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#51 Posted by BleachHub (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el: you don’t need to die for izanagi to work, it’s an activated jutsu.

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#52 Posted by BleachHub (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: he’d just come back from soul suck via izanagi or kotoamatsukami him during the soul suck and then one shot. And being comparable in speed or faster than MS Sasuke gives him enough to win against pain

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#53 Posted by Zuriel-el (3428 posts) - - Show Bio

@foxerdes: it won't work due to peins rinnegan.

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#54 Posted by Zuriel-el (3428 posts) - - Show Bio

@bleachhub: when susanoo grabbed danzou it didn't activate until sasuke crushed him.

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#55 Edited by AlexTheBoss (18657 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous: Karin isn't very strong, what does kicking he prove?

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#56 Posted by BleachHub (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el: thats just when he decided to activate it, for the purpose of deceiving and confusing Sasuke.

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#57 Posted by Anomalous (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: That he can ragdoll a grown person sprinting at him and send them flying in the opposite direction with enough force that the impact creates a cloud of debris? It's not like base Naruto has godly strength either. How is pain stalemating him in taijutsu much more impressive?

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#58 Edited by AlexTheBoss (18657 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous:

Considering kid Sasuke did this

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and kid Naruto did this

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That he can ragdoll a grown person sprinting at him and send them flying in the opposite direction with enough force that the impact creates a cloud of debris?

This really isn't that impressive.

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#59 Posted by Anomalous (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: Hmm? Saying Danzo's kick isn't impressive due to karin's lack of feats but then using a feat where Sasuke kicks some random animal. /thinking

That's also not base kid Naruto. He doesn't dream of doing that without some of kurama's power.

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#60 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18657 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous: I'm not saying it isn't impressive, I'm saying that ragdolling a grown person springing at him isn't impressive in the Naruto verse. Bringing scaling into it is a different story. Danzo probably has low to mid kage level taijutsu. Nothing Pain shouldn't be able to deal with, especially if we use anime feats.

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#61 Posted by Anomalous (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: Regardless, I don't even believe taijutsu is how Danzo wins. He can use all of his ninjutsu as well. It's pain who will only have taijutsu while his powers are recovering.

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#62 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18657 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous: If Pain can tank a beast bomb from 6 tails Naruto, I don't see how Danzo is putting him down. If we go by the anime he had a continuos fight with 4 and 6 tails Naruto, where Naruto couldn't put him down, and if we go by video game cutscenes Orochimaru wasn't able to beat Deva path, and Orochimaru should be Danzo tier.

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#63 Posted by Anomalous (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: Video games aren't canon, but I know the cutscene you're talking about and it was the saddest attempt ever from Orochimaru. Literally just tried to slither in and blitz him lmao.

Danzo can also just paralyze him and summon Baku to enhance his wind style. That allowed him to get through a completed half-body susanoo which should have AT LEAST as much durability as pain:

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#64 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18657 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous: Maybe, but if we use the anime fight scenes of Deva path vs 4 and 6 tail Naruto, I think Danzo is kind of screwed. Manga wise Deva path would need to rely more on his other abilities, but it is also in character for him to use planetary devastation right when he is overwhelmed in the manga.

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#65 Posted by Anomalous (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous: Maybe, but if we use the anime fight scenes of Deva path vs 4 and 6 tail Naruto, I think Danzo is kind of screwed.

In the anime he didn't even tank the beast bomb directly. Just the shockwave. Didn't bring that up earlier because to be fair the anime does take liberties with things that aren't made clear in the manga (*cough* light speed reactions from Naruto *cough*)

@anomalous: it is also in character for him to use planetary devastation right when he is overwhelmed in the manga.

But in this fight the second he's overwhelmed is the second he loses. He'll be thinking he's won and then next thing he knows he either gets 1 shot from behind or can't move because of a paralysis seal.

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#66 Posted by Zuriel-el (3428 posts) - - Show Bio

@bleachhub: Then how come when the hawk cut his arm of with his own shuriken it didn't activate. @alextheboss: funny how people think pain will lose to someone sasuje beat. @anomalous:

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#67 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8932 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el: He only lost cause of plot, Sauce would give Pain a run

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#68 Posted by Anomalous (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el: It's not as simple as Pain > Sasuke > Danzo OVERALL....

Izanagi is a really strong counter to Deva path in a 1v1 and I already showed why there isn't much difference in their speed or physical strength

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#69 Posted by kgb725 (19576 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: he’d just come back from soul suck via izanagi or kotoamatsukami him during the soul suck and then one shot. And being comparable in speed or faster than MS Sasuke gives him enough to win against pain

He has nothing to 1 shot him with. Also he kept up with V1 Bee and Kcm Naruto

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#70 Posted by Zuriel-el (3428 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous: It is that simple, pain is a sensor, danzou isnt going to do jack, when the sages gathered chakra for their genjutsu, having suffered it once he knew what they were doing and avoided it by killing them. Taijutsu wuse pain is superior to kakashi, heck sneaking up on pain didn't work out for kakashi niether will it work out for danzou. Besides not many moves from danzou can kill pain, he is too durable. @precrisisbardock: lol sasuke woukd be one shotted by pain and im being generous.

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#71 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8932 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el: Sasuke is being one shotted by pain lmao.

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#72 Edited by BleachHub (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:
@bleachhub said:

@kgb725: he’d just come back from soul suck via izanagi or kotoamatsukami him during the soul suck and then one shot. And being comparable in speed or faster than MS Sasuke gives him enough to win against pain

He has nothing to 1 shot him with. Also he kept up with V1 Bee and Kcm Naruto

His wind jutsu would bisect any path of pain. And that was Nagato after he stole some of bee and Naruto's chakra. That wouldn't scale to the 6 paths of pain

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#73 Posted by kgb725 (19576 posts) - - Show Bio

@bleachhub: hes not getting caught with that. Nagato is Pain the only difference is his rinnegan is stronger. He caught them and took their chakra when he was crippled

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#74 Edited by Anomalous (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el said:

@anomalous: It is that simple, pain is a sensor.

No he isn't. Nagato is, but the pains themselves can not sense chakra. If they could why the hell would they have had to search the hidden leaf for Naruto before flattening it? They'd know immediately he isn't there.

@zuriel-el said:

danzou isnt going to do jack, when the sages gathered chakra for their genjutsu, having suffered it once he knew what they were doing and avoided it by killing them

How is that even slightly relevant? This is why you think he can sense chakra? They were making gestures with their hands and said out loud "all right! Let's go for it" when they were done. Couldn't have been any more obvious.

@anomalous: Taijutsu wuse pain is superior to kakashi, heck sneaking up on pain didn't work out for kakashi niether will it work out for danzou.

1. Kakashi and Pain never once clashed with taijutsu, and even if they did it wouldn't mean much. At this point in the series Kakashi was already nothing special... Yes he's strong by jonin standards but everyone else in the discussion is well above average Kage level.

2. Pain's taijutsu was equal to BASE naruto. Maybe just very slightly better. Being extremely generous let's say base Naruto could trade blows with MS Sasuke (he couldn't) and that makes Pain/Danzo close to equal:

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@zuriel-el said:

Besides not many moves from danzou can kill pain, he is too durable.

Not many moves from Pain can kill Danzo... Oh, I mean just about all of them can but it won't do anything since he can rewrite reality and pretend fatal blows never happened for 10 minutes straight. These are the only 2 options Danzo needs to defeat pain:

  • Paralysis and dismemberment.
  • Summoning Baku then 1 shotting with literally any wind jutsu. I mean just scroll up to see him destroying the entire back of a completed half-susanoo.

If pain fights completely out of character and uses chibaku straight off the bat, then I'd argue Danzo goes completely out of character and kills himself to trigger Izanagi. This is even assuming that chibaku wouldn't crush him to death which there's no real reason it shouldn't other than using Kurama's durability as a baseline...

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#75 Posted by deactivated-5d065fa72d466 (2222 posts) - - Show Bio

Pain stomps

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#76 Edited by BleachHub (268 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: his wind jutsu can press and tag MS sasuke who can dodge V2 bee’s lariat. What speed feats does pain/nagato have that suggest he can dodge any of his wind jutsu? And Nagato should be physically more powerful and the paths of pain, considering he doesn’t have to split up his chakra between six different bodies. And he could only tag them and steal their chakra, was because they both lunged at him and made it way too easy. He didn’t really even tag them technically.

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#77 Posted by ShuraGam (428 posts) - - Show Bio

lol pain slaughters.

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#78 Posted by Zuriel-el (3428 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous: Regardless danzou has six pains to kill.

1. Yes the did and kakashi complained about pains speed. And got stabbed with a black rod before he could swing a chidori. Plus kakashi beat MS sasuke at taijutsu.

2. Pain weakened was equal to base naruto, pain with hispower back was able to duke it out with six tail naruto. Not to mention the only reason sage naruto beat him at taijutsu was due to superior strength.

And why is danzou so special to you, his taijutsu feats are what now? And what makes ms sasuke so great, he lost to danzou, lost to raikage, lost to kakashi... Bro for the love of eba.

.paralysis that only works if he touches pain, paralysis weaklings like ms sasuje broke via sheer will. Good luck with that.

.chukushodo (animal realm) summons a plethora of beasts that eat baku. Besides shinra tensei, plus danzou wont have a susanoo to hide behind to avoid bakus suction power, it would be suicide.

Dude, the moment danzou comesback with izanagi, and takes one pain down, pain will become aware of him and whip him again, if he does come back again, pain would settle for incap, ie put stakes in him and leave him on the ground unable to move or use handseals, or control his chakra properly.

@precrisisbardock: yes he would be. CT is not something sasuke walks away from.

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#79 Edited by Anomalous (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el said:

@anomalous: Regardless danzou has six pains to kill.

@anomalous said:

1 - Pain stomps

2 - Danzo stomps

I never said Danzo beats all 6 at once. Of course he doesn't. Talking about the 1v1 against Deva.

@zuriel-el said:

1. Yes the did and kakashi complained about pains speed. And got stabbed with a black rod before he could swing a chidori. Plus kakashi beat MS sasuke at taijutsu.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/422 Read 422 and 423 then tell me what page Pain used taijutsu against Kakashi.

@zuriel-el said:

2. Pain weakened was equal to base naruto, pain with hispower back was able to duke it out with six tail naruto. Not to mention the only reason sage naruto beat him at taijutsu was due to superior strength.

First of all, we have no reason to believe Deva's taijutsu is any worse while he's recharging. Do the other paths get weaker during that time? No. The "weakness" effect is isolated to his ability to push/pull

Second, he did not compete against six tail Naruto with taijutsu. lol do you even know what taijutsu is? Hand to hand combat. Hell even his push wasn't enough to overpower Naruto

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@zuriel-el said:

And why is danzou so special to you

He isn't. I just think he wins this 1v1

@zuriel-el said:

And what makes ms sasuke so great, he lost to danzou, lost to raikage, lost to kakashi... Bro for the love of eba.

Again.... ABC logic for their overall power does not work in this fight. I don't disagree that sage mode Naruto > Pain > MS Sasuke > Danzo. Danzo has 10 minute long Izanagi though and that hard counters the character who can 1 shot him in multiple ways but has a decently long recovery period afterwards. What's hard to understand about that? Sometimes you have to think a little bit deeper than "x beat y in the manga"

@zuriel-el said:

.paralysis that only works if he touches pain, paralysis weaklings like ms sasuje broke via sheer will. Good luck with that.

Wtf is a "paralysis weakling"??? And no, he didn't break out via sheer will. He broke out with his eyes by using susanoo. I've shown above that Danzo should have no trouble touching pain. He grabbed Sasuke's throat and pain isn't fast enough to blitz base Naruto. You're delusional if you think base Naruto > MS Sasuke in terms of reaction time/speed.

@zuriel-el said:

.chukushodo (animal realm) summons a plethora of beasts that eat baku. Besides shinra tensei, plus danzou wont have a susanoo to hide behind to avoid bakus suction power, it would be suicide.

Once again, I never said Danzo beats the 6 paths together. Lol shinra? Hello? My entire argument is that Danzo wins while his powers are recharging. It doesn't matter if Danzo kills himself because, you know, Izanagi.

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#80 Edited by Zuriel-el (3428 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous:

okay then here we go.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/420/7

Couldn't hit pain.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/422/10

Couldn't hit pain.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/420/6

He got stabbed by pain.

(taijutsu... Kakashi lost and resorted to ninjutsu)

2. I saud duke it out, i never said taijutsu, if he could battle and beat six tail naruto (who would stomp danzou) he will beat danzou no problem. In terms of speed he should be above danzous ball park as six tail naruto couldnt blitz him and utterly lost to him (chibaku tensei).

Does his shinra tensei not overpowering naruto help danzou?

3. Danzou will lose, like every other person who ever tried sneaking up on pain.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/422/18

Failure.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/423/6

Failure

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/423/7

And Failure.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/423/8

And even more Failure.

Even with the aid off a screen of dust kakashi couldn't hit him. How will danzou.

Kakashi needed a team to hold him still in order to do jack to him. Does danzou have a team.

4. https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/477/14

Danzou vs sasuke in a trade off got his arm cut off and got bisected and couldn't do jack to save himself. How is he superior in taijutsu to sasuke or pain.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/478/8

How does kicking karin make him superior in taijutsu, if its strength then tsunade and sakura are the best at taijutsu at this point then.

His susano was activated before the seal broke, he didn't break it with susanoo, or sharingan. Seals genetically are broken with sheer power (like how naruto broke irukas seal). Thats what i meant by will. Its not activating susano that did it

Again grabbing someones throat and then getting cut in two isn't a great feat, ms sasuke can't blitz base naruto either, pain was weakened at the time tendou wasn't at full strength, Pain didn't get blitzed by naruto in their battle either, when he got his power back he was able to completely overwhelm naruto and he did this.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/435/14

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/435/15

Once this happens danzou wont be able to control chakra, same thing happened to jiraiya.

even six tail naruto whose speed is above sasuke's and danzou's couldn't blitz pain. And stop acting like taijutsu is what settles this fight. Danzou can't kill pain with any jutsu in his arsenal and pain just has to incap him like he did the toads and call it a day.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/435/10

Incap. Break every bone in his body.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/479/5

Injury doesn't activate izanagi and the moment danzou kills himself, pain will knoamw something is up. And being on guard he will use shinra tensei to send danzoj flying the instant he appears and then banshou tennin to control danzou. Once danzou is down he can incap him like he did naruto.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/381/3

Danzou wont be able to control his chakra, hence no jutsu and unlike Jiraiya and Naruto who had help nobody will be coming to help.

Basically either pain hold danzou with banshou tennin and stabs him with black rods to end the fight, Or he breaks danzou with shinra tensei and stabs him with black rods to end the fight.

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#81 Posted by ourmanuel (12318 posts) - - Show Bio

Pain shitstomps so bad

Round 1 is just a clear mismatch

Edit: danzo could easily win by using koto on the deva path, but that’s a cheap argument

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#82 Edited by Anomalous (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el:

1. Reaction feats (dodging) are not taijutsu feats.

2. Stabbing someone with a weapon isn't an impressive taijutsu showing.

3. I really need you to understand that Kakashi is borderline fodder to everyone else being discussed here. Remember how after his fight with Danzo, Sasuke (who was severely injured and fatigued) still was about to stomp a fresh Kakashi until Naruto stepped in? He's not even close to one of the strongest characters by Pain arc and feats against him don't mean much of anything. You're asking "if a jonin can't do it how could someone stronger than most Kage do it?" Not even worth my time going through those.

@zuriel-el said:

2. I saud duke it out, i never said taijutsu, if he could battle and beat six tail naruto (who would stomp danzou) he will beat danzou no problem.

I don't get why you keep trying to use general ABC logic without considering the specific counters they have to each other. If pain beat a God tier like Juubito then, sure, you could do that. These characters aren't miles apart in power/speed/hax though so you need to use your brain and think about how it would really play out. Does Danzo fight the same as 6 tail Naruto and does 6 tail Naruto fight the same as Pain? No. They are all strong in very different ways.

@zuriel-el said:

In terms of speed he should be above danzous ball park as six tail naruto couldnt blitz him and utterly lost to him (chibaku tensei).

6 tail Naruto's only feats are against Pain with nothing tangible to scale him off of (like a bolt of lightning) so if anything that just means 6 tail Naruto isn't as fast as you think. "Pain is faster than the character who's almost as fast as Pain". Ok?

@zuriel-el said:

3. Danzou will lose, like every other person who ever tried sneaking up on pain.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/422/18

Failure.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/423/6

Failure

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/423/7

And Failure.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/423/8

And even more Failure.

Even with the aid off a screen of dust kakashi couldn't hit him. How will danzou.

Kakashi needed a team to hold him still in order to do jack to him. Does danzou have a team.

How are any of these supposed to be impressive? Like I said above, these characters are fodder to Pain and also be fodder to MS Sasuke, Danzo and sage mode Naruto. Their failure to sneak up on Pain means nothing here.

@zuriel-el said:

Danzou vs sasuke in a trade off got his arm cut off and got bisected and couldn't do jack to save himself. How is he superior in taijutsu to sasuke or pain.

He's faster. Sasuke could dodge Bee's Lariat (which is about as fast as non-jobbing Raikage) but not Danzo's taijutsu. Pain couldn't even blitz base Naruto. MS Sasuke is far superior to base Naruto in terms of reactions. Please comprehend the scaling here so I don't have to repeat myself again for like a 5th time. By feats Danzo clearly has the faster combat speed.

@zuriel-el said:

How does kicking karin make him superior in taijutsu, if its strength then tsunade and sakura are the best at taijutsu at this point then.

1. Yes it is strength. Not crazily impressive but it puts him on Pain's level at least. The Naruto choke slam wasn't any more forceful than that kick.

2. What do Tsunade and Sakura have to do with anything? Yeah they're both physically stronger than Danzo and Pain. Unsure how that matters right now.

ms sasuke can't blitz base naruto either

Lmao yes MS Sasuke can absolutely blitz base Naruto. Matter of fact if his eyes weren't shot after fighting Danzo he would have killed Naruto, Kakashi and Sakura right then and there since (for some reason) Naruto didn't use sage mode. Base Naruto is an equal to an extremely tired Sasuke when he can't use sharingan.

@zuriel-el said:

pain was weakened at the time tendou wasn't at full strength, Pain didn't get blitzed by naruto in their battle either, when he got his power back he was able to completely overwhelm naruto

I already explained that while his power is recovering nothing else seems to be affected. Not the other Pains and not Deva's speed/reactions/physicals/etc.

At no point in the fight did Pain "completely overwhelm" Naruto. He killed the frog and then used bansho while Naruto (base Naturo btw. Just had the last of his sage chakra drained at that point) was catching the corpse.

@zuriel-el said:

even six tail naruto whose speed is above sasuke's and danzou's couldn't blitz pain.

What is the speed feat you think is so impressive for 6 tail Naruto?

@zuriel-el said:

And stop acting like taijutsu is what settles this fight. Danzou can't kill pain with any jutsu in his arsenal and pain just has to incap him like he did the toads and call it a day.

If Pain tries bansho I don't see why that wouldn't enhance wind style in the same way Baku's suction does. Danzo can even use some without hand signs

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@zuriel-el said:

Injury doesn't activate izanagi and the moment danzou kills himself, pain will knoamw something is up. And being on guard he will use shinra tensei to send danzoj flying the instant he appears and then banshou tennin to control danzou.

1. That injury was from while he had Izanagi turned off to conserve chakra. Reading comprehension please

2. Pain kills Danzo or Danzo kills himself -> Pain pushes if he for some reason expects the person he just killed to appear behind him -> (the step you conveniently left out) Pain's powers go on cooldown.

@zuriel-el said:

Danzou wont be able to control his chakra, hence no jutsu and unlike Jiraiya and Naruto who had help nobody will be coming to help.

The thing is he KILLED Jiraiya when he stabbed a bunch of chakra receivers into him. The only reason Naruto wasn't killed is because Pain purposely avoided vital spots. He was only trying to capture alive. I don't see why, without knowledge, he'd go for incap against Danzo in the first place.

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#83 Posted by Zuriel-el (3428 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous: I'm getting sick of you. Honestly, when you don't want to admit to something you just... Lowball, lie and talk nonsense serously think of this as a battle and use words you understand).

1. Reaction, dodging an attack by moving your is taijutsu. Pain did this.

2. Evading kakashi (gais rival) and stabing him before he can swing his arm is impressive, considering what happens to others who attack kakashi when he is holding chidori. (their hands tend to fall off).

3. Karin healed him and zetsu already restored his chakra at the five kage summit. He wasn't fatigued. At the end of his fight with danzou, karin also heales him again restoring his chakra (karin restores ppls chakra when she heals them) And he didn't stomp anything or anyone , sakura is the one who needed saving, not kakshi.

Ps. What do you gain from lying?

4. Wow.... Okay, I will explain this so you understand, kakashi is about as fast as orochimaru, said orochimaru was blitzted by three tails naruto, kakashi and ms sasuke fall into the same ball park in terms of raw speed. Taijutsu wise Kakashi is gais rival (gai is better though), ie kakashi is better than sasuke at hand to hand, same kakashi failed to touch pain, when they both struck at each other, pain was faster.

While kakashi would have problems with three tailed narutos speed as orochimaru did (ororchimaru got slapped without being able to react, and his arm was ripped off by three tails), pain battled six tails naruto to a stalemate (naruto never blitzed him, not once) and even defeated him, pain answered narutos speed with shinra tensei, a strategic retreat and chibaku tensei.

Now lets look at danzou, speed wise he isn't faster than sasuke, the guy got his arm chopped off and got cut in half at the same time and couldn't do jack.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/477/14

5. Zetsu already said pain (when he said naruto is stronger for beating pain) is stronger than sasuke, i choose to believe him over you, and sage mode naruto took down the third raikage... So much for ms sasukes imaginary superiority when he nearly died fighting the fourth raikage. The reason for posting those failures, is to show the futility of attacking pain from behind.

6. Bees lariato is not raikages speed level, (if you want to use double lariato as a reference, please recall both parties have to be at equal speed and power or the target only bends to one side, (they practiced on a dummy before their Ay-Bee combo was made), they wer not equal as raikage ragdolled sasuke when he hot seriou.

7. It did actually, cause the moment his power returned, naruto and the toads couldn't stand up to him at all.

B. What does impaling someone to the ground mean to you. Do you not know what it means to overwhelm someone? Naruto was standing right there and pain pulled fukasaku from a distance and naruto couldn't stop him or save fukasaku, fukasaku got stabbed and naruto couldn't cover the distance between them and pain tossed fukasaku at him, pulled him closer, grabbed him, slammed him into the ground and impaled him with rods.

8. The fact that four tails naruto would kill danzou and sasuke simultaneously. The fact that orochimaru couldn't dodge when naruto decided to slap him and six tails is faster and stronger and stronger and couldn't do jack to pain, even in speed naruto was matched and surpassed (couldn't catch pain when pain ran closer to home).

9. Banshou tennin wouldn't enhance wind jutsu because it is gravity not suction.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/423/5

And danzou won't be able to form seals. Consistently danzou uses seals for his jutsus. Plus in the first panel if you look closely at danzou, his hands are together (seals), second panel he is pulling air into his mouth, third panel sasuke dodges his jutsu. Now if pain sees a gay drawing in air like that you think pain wouldn't be suspicious. He has rinnegan (he can see chakra and has precog like sasuke does) it won't catch him off guard. He could even see the invisible barrier arround konoha.

10. No it wasn't. That was right before he summoned baku. And he activated izanagi before attacking at the beginning of battle, sasuke grabbed him amd squeezed.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/476/14

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/476/17

Turns out injuries don't make izanagi activate. 👎

11. You are not thinking...

# Senario 1. Lets assume upon encounter pain kills danzou.

Suddenly, Danzou's body disappears. (danzou always vanishes before reappearing.

Will pain not be on guard thinking it was a shadow clone and prepare to guard himself for when danzou pops out and attacks?

Kakashi tried something similar with a raikagebunshin and pain still dodged the attack coming from His blindspot.

# Senario 2. Danzou stabs himself... Pain has seen hidan. Suddenly danzou vanishes, pain will get suspicious and be on guard.

*** The only way danzou will pop out directly behind pain is if he dies very close to pain, like when sasuke squeezed him like an orange. Every other time he was a fair distance away.

*** if danzou dies near pain it would imply that he got stabbed ie

Tendo can shinra tensei upon his reappearance. A shinra tensei that can kill would have to be powerful enough to send a person quite a distance. (danzou consistently appeared around where he died).

Danzou will have to attack from afar, giving pain enough time to react. Seeing danzou vanish would be enough to make him cautious and check his surroundings.

12. After noting that he has killed danzou severally to no avail, he will opt for incap. It is the logical thing to do. Besides getting stabbed once didn't kill jiraiya. It was being impaled by six and then being rocket punched into the lake and drowning due to inability to move. Danzou will only be unable to use chakra and won't be able to move. Incap (paralysis) will not activate izanagi, sasuke proved this when he grabbed danzou. And chakra that isn't being controlled can't ne used for jutsu. So there.

Avatar image for anomalous
#84 Edited by Anomalous (644 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el said:

@anomalous: I'm getting sick of you. Honestly, when you don't want to admit to something you just... Lowball, lie and talk nonsense serously think of this as a battle and use words you understand).

Lol pretty ironic coming from the guy who pulls random scaling straight out of his ass. You sure you don't mean i should use words you can understand? Alright I'll try to dumb it down for you

@zuriel-el said:

1. Reaction, dodging an attack by moving your is taijutsu. Pain did this.

2. Evading kakashi (gais rival) and stabing him before he can swing his arm is impressive, considering what happens to others who attack kakashi when he is holding chidori. (their hands tend to fall off).

1. Movement is not taijutsu. Period. That's like saying jumping out of the way of a fireball is taijutsu. No. Faster =/= better at taijutsu by default.

2. Did we see Guy fighting Kakashi seriously in 7th gate or something? Oh that's right, he's extremely opposed to opening even the FIRST gate against comrades. Honesly how can you expect me to take you seriously? And AGAIN, just because Kakashi performs well when fighting jonin level and lower characters doesn't mean feats against him are impressive when discussing a battle between Kage level characters. Get it through your skull. Kakashi is not that strong.

@zuriel-el said:

3. Karin healed him and zetsu already restored his chakra at the five kage summit. He wasn't fatigued. At the end of his fight with danzou, karin also heales him again restoring his chakra (karin restores ppls chakra when she heals them) And he didn't stomp anything or anyone , sakura is the one who needed saving, not kakshi.

Sasuke wasn't tired? Really?

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Karin didn't heal him after Danzo fight either... She was face down in a pool of her own blood about to die. If you're going to accuse me of lying maybe you should know what you're talking about first. How's that sound?

@zuriel-el said:

4. Wow.... Okay, I will explain this so you understand, kakashi is about as fast as orochimaru

There you go making shit up again. Show me the scan where they fight

@zuriel-el said:

Now lets look at danzou, speed wise he isn't faster than sasuke, the guy got his arm chopped off and got cut in half at the same time and couldn't do jack.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/477/14

The point was that even with Sasuke's sharingan precog, Danzo landed the first hit with his bare hand faster than Sasuke could with a sword. That's an impressive speed feat. What happened afterward is irrelevant and in no way invalidates it.

@zuriel-el said:

5. Zetsu already said pain (when he said naruto is stronger for beating pain) is stronger than sasuke, i choose to believe him over you, and sage mode naruto took down the third raikage... So much for ms sasukes imaginary superiority when he nearly died fighting the fourth raikage. The reason for posting those failures, is to show the futility of attacking pain from behind.

How many times do I need to explain that general ABC logic does not work here? Idk if there's actually something wrong with you that you can't grasp the concept that it's more of a rock/paper/scissors type deal than rock/boulder/mountain or what. Either way I'm done responding to it.

(p.s. it was KCM1 Naruto that beat third raikage. Way to show yet again that you don't know wtf you're talking about)

@zuriel-el said:

6. Bees lariato is not raikages speed level, (if you want to use double lariato as a reference, please recall both parties have to be at equal speed and power or the target only bends to one side, (they practiced on a dummy before their Ay-Bee combo was made), they wer not equal as raikage ragdolled sasuke when he hot seriou.

So what you're saying is "Bee is not on raikage's speed level, but they have to be the same speed for double lariat"? /thinking

@zuriel-el said:

9. Banshou tennin wouldn't enhance wind jutsu because it is gravity not suction.

It pulls everything in the direction he's targetting towards him. Jutsu has mass so there's no reason it shouldn't be effected.

@zuriel-el said:

And danzou won't be able to form seals.

I knew you'd say that. That's why I gave an example of him using a jutsu without them. His hands are not making seals in the top pannel... you can clearly see his right arm down at his side.

@zuriel-el said:

10. No it wasn't. That was right before he summoned baku. And he activated izanagi before attacking at the beginning of battle, sasuke grabbed him amd squeezed.

And then he deactivated it while Sasuke was paralyzed to save chakra in case he had to fight Obito too. How can you be linking scans from the fight and still not know that? lmao

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@zuriel-el said:

11. You are not thinking...

# Senario 1. Lets assume upon encounter pain kills danzou.

Suddenly, Danzou's body disappears. (danzou always vanishes before reappearing.

Will pain not be on guard thinking it was a shadow clone and prepare to guard himself for when danzou pops out and attacks?

Kakashi tried something similar with a raikagebunshin and pain still dodged the attack coming from His blindspot.

Seriously, stop using Kakashi as an example. You're making a fool of yourself. "If an 8th grader can't knock out Mike Tyson how could Muhammad Ali?"

Izanagi is not even a little bit similar to shadow clones. It look like a real human when they die (because it is a real human really dying) and then almost instantly they reappear. The anime took liberties with the whole "body vanishes before reappearing" thing. Doesn't happen that way in the manga. Death -> Suddenly behind them

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@zuriel-el said:

# Senario 2. Danzou stabs himself... Pain has seen hidan. Suddenly danzou vanishes, pain will get suspicious and be on guard.

*** The only way danzou will pop out directly behind pain is if he dies very close to pain, like when sasuke squeezed him like an orange. Every other time he was a fair distance away.

*** if danzou dies near pain it would imply that he got stabbed ie

"Pain has seen Hidan". What are you even talking about? Hidan's immortality is nothing like Izanagi. Not in the slightest.

Danzo seems to be able to choose where he reappers. The slice through his arm was the closest kill and then he appeared further away in front of Sasuke

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And then there's the time when Obito appered behind Konan from hundreds of feet under the ocean. Unsure why you'd make up head cannon rules for Izanagi to limit its counter attack potential.

@zuriel-el said:

Tendo can shinra tensei upon his reappearance. A shinra tensei that can kill would have to be powerful enough to send a person quite a distance. (danzou consistently appeared around where he died).

SHINRA AND BANSHO HAVE A COOLDOWN. IZANAGI DOES NOT

@zuriel-el said:

12. After noting that he has killed danzou severally to no avail, he will opt for incap. It is the logical thing to do.

Pain won't get several chances to learn how Izanagi works. He doesn't have susanoo for blind spot protection or a sensory type like Karin to warn him where Danzo reappears (no the Pains themselves can not sense charkra; only Nagato). On top of that, Nagato isn't insanely smart so it's questionable that he'd be able to figure out what's going on. Sasuke didn't even think to go for incap until Izanagi wore off, and no matter what else you want to say about him he is quite good at coming up with battle strategies.

@zuriel-el said:

getting stabbed once didn't kill jiraiya. It was being impaled by six and then being rocket punched into the lake and drowning due to inability to move.

Jiraiya was 100% in the process of bleeding to death. He isn't going to just walk away with his arm ripped off and holes through his internal organs.

I'm done with this debate. Don't tag me again until you have something intelligent to say

Avatar image for ninjabot_85
#85 Posted by ninjabot_85 (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Giving Danzo the win. Defeating Pein relies on whether or not you can figure out the secrets of each of his bodies and take them out in the order that leads to a complete win. It wouldn't take long to realize which Path absorbs chakra, which one summons colossal animals, which one transforms and gains extra limbs and the like. The only one that will take him some time to learn would be the healing path, since it won't come into action until another body is destroyed. Basically, Danzo gets more redos than Pein does. What's even worse is that when he revives he gets to decide where he places his recreated body, allowing him to essentially teleport. Pein's shared eyesight could prevent surprise attacks, but only for a bit.