Daredevil(MCU) Vs Grant Ward

@abraham700: You should put that in spoilers, maybe.

Matt should win all rounds

Ward, Matt is not on the level of the AoS high tiers.

Matt

Matt.

Matt wins the first 2 rounds, 7/10.

Ward takes the third, 7/10.

S1 Matt is embarrassingly below Ward. S2 is probably on level with him in most scenarios, would still favor Ward for a majority. Post-Defenders, DD is impressive enough to win every round that doesn't involve Ward's full gear.

Daredevil all rounds.

Even in S1 Matt was doing shit Ward can't. Current Daredevil vs Ward is a borderline stomp.

@rbt: You mean like struggling against thugs and getting tagged in every single fight? Yeah, that's way out of Ward's paygrade.

Matt in a good fight.

Credit where credit is due, Ward does struggling against fodders quite well. I don't think Matt beat him there, tbh.

@rbt:

Difference being that Ward fights fodder way beyond the garbadge thugs Matt was having a consistent bad hair day against.

I'd like to note Agents with their standard gear consistently face situation that no one on Netflix except the Black Sky or Luke Cage could even hope to survive.

Ward's hallway scene being an example.

I think he means like speed and agility wise.

@danieldaripper:

Agility sure, speed is Ward's game against S1 Matt.

As for the fight I'd probably give to Matt tbh. Matt's stats are more rounded with superior skill.

I remember Matt deflected an arrow with his eskrima stick, has Ward done anything similar to that? Also Matt tends to blend his agility and speed together leading to better aim dodging feats. I just don't see Ward pulling aim dodging of this level off.

@danieldaripper:

He did arrow time in S1, but since when is arrow timing that impressive?

No one even had bullet timing feats on Netflix until The Defenders. AoS had Creel with his reactionary metahuman absorbing powers that May bypassed through her combat speed, which is frankly a better showing of speed than Matt outmaneuvering the Black Sky not going all out.

This scene alone is speed and awareness beyond most of Matt's showings.

Ward notices 5-6 men getting in and just before finishing his drink, breaks the glass on one of them, notices the one far behind trying to shoot and picks up the tray without looking to deflect the bullets while using the guy behind him to shoot another one.

Then he flips behind the table with gunfire after him while still accurate enough to land a headshot and a disarm before casually dealing with the rest armed dudes.

Again, keep in mind that these guys are not the garbadge thugs Matt is struggling against in S1. They're trained soldiers handpicked to build the New HYDRA.

@anthp2000:

He did arrow time in S1, but since when is arrow timing that impressive?

It's a speed showing that I haven't seen Ward accomplish. There were many factors to Matt's arrow timing feat as well, he had to track and coordinate where to throw his eskrima stick.

No one even had bullet timing feats on Netflix until The Defenders. AoS had Creel with his reactionary metahuman absorbing powers that May bypassed through her combat speed, which is frankly a better showing of speed than Matt outmaneuvering the Black Sky not going all out.

Matt actually bullet timed in the first episode of season 1 though we don't bring it up because it's not exactly consistent to his reaction speed. I think Creel's powers reaction speed worked to varying degrees, many lower characters have by passed it as well..

This scene alone is speed and awareness beyond most of Matt's showings.

I don't think that scene was any different from what Matt did hear.

Granted this was off screen it's heavily implied that he was dodging their gunfire since we hear multiple gun shots but yet Matt is shown untagged. Also while yes these were cops rather than Hydra agents they were still good enough shots being able to quickly clear a room full of FBI agents. At the end of the day as long as they were accurate enough to hit shots I don't think labels of the shooters matter when discussing aim dodging feats

@danieldaripper:

I only recall him intercepting an arrow from Stick in S1, I don't remember the instance you're referring to. Regardless, arrow timing doesn't put him above Ward. If you can keep up with a bullet timer, you can react to an arrow.

Matt didn't bullet time in the first episode. That's about as legimate as Cap and Arrow's "bullet timing". It's aim dodging at most.

Who else has bypassed Creel's reactionary absorbing powers other than May?

That's nowhere near as impressive as Ward's sequence on my book. That aim dodging was in large part because of Matt's agility. Speed is different. And despite not having enhanse sensory like Matt, Ward demonstrated awareness and combat speed well above most of Matt's scenes there, blocking and dodging gunfire whilst shooting and taking down armed guys shooting at him simultaneously, grabbing objects without even looking etc.

@anthp2000:

I only recall him intercepting an arrow from Stick in S1, I don't remember the instance you're referring to. Regardless, arrow timing doesn't put him above Ward. If you can keep up with a bullet timer, you can react to an arrow.

Yeah I was talking about that one.

Matt didn't bullet time in the first episode. That's about as legimate as Cap and Arrow's "bullet timing". It's aim dodging at most.

It was here.

Who else has bypassed Creel's reactionary absorbing powers other than May?

IIRC Ruby did.

That's nowhere near as impressive as Ward's sequence on my book. That aim dodging was in large part because of Matt's agility. Speed is different. And despite not having enhanse sensory like Matt, Ward demonstrated awareness and combat speed well above most of Matt's scenes there, blocking and dodging gunfire whilst shooting and taking down armed guys shooting at him simultaneously, grabbing objects without even looking etc.

Wouldn't what you said make Matt's scene better? He had no cover or anything to shield the bullets so he use his raw speed and agility to maneuver around them. And considering how spread out the cops were it would seem they could've covered more area and gave Matt less cover to work with.

Ward hardly struggles though. Don't confuse getting tagged a few times as struggling. Ward knows he can take what most of his opponents throw at him so he doesn't stress too much on going through fights untouched. Matt legit scrambles and makes every effort keeping thugs and common criminals down.

Agility isn't Ward's forte, doesn't mean he can't be at times though. Besides, agility isn't that huge of an advantage for Matt since Ward was consistently overpowering someone who is arguably more agile and skilled than Matt is

Matt probably has better raw reflexes yeah, I could agree there. But Ward scales to May and Bobbi who are extremely fast combatants themselves

Matt got this.

Maybe Ward could win round 3 but Matt solidly takes the others.

@angeljax:

Ward hardly struggles though. Don't confuse getting tagged a few times as struggling. Ward knows he can take what most of his opponents throw at him so he doesn't stress too much on going through fights untouched. Matt legit scrambles and makes every effort keeping thugs and common criminals down.

Matt gets a lot of shit for a fight that happened off-screen. And he doesn't get enough credit for other showings. His biggest problem was his inability to take on multiple opponents at once. That doesn't mean he could not take on a skilled person in 1v1. He took on Stick just fine, even in season 1. Heck, even back in season 1, he could fodderize cops in ways Ward can't.

@anthp2000: One correction, those guys that Ward was fighting weren't a part of the new HYDRA. The new HYDRA was Ward's faction. Those guys were part of HYDRA's old guard, the soldiers of Gideon Malick. Still some of the best trained soldiers in the world, just wanted to point that out.

@danieldaripper:

And why is that instance above Ward? People he can keep up with have timed missles, RPGs, surprise TK attacks, thrown knives etc. casually.

I now the instance. That's not bullet timing. It needs to be rather cut clear.

Still haven't caught up with AoS but IIRC Ruby litteraly sliced down Yo-Yo's arms mid-blitz, so if she did, it is perfectly consistent. May's the only one I've seen doing it to date. And she did it twice.

No it wouldn't. If Ward had Matt's agility it would be pretty easy to clear that scene you're showing. It doesn't make the battlefield awareness or aim dodging better. Ward didn't even have enhansed sensory like Matt and he still ultised the environment while dealing with attacks from multiple sides and precisely taking out the targets. I don't know how anyone can look at the 2 scenes and consider Matt's more impressive.

Bump

Peak Matt would stomp obviously, but current Matt v Ward would actually be a half decent fight.

Daredevil mops the floor with him. The only way Ward wins is if he lands shots in R3.

@rbt: @anthp2000: Daredevil get's his ass handed to him. Beating fodder that claire beat as a nurse is not impressive. Wank all you like...he's not on tier.

Hell...based on DD vs Kingpin, MACK would stomp him. This isn't close. Never has been.

Okay.

Matt would beat 2 Wards in his prime

DD in his prime. Ward would beat the most recent version of DD.

Honestly Ward loses, but based on Mack's showings in S5/S6, I can agree with the statement that Mack could beat Matt, at least without the armor. He's just too much of a tank at this point.

Prime Daredevil wins first two rounds. Current Daredevil loses.

Ward shoots Matt in Round 3.

Matt first two rounds. Ward caps him in round 3.

You could exclude Matt to feats from any season of Daredevil or just Defenders feats and he'd still beat Ward.

Ward beats current Matt but prime DD should take him after a moderately good fight.

Matt wins round 1 and 2.

Lose in round 3.

Ward takes this, top MCU male fighter

AoS characters are pretty lowballed here and in Reddit

Bump