uses the wall to put more power and momentum into his kick, the assailant Daredevil kicks is also staggering back covering his eye down the stairs before he is sent back so he is disorientated and unbalanced which both intensify the effects of the kick. The second kick not only requires Daredevil perform an elaborate move that would surely get countered against somebody who knows what they are doing but the assailant doesn't even get properly launched into the air, the forced perspective is probably at fault for you picking that kick to give as evidence though. Both are inferior to DCEU Batman's kicks however (not even going to bring the Superman fight into this), while on the ground he not only takes out two assailants with the same leg but uses two different parts of his leg showing extra skill. He also uses his feet to kick a grown man dead still hanging upside down on a rope almost 90 degrees and into the air from his head and launches the dude off that same rope that held him up for so long. The first throw Daredevil makes (other than being aided by the technique used which uses momentum) is a two step move, the latter of which isn't even shown so the result of the guy getting launched into the air isn't even directly because of the throw. Not even going into how ridiculous you'd have to be to think Batman would ever end up in that same situation or that he wouldn't have disarmed the billy club the second throw is also done to somebody who weighs considerably less than Batman. Compared to Batman hammer throwing Superman through stone pillars, a dude through a wall, a dude fully up into the air and back down to the ground using one arm, a heavy crate across a room from fully behind him over his head using his grapple gun and a dude towards him using the grapple gun with ease in the same fight without exerting himself at all that billy club throw is largely inferior.

There is also never a time when Batman is fazed by a hit from one of the mercenaries unless you mean him wisely covering the face of his cowl while he was getting shot at, him immediately defending himself when grounded by one dragging his cape near perfectly or him getting stabbed near his shoulder and immediately finishing off his foes never to show any hint of ever taking a knife to the shoulder again. The idea of Daredevil winning is beyond ludicrous by now, I would give him a 1/10 chance of winning just because (thinking of a reason has legitimately delayed the posting of this post by threefourfive sixseveneight nine minutes) Anything is possible? No, maybe his flips? Maybe he'll have the high ground? tbh I just can't see anything but a 0/10 for Daredevil.

@slade_wilson_80:

Thank you for showing it.

@allstarsuperman said:

Absolutely not. Hand ninjas do a flip, Mercenaries shoot them in the face. It's not even close. Mercenaries actually had good marksmenship feats, a single one was able to gun down 3 opposing soldiers, and one mercenary managed to shoot the grapple gun out of Batmans hand. While the Hand ninjas were actually completely awful marksmen. It took like 9 ninjas all firing off arrows to kill 2 policemen, the Ninjas hand the high ground, and they still missed like twenty arrows before finally making there shots.

And in H2H? Forget about it. A couple of the Mercenaries were taking superhuman punches from Batman and getting up for more. While a single hand ninja got thrown out of a window by a hospital nurse. Seriously. It's not even close. You failed this comparison.

Well...guns are obviously better weapons in a lot of ways than swords and bows and arrows. All this tells me is that the Mercenaries are more likely to win in a ranged fight than the Hand Ninjas.

A hand ninja getting thrown off by a nurse only happened once from what I recall. Look at the other showings that blow that out of the water. One soloing two guards and one giving Daredevil a good fight (even though he was in a poisoned state) but got close to killing him (which is what makes the feat impressive in my point of view). I guess I would say one hand ninja is comparable to a poisoned Matt Murdock in melee combat (we can agree that a poisoned Matt Murdock is pretty impressive even for fodder standards right?) and that they are pretty good with pure stealth with their showings of being sneaky to Daredevil....

Even if there were only two feats to choose from that one episode (Getting thrown off by a nurse or soloing two guards?) would you consider getting thrown off a window by a nurse as more credible to a hand ninja than soloing two guards?

Superhuman punches? As in the comic scan of Batman shattering a brick no problem proves his strikes are superhuman? I would say yes, he is capable of punching and dealing with that kind of damage, but rarely in combat.

From what I remember, Batman performed that punch while in the Batcave and was patched up. He had time to properly adjust his fist to be more effective and was at normal conditions.

In combat, he does not have time. He has to be quick, sometimes it is pure instinct that takes over (why did Batman continuously punch the guy that tried to tackle him instead of using the time to adjust his fist for a potential one shot or ground pound like in the Arkham Games? I am pretty sure most of us will agree that the choreography took many notes from the Arkham Games right?). Not only that, but he continuously gets more exhausted as the fight drags on with no breaks. It did not seem obvious Batman was getting tired, but he eventually got tagged from a slow push kick because of that I believe.

Daredevil has shown on a few occasions of seemingly striking with superhuman force from Season two. I believe @dstreet45 has already shown some examples before. Daredevil has taken some hits from Nobu in Season two, who I believe was stated to be superhuman so I guess I would put his physicals in league with Batman's.

I believe Daredevil is capable of clearing the Warehouse Scene...if there was more cover...and darkness. Batman's gear aided him on that situation, and it should greatly aid him with his fight against Daredevil (especially the suit and the grappling gun).

It's like you ignored them hitting (an unprepared) Daredevil with an arrow or forcing him to actually block, catch, or deflect their arrows/shurikens on multiple occasions from a distance. Not to mention they almost immediately hit that first cop when they started firing and hit the other cop when he wasn't protected by the roof of the car. Most of the shots could be seen as suppressing fire to prevent the cop from shooting back.

I might as well say that Black Widow is a terrible marksman because she never hit any of those mercenaries in the Highway fight back in Captain America Winter Soldier. Or Winter Soldier is a terrible marksman for not hitting Widow while she was hiding behind that truck in the same scene.

Keep in mind no one is saying that the ninjas are as good as Deadshot or Bullseye or even the two I mentioned in the previous paragraph. But to say they are terrible marksmen because of one scene alone?

You mean when Claire pushed one out a window while he was still trying to get into the hospital? The guy barely had one leg through the window how does Claire taking advantage of that show that the ninjas suck in H2H?

I mean seriously guess what happened when she actually fought one straight up.

The ninja almost immediately disarms her with one sword stroke and hits her twice before throwing her out the window. She pretty much got fodderized.

@ultimate_knight:I know that your points are valid that it's only range @allstarsuperman is talking about but I gotta say something too. Never once does the Hand ever work together cohesively in the way the mercenaries do against Batman, they are better equipped, have intel on Batman, are well organised, use proven tactical methods and have a great starting positions for an entry had Batman been anybody but Batman and show more resilience in battle. Defeating two featless guards or any number of featless cops doesn't make up for the fact that a hand ninja is... literally thrown out of a window by Claire Temple, gets grounded for an extended period of time (and I can't even confirm that he even got back up) by a hospital bed frame coming kicked towards him, one struggles to open a window they get thrown out of for a while and doesn't even see or react to a yelling Claire charging at him on that window ledge; they are generally just disposable. Put Batman in that scenario and those hospital walls would be covered with the blood of Hand Ninja, no doubt about it that the mercenaries trump the hand ninjas even though their rapid villain decay is telling.

Not even mentioning the effort it took to hammer throw Superman through stone pillars DCEU Batman strikes a dude's head in a standing position with so much force that it forces it down to the ground in an invert quicker than that of the grappling hook pulling another dude up by the legs and suspending him in the air earlier in the battle, he also throws a mercenary through a wall, knocks several people out with single punches to the head, takes out two assailants with the same leg, pulls a crate heavy enough to launch a man into the air and kill him upon impact fully clean up over his head and throws it using his grappling gun, pulls a dude straight across a room using that grapple gun, viciously elbows that same dude so hard he crashes to the floor sliding and falling through the initial hole Batman created, kicks the dude hanging dead still upside down at an angle expertly towards the dude with a grenade in his hands breaking the hold of whatever was holding him up for so long had on him, lifts a dude all the way up into the air and sends him crashing to the floor with one arm, viciously uppercuts a dude taking him out of the fight, cuts a dude's legs out from under him with a single punch to a single leg sending him down head first and did I mention that the first dude's head went clean through the floor after just a single punch from Batman? All while having heavy fatigue from just fighting Superman and all in one fluid and fast combat sequence? Leagues and realms can't even describe how much stronger DCEU Batman is in comparison to Daredevil.

Batman never even showed any fatigue (though it would have been perfectly justified considering he had jumped in the Batplane immediately after getting knocked about by Superman) and only ever gets tagged if he is too busy finishing off an opponent (which he can choose to due due to his much tougher armour and would want to do because of how resilient he instantly realises his assailants are) or through no fault of his own (as in when he gets push kicked in his centre of mass into a cape drag which is not only unavoidable but shows the cohesive team work the mercenaries have going on) which he excellently defended and fends off quickly (unlike Daredevil who constantly fails to defend himself until PIS is induced). Batman getting tagged shouldn't count against him in any way as it shows him recognising that he has to properly put down his opponents (that he saw were very resilient) instead of momentarily taking them out of the fight, his ability to defend himself when knocked down, his ability to defend himself from multiple assailants when grounded and his speed and defensive capabilities to not ever be tagged outside of the two reasons given when fighting in close quarters with multiple armed assailants attacking at the same time.

More cover and more darkness are not an option for Daredevil, same scenario means same scenario and as he would have no Alfred or explosives to find the best place to begin attacking or break through the floor jump up and he would immediately end up riddled with bullets, he wouldn't even figuratively make it through the door.

So let's gift him the gift of a grappling gun that lasts for one use and that one explosive Bruce uses to break through the floor (I assume it is an explosive he uses but in any case we get a DCEU/MCU crossover before Daredevil ever makes it through the floor and to where Batman is perched). He'd still end up dead as he would be a sitting duck if he tried the only two options he had; performing an arial takedown (which he could do to as many people as he likes but he would never clear all of the gunmen scattered across the room before he received the most expensive funeral in history courtesy of the entirety of Bruce Wayne's fortune I'd give him if he died) or using his billy club that (ignoring the fact he'd never be able to get it to bounce back to him off everybody's head and the ground or the fact he would be a sitting duck after he got eventually found out) he wouldn't even be able to even get everybody with from his vantage point, not to mention the mindf*ck him him throwing the billy club into shadow and it returning back to him perfectly multiple times would be.

So let us give him the anti gun explosives used by Batman to disable those guns and respawn invulnerability for him to get into a hypothetical situation where he doesn't get immediately shot at once hitting the ground. He still ends up pumped full of led, not only would he have to traverse an entire warehouse floor full of knife wielding assailants coming at him in hordes all at once but he would have to traverse the four corners of that warehouse with competent gunmen scattered all over it and then somehow walk through the door with Martha in it (with a flamethrower and an idontevenknowwhatkindofgunthatis gun pointed at the entrance) and defeat discount KGBeast. No way that it how that goes down.

Let's make it Daredevil's lucky day and have everyone forget their guns in their pink duffel bags. He still loses because the hordes of enemies coming at him with knives are too well versed to not inflict a death by a thousand cuts, I don't see him getting past the grenade bait either.

Even going so far as to remove knives and that one grenade out of the equation does Daredevil ever stand a chance, with his speed being the onl thing stopping the more likely conclsion of Daredevil getting mobbed by the sheer number of enemies that would be joining the original horde of four without their guns or knives justifying their ranged approach. They would absolutely maul him with Daredevil unable to evade them once properly tagged (since he doesn't have the strength to hold up a horde push and his billy club that would still be useless almost definitely being either dropped or taken off him once the numbers piled on).

There is literally nothing I can take away after the knives and guns besides the competence of the mercenaries and the number of them now, if Daredevil has to drop in the same spot Batman does (which is the only way he gets that far into the fight) he would get absolutely finished even with the guns knives and singular grenade taken away, temporary Alfred, frantic dive to cover the mercenaries make, communication link and explosives given to him and the respawn invulnerability he'd get to evade his initial attackers he would get when he dropped. Daredevil needs multiple lets to stand a chance in the warehouse scene whereas place Batman in any scene of Daredevil's and he would greatly outperform Daredevil. Seriously go watch that warehouse scene, honestly tell me Daredevil get's through that and tell me how he would get through that scene.

Also, the last picture you show isn't even for the DCEU Batman, certainly not in the suit this scenario has him wearing.

Daredevil would use a variety of flips to nicely dodge Batman's blows, then he'd get winded and stabbed through the heart with a kryptonite spear. Netflix's Daredevil is a grounded, realistic character. Batflec has left reality and lost its believability.

@slade_wilson_80: Dang, what a long post!

Never once does the Hand ever work together cohesively in the way the mercenaries do against Batman, they are better equipped, have intel on Batman, are well organised, use proven tactical methods and have a great starting positions for an entry had Batman been anybody but Batman and show more resilience in battle.

I guess I would have to agree. Mercenaries seem to have better teamwork from what I remembered, but I would not call the Hand Ninjas completely void of working together, won't you agree? I remember a Hand Ninja figuring out that their swords allowed Daredevil to see them for awhile. He then told his fellow ninjas to drop it and use their bare hands to beat Daredevil.

Defeating two featless guards or any number of featless cops doesn't make up for the fact that a hand ninja is... literally thrown out of a window by Claire Temple, gets grounded for an extended period of time (and I can't even confirm that he even got back up) by a hospital bed frame coming kicked towards him, one struggles to open a window they get thrown out of for a while and doesn't even see or react to a yelling Claire charging at him on that window ledge; they are generally just disposable. Put Batman in that scenario and those hospital walls would be covered with the blood of Hand Ninja, no doubt about it that the mercenaries trump the hand ninjas even though their rapid villain decay is telling.

Dang. Makes me think you can confidently take on a Hand Ninja and survive with no scratches. Are you going to disregard the other more impressive feats Hand Ninjas did like a single hand ninja almost killing Daredevil? I think @dstreet45 can show better showings than the ones you mentioned or convince you that Hand Ninjas are not as bad as you make them up to be.

I am not trying to make you think Hand Ninjas are better than the Mercenaries, I am just trying to make you think that they are more formidable than you make them out to be.

Not even mentioning the effort it took to hammer throw Superman through stone pillars

Batman had a not-so-standard suit during that time from what I can recall sir/ma'am.

DCEU Batman strikes a dude's head in a standing position with so much force that it forces it down to the ground in an invert quicker than that of the grappling hook pulling another dude up by the legs and suspending him in the air earlier in the battle

You mean that right hook he did to the guy who had a knife on his leg? I would say he had enough time to perform the strike in a proper manner. No one was around to bother him when he did that powerful right hook and the guy who took the punch was gravely injured with the knife, so he could not move or react accordingly.

About the grappling hook, Batman was not visible to the guy he grappling gunned at the leg from above. Nothing about being fast as far as I can tell. There was a guy who saw his mercenary buddy getting hanged by Batman's grappling gun. He got distracted by the guy's misery, which gave Batman ample time to break his arm and shoot to force the mercenaries to cover.

he also throws a mercenary through a wall

At the very last part of the Warehouse fight? One could argue that the Warehouse was worn out wood and was old. I mean, the Warehouse looked pretty out of shape would you agree?

knocks several people out with single punches to the head

It staggers the mercenaries, sure, during combat, but Daredevil has better pain tolerance and damage soak (fighting Nobu in first Season, infamous Hallway fight in first Season when he had some injuries) than the thugs, which would prevent Daredevil from getting staggered from one of Batman's strikes which Batman might use to open up with his best punches.

Plus, Daredevil has pretty good armor (not as good as Batman's I believe, but should be good enough to take the brunt of most of Batman's blunt force punches).

takes out two assailants with the same leg

When did this happen? Can you tell or show me please?

pulls a crate heavy enough to launch a man into the air and kill him upon impact fully clean up over his head and throws it using his grappling gun

You think it killed him? There was blood sure, and his head was still intact but...okay never mind.

I can say that the grappling gun assisted Batman a little since, you know, the grappling gun pulls Batman to places he wants, so I would say that the grappling gun did some pulling, but instead of pulling Batman, it helped Batman pull the crate. There was some "whirring" or "zipping" sound that I heard, which I believe was the grappling gun doing its part pulling the crate to assist Batman.

Do not get me wrong, it is pretty impressive, and Daredevil is out if he gets a crate like that thrown to his head by Batman and his grappling gun, I am just saying that Batman had some assistance doing that feat.

It does not degrade the fact that Batman is physically superior than Matt in my eyes.

pulls a dude straight across a room using that grapple gun

Again, grappling gun doing some assistance to Batman. Plus, Daredevil already did a similar move to Nobu on the final fight from Season 2. I am not saying it is better than Batman's feat of pulling a guy across a room with a grappling gun, I am just saying it is comparable.

viciously elbows that same dude so hard he crashes to the floor sliding and falling through the initial hole Batman created

Yes, one of Batman's powerful strikes. I would say he had time to properly adjust his strike, he knew the mercenary was going to come his way, and no one was disturbing him doing a pretty cool strike.

kicks the dude hanging dead still upside down at an angle expertly towards the dude with a grenade in his hands breaking the hold of whatever was holding him up for so long had on him

Dead? Well yes, he did die, but I do not think a grappling hook piercing through your leg is going to kill you.

Again, time to properly adjust his strike, no one was disturbing him, and so on.

lifts a dude all the way up into the air and sends him crashing to the floor with one arm

Okay. Pretty good for Batman. Nothing much to say.

viciously uppercuts a dude taking him out of the fight

The curly haired white guy who had a jacket with a hoody? That was the second to the last guy Batman took out in the fight, so he was not really one shotted from that quick uppercut.

cuts a dude's legs out from under him with a single punch to a single leg sending him down head first

Is this the time when Batman made a guy stab himself on the leg and was right hooked? Impressive I would say, but I do not think his legs were completely sliced out, just got pierced. I already made my point on the right hook from above....

and did I mention that the first dude's head went clean through the floor after just a single punch from Batman?

The infamous right hook to the knifed guy? His head did not go through the floor. It hurt though...

All while having heavy fatigue from just fighting Superman and all in one fluid and fast combat sequence? Leagues and realms can't even describe how much stronger DCEU Batman is in comparison to Daredevil.

And I definitely agree that Batman is physically superior than Daredevil, but I do not believe the gap is too wide and is something Daredevil cannot overcome. He was tired sure, but not much major injuries from what I know. Daredevil and his hallway fight from Season one, he had injuries during that fight, right @dstreet45? Then there was Daredevil fighting some armed policemen from Season one after falling several feet through some wood, when he captured that Russian person.

Batman never even showed any fatigue (though it would have been perfectly justified considering he had jumped in the Batplane immediately after getting knocked about by Superman)

Yup. I would say that. He got some chill time, sitting in the Batplane and the heavy duty armor took the brunt of the hits for Batman, and I am pretty sure Superman was holding back.

You also said Batman had "heavy fatigue from just fighting Superman", and then say "never even showed fatigue." What is it really?

only ever gets tagged if he is too busy finishing off an opponent (which he can choose to due due to his much tougher armour and would want to do because of how resilient he instantly realises his assailants are)

After that arm twist Batman did to that one mercenary, he had like 1-2 seconds to get back to fighting stance, which should be enough, but he was attacked by a slow push kick, so I I would say that yes, he saw it coming, but he was too tired to move out.

or through no fault of his own (as in when he gets push kicked in his centre of mass into a cape drag which is not only unavoidable but shows the cohesive team work the mercenaries have going on)

Center of mass is the head? That was where Batman got push kicked. Yes, good teamwork for the mercenaries, but it does not change the fact that Batman was still hit by that one kick that caused a "chain combo" for the mercenaries, and that combo would have been prevented if Batman was able to counter or evade the push kick.

which he excellently defended and fends off quickly (unlike Daredevil who constantly fails to defend himself until PIS is induced).

I would agree Batman did good defending himself while in a vulnerable position, but saying Daredevil is bad at constantly defending himself from attacks is just pretty bad. Are you basing most of your knowledge on Daredevil from the Hallway fight from Season one alone? Season one alone?

Daredevil had injuries from his first hallway fight, as already stated, and Daredevil has improved in skill and gear in Season two. Plus, hallway fights, as good as Netflix makes them seem to be, does not really give Daredevil enough room to fight properly, so I would say they are pretty impressive. Batman had the luxury of fighting guys in a open area, allowing for more maneuverability.

Batman getting tagged shouldn't count against him in any way as it shows him recognising that he has to properly put down his opponents (that he saw were very resilient) instead of momentarily taking them out of the fight, his ability to defend himself when knocked down, his ability to defend himself from multiple assailants when grounded and his speed and defensive capabilities to not ever be tagged outside of the two reasons given when fighting in close quarters with multiple armed assailants attacking at the same time.

Why does Daredevil getting tagged being used against him by you? I admit, Batman defending himself against two guys while lying on the ground was pretty good and not something I have seen Daredevil done yet to my knowledge, but I do not believe that showing alone should prove Batman wins the fight.

Batman is not untouchable. I am not saying Daredevil is untouchable as well mind you. Just because he got tagged less than Matt does not mean Matt cannot tag Batman. After all, Daredevil is more skilled and is faster than the mercenaries.

More cover and more darkness are not an option for Daredevil, same scenario means same scenario and as he would have no Alfred or explosives to find the best place to begin attacking or break through the floor jump up and he would immediately end up riddled with bullets, he wouldn't even figuratively make it through the door.

Hmm...I have to agree. Daredevil cannot clear because there were no other entrances, no cover, and no darkness and that is it I believe. I would say he needs darkness, cover, and an entry point that he can access, but not something the mercenaries can and will expect. No explosives? Alright, that is a problem. No Alfred? With Daredevil's senses, he can identify and count the mercenaries as precisely as Batman did with Alfred.

So let's gift him the gift of a grappling gun that lasts for one use and that one explosive Bruce uses to break through the floor (I assume it is an explosive he uses but in any case we get a DCEU/MCU crossover before Daredevil ever makes it through the floor and to where Batman is perched). He'd still end up dead as he would be a sitting duck if he tried the only two options he had; performing an arial takedown (which he could do to as many people as he likes but he would never clear all of the gunmen scattered across the room before he received the most expensive funeral in history courtesy of the entirety of Bruce Wayne's fortune I'd give him if he died) or using his billy club that (ignoring the fact he'd never be able to get it to bounce back to him off everybody's head and the ground or the fact he would be a sitting duck after he got eventually found out) he wouldn't even be able to even get everybody with from his vantage point, not to mention the mindf*ck him him throwing the billy club into shadow and it returning back to him perfectly multiple times would be.

So let us give him the anti gun explosives used by Batman to disable those guns and respawn invulnerability for him to get into a hypothetical situation where he doesn't get immediately shot at once hitting the ground. He still ends up pumped full of led, not only would he have to traverse an entire warehouse floor full of knife wielding assailants coming at him in hordes all at once but he would have to traverse the four corners of that warehouse with competent gunmen scattered all over it and then somehow walk through the door with Martha in it (with a flamethrower and an idontevenknowwhatkindofgunthatis gun pointed at the entrance) and defeat discount KGBeast. No way that it how that goes down.

Let's make it Daredevil's lucky day and have everyone forget their guns in their pink duffel bags. He still loses because the hordes of enemies coming at him with knives are too well versed to not inflict a death by a thousand cuts, I don't see him getting past the grenade bait either.

Even going so far as to remove knives and that one grenade out of the equation does Daredevil ever stand a chance, with his speed being the onl thing stopping the more likely conclsion of Daredevil getting mobbed by the sheer number of enemies that would be joining the original horde of four without their guns or knives justifying their ranged approach. They would absolutely maul him with Daredevil unable to evade them once properly tagged (since he doesn't have the strength to hold up a horde push and his billy club that would still be useless almost definitely being either dropped or taken off him once the numbers piled on).

There is literally nothing I can take away after the knives and guns besides the competence of the mercenaries and the number of them now, if Daredevil has to drop in the same spot Batman does (which is the only way he gets that far into the fight) he would get absolutely finished even with the guns knives and singular grenade taken away, temporary Alfred, frantic dive to cover the mercenaries make, communication link and explosives given to him and the respawn invulnerability he'd get to evade his initial attackers he would get when he dropped. Daredevil needs multiple lets to stand a chance in the warehouse scene whereas place Batman in any scene of Daredevil's and he would greatly outperform Daredevil. Seriously go watch that warehouse scene, honestly tell me Daredevil get's through that and tell me how he would get through that scene.

I am not saying Daredevil can clear the Warehouse like Batman did. I agree Daredevil is toast under normal conditions. But based on your most generous conditions for Matt, I believe he can clear, or at the very least take out many guys before going down.

His billy club have managed to draw blood from its strikes, so it should hurt.

He has already fought as many guys as Batman did...but in a more claustrophobic area. I would say it is comparable, but not any better than Batman did since the mercenaries were better trained and better coordinated.

I would like to restate that I believe Batman wins more often than not, but I believe Daredevil can give a good fight and has a low chance to snag a win.

Also, the last picture you show isn't even for the DCEU Batman, certainly not in the suit this scenario has him wearing.

I know. It was just a fine piece of artwork I felt like posting. Is this any better?

bump

Batman for a solid majority. Physically superior + comparable skill + Daredevil has no way of hurting him + massive height and weight advantage

Hitting him at the jaw with his limbs or billy clubs? Daredevil having better striking power and skill of how to properly hit someone and where in the body than the mercenaries?

Batman gets my vote.

@ultimate_knight: Batman can dodge that. If he moved fast enough out of Doomsday's way twice, then I'm sure he can react to Daredevil's billy clubs. Batman's cowl is reinforced with titanium. He tanked bullets to the head from inches away and all it did to him was make him grunt. I'm pretty sure Daredevil doesn't punch harder than a bullet considering that he's used plenty of punches to take out random thugs. However Batman can one-shot him. One of his casual punches against Superman packed 1500lbs of force behind it. He can just punch Daredevil like he did to that guy in the warehouse where his head got embedded into the floor and knock Daredevil out.

Bruce. But it'll be close.

Bats due to gear and physicality.

Batman had the aid of his grappling gun for that. Are you proposing that Batman will shoot his grappling gun every time Daredevil tries to land a hit to dodge it?

If Batman is so fast, why did he get tagged by that mercenary who kicked his face? When Batman engaged those four mercenaries in pure hand to hand combat, he was getting fairly tagged by the knives (though it did not affect him thanks to his suit). Without the armor to assist him, Batman would probably be with his parents by now (which should make him pretty happy).

Daredevil usually got tagged in those Hallway fights. It should be understandable because the hallways are pretty tight spaced (unlike the warehouse). Also, in the first hallway fight, Daredevil was suffering from internal injuries. In the second one, In the second season's hallway/stairwell fight, Daredevil was suffering from a concussion from The Punisher's bullet to his helmet.

Batman felt some of the mercenaries' strikes, and Daredevil can hit harder and better than them no doubt.

Batman's exposed jaw is his weak point. If Daredevil can draw blood with his billy clubs based on his fight with Mr. Fisk, then a billy club hit from Mr. Murdock should really hurt. I admit, hitting Batman at his armored body suit may not do much damage, but it should stagger Batman, giving Daredevil an opening to use his more powerful strikes to land a solid hit on his jaw.

Example 1 and Example 2.

Another testament to The Attorney's striking power, he was able to make Mr. Fisk draw blood with this final strike (which was his fist) during that fight.

It also took Batman plenty of hits to take down those four mercenaries in pure melee combat.

Do not also forget...Daredevil's armor offers some pretty solid protection, even though it is not as good as Batman's armor.

He shrugged off an assault rifle bullet to the chest, strikes from Nobu after supposedly getting a slight boost in physical stats, and took some hits at the head with his own billy club by Mr. Fisk, and was still good to go.

I will agree that Batman's striking power is better, but The Devil of Hell's Kitchen is by no means a slouch in that department.

I do not think Matt is going down THAT easily. He is a Murdock after all....

Anyway, if there is one thing that first fight with The Man in the Black Mask against Nobu taught me, is that Matt can take A HECK of a beating and still keep going.

He got gutted by Nobu's bladed weapons. A very deep and severe wound on his stomach. He was bleeding all over the place. Still, Daredevil endured and beat the living snot out of him.

That is not all...he still had it in him to throw a few punches to Wilson Fisk immediately after that fight, realized he was not in shape to fight after getting hit a few times by Fisk, so he jumped out of the warehouse, landed on water, and traveled back to his apartment before passing out.

I also previously mentioned that Daredevil had some injuries during those Hallway fights....

Also, Batman's strongest strikes that have been able to one-shot his foes were when he was not being constantly assaulted and distracted by other mercenaries and had enough time to properly adjust his strikes.

In combat, he does not always have time. He has to be quick.

About that Superman punch, I am pretty sure Batman had some help with his "Anti-Superman Armor" for that.

Daredevil being faster and more resilient than the mercenaries should spell bad news for the Dark Knight.

Wow. People like bringing that amazing right hook up often.

Anyway, I stand by what I said before: Gotham's Savior had enough time to properly adjust his strike. When he also performed that strike, no one was around to distract him while he does it.

I will say though: I believe Batman wins, though I believe Daredevil will make him work for it hard.

Save

@ultimate_knight:

Batman had the aid of his grappling gun for that. Are you proposing that Batman will shoot his grappling gun every time Daredevil tries to land a hit to dodge it?

I'm pretty sure that Batman can react to and dodge all of Daredevil's hits from the billy club when he has feats like these:

This energy beam reached hundreds of meters in a second. Pretty sure that Batman can dodge the billy club attacks. Plus there was this:

If Batman is so fast, why did he get tagged by that mercenary who kicked his face? When Batman engaged those four mercenaries in pure hand to hand combat, he was getting fairly tagged by the knives (though it did not affect him thanks to his suit). Without the armor to assist him, Batman would probably be with his parents by now (which should make him pretty happy).

He got kicked in the face because he was on the ground with very limited movement while facing two mercenaries at the same time.

I think you've completely missed the point on why the Bat-suit was as armed as it was. The whole point of that Batman being bulky and having a titanium protected cowl was so that he could fight while intentionally tanking hits while taking care of other people. You could see for yourself in the battle that he didn't give a single shit about fodders behind it or at his side when facing multiple people because he knew that he had a titanium reinforced cowl that would easily protect him from fatal attacks. That's the whole point of that armor. It's like Iron Man getting tagged by fodders with weapons because he's too busy attacking others but he doesn't do anything to evade because he knows he has an armor that protects him from those attacks. It's the same with Batman. He couldn't give two shits about mercenaries that carried knives while they were behind him.

The only time he got tagged while trying to be aware of it or evade it was when he was on the ground and got stabbed, while having very little access to mobility. That's one of the reasons that whole fight scene was as smooth as it was, because Batman didn't stop all the time to evade or block attacks, since he knew that he could tank the attacks with ease because of the protection he had. That four-man situation you mentioned is a perfect example of this. He was beating the crap out of three other while the fourth one was behind him and tagged him with a knife on his neck, but Batman didn't do anything with all the attacks because he didn't need to do anything against some of the attacks. Sort of how Superman does stuff like this:

It doesn't hurt him, nor daze him and it doesn't bother him, so why need to evade it? It's the same situation with Batman. Only legit situation where he got tagged was when he got stabbed and that one was because he was at a disadvantage.

Daredevil usually got tagged in those Hallway fights. It should be understandable because the hallways are pretty tight spaced (unlike the warehouse). Also, in the first hallway fight, Daredevil was suffering from internal injuries. In the second one, In the second season's hallway/stairwell fight, Daredevil was suffering from a concussion from The Punisher's bullet to his helmet.

He almost got killed by a random mercenary in the first episode.

Batman felt some of the mercenaries' strikes, and Daredevil can hit harder and better than them no doubt.

Of course he felt it, same as if a ten year old hit me, but it doesn't mean he hurt, dazed or staggered me. The only time in that whole fight where Batman was legitimately hurt was when he got stabbed, which he was in pain when it happened, but after he removed the knife from himself, he continued as if nothing had happened to him.

Batman's exposed jaw is his weak point. If Daredevil can draw blood with his billy clubs based on his fight with Mr. Fisk, then a billy club hit from Mr. Murdock should really hurt. I admit, hitting Batman at his armored body suit may not do much damage, but it should stagger Batman, giving Daredevil an opening to use his more powerful strikes to land a solid hit on his jaw.

If Batman can dodge Doomsday's energy beam, then he should be able to dodge Daredevil's billy clubs. And don't say that it was the grappling hook that got Batman out of the way and not Batman himself, because Doomsday's eyes lit up right before the camera cut to Batman hanging on there ready to move.

Another testament to The Attorney's striking power, he was able to make Mr. Fisk draw blood with this final strike (which was his fist) during that fight.

I'm pretty sure that Batman can dodge Daredevil's hits as well as tank them. Daredevil can hit Batman in his jaw, but I'm sure Batman can tank it.

It also took Batman plenty of hits to take down those four mercenaries in pure melee combat.

Batman was facing plenty of enemies, and he was jabbing and crossing most of them. When he had the opportunity, he knocked single mercenaries TFO.

• Example one: https://youtu.be/MyVPh3Usrho?t=133
• Example two: https://youtu.be/MyVPh3Usrho?t=191

Unlike Daredevil who was legitimately struggling to take out single enemies...

• Example one: https://youtu.be/2N_0hvICKzg?t=245 (he took the first guy with surprise with a kick)
• Example two: https://youtu.be/2N_0hvICKzg?t=280 (he took this one with surprise as well). This is a random fodder BTW

Hell, take a look against his fight against Fisk, someone who isn't as durable, strong, fast, skilled or as heavy equipped with equipment as Batman is, yet Daredevil uses sooooo many hits to take him out and whatnot.

Do not also forget...Daredevil's armor offers some pretty solid protection, even though it is not as good as Batman's armor.

He shrugged off an assault rifle bullet to the chest, strikes from Nobu after supposedly getting a slight boost in physical stats, and took some hits at the head with his own billy club by Mr. Fisk, and was still good to go.

Batman has striking feats that have sent grown men flying, and at one point, when he sent a grown guy flying with a punch, the guy was flying towards him. Simply stopping the guy with a punch (Let's assume he weighs 190lbs since the average weight of a grown man in USA is 194 or something around that) is impossible for a fit martial artist in real life, but what Batman did was send the dude flying back a good 15ft away and would have gone farther if not for the hole in the ground:

That's definitely more striking power than what Nobu showed, and this Batman truly has superhuman strenght, both lifting and striking. Matt's not tanking these for long, specially not when Batman's skill is very much comparable to that of Matt's.

I will agree that Batman's striking power is better, but The Devil of Hell's Kitchen is by no means a slouch in that department.

Striking power vs striking power is irrelevant, Daredevil's striking power against Batman's durabiltiy is what matters and vice versa. Batman's got plenty to knock out Daredevil, can't say the same for Daredevil against Batman's durability.

Also, Batman's strongest strikes that have been able to one-shot his foes were when he was not being constantly assaulted and distracted by other mercenaries and had enough time to properly adjust his strikes.

In combat, he does not always have time. He has to be quick.

About that Superman punch, I am pretty sure Batman had some help with his "Anti-Superman Armor" for that.

Daredevil being faster and more resilient than the mercenaries should spell bad news for the Dark Knight.

Exactly. Matt is just one man, not 24. If King-pin, Punisher, some random mercenaries can strike Daredevil with their powerful strikes, then I'm sure Batman can as well.

Wow. People like bringing that amazing right hook up often.

Anyway, I stand by what I said before: Gotham's Savior had enough time to properly adjust his strike. When he also performed that strike, no one was around to distract him while he does it.

I will say though: I believe Batman wins, though I believe Daredevil will make him work for it hard.

Okay, look at it this way. If Batman is stronger, faster, more skilled, better equipped and smarter than Fisk, then why should this match be a fair fight when Daredevil was struggling heavily against Fisk? Just think about that.

@liqmidiq: Alright. Another fluffing long post to prove Batman wins with minimal effort. I am sorry, but I no longer have it in me to break it down. So I guess you win by default.

I will just say this though: Based on what I have read, you did not watch Daredevil (especially Season Two wherein he improves by a huge margin).

Based on what I have read, you have only watched fight clips from Youtube that do not give you the entire context of the fights.

I will say again that I believe Batman wins for the majority, though in an uphill struggle and Daredevil can snag a few wins.

I will just tag @dstreet45 to try and inform you.

Wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...GRAPPLING HOOK!

@ultimate_knight: I've watched the show. Watched season one twice and season two once. He isn't impressive. He is very weak.

Batman moved out of the way because of the grappling hook, but he started to move after Doomsday charged a beam. Take two seconds instead of ignoring it and watch the video and you'll see that Doomsday charged a beam before Batman even reached the place he was hanging from. Lol

Also, you're not taking into account the massive height and weight advatage Batman has. If Fisk gives Daredevil a hard time, someone Batman's stronger, faster, more skilled and more durable then, then it's only common sense that Batman won't have to struggle that badly against Daredevil. Just like MCU super soldiers are physically superior to Batman, Batman is superior to Daredevil.

I'm ending this debate here.

@ultimate_knight: I'm away on a track meet so I don't have time to post detailed rebuttals on my laptop and I'm really burnt out with this debate. All the lowballing and ignoring context is really getting old at this point. Best I could do is post his respect thread (though I doubt that would change anyone's mind):

Season 1: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/daredevil-429/mcuneflix-daredevil-respect-thread-1775436/

Season 2: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/season-2-mcunetflix-daredevil-respect-thread-1843704/#2

Alright and I also agree. Thank you for the replying though.

@ultimate_knight: No problem

I feel this is a good fight in character, though Matt would take it handily when bloodlusted.

Matt gets curbstomped. I've now realised how pathetically weak he is.

This is a cool fight. I'm glad to see that the DCEU Batman wank is being fought against in this thread.

take off both armor and daredevil would beat the shit out of him

Matt wins this 6/10.

Seriously

Bump.

Bruce, but barely.

@jashro44: Could we get a title change from "BvS" to "DCEU" in order to future-proof it for later movies?

DD

Bruce.

I want this thread locked.

Batman curbstomps, Dumpsterdevil still gets beatings from fodder.

Can't wait for Luke Cage to save him from thugs in The Defenders.

Let's get real guys, Daredevil wouldn't have stood a chance against Asian Mercenary, even if he was holding back as much as he was against Batman.