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#1 Posted by Magnus/Murdock (509 posts) - - Show Bio

My Favorite Hero and Heroine vs My friend's. Who would win?

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#2 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio

Ms.Marvel carries Daredevil and then she unloads on Cap until he dies then they tag-team Kitty.

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#3 Posted by Precise (21954 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Ms.Marvel carries Daredevil and then she unloads on Cap until he dies then they tag-team Kitty."
And Kitty is just going to stand there? Kitty knows better and will phase Cap and her. I'm going with team two, i assume these are the current versions.
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#4 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Precise said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Ms.Marvel carries Daredevil and then she unloads on Cap until he dies then they tag-team Kitty."
And Kitty is just going to stand there? Kitty knows better and will phase Cap and her. I'm going with team two, i assume these are the current versions."
It doesn't matter if Kitty stands there or not..it's not like she can save Cap.Ms.Marvel is faster than Cap and Kitty.She could kill him before Kitty makes a move.
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#5 Posted by Precise (21954 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"It doesn't matter if Kitty stands there or not..it's not like she can save Cap.Ms.Marvel is faster than Cap and Kitty.She could kill him before Kitty makes a move."
To my knowledge Ms. Marvel isn't what she used to be, if she puts too much strain on herself with her power she'll cause herself great physical pain. What's to stop Kitty just phasing through Ms. Marvels attacks until she gets too weakened to fight? And now you're assuming that cap will be pretty far away from Kitty and Ms. Marvel close to him.. i've not seen this specified by the TS.
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#6 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Precise said:
"Vance Astro said:
"It doesn't matter if Kitty stands there or not..it's not like she can save Cap.Ms.Marvel is faster than Cap and Kitty.She could kill him before Kitty makes a move."
To my knowledge Ms. Marvel isn't what she used to be, if she puts too much strain on herself with her power she'll cause herself great physical pain. What's to stop Kitty just phasing through Ms. Marvels attacks until she gets too weakened to fight? And now you're assuming that cap will be pretty far away from Kitty and Ms. Marvel close to him.. i've not seen this specified by the TS."
That's not true at all.That was only during Dark Reign.When She ended up as Binary and she was complaining about the pain.She was already in pain before she became Binary.She claimed something was wrong with her powers because she had never been in pain from going all out before.Ms.Marvel has emitted enough energy to destroy a planet..in fact she destroyed the Brood's planet.Kitty can phase right through Ms.Marvel's attacks from the start but unless her and Cap are really close...she can't save him.If Cap is even two steps off of her...he's dead.Even assuming Ms.Marvel would still hurt herself if she put too much strain on her powers..she wouldn't have to use anywhere near half her powers to kill Kitty or Cap with a direct hit...Kitty phasing until she wastes all of her energy will not happen.Ms.Marvel knows when to stop.Once Cap is out of the picture Kitty is done as long as she sticks with Daredevil...there is nowhere she phase around them where she won't be heard or detected.
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#7 Posted by Precise (21954 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"That's not true at all.That was only during Dark Reign.When She ended up as Binary and she was complaining about the pain.She was already in pain before she became Binary.She claimed something was wrong with her powers because she had never been in pain from going all out before.Ms.Marvel has emitted enough energy to destroy a planet..in fact she destroyed the Brood's planet.Kitty can phase right through Ms.Marvel's attacks from the start but unless her and Cap are really close...she can't save him.If Cap is even two steps off of her...he's dead.Even assuming Ms.Marvel would still hurt herself if she put too much strain on her powers..she wouldn't have to use anywhere near half her powers to kill Kitty or Cap with a direct hit...Kitty phasing until she wastes all of her energy will not happen.Ms.Marvel knows when to stop.Once Cap is out of the picture Kitty is done as long as she sticks with Daredevil...there is nowhere she phase around them where she won't be heard or detected."
But wasn't it during New Avengers, the battle vs the Hood and his gang that she also complained about the stress on her body? And yes, if Ms. Marvel manage to hit Cap or Kitty she would most likely knock them out or worse, but the trick is will she hit them? Honestly i don't think Daredevil will stay 'alive' long enough in this battle. When Ms. Marvel attacks first, Kitty and cap can simply phase through the ground and pop up near daredevil and knock him out. Now you say Daredevil will detect Kitty's phasing but has this been shown that he's able to? Does she give of smell, sound, movement when they're phased? I think he'll only notice it when it's too late. Then it's still vs Ms. Marvel and i think she can be surprised as well. For example cap tossing a shield at her for distraction and kitty phasing from behind.. just an example. I'm still going with Kitty and Cap on this one.
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#8 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Precise said:
"Vance Astro said:
"That's not true at all.That was only during Dark Reign.When She ended up as Binary and she was complaining about the pain.She was already in pain before she became Binary.She claimed something was wrong with her powers because she had never been in pain from going all out before.Ms.Marvel has emitted enough energy to destroy a planet..in fact she destroyed the Brood's planet.Kitty can phase right through Ms.Marvel's attacks from the start but unless her and Cap are really close...she can't save him.If Cap is even two steps off of her...he's dead.Even assuming Ms.Marvel would still hurt herself if she put too much strain on her powers..she wouldn't have to use anywhere near half her powers to kill Kitty or Cap with a direct hit...Kitty phasing until she wastes all of her energy will not happen.Ms.Marvel knows when to stop.Once Cap is out of the picture Kitty is done as long as she sticks with Daredevil...there is nowhere she phase around them where she won't be heard or detected."
But wasn't it during New Avengers, the battle vs the Hood and his gang that she also complained about the stress on her body? And yes, if Ms. Marvel manage to hit Cap or Kitty she would most likely knock them out or worse, but the trick is will she hit them? Honestly i don't think Daredevil will stay 'alive' long enough in this battle. When Ms. Marvel attacks first, Kitty and cap can simply phase through the ground and pop up near daredevil and knock him out. Now you say Daredevil will detect Kitty's phasing but has this been shown that he's able to? Does she give of smell, sound, movement when they're phased? I think he'll only notice it when it's too late. Then it's still vs Ms. Marvel and i think she can be surprised as well. For example cap tossing a shield at her for distraction and kitty phasing from behind.. just an example. I'm still going with Kitty and Cap on this one."
New Avengers isn't during Dark Reign now? Ms.Marvel only became a New Avenger during Dark Reign.You don't think Daredevil will stay alive? how is that even possible? Even if Kitty phases..Daredevil can detect her.He has detected ghosts so I know he can detect Kitty.What makes it even worse is..if Kitty is alive while she is phasing..which she is..she should still have a heartbeat.Which means no matter where she goes when she phases..Daredevil will know exactly where she is.Either way she won't go undetected by Daredevil.Ghosts don't have heartbeats,you can't smell them,they aren't even alive but Daredevil detected one in  a crowd of people.Pretty much nobody can sneak up on Daredevil and he's way faster than Kitty..if he's fast enough to return bullets to the shoot by batting them back he's fast enough to dodge Kitty as soon as she appears behind him.Ms.Marvel can blast Cap's shield back and still keep her eyes on Cap and Kitty.They can't get away from this ass whoopin'.
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#9 Posted by WARLOCK2792 (18072 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Precise said:
"Vance Astro said:
"That's not true at all.That was only during Dark Reign.When She ended up as Binary and she was complaining about the pain.She was already in pain before she became Binary.She claimed something was wrong with her powers because she had never been in pain from going all out before.Ms.Marvel has emitted enough energy to destroy a planet..in fact she destroyed the Brood's planet.Kitty can phase right through Ms.Marvel's attacks from the start but unless her and Cap are really close...she can't save him.If Cap is even two steps off of her...he's dead.Even assuming Ms.Marvel would still hurt herself if she put too much strain on her powers..she wouldn't have to use anywhere near half her powers to kill Kitty or Cap with a direct hit...Kitty phasing until she wastes all of her energy will not happen.Ms.Marvel knows when to stop.Once Cap is out of the picture Kitty is done as long as she sticks with Daredevil...there is nowhere she phase around them where she won't be heard or detected."
But wasn't it during New Avengers, the battle vs the Hood and his gang that she also complained about the stress on her body? And yes, if Ms. Marvel manage to hit Cap or Kitty she would most likely knock them out or worse, but the trick is will she hit them? Honestly i don't think Daredevil will stay 'alive' long enough in this battle. When Ms. Marvel attacks first, Kitty and cap can simply phase through the ground and pop up near daredevil and knock him out. Now you say Daredevil will detect Kitty's phasing but has this been shown that he's able to? Does she give of smell, sound, movement when they're phased? I think he'll only notice it when it's too late. Then it's still vs Ms. Marvel and i think she can be surprised as well. For example cap tossing a shield at her for distraction and kitty phasing from behind.. just an example. I'm still going with Kitty and Cap on this one."
New Avengers isn't during Dark Reign now? Ms.Marvel only became a New Avenger during Dark Reign.You don't think Daredevil will stay alive? how is that even possible? Even if Kitty phases..Daredevil can detect her.He has detected ghosts so I know he can detect Kitty.What makes it even worse is..if Kitty is alive while she is phasing..which she is..she should still have a heartbeat.Which means no matter where she goes when she phases..Daredevil will know exactly where she is.Either way she won't go undetected by Daredevil.Ghosts don't have heartbeats,you can't smell them,they aren't even alive but Daredevil detected one in  a crowd of people.Pretty much nobody can sneak up on Daredevil and he's way faster than Kitty..if he's fast enough to return bullets to the shoot by batting them back he's fast enough to dodge Kitty as soon as she appears behind him.Ms.Marvel can blast Cap's shield back and still keep her eyes on Cap and Kitty.They can't get away from this ass whoopin'.
"
LOL Brilliant closing Vance.
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#10 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
White Mage said:
LOL Brilliant closing Vance. "
Thanks White Mage lol.
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#11 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

Team two does not have a prayer. Seriously people.

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#12 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with team two. Not every character with superspeed moves faster then characters without can react. Captain America has dealt with speed before I see no reason why he couldn't here. He's fast enough to dodge bullets, he'd be fast enough to raise his shield and absorb Ms. Marvel's attack. And neither characters from team one can touch Kitty so.....

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#13 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

Ms. Marvel could always just rip the shield off him instead of hitting him. If she tried to take it from him, either the shield comes or the arm and shield come.

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#14 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio

That's true. But who says she even attacks Cap first? And if Kitty is touching Cap (which isn't a stretch. Its a technique she uses often) then what does team one do? Slowly get picked apart thats what.

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#15 Posted by The_Martian (37399 posts) - - Show Bio

I have a question, sure team two avoids getting hit, but then what? They have to stop phasing to attack eventually.

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#16 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
Nobody said:
"I have a question, sure team two avoids getting hit, but then what? They have to stop phasing to attack eventually."
Actually Kitty can phase parts of her body while leaving others un-phased.
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#17 Posted by The_Martian (37399 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"Nobody said:
"I have a question, sure team two avoids getting hit, but then what? They have to stop phasing to attack eventually."
Actually Kitty can phase parts of her body while leaving others un-phased."
Yeah, but that still doesn't explain how either on team two take out Ms. Marvel.
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#18 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
Nobody said:
"Gambler said:
"Nobody said:
"I have a question, sure team two avoids getting hit, but then what? They have to stop phasing to attack eventually."
Actually Kitty can phase parts of her body while leaving others un-phased."
Yeah, but that still doesn't explain how either on team two take out Ms. Marvel."
If Ms. Marvel gets phased by Kitty, or Kitty simply walks through her while being phased, she's down. Seems kinda simple.
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#19 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, Team one can phase that is true. But while phased, she is still susceptible to heat. Ms. Marvel's attacks can still hurt her. Plus she cannot phase Captain America's shield so if they went underground, he would have to leave it behind. Now on top of that, they have to hold their breath while underground so eventually they need to come back up and that is when they get cooked.

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#20 Posted by The_Martian (37399 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"Nobody said:
"Gambler said:
"Nobody said:
"I have a question, sure team two avoids getting hit, but then what? They have to stop phasing to attack eventually."
Actually Kitty can phase parts of her body while leaving others un-phased."
Yeah, but that still doesn't explain how either on team two take out Ms. Marvel."
If Ms. Marvel gets phased by Kitty, or Kitty simply walks through her while being phased, she's down. Seems kinda simple."
Ms. Marvel has flight and long ranged attacks. I have a hard time believe she would just stand right next to Kitty while she tries to phase into her.
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#21 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"Well, Team one can phase that is true. But while phased, she is still susceptible to heat. Ms. Marvel's attacks can still hurt her. Plus she cannot phase Captain America's shield so if they went underground, he would have to leave it behind. Now on top of that, they have to hold their breath while underground so eventually they need to come back up and that is when they get cooked."
For Ms. Marvel to use heat she'd have to know where to aim it. And Kitty can phase Cap's shield, it would cause her pain but she can still do it. If they phased into the ground its not like they have to come back up in the same spot lol. Sure Ms. Marvel could use her heat but only if she knew where they are.
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#22 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

That is where Daredevil comes in. He can track them without any trouble. And yes she can phase the shield but if adamantium makes her want to drop into a fetal position, then the shield would probably put her down.

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#23 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"I'm going with team two. Not every character with superspeed moves faster then characters without can react. Captain America has dealt with speed before I see no reason why he couldn't here. He's fast enough to dodge bullets, he'd be fast enough to raise his shield and absorb Ms. Marvel's attack. And neither characters from team one can touch Kitty so....."
Captain America doesn't react faster than Carol does.Just because he has tagged people with Super speed..that doesn't really mean anything.Her reaction time and speed are both superhuman.I see plenty of reason why he couldn't deal with Carol's speed here.She's probably faster than any speedster he has ever dealt with and she also fires projectiles that can cover a large area.There is no where for him to run or dodge.Only Kitty phasing him will keep him from getting owned.Dodging bullets isn't the same as dodging something that leaves destruction behind like an explosive.Cap can only cover so much with the shield..Carol knows him so i'm sure she would fire the blast where he could have the chance to block it.If she shot it at his feet it would either put him on his ass or he would lose a leg depending on the power she plans to put out.If Kitty is just going to phase and not become solid long enough for anyone to put hands on her..nobody wins because Carol and Murdock aren't stupid enough to just stand there and let Kitty come up with a plan.


Gambler said:
"That's true. But who says she even attacks Cap first? And if Kitty is touching Cap (which isn't a stretch. Its a technique she uses often) then what does team one do? Slowly get picked apart thats what."
She attacks Cap first because she knows Kitty will phase.Why attack someone you have no chance of hitting?
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#24 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Captain America doesn't react faster than Carol does.Just because he has tagged people with Super speed..that doesn't really mean anything.Her reaction time and speed are both superhuman.I see plenty of reason why he couldn't deal with Carol's speed here.She's probably faster than any speedster he has ever dealt with and she also fires projectiles that can cover a large area.There is no where for him to run or dodge.Only Kitty phasing him will keep him from getting owned.Dodging bullets isn't the same as dodging something that leaves destruction behind like an explosive.Cap can only cover so much with the shield..Carol knows him so i'm sure she would fire the blast where he could have the chance to block it.If she shot it at his feet it would either put him on his ass or he would lose a leg depending on the power she plans to put out.If Kitty is just going to phase and not become solid long enough for anyone to put hands on her..nobody wins because Carol and Murdock aren't stupid enough to just stand there and let Kitty come up with a plan.
Carol is not Superman. First off I never said he'd dodge her projectiles, your original theory had her speedblizing him (which Cap could react to). Projectiles are a different story. But its not like Kitty couldn't phase him out of the way. I see plenty of reasons why Cap could deal with Ms. Marvel's speed, the most important one is he's dealt with speed before. Your trying to make Carol out to me some master tactician. I'm sure since Cap knows her he'd also know where to dodge and where not to dodge. And what exactly he could do to maximize his odds while minimalizing hers. LOL yeah up his ass Vance, cause Cap doesn't know how to use his shield. Cause he's never got down in a crouched position to block before lol. Kitty can phase to get in close and all she has to do is get a hand on Carol to put her down. Or engage Daredevil long enough to phase through him. Sure he can track her, and? Does that mean he'd never throw a punch if she's right there? She's an accomplished martial artists and the master of at least 3 styles. She's no chump.

Vance Astro said:
"She attacks Cap first because she knows Kitty will phase.Why attack someone you have no chance of hitting?"
Cause Kitty is the bigger threat. She takes her out the fight is over. Why would she leave the most dangerous player on the board to roam free and protect Cap? See I can speculate as well ;P






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#25 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

i already stated that Ms. Marvel's projections can and will hurt Kitty. Phasing Captain America's shield will almost surely put her down as well. There is not much room for her to be useful in this fight. How would she even get close to Ms. Marvel? Ms. Marvel flies so Kitty would have to reveal herself in order to get close assuming she is phasing underground. That leaves her open for a roasting.

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#26 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"That is where Daredevil comes in. He can track them without any trouble. And yes she can phase the shield but if adamantium makes her want to drop into a fetal position, then the shield would probably put her down."
Its the amount of adamantium that determines her reaction. Something like Cap's shield would only cause mild discomfort, not the "Fetal" position. As far as Dardevil tracking them I would say depending on the location there are ways around it. Like Cap slamming his shield into something metal, creating enough noise to disorient or through off DD's senses. Its been done before.
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#27 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

She almost passed out when she phased through X-23. There is not a lot of adamantium in X-23 at all.

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#28 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"i already stated that Ms. Marvel's projections can and will hurt Kitty. Phasing Captain America's shield will almost surely put her down as well. There is not much room for her to be useful in this fight. How would she even get close to Ms. Marvel? Ms. Marvel flies so Kitty would have to reveal herself in order to get close assuming she is phasing underground. That leaves her open for a roasting."
I already addressed Ms. Marvel's projectiles in two different responses now. Not sure where your getting Cap's shield would down Kitty but you may wanna go back and look that over. If Ms. Marvel is flying then how does DD let her know where Kitty and Cap have phased to?
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#29 Edited by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

He can hitch a ride. Unless you are going to tell me now that while in flight Daredevil's senses are useless.

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#30 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"So now when in flight Daredevil's senses are useless?"
Huh? If Ms. Marvel is flying how does DD relay where team one has gone? Shout? Wouldnt he be a lil busy trying to track them and save his own ass (seeing as how he's now on the ground alone making him an easy target)
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#31 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"erik said:
"So now when in flight Daredevil's senses are useless?"
Huh? If Ms. Marvel is flying how does DD relay where team one has gone? Shout? Wouldnt he be a lil busy trying to track them and save his own ass (seeing as how he's now on the ground alone making him an easy target)"
He has shown the ability to communicate while dodging attacks. Most characters can.
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#32 Posted by Precise (21954 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"New Avengers isn't during Dark Reign now? Ms.Marvel only became a New Avenger during Dark Reign.You don't think Daredevil will stay alive? how is that even possible? Even if Kitty phases..Daredevil can detect her.He has detected ghosts so I know he can detect Kitty.What makes it even worse is..if Kitty is alive while she is phasing..which she is..she should still have a heartbeat.Which means no matter where she goes when she phases..Daredevil will know exactly where she is.Either way she won't go undetected by Daredevil.Ghosts don't have heartbeats,you can't smell them,they aren't even alive but Daredevil detected one in  a crowd of people.Pretty much nobody can sneak up on Daredevil and he's way faster than Kitty..if he's fast enough to return bullets to the shoot by batting them back he's fast enough to dodge Kitty as soon as she appears behind him.Ms.Marvel can blast Cap's shield back and still keep her eyes on Cap and Kitty.They can't get away from this ass whoopin'."
wow this battle heated up.. where to start, where to start :p

Ok, fair enough. I have no idea if Kitty's phasing makes any kind of sound, heartbeat or anything, so for that's up to speculation. But let's assume Daredevil can track her, Cap knows this and he'll make handy use of this, he can throw him off guard with another sound like banging his shield against.. i don't know a thrash can. If Kitty comes up from beneath him she can still pull him down, even if he manages to avoid it the first time, he will tire. And he will tire sooner than cap or Kitty. How exactly does Ms. Marvel keep track of Kitty when she's phased and she has captain America in front of her?..
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#33 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

Ms. Marvel can also carry him.

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#34 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Captain America doesn't react faster than Carol does.Just because he has tagged people with Super speed..that doesn't really mean anything.Her reaction time and speed are both superhuman.I see plenty of reason why he couldn't deal with Carol's speed here.She's probably faster than any speedster he has ever dealt with and she also fires projectiles that can cover a large area.There is no where for him to run or dodge.Only Kitty phasing him will keep him from getting owned.Dodging bullets isn't the same as dodging something that leaves destruction behind like an explosive.Cap can only cover so much with the shield..Carol knows him so i'm sure she would fire the blast where he could have the chance to block it.If she shot it at his feet it would either put him on his ass or he would lose a leg depending on the power she plans to put out.If Kitty is just going to phase and not become solid long enough for anyone to put hands on her..nobody wins because Carol and Murdock aren't stupid enough to just stand there and let Kitty come up with a plan.
Carol is not Superman. First off I never said he'd dodge her projectiles, your original theory had her speedblizing him (which Cap could react to). Projectiles are a different story. But its not like Kitty couldn't phase him out of the way. I see plenty of reasons why Cap could deal with Ms. Marvel's speed, the most important one is he's dealt with speed before. Your trying to make Carol out to me some master tactician. I'm sure since Cap knows her he'd also know where to dodge and where not to dodge. And what exactly he could do to maximize his odds while minimalizing hers. LOL yeah up his ass Vance, cause Cap doesn't know how to use his shield. Cause he's never got down in a crouched position to block before lol. Kitty can phase to get in close and all she has to do is get a hand on Carol to put her down. Or engage Daredevil long enough to phase through him. Sure he can track her, and? Does that mean he'd never throw a punch if she's right there? She's an accomplished martial artists and the master of at least 3 styles. She's no chump.

Vance Astro said:
"She attacks Cap first because she knows Kitty will phase.Why attack someone you have no chance of hitting?"
Cause Kitty is the bigger threat. She takes her out the fight is over. Why would she leave the most dangerous player on the board to roam free and protect Cap? See I can speculate as well ;P"
I know Carol isn't Superman but she does speed blitz people and she has speed blitzed people who have Superhuman speed which Cap does not.I never actually said she would speedblitz Cap I said she was faster than both of them so she could kill them before they even move.I meant she would blast one of them before they move.Most likely Cap I don't know how fast Kitty phases.I know Kitty could phase Cap out of the way and that's why I said it depends on how close they are to each other..she has to touch someone to phase them she can't just think it an it happens I don't think.What speedsters has Cap dealt with besides Speed Demon,The Whizzer and Quicksilver? All of which who are or were slower than her BTW.Carol isn't a master tactician but she isn't an idiot.Anyone who knows Cap can make the deduction that she should shoot directly at him because he would block it.That's not even really a tactic it's common sense.Carol may not be a master tactician but she is a tactician nonetheless.She has plenty of experience with making battle decisions even before she was Ms.Marvel.It doesn't really matter where Cap dodges.Assuming we are using Carol at her best and not in character...she could tear the whol battlefield apart.Cap can't dodge everything.I never said that Cap never crouched and used his shield or anything of the sort but getting all the way down before Carol can get a projectile off is BS.Cap isn't that fast.Lastly..Kitty doesn't have to be a chump but Daredevil would beat the f#ck out of her.His reaction time is above hers and he is a much better and more experienced fighter.
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#35 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio
Precise said:
"Vance Astro said:
"New Avengers isn't during Dark Reign now? Ms.Marvel only became a New Avenger during Dark Reign.You don't think Daredevil will stay alive? how is that even possible? Even if Kitty phases..Daredevil can detect her.He has detected ghosts so I know he can detect Kitty.What makes it even worse is..if Kitty is alive while she is phasing..which she is..she should still have a heartbeat.Which means no matter where she goes when she phases..Daredevil will know exactly where she is.Either way she won't go undetected by Daredevil.Ghosts don't have heartbeats,you can't smell them,they aren't even alive but Daredevil detected one in  a crowd of people.Pretty much nobody can sneak up on Daredevil and he's way faster than Kitty..if he's fast enough to return bullets to the shoot by batting them back he's fast enough to dodge Kitty as soon as she appears behind him.Ms.Marvel can blast Cap's shield back and still keep her eyes on Cap and Kitty.They can't get away from this ass whoopin'."
wow this battle heated up.. where to start, where to start :p Ok, fair enough. I have no idea if Kitty's phasing makes any kind of sound, heartbeat or anything, so for that's up to speculation. But let's assume Daredevil can track her, Cap knows this and he'll make handy use of this, he can throw him off guard with another sound like banging his shield against.. i don't know a thrash can. If Kitty comes up from beneath him she can still pull him down, even if he manages to avoid it the first time, he will tire. And he will tire sooner than cap or Kitty. How exactly does Ms. Marvel keep track of Kitty when she's phased and she has captain America in front of her?.. "
Her heart does still beat and she still needs to breath as well so Daredevil can track that as well.
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#36 Posted by Precise (21954 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"Her heart does still beat and she still needs to breath as well so Daredevil can track that as well."
She holds her breath during the phasing.. i don't know if her heart beats during the phasing or if it makes a sound while phased.
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#37 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Precise said:
"Vance Astro said:
"New Avengers isn't during Dark Reign now? Ms.Marvel only became a New Avenger during Dark Reign.You don't think Daredevil will stay alive? how is that even possible? Even if Kitty phases..Daredevil can detect her.He has detected ghosts so I know he can detect Kitty.What makes it even worse is..if Kitty is alive while she is phasing..which she is..she should still have a heartbeat.Which means no matter where she goes when she phases..Daredevil will know exactly where she is.Either way she won't go undetected by Daredevil.Ghosts don't have heartbeats,you can't smell them,they aren't even alive but Daredevil detected one in  a crowd of people.Pretty much nobody can sneak up on Daredevil and he's way faster than Kitty..if he's fast enough to return bullets to the shoot by batting them back he's fast enough to dodge Kitty as soon as she appears behind him.Ms.Marvel can blast Cap's shield back and still keep her eyes on Cap and Kitty.They can't get away from this ass whoopin'."
wow this battle heated up.. where to start, where to start :p Ok, fair enough. I have no idea if Kitty's phasing makes any kind of sound, heartbeat or anything, so for that's up to speculation. But let's assume Daredevil can track her, Cap knows this and he'll make handy use of this, he can throw him off guard with another sound like banging his shield against.. i don't know a thrash can. If Kitty comes up from beneath him she can still pull him down, even if he manages to avoid it the first time, he will tire. And he will tire sooner than cap or Kitty. How exactly does Ms. Marvel keep track of Kitty when she's phased and she has captain America in front of her?.. "
I'm not assuming DD can track her I know he can.She doesn't have to make a sound.He can track ghosts and they aren't even alive.So how is a phasing person going to get by him? I'll tell you how..she's not.I guess people here don't read alot of DD but any random loud sound isn't going to throw DD off.Daredevil lives in New York..there's loud sounds everywhere.Daredevil has also dealt with explosions so I know loud sounds won't take him out.Cap can bang on anything he wants.Ms.Marvel doesn't have to keep track of Kitty...she can fly.If Kitty can't hit her and she can't hit Kitty..nobody wins.
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#38 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Precise said:
"erik said:
"Her heart does still beat and she still needs to breath as well so Daredevil can track that as well."
She holds her breath during the phasing.. i don't know if her heart beats during the phasing or if it makes a sound while phased."
Her heart doesn't need to beat.
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#39 Posted by Precise (21954 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"I'm not assuming DD can track her I know he can.She doesn't have to make a sound.He can track ghosts and they aren't even alive.So how is a phasing person going to get by him? I'll tell you how..she's not.I guess people here don't read alot of DD but any random loud sound isn't going to throw DD off.Daredevil lives in New York..there's loud sounds everywhere.Daredevil has also dealt with explosions so I know loud sounds won't take him out.Cap can bang on anything he wants.Ms.Marvel doesn't have to keep track of Kitty...she can fly.If Kitty can't hit her and she can't hit Kitty..nobody wins."
Perhaps a ghost makes a shift in the wind, perhaps a ghost does make a sound, i don't know if phasing is different from a ghost.. what makes you so certain? To me it's speculation.
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#40 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio
Precise said:
"erik said:
"Her heart does still beat and she still needs to breath as well so Daredevil can track that as well."
She holds her breath during the phasing.. i don't know if her heart beats during the phasing or if it makes a sound while phased."
That actually was my point. She has to unphase to take a breath. Daredevil can put her down right there. And yes, her heart does still beat while phased but as Vance pointed out, he does not need to track her by her heartbeat. 
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#41 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Precise said:
"Vance Astro said:
"I'm not assuming DD can track her I know he can.She doesn't have to make a sound.He can track ghosts and they aren't even alive.So how is a phasing person going to get by him? I'll tell you how..she's not.I guess people here don't read alot of DD but any random loud sound isn't going to throw DD off.Daredevil lives in New York..there's loud sounds everywhere.Daredevil has also dealt with explosions so I know loud sounds won't take him out.Cap can bang on anything he wants.Ms.Marvel doesn't have to keep track of Kitty...she can fly.If Kitty can't hit her and she can't hit Kitty..nobody wins."
Perhaps a ghost makes a shift in the wind, perhaps a ghost does make a sound, i don't know if phasing is different from a ghost.. what makes you so certain? To me it's speculation. "
All he said was he "sensed" it.No shift in the wind or sounds.If you ever read DD you know he always explains exactly how he detects something.Phasing isn't the same as being a ghost because a phased person is still alive.
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#42 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"
Gambler said:
"erik said:
"So now when in flight Daredevil's senses are useless?"
Huh? If Ms. Marvel is flying how does DD relay where team one has gone? Shout? Wouldnt he be a lil busy trying to track them and save his own ass (seeing as how he's now on the ground alone making him an easy target)"
He has shown the ability to communicate while dodging attacks. Most characters can.
"
Your missing my point but its okay.
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#43 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"Ms. Marvel can also carry him."

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#44 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"erik said:
"Ms. Marvel can also carry him.""
She sure can, and then what? They fly around while Kitty an Cap phase below?
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#45 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

Well maybe you can explain your point to a simpleton like myself. Keeping in mind all that has been discussed thus far of course. 

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#46 Posted by Precise (21954 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"All he said was he "sensed" it.No shift in the wind or sounds.If you ever read DD you know he always explains exactly how he detects something.Phasing isn't the same as being a ghost because a phased person is still alive."
Well then how did he detect it? And yes, i read DD. But if he always explain how he senses it, how did he sense the ghosts? If you explain that to me i'd be more than willing to change my opinion on that fact.
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#47 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"I know Carol isn't Superman but she does speed blitz people and she has speed blitzed people who have Superhuman speed which Cap does not.I never actually said she would speedblitz Cap I said she was faster than both of them so she could kill them before they even move.I meant she would blast one of them before they move.Most likely Cap I don't know how fast Kitty phases.I know Kitty could phase Cap out of the way and that's why I said it depends on how close they are to each other..she has to touch someone to phase them she can't just think it an it happens I don't think.What speedsters has Cap dealt with besides Speed Demon,The Whizzer and Quicksilver? All of which who are or were slower than her BTW.Carol isn't a master tactician but she isn't an idiot.Anyone who knows Cap can make the deduction that she should shoot directly at him because he would block it.That's not even really a tactic it's common sense.Carol may not be a master tactician but she is a tactician nonetheless.She has plenty of experience with making battle decisions even before she was Ms.Marvel.It doesn't really matter where Cap dodges.Assuming we are using Carol at her best and not in character...she could tear the whol battlefield apart.Cap can't dodge everything.I never said that Cap never crouched and used his shield or anything of the sort but getting all the way down before Carol can get a projectile off is BS.Cap isn't that fast.Lastly..Kitty doesn't have to be a chump but Daredevil would beat the f#ck out of her.His reaction time is above hers and he is a much better and more experienced fighter."
Maybe your right.




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#48 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
erik said:
"Well maybe you can explain your point to a simpleton like myself. Keeping in mind all that has been discussed thus far of course. "
I think you'll be able to figure it out on your own. Just try really hard.
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#49 Posted by Erik (32502 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, why do you not save me the trouble of having to exercise my extremely relaxed brain by simply explaining it to me. 

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#50 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Precise said:
"Vance Astro said:
"All he said was he "sensed" it.No shift in the wind or sounds.If you ever read DD you know he always explains exactly how he detects something.Phasing isn't the same as being a ghost because a phased person is still alive."
Well then how did he detect it? And yes, i read DD. But if he always explain how he senses it, how did he sense the ghosts? If you explain that to me i'd be more than willing to change my opinion on that fact."
I'm not saying you don't read DD i'm saying.If you do you know as well as I do if he detects something..he immediately says how he does it.I don't know how he senses ghosts..maybe he can feel them.They only show his radar going off and he sees the ghost among the other people.
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