Dangai Ichigo, Rinnegan Sasuke vs Kratos & Atreus

Fight takes place at an indistructible castle

Gallery

End game kratos & Atreus (Ragnarok)

Either of team 1 solo

@reaperthegrim: damn 💀💀💀💀💀

@reaperthegrim: do you even know Kratos?

He alone stomps the two with their verses.

Arteus gets carried.

Kratos can beat all of Naruto and Bleach at the same time.

In before "UnIvErSe LeVeL kRaToS"

Ichigo dies,Sasuke wins

congrats! you got in before common sense

OT - ascension kratos stomps.

...Prove how?

?

@dontrundontslip: Sasuke should comfortably take this lmao.

Either team 1 fodderize

@owie@killbilly mismatch kratos and the boy stomp both verses

in what world lmao

SPARTAN RAGE

Genjutsu

Why stop there ? Sasuke have been wanked to universal, Ichigo have been wanked to low multiversal and Krato have been wank to infinite multiversal to possible outerversal on vs wiki and r/powerscaling

Realistically any of these characters being placed beyond planet level is a stretch that would require power scaling them off informed attributes and blatant outliers.

@bossmountain:

Why stop there ? Sasuke have been wanked to universal, Ichigo have been wanked to low multiversal and Krato have been wank to infinite multiversal to possible outerversal on vs wiki and r/powerscaling

Kratos has actual narrative to scale to 1C , can you post something in favour of Sasuke and Ichigo that is remotely universal , like take their entire verse and post it , but do it in a manner where you don't use faulty r/powerscaling logic.

just post a statement saying Yhwach can destroy all the realms or Kaguya can bust all her worlds , please.

Realistically any of these characters being placed beyond planet level is a stretch that would require power scaling them off informed attributes and blatant outliers.

Kratos only needs the undebunkable narrative of the verse , like.....surtur being capable of nuking the nine realms , Sadly Sasuke and Ichigo must need a lot of mental gymnastics to even compete.

@bossmountain:

You can literally argument the same narrative hogwash for Ichigo Love how you're calling r/powerscaling scaling faulty for Bleach when you're using the same logic for Kratos.

No you can't , are you traumatized via R/powerscaling? because none of that is being used here , there is a deep difference between Bleach and GOW , that GOW metas don't exactly have a counter argument , merely spamming anti feats and not actually disproving the argument , the bleach ones.... lol. if you've a problem with my scaling then disprove it rather then implying I'm using logic from that shitty subreddit who bans people for having different takes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/101u6g2/lets_discuss_itis_bleach_uni/

lol post a statement that Yhwach can destroy all the realms mate , your own post is implying Yhwach was gonna destroy the three realms ( which wasn't his plan ) because......YHWACH DESTROYED A COUNTRY WITH HIS REIATSU and not exactly one shot either , which is an anti feat as that barrier was one shotted via something far weaker , you're posting a country's destruction for implication of multiversal power.

and the second scan , oh man that one is....wow , that statement is...just damn , you really posted a statement directly saying that Reio was what was stopping the soul Society from turning back into what it was..... as evidence that Yhwach is doing that via his own power? wow , did you open the links or just saw a lot of links and went "damn thats a lot of proof"?

there are realms in Bleach that are stated to be infinite in size

Muken isn't infinite , it merely deludes you into believing its infinite , so literally arguing infinite muken is exactly same as what it is believing it in Bleach , a Delusion.

You can make the same narrative argument

No No No , you don't make narratives , they are either there or they aren't existing

for Ichigo and how yhwach gonna nuke 3 worlds one which containing the infinite size muken.

Yhwach wasn't gonna nuke the three worlds , he somehow removed the boundaries that were gonna make all the worlds to crumble into one and turn back into the premordeal world with no sepration between alive and dead.

just a laundry list hyperboles,

Statements you can't disprove aren't hyberboles , are these direct statements of Ragnarok Surtur scaling to his cosmology also " hyberbole " , or is it just that you don't like them?

" as this was the entity who would turn into Ragnarok ---- and ultimately be the end of everything in the nine realms "

"we wought to create a hollowed out destroyer ------- one who is a literal shell. the one thing that completes , his wife Sinmara , cannot be near him, or they cease to be and begin the end of all "

outliers

outliers happen 2 times tops , GOW has atleast 8+ different tier 1-2 stuff.

and informed capabilities

informed capabilities need actual contradiction in them for them to be informed abilities , otherwise they aren't , as shown by the examples you used.

and that are not properly reflected by the feats in the actual medium itself.

Surtur literally one shotted Asgard in the newest GOW , if that isn't enough for you , then nothing ever will be.

@maulsmacker:

I ripped apart your logic last time we did this and rather not stretch this out to another 3 pages. So i'll end with.

1.)Pointing how a high ball interpretations are completely inconsistent with average showing of the franchise is a valved point and counter argument.

2.) Argument based on narratives have no place in verse debates in general.

3.) Outlier can appear much more than twice Batman is living proof of this.

4.)An Informed abilities is when A character is stated to have skilled or power but either doesn't use the skill at all in the story or does so in an unimpressive way. is doesn't need to be contradicted by anything. it just needs to not be well represented.

https://youtu.be/UNE1G4tP2kI

Yeah I'm going to post a link for the of "Surtur one shotting asgard " scene right here and just let people judge themselves how powerful it is.

@bossmountain:

I ripped apart your logic last time we did this and rather not stretch this out to another 3 pages. So i'll end with.

You didn't rip apart shit mate , or anything at all , I countered everything you said with my own arguments , don't wank yourself.

1.)Pointing how a high ball interpretations are completely inconsistent with average showing of the franchise is a valved point and counter argument.

and so is pointing out that the display of inconsistency can all be extinguished via real author quotes , the fact that the anti feats don't apply to any other character then Kratos and by the fact that the anti feats directly conflict with the lowest end feat of the verse , invalidating antifeats with low ends is a completely fair argument.

2.) Argument based on narratives have no place in verse debates in general.

Yes they do , otherwise bleach won't even be planet level , Narrative is supreme , if the plot of something revolves around

3.) Outlier can appear much more than twice Batman is living proof of this.

Bad comparasion , my comments would not apply here simply because I commented on one story ( GOW ) , Batman has been in 100s of stories and has 70 years worth of content , very big difference.

4.)An Informed abilities is when A character is stated to have skilled or power but either doesn't use the skill at all in the story or does so in an unimpressive way. is doesn't need to be contradicted by anything. it just needs to not be well represented.

both examples that you used last time had contradiction , Kakashi can use 1000 techniques but in fights where he was near dead he used the same old 10 jutsus , a clear display the 1000 jutsu stuff was incorrect and inapplicable and just a mere arguably hyberbolic implied ability , there is no such contradiction in my arguments.

https://youtu.be/UNE1G4tP2kI

Yeah I'm going to post a link for the of "Surtur one shotting asgard " scene right here and just let people judge themselves how powerful it is.

literally the whole realm of Asgard being nuked isn't impressive enough for you? damn , I should add in the context that Asgard is an universe for people to get idea of the feat.

Midgard is reffered to as an universe on three completely seprate situations

Gallery

and the Surtur murals calls Asgard an universe.

The translation of the runes at the bottom describes Ragnarok as "the death and rebirth of the universe."

why would Kratos even scale to Surtr when Surtr swatted him like a fly and one-shotted a gate Kratos explicitly couldn't have broken?

Because Surtur explicitly failed to defeat Thor and was held off by Freyr for the same duration it took for THOR AND ODIN to die , and Surtur merely caught Kratos offguard with a push that didn't harm him , and Surtur's didn't punch through that construct but merely using his hot premordeal flame to burn it .

post "open your heart" scene Kratos >= Thor > Jormungandarr + Surtur.

@maulsmacker: Chidori bisects the both of em? Kratos was stabbed by normal weapons in the book and shot by atreus arrows. A chidori decaps em both lmao

I don't recall Thor fighting Surtur or defeating Surtur when he attack asgard. he was only prophesized to defeat along with help from Odin . the fact that he would have need Odin's help to win suggestion he won't scale not that it ended up happening at all. And even then fact that Surtur didn't instantly one shot thor and the others doesn't mean they're equal or relatives.

seeing how Kratos's inferior in Baldur doesn't get pierced by Leviathan axe , the strongest weapon in norse mythos with the Mjolnir , I don't exactly see the part where chidori is supposed to harm , as Sasuke's stats are wayyyyy too

Thor was fighting Surtur as Surtur is quite literally standing next to Thor and Jormungandarr in the scene where Thor bonks Jormungandarr back in time , after bonking Jormungandarr back in time Surtur sweeps thor to the right with a hit which does zero visible damage and Thor just ignores him and moves onto Kratos.

Freyr fighting him for as long as he did is already a display that Surtur isn't some god amongst mortals.

@maulsmacker: What kind of argument is that? Because baldur who's hax is he cant be hurt by weapons resisted it kratos can too? No. Thats literally baldurs power. Kratos has too many anti feats for piercing and slashing dmg to not be bisected.

Also don't know what you mean by sasukes stats being too low. He should blitz comfortably being at FTL bare minimum with egregious downplay.

@itachisolosnodiff:

What kind of argument is that? Because baldur who's hax is he cant be hurt by weapons resisted it kratos can too? No. Thats literally baldurs power. Kratos has too many anti feats for piercing and slashing dmg to not be bisected.

Baldur doesn't have any hax that makes him durable , he is merely immortal , there is nothing making him resistant to piercing attacks , and Naruto characters have no place to argue about lack of piercing resistance lmao , considering Kunais can be death as shown by Hashirama and swords can pierce without chakra cloaks.

Also don't know what you mean by sasukes stats being too low. He should blitz comfortably being at FTL bare minimum with egregious downplay.

FTL? GOW ascension Kratos scales to that

, for deeper GOW speed scaling , also Sasuke is comfortably FTL+.

@maulsmacker:

Thor was fighting Surtur as Surtur is quite literally standing next to Thor and Jormungandarr in the scene where Thor bonks Jormungandarr back in time , after bonking Jormungandarr back in time Surtur sweeps thor to the right with a hit which does zero visible damage.

Yeah I see him in the background of Thor fighting Jormungadurr I don't see him fighting Thor alongside Jorm.

Freyr fighting him for as long as he did is already a display that Surtur isn't some god amongst mortals.

or Surtur wasn't trying to kill him. plus Freyr also tried talking things out with Surtur I doubt it was serious slug fest. I also don't believe that being a minor Skirmish with someone means that you're relative to them

@bossmountain:

Yeah I see him in the background of Thor fighting Jormungadurr I don't see him fighting Thor alongside Jorm.

I mean , he literally attacks Thor with his hand and kinda does a slap the moment after Jormungandarr is sent back in time and before Kratos and thrudd converse , which explains why there was enough time for Kratos and Thrudd to converse and why Thor was swept right in that scene.

or Surtur wasn't trying to kill him. plus Freyr also tried talking things out with Surtur I doubt it was serious slug fest. I also don't believe that being a minor Skirmish with someone means that you're relative to them

Surtur would try to kill anything that would go close to it as at this point he had lost his mind and become an animalistic beast , Freyr dropped the idea of talking things out in the scene where he comes to Kratos before going back and Kratos also tells him to hold him off rather then talk , and Freyr directly blocks surtur's full power strikes with Ingrid ( which is explicitly inferior to Mjolnir ) , Ingrid and Freyr 100% scale to surtur's final strike that did the feat as he already stopped that strike for a pretty decent amount of time before Surtur finally overpowered him.

also , Thor is directly stated to be a bigger problem then Surtur by Freyr who just saw/fought both , so there you go, Thor > Surtur.

@bossmountain:

Can you point out the time slot were this because I don't Surtur making direct attacks on thor.

1:24 , Surtur slaps him to the right side which gives Kratos the time to speak with Thrudd.

None of these sword swings where aim at them and they didn't stop or deflect any of those full power strikes either. they just held back the fire from the sword itself. He wouldn't scale physical to him

the sword in this context is Ingrid or Surtur's sword? he stopped surtur's strike and stopped it from destroying Asgard momentarily with Ingrid ( Mjolnir > Ingrid again ) and Surtur had to redo his strike , he stopped momentarily the very source that caused the feat ( destruction of asgard and shaking of Yggdrasil to its roots ) so yea Ingrid in AP does scale to Surtur's final strike.

fyi the Hyperion essence only makes portalsthat teleports you at lightspeed. btw

@bossmountain:

So surviving getting swatted like a fly makes you relative now? I've slapped flies in a similar matter and some have gotten back up unharmed..so those flies must be human level.

Easily surviving a full power swipe without any damages , having no problem going 2v1 against them , being called a bigger threat e.t.c. kinda does make you relative , now I show you Thor not being damaged by Surtur's strikes now its a wweird human/mosquito analogy when Thor is a smart being who wouldn't fight Surtur if there was a size gap and a mosquito would never be able to stall a human from going somewhere.

so he didn't deflect or tanked any direct attacks from him at all and only able to temporarily hold of the fire from his sword from consuming asgard with high difficulty the scaling makes no sense ingrid didn't overpowered deflects any attacks from Surtur

No lol , he blocked the strike and forced Surtur to strike again with his sword with full strength, it momentarily contained the very same power that can one shot Asgard and thus somewhat scales to Surtur , which is consistent with Freyr solo holding off Ragnarok from the moment where Thor jumped Kratos to the moment where Odin died.

let's alone thor scaling above him just because he survived getting swatted by him.

Thor held off Surtur while easily tanking his strikes , him being there passively stopped Surtur and Jormungandarr from moving forward.

fyi the Hyperion essence only makes portalsthat teleports you at lightspeed. btw

it practically allows you to dash at LS , which Castor and Pollux are directly stated to be faster then , here is essence of hyperion at work at around 1:31 , just a fast dash

advance on enemies with the speed of light by opening a Hyperion portal. this is pretty cut and dry.

Essence of Hyperion Allows teleportation as many times as possible within 2.5 seconds. Cooldown: 55 seconds (Rank 3).

https://www.ign.com/wikis/god-of-war-ascension/Items

both lore and item description defines it as teleportation.

Easily surviving a full power swipe without any damages , having no problem going 2v1 against them , being called a bigger threat e.t.c. kinda does make you relative , now I show you Thor not being damaged by Surtur's strikes now its a wweird human/mosquito analogy when Thor is a smart being who wouldn't fight Surtur if there was a size gap and a mosquito would never be able to stall a human from going somewhere.

what do you mean 2v1? Freyr was distracting Surtur for unknown about of time as well. all we see Surtur do is take a single swing at thor. the only thing we can confirm is that Thor tanked getting fly swatted which hardly justifies scaling thor above Surtur. bye your logical most flies should scales to humans.

No lol , he blocked the strike and forced Surtur to strike again with his sword with full strength, it momentarily contained the very same power that can one shot Asgard and thus somewhat scales to Surtur , which is consistent with Freyr solo holding off Ragnarok from the moment where Thor jumped Kratos to the moment where Odin died.

TIME STAMP 17 HOURS 48 MINUTES AND 50 17:48:50 both times Surtur's sword strikes the ground first. all Freyr does is hold back the fire/explosion cause by it. We Never see this Character tank or deflect a single direct attack from Surtur this scaling is so sus..

@maulsmacker: Your ignoring the part where Ninjas can amp their weapons with chakra. Hence why minato is such a threat even though 50% of his arsenal is his kunai and rasengan. Try again.

Im also aware Sasuke is much faster then FTL but i was just using a bare minimum as to show that sasuke should blitz even at his worse. Again kratos has alot of anti feats like being tagged by randos in the books and even atreus unless you wanna argue theyre FTL+ too.

@bossmountain:

advance on enemies with the speed of light by opening a Hyperion portal. this is pretty cut and dry.

Essence of Hyperion Allows teleportation as many times as possible within 2.5 seconds. Cooldown: 55 seconds (Rank 3).

https://www.ign.com/wikis/god-of-war-ascension/Items

both lore and item description defines it as teleportation

I mean , take a look at how it works here is essence of hyperion at work at around 1:31 , just a fast dash , you can quite literally see their blurred movements.

also the item description says advance and the visual clearly shows its just a fast dash , which makes sense as its just the bootleg version of Zeus's dash.

what do you mean 2v1? Freyr was distracting Surtur for unknown about of time as well. all we see Surtur do is take a single swing at thor. the only thing we can confirm is that Thor tanked getting fly swatted which hardly justifies scaling thor above Surtur. bye your logical most flies should scales to humans

you don't distract an animal without mind , if Freyr couldn't harm or stop him he would literally get swatted away and ignored , the fact here is that Thor fought both Jormungandarr and Surtur , took hits from Surtur and wasn't damaged , and was reffered as the bigger problem then Surtur , all pretty direct.

TIME STAMP 17 HOURS 48 MINUTES AND 50 17:48:50 both times Surtur's sword strikes the ground first. all Freyr does is hold back the fire/explosion cause by it. We Never see this Character tank or deflect a single direct attack from Surtur this scaling is so sus..

Freyr already told us Surtur < Thor which is consistent with Surtur not being able to do anything to Thor , stopping one of the blasts that destroyed Asgard and shook Yggdrasil to its core already means Ingrid scales to Surtur's sword strikes , even if not multiple times.

@itachisolosnodiff:

: Your ignoring the part where Ninjas can amp their weapons with chakra. Hence why minato is such a threat even though 50% of his arsenal is his kunai and rasengan. Try again.

and you're ignoring the fact that the gods and magic users such as Atreus also amp their weapon , Odin amped his spear to the point he killed a cosmic conceptual being whose head and flesh were enough to create countless universes , Atreus also amps his arrows with a piece of light of alfheim , the light's full power can destroy the 9 realms/universes so even a portion would be ghastly.

Im also aware Sasuke is much faster then FTL but i was just using a bare minimum as to show that sasuke should blitz even at his worse.

maybe blitz ascension Kratos

Again kratos has alot of anti feats like being tagged by randos in the books and even atreus unless you wanna argue theyre FTL+ too.

don't care , Atreus gets stronger throughout the game , being stronger then BoGOWIV Atreus isn't a feat. Atreus grows stronger throughout the game , to the point of solo stomping 100s of dark elves for a whole day when Kratos was in the light of alfheim.

Kratos very clearly holds back in the Norse game and just uses enough power to win , until you think those randoms truly scale to the furies and olympians thats just either an inconsistency or example of Kratos holding back , I already proved Ascension Kratos was slapping FTL characters , I'm assuming you can't disprove it?

@bossmountain:

Yes i know how in gameplay it's neither looks lightspeed or like teleportation. but aren't we suppose to take lore over gameplay when "fairly" scaling him? You're basically saying this description of this item is wrong based on how it's represented in game.

Really nice attempt even if extremely laughable but sadly I must suggest you read the item description without deciding what it sounds like before actually reading it .

it "advances" on your enemy , not "teleport" on your enemy , teleportation doesn't have a speed and the fact that it advances on your enemy is consistent with whats shown of it working and how it is based on Zeus's dash which is....a dash , not Teleportation.

so no , as clearly shown by clear cut display of this technique , said by the item description and shown by Word of God , this is a dash.

and "doesn't look like lightspeed"? looks more lightspeed then any Naruto characters or Bleach characters during movement but I guess your inner hatred for GOW has caused you to lose any sense of objectivity.

there are in fact many ways to distract a wild beast without physically hurting it. or even coming into direct physical contact them

not when they are attempting to do something and are completely focused on it , if you can't harm them or stop their action , Freyr holding off Surtur already makes him scale to him.

you keep saying yet. there is actually no proof Thor was even able to inflict any damage to Surtur at all. the most you can say is that Thor tank getting slapped out the air by Surtur anything beyond is a baseless assumption.

Thor easily no sold his attacks and had zero problem taking him and Jormungandarr at once , and on top of that had zero problem holding Surtur off and Kratos felt he needed to fight Thor rather then leaving it to Surtur , its not a baseless assumption but anyone who played the game and payed attention kinda knows Base Thor > Surtur.

when did he say this?

have you like played the game? or just saw it on YouTube and copypasted arguments from characterrant and consider yourself an expert? Kratos tells Freyr to go reason with Surtur , Freyr comes back and says "they don't want to talk" and on seeing thor he explicitly comments Thor is a bigger problem then Surtur

Aside from swatting him away like bug? You also seem to ignored that fact thor did not to him either. only thing we saw of their "battle" was Thor getting swatted

And you're ignorant to the fact Surtur's full power strikes can't do anything to Thor , Thor was confident he can take both at once and we know Thor doesn't overestimate his power as shown by Starkadr , Thor literally fighting both at once and just ignoring Surtur the moment he saw Kratos.

yea , but I won't exactly say it "swatted like a bug" , more , took a full power strike and effortlessly no sold without even a scratch.

You mean he was able to temporary hold back the flames of from Surtur's sword strikes. he clearly didn't deflect the strikes themselves. it's makes little sense to scale him to the destruction of asgard when spoiler he didn't survive the destruction of asgard. Imagine scaling a character to an attack that instant kills them because he was able to partially and temporarily held it back twice.

Keyword, held it back , likely neither Surtur nor Freyr survived that attack so I don't see your point, does Surtur not scale to his own attack now.....? we're told years ago if something falls off a branch of Yggdrasil they get erased , how do you know Freyr and Surtur didn't just get erased?

Nor did he tank any direct attacks from Surtur at all and neither him or Thor were shown harming him at all either.

again , Thor already took a direct attack and no sold , after 2v1ing Jormungandarr and Surtur and one shotting one of them back in time via shaking and splintering the multiversal structure , add to that Thor believed he can take Jormungandarr and Surtur at once , Kratos believed he needs to fight Thor when Thor was fighting Surtur , Kratos believing Freyr can hold off Surtur e.t.c. , Surtur isn't really as untouchable as you'd like him being.

@maulsmacker:

Really nice attempt even if extremely laughable but sadly I must suggest you read the item description without deciding what it sounds like before actually reading it .

it "advances" on your enemy , not "teleport" on your enemy , teleportation doesn't have a speed and the fact that it advances on your enemy is consistent with whats shown of it working and how it is based on Zeus's dash which is....a dash , not Teleportation.

so no , as clearly shown by clear cut display of this technique , said by the item description and shown by Word of God , this is a dash.

and "doesn't look like lightspeed"? looks more lightspeed then any Naruto characters or Bleach characters during movement but I guess your inner hatred for GOW has caused you to lose any sense of objectivity.

ADVANCE ON YOUR ENEMY WITH THE SPEED OF LIGHT BY OPENING A HYPERION PORTAL!!!

portal base travel does not qualify as speed it counts as teleportation. Your argument is just ignoring the full sentence. and using gameplay to overwrite the item's lore description. Yeah I agree it's not portrayed as being teleportation in gameplay but it's also not portrayed as being lightspeed at all in gameplay either.

it's just funny how you're trying to partially debunk the item's lore description and say it's partially incorrect because of gameplay.when in fact the entire description is contradicted by gameplay.Either go fully with the gameplay or full with the lore not this weird mismatch pick your poison either way it's not light speed movement.

not when they are attempting to do something and are completely focused on it , if you can't harm them or stop their action , Freyr holding off Surtur already makes him scale to him.

Loud noises, bright colors, etc.. your argument that ONLY way to distract a raging"wild beast" is with physical hand to hand combat is objectively untrue.

Thor easily no sold his attacks and had zero problem taking him and Jormungandarr at once , and on top of that had zero problem holding Surtur off and Kratos felt he needed to fight Thor rather then leaving it to Surtur , its not a baseless assumption but anyone who played the game and payed attention kinda knows Base Thor > Surtur.

attacks? we only see Sutur attack thor once!! and it was just a fly swat. by your logic flys should scale above humans.

fought them both at once? Sutur didn't even swing at him until after Thor defeated Jorm. this whole Surtur/Jorm double tag team action against thor must have happened in your head because certainly DID NOT happen on-screen.

have you like played the game? or just saw it on YouTube and copypasted arguments from characterrant and consider yourself an expert? Kratos tells Freyr to go reason with Surtur , Freyr comes back and says "they don't want to talk" and on seeing thor he explicitly comments Thor is a bigger problem then Surtur

Seriously? I don't think you could have gone with a more vague statement. Due to the context this can be interpreted to mean a number of different things that have nothing to do with power. Thor being a bigger threat could just be due to the fact he's actively trying to thwarts the hero's plans. While Sutur is reduced to a mindless beast; him attacking asgard was always apart of the hero's plans. Were as thor getting in their way was not. which makes him a bigger problem. Especially with the prophecy of Thor and Odin teaming up to take Surtur out.

"

And you're ignorant to the fact Surtur's full power strikes can't do anything to Thor , Thor was confident he can take both at once and we know Thor doesn't overestimate his power as shown by Starkadr , Thor literally fighting both at once and just ignoring Surtur the moment he saw Kratos.

yea , but I won't exactly say it "swatted like a bug" , more , took a full power strike and effortlessly no sold without even a scratch."

You wouldn't say he got swatted like a bug in spite of that being exactly what happen and literal only thing we see of their fight, FULL POWER STRIKE? X'D didn't use his sword and his fist weren't even closed. it was fly swat.

Keyword, held it back , likely neither Surtur nor Freyr survived that attack so I don't see your point, does Surtur not scale to his own attack now.....? we're told years ago if something falls off a branch of Yggdrasil they get erased , how do you know Freyr and Surtur didn't just get erased?

Surtur might gotten erase since his rest of the body was no near the blast but to assume Freyr tank it in spite having literally no showing of directly tanking or deflecting any direct attacks from Surtur at all prior let alone one he himself couldn't survive is bullshit to say the least. It would be like assuming Tien survive Kid buu's destruction of the earth because he deflected one of Buutenk's attacks. (he totally deflected a direct attack from a stronger version of buu sO hE sHoUld sCaLe ). This kind of power scaling crummy even by crummy Dragon ball standards.

again , Thor already took a direct attack and no sold , after 2v1ing Jormungandarr and Surtur and ,,, Kratos believing Freyr can hold off Surtur e.t.c. ,

it sent him flying. that's not no selling by the agree upon definition of this of this site. . https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/tanking-vs-no-selling-2095818/

again this Surtur/Jorm buddy team up tag team happen in your mind as it sure as heck didn't happen on-screen.

one shotting one of them back in time via shaking and splintering the multiversal structure

And given how during their actual fight the ground doesn't even shake, that part of the legend was just myth.

add to that Thor believed he can take Jormungandarr and Surtur at once

more fantasy as these is wasn't shown in game.

Kratos believed he needs to fight Thor when Thor was fighting Surtur

Because Thor back up by Odin was prophesize to kill him which kinda contradicts the whole Thor > Surtur if Thor was only prophesize to win with odin's in a 2 v 1. then again this never ends up happen anyway.

Surtur isn't really as untouchable as you'd like him being.

there is literally no proof Thor or Freyr inflicted any damage to him at all. he is visually undamage.

@bossmountain:

ADVANCE ON YOUR ENEMY WITH THE SPEED OF LIGHT BY OPENING A HYPERION PORTAL!!!

Yes , what about it seems to be teleportation to you? I don't see the part that I'm mesnt to consider teleportation.

portal base travel does not qualify as speed it counts as teleportation.

This is clearly not teleportation though? as shown , the enemy is advancing at a certain speed , speed is caused via distance and that distance can only be viable if the distance is covered , and the fundamental definition of teleportation requires that distance to be completely ignored

Your argument is just ignoring the full sentence.

The sentence doesn't support your argument , rather it completely dismantles your argument.

and using gameplay to overwrite the item's lore description.

Yeah I agree it's not portrayed as being teleportation in gameplay but it's also not portrayed as being lightspeed at all in gameplay either.

again its never stated to be Teleportation , you merely misinterpreted a sentence , likely because of the dishonesty syndrome and decided to pretend that it is some teleportation when its clearly not as I've proven via visual and word of god that its a dash and as shown by the item description its clearly not teleportation as its "advancing " on an opponent not teleporting.

it's just funny how you're trying to partially debunk the item's lore description and say it's partially incorrect because of gameplay.when in fact the entire description is contradicted by gameplay.Either go fully with the gameplay or full with the lore not this weird mismatch pick your poison either way it's not light speed movement.

there is no contradiction to the lightspeed statement , infact its more legitmate lightspeed then you'd find anywhere in shounen , regardless there is actually no contradiction here , you assumed this Hyperion portal teleports when all it does is allow you to dash and advance at your enemy at the speed of light.

I've proven that its a dash by both the item description which describes actual quantifiable movement aka speed of light which directly contradicts the fundamental definition of teleportation , and the visual that clearly shows us its a dash and a Word of God furthur confirming its just a stripped down dash from Zeus which makes sense as its an ability the champions of Zeus uses.

the reason you've ignored the clear cut Word of God and wanna shove in teleportation in a technique that isn't stated or shown to work as teleportation is because of what I can see is that you just went to IGN for the item description , assumed their teleportation stuff was correct and went with it and now that IGN is proven incorrect you don't have the stomach to admit for once that you were incorrect , correct?

Loud noises, bright colors, etc.. your argument that ONLY way to distract a raging"wild beast" is with physical hand to hand combat is objectively untrue

again , Surtur doesn't give a shit , all he wanna do is nuke asgard , no amount of light or sound is stopping him from just straight up nuking asgard.

attacks? we only see Sutur attack thor once!! and it was just a fly swat. by your logic flys should scale above humans.

Surtur wasn't standing there and picking berries lmao , He was there even before Thor slapped Jormungandarr back in time , until you think he was standing there just to pick some berries or in style then no there isn't any argument for them to not tag team , we literally see Jormun and Surtur together against an alone Thor , its pretty clear what was happening there.

fought them both at once? Sutur didn't even swing at him until after Thor defeated Jorm.

Surtur was literally there before that swing , he is standing there and doing nothing? lmao this debate just keeps getting better , Literally freyr comes flying from the director of Thor and Surtur and Jormun , Surtur was already there when Freyr tried talking to him lol.

this whole Surtur/Jorm double tag team action against thor must have happened in your head because certainly DID NOT happen on-screen.

again , Surtur doesn't stand there to just pick berries , both Jormun and Surtur are clearly next to each other with the intent of killing Thor.

Seriously? I don't think you could have gone with a more vague statement. Due to the context this can be interpreted to mean a number of different things that have nothing to do with power. Thor being a bigger threat could just be due to the fact he's actively trying to thwarts the hero's plans. While Sutur is reduced to a mindless beast; him attacking asgard was always apart of the hero's plans. Were as thor getting in their way was not. which makes him a bigger problem. Especially with the prophecy of Thor and Odin teaming up to take Surtur out.

Is this a joke? Thor is somehow worse then Surtur right now when Surtur is about to nuke all of Asgard which would end up killing everyone? Surtur and Thor are as dangerous right now , Surtur worse as Thor can atleast be reasoned with and yet both Freyr and Kratos acknowledge that Thor is a worse problem then Surtur even though Surtur is about to do something that would be far worse then what even Thor would do , there is also a reason Kratos sends Freyr after Surtur while going himself against Thor , Thor can only be a bigger problem if he is more powerful , his intent/goal is not worse then Surtur's and thor can be reasoned with.

the prophecy of Thor and Odin together taking down Surtur can also be taken as furthur prove they scale , Thor is the strongest of the gods per the vanaheim crater , if either Thor or Odin were fodder to Surtur they'd get one shotted but that isn't the case is it? so you're again making both Odin and Thor scale to Surtur.

You wouldn't say he got swatted like a bug in spite of that being exactly what happen and literal only thing we see of their fight, FULL POWER STRIKE? X'D didn't use his sword and his fist weren't even closed. it was fly swat.

Surtur's sword just seems to be a large blade that is channeling his premordeal flame , Surtur can channel the same flame from his hand , and also how else are you expecting Surtur to fight Thor? If not by hand then what would he use? his head? the Blade wouldn't give him any piercing advantages either due to size.

Surtur might gotten erase since his rest of the body was no near the blast but to assume Freyr tank it in spite having literally no showing of directly tanking or deflecting any direct attacks from Surtur at all prior let alone one he himself couldn't survive is bullshit to say the least.

point is , Yes Freyr died but so did Surtur, so does Surtur not scale to his own attacks? and also Freyr stopped Surtur from destroying asgard for as long as it took Kratos to beat Thor and then Odin , all the monologues e.t.c. also happened in that timeframe so yes he did defend against Surtur just fine.

It would be like assuming Tien survive Kid buu's destruction of the earth because he deflected one of Buutenk's attacks. (he totally deflected a direct attack from a stronger version of buu sO hE sHoUld sCaLe ). This kind of power scaling crummy even by crummy Dragon ball standards

you always start bitching whenever someone mentions Dragonball in a God of war conversation and you're doing it yourself now? if you can bring me a feat of Tien holding off a completely bloodlusted Majin Buu for the same duration it took Goku to beat Freeza or Gohan to beat Cell , then sure I would say Tien can somewhat scale but Tien never did anything like that , while Freyr did to Surtur.

it sent him flying. that's not no selling by the agree upon definition of this of this site. . https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/tanking-vs-no-selling-2095818/

....and it did no damage , did you ever consider the only reason Thor was swept aside was because the mass of Surtur's hand utterly dwarves Thor's overall body mass? yea , because thats that , we see him coming back with zero injuries and giving Kratos a great fight.

again this Surtur/Jorm buddy team up tag team happen in your mind as it sure as heck didn't happen on-screen.

again Surtur wasn't just standing there picking berries , until you think he stood there for no cause I don't see how Surtur and Jormungandarr weren't meant to be together in that scene.

And given how during their actual fight the ground doesn't even shake, that part of the legend was just myth.

Nah , Mimir explicitly says the legend was true , no added conditions of " hey that part was false " , until you've a better explanation then thats the canon explanation, and there is nothing contradicting it either except the visuals , you compained about me using essence of hyperion at work but here you're back at visual > lore hmmmmmmmmmm suspicious , regardless the ground not shaking can just be the cause of a faulty visual.

Because Thor back up by Odin was prophesize to kill him which kinda contradicts the whole Thor > Surtur if Thor was only prophesize to win with odin's in a 2 v 1. then again this never ends up happen anyway

again that would still make Thor scale to Surtur considering that two planet level characters aren't taking down a multiverse shaking universe one shot busting god , and the prophecy was made long ago , and Thor is quantifiably way stronger during Ragnarok then before as before he failed to beat the world serpant while during Ragnarok he not only defeated Jormungandarr without any wounds but also hit him literally back in time while also dealing with Surtur , so clearly ragnarok Thor >>> previous versions.

there is literally no proof Thor or Freyr inflicted any damage to him at all. he is visually undamage.

and Surtur didn't inflict any damage on Thor or Freyr either , same Freyr that remained undamaged while stopping him from destroying asgard for an extremely long amount of time , same thor he literally went to fight side by side with Jormungandarr, even got a clean hit but still couldn't make Thor back down as Thor believed he could take him and Jormy , and still couldn't damage Thor.

Universal Kratos? wow

Any tp/illusions resistance feats for Kratos and Atreus?

Man so much faster then light he got dabbed on by a child.