Daredevil (MCU) vs Malcolm Merlyn (CW)

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#101 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

@stahlflamme said:

That's Nyssas feat and its from after the LoA all turned to crap. But sure. Daredevil taking out seven members of the hand including those with automatic weapons.

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The LoA lost a lot because the characters they were fighting were that good they don't really suck. Their feats are much better than the Hand anyway.

Also the question was about Season 1 Matt which Nobu can be scaled to...Season 2 is a version that could outsell him. Ollie's standard showings against fodder gangs and such are far better than Matt's were in season 1 where he struggled to put people down and got tagged often.

Leauge ninjas might not suck, but most of them aren't as good as the few with impressive feats (like arrow timing and such). And they have had some low showings. Judging all League ninjas to be at the level of the impressive few isn't accurate when they consistently do not perform at that level

Nobu has some wins over S2 Matt as well. They're relatively even. And besides, this thread's about Matt, not Nobu

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#102 Edited by LlehDevil (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

:( I don't know who wins this, but if Malcolm can fire off two at the same time at Daredevil, he wins.

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#103 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

The microwave is my favorite

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#104 Edited by Stahlflamme (5876 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser said:
@stahlflamme said:

That's Nyssas feat and its from after the LoA all turned to crap. But sure. Daredevil taking out seven members of the hand including those with automatic weapons.

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The LoA lost a lot because the characters they were fighting were that good they don't really suck. Their feats are much better than the Hand anyway.

Also the question was about Season 1 Matt which Nobu can be scaled to...Season 2 is a version that could outsell him. Ollie's standard showings against fodder gangs and such are far better than Matt's were in season 1 where he struggled to put people down and got tagged often.

Laurel at a point where a suprise knife is drawn on her lets her lose to a random thugh fought an entire group, one was knocked out by Felicity who got a drop on him, one was knocked out by a single punch from Dax, when the league assassin got the drop on him. No, these guys are not good. The ones that were good where the ones in season 2, which all carried there own unique weapon of choice, suggesting they might have been high ranked members of the organisation. And this is Daredevil against Malcolm, the only reason why you go with season 1 Olliver is, because you fail to find own feats for Malcolm and use Olivers from a time when Malcolm was better.

@rbt said:
@arcus1 said:
@rbt said:

Not even as close as people are making it out to be. Matt is not even S1 Oliver level, let alone Malcolm's who outright stomped him.

Malcolm's never outright stomped S1 Ollie. I guess maybe their first fight could be considered a stomp,

I think the time Malcolm beat Oliver to unconsciousness can be considered a stomp. Oliver did little to nothing to Malcolm in the fight.

but Matt won't be nearly as easy for Malcolm to get the drop on like he was able to do against Ollie

I am not so sure about that. Its pretty much impossible to sneak up on Ollie and Malcolm was able to do it. Its already shown that Matt can be snuck upon by fodders. A hand ninja was able to shoot him with an arrow, IIRC. Even if the ninja was masking his own sound, he couldn't possible have masked the stretching of bow string and the sound of arrow through air. And this is what happens when someone tried to shoot Oliver. With or without warning.

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What makes these feats even more impressive was the fact that Oliver was not even expecting anyone to attack him. Malcolm had him so focused on what was ahead, he not only was able to walk behind him, but tag him with arrows as well, which is a pretty hard thing to do. I don't think Matt's environment awareness is really up to the degree that even Malcolm won't be able to sneak up on him.

Not that Malcolm needs to. He can best Matt in h2h.

Constantine Drakon snuck up on Oliver in the first episode. Chyna did it. So it happened in season 1. Those scenes are all from later seasons. And the Hand Ninjas have a level of stealth nobody on Arrow has displayed so far, erasing their heartbeats and the sounds of their movements.

And Malcolm is not beating Matt in hand-to-hand combat.

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Nobu flips a skilled fighter while barely touching him, and precisely strikes him in the face while he is still airborne with enough force to knock him away several feet. He proves in this one movement a skill accuracy with his hits, timing and strength, we've really never seen from Malcolm additionally he is faster and more agile and Daredevil is going toe-to-toe with him by the end of the second season. Once even surprising him with his improved skill to the point Nobu is barely able to land a hit on him.

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#107 Posted by depinhom (13506 posts) - - Show Bio

Merlyn.

Close.

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#108 Edited by lubub55 (12991 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm. To beat him you need to be at least as good as season 1 Oliver, and Matt isn't quite there yet.

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#109 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt.

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#110 Posted by jayc1324 (26432 posts) - - Show Bio

Still don't think Matt is able to beat Malcolm but he did get a lot closer but the end of season 2.

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#111 Posted by Nefarious (35677 posts) - - Show Bio

Merlyn wins both rounds. I'll have to see how much Daredevil has improved in Season 3 (TBA).

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#112 Posted by the_wspanialy (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Propably Matthew.

Round 2: Malcolm. It's not a stomp but it's not exactly close either.

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#113 Posted by SpiderFan130666 (834 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil.

Better fighter, better gear, enhanced senses and to be blunt, better character.

No more need be said.

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#114 Posted by TheSuperor (6975 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil.

Better fighter, better gear, enhanced senses and to be blunt, better character.

No more need be said.

Baton>Bow and arrows + sword?

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#115 Posted by SpiderFan130666 (834 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesuperor: It's not JUST a baton. It's a baton that extends into a quarterstaff, can be split into two sections (kalis), has a grappling rope which can also be used to strangle opponents and is made out of carbon steel fibre, making it nearly unbreakable.

So Daredevil's Billy Club>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bows and arrows + sword.

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#116 Posted by buildhare (8866 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil>Jefferson>Merlyn after tonight's episode of LoT.

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#117 Posted by lubub55 (12991 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil>Jefferson>Merlyn after tonight's episode of LoT.

What happened on it?

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#118 Posted by buildhare (8866 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55 said:
@buildhare said:

Daredevil>Jefferson>Merlyn after tonight's episode of LoT.

What happened on it?

Lots of timey wimey stuff so they ended up having two sets of legends in the same place, Merlyn tries to shoot Stein, one Jefferson takes the arrow to the chest and dies, while the other stabs Merlyn with one of his own arrows and knocks him out with a punch.

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#119 Posted by lubub55 (12991 posts) - - Show Bio
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#120 Posted by buildhare (8866 posts) - - Show Bio
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#121 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55 said:

@buildhare: Without Firestorm powers?

To be fair, Malcolm was distracted by being about to kill Stein, so Jax kinda took a cheapshot on him. But it was kinda dumb

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#122 Edited by AllStarSuperman (43763 posts) - - Show Bio

To be fair Merlyn has a weakness to a stab the leg punch the face combo. Matt still loses.

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#123 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

To be fair Merlyn has a weakness to a stab the leg punch the face combo. Matt still loses.

You're not wrong there

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#124 Posted by lubub55 (12991 posts) - - Show Bio
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Malcolm beats him through the power of song.

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#125 Posted by deactivated-59d29c479f1ca (4066 posts) - - Show Bio

Merlyn wins both rounds.

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#126 Posted by SpiderFan130666 (834 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Also, Jax didn't punch him. He hit Merlyn with his own bow. It's easy to miss, but he didn't pick it up for nothing.

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#127 Edited by Mutant1230 (7002 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Merlyn wins

Round 2: Merlyn stomps

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#128 Posted by AngelJax (11911 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Daredevil due to his suit giving him added durability to his already impressive damage soak.

Malcolm is likely more skilled than Matt, but he isn't so far off that it's a definitive win for either side. But Matt's impressed me more so, him.

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#129 Posted by lubub55 (12991 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Malcolm.

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#130 Posted by deactivated-5bb6a6f86dc65 (4972 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm both rounds, Matt is imo the worst live-action street leveler (not including Kick-Ass, and yes I think he's worse than Catwoman).

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#131 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt both rounds.

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#132 Posted by Arcus1 (27819 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump in honor of Defenders (which I've only seen a few fights from but oh well)

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#133 Posted by lubub55 (12991 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#134 Posted by RBT (29972 posts) - - Show Bio

R1 is a tossup. Could go either way. Same with R2. Merlyn takes it if he has a sword though.

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#135 Edited by ganon15 (7296 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt now, for each round.

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#136 Posted by DSTREET45 (5320 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt

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#137 Edited by DanielDaRipper (5902 posts) - - Show Bio

Merlyn

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#138 Edited by TheKinfing (11906 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt and I don't think is that close either.

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#139 Posted by deactivated-5d01cd4d1eb4b (2650 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt is more parkour and greater senses so he wins in h2h, with gear.. hmmm idk

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#140 Posted by modernww2fare (7397 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt comfortably

Online
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#141 Posted by lubub55 (12991 posts) - - Show Bio

Merlyn with gear.

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#142 Posted by TonyMartial (10280 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: What makes u think he takes him in H2H? What feat?

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#143 Posted by RBT (29972 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: What makes u think he takes him in H2H? What feat?

Not any one feat. A collection of them. They are comparable in skill while Merlyn has stats and speed advantage.

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#144 Posted by ANTHP2000 (30436 posts) - - Show Bio

Murdock beats his arse in R1. Malcolm takes R2.

Online
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#145 Posted by TonyMartial (10280 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Oh can you post them please, I'm not looking to start a debate I just want to see them.

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#146 Edited by deactivated-5c830d4e319e6 (4952 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt comfortably in any scenario.

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#147 Posted by RBT (29972 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Oh can you post them please, I'm not looking to start a debate I just want to see them.

Stats, speed of skill?

Matt is likely slightly more skilled. Maybe.

Matt's best skill feat is outskilling Black Sky, someone capable of cutting down 10 Hand ninjas while surrounded. Merlyn's best feat is stomping Nyssa, someone capable of cutting down 6 LoA ninjas while surrounded. Elektra took on 4 more fodders than Nyssa did, but LoA ninjas also have better skill and speed showings than Hand ninjas(as well as better statements about their capabilities). On top of that, Merlyn also performed better against Nyssa than Matt did against Elektra. I think Merlyn and Matt are extremely close in skill. With either of them having an edge depending on how wide you think the gap is between LoA and Hand fodders.

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#148 Posted by TonyMartial (10280 posts) - - Show Bio
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#150 Edited by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt wins round 1. Matt's fights with Black Sky in the restaurant & hallway are out of Merlyn's capability to replicate and Nyssa isn't really any better than Danny and Matt treated him more or less the same way Merlyn treats Nyssa. Merlyn's best 2v1 feat was against S1 Diggle and Oliver. S1 Diggle wasn't impressive at all I'd put Matt's feats Bakuto and Murakami above it especially since he held both of em much longer than the former. Merlyn may have slightly better physicals but Matt's comparable enough especially with the skill gap.

Merlyn could win Round 2 due to gear, however not sure