Damien Darhk and Malcolm Merlyn vs Daredevil and Iron Fist

Avatar image for arcus1
Arcus1

28195

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Damien Darhk and Malcolm Merlyn:

No Caption Provided

VS

Daredevil and Iron Fist:

No Caption Provided

In this Legion of Doom vs Defenders 2v2, who will win?

CW/MCU versions of both, respectively

Fight takes place in the streets of New York. Time is twilight.

All are in character. Victory by ko

Round 1:

All are in their standard outfits, but unarmed

Danny cannot use the Iron Fist

Darhk cannot use his magic

Round 2:

Standard gear for all (includes a sword and knife for Darhk)

Danny can use his chi

I realize the exact impact of Darhk's magic on his stats is kinda questionable, and subject to debate, but for this round at least, assume his stats are at his best. However, he has no other magic powers

Who wins?

Avatar image for deactivated-5a89ca5697052
deactivated-5a89ca5697052

8063

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Round 1: Marvel

Round 2: DC

Avatar image for arcus1
Arcus1

28195

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3  Edited By Arcus1
Avatar image for deactivated-5a89ca5697052
deactivated-5a89ca5697052

8063

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@arcus1 said:
@ithemanwithoutfeari said:

Round 1: Marvel

Round 2: DC

Any reasons?

Team Marvel should be the superior CQC combatants. More skilled and faster in combat, but they have no answer for Darhks powers in round 2.

Avatar image for arcus1
Arcus1

28195

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@arcus1 said:
@ithemanwithoutfeari said:

Round 1: Marvel

Round 2: DC

Any reasons?

Team Marvel should be the superior CQC combatants. More skilled and faster in combat, but they have no answer for Darhks powers in round 2.

Darhk doesn't have his magic powers in round 2, just his stats (if you think the magic increased his stats, which is debatable)

Avatar image for sy8000
Sy8000

37636

Forum Posts

24

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Legends Darhk is weird from what I can gleam, but I don't see Matt doing anything here and the Legion winning both rounds. Round 2 Danny is fairly sketchy against projectiles.

Avatar image for deactivated-5a89ca5697052
deactivated-5a89ca5697052

8063

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@arcus1 said:
@ithemanwithoutfeari said:
@arcus1 said:
@ithemanwithoutfeari said:

Round 1: Marvel

Round 2: DC

Any reasons?

Team Marvel should be the superior CQC combatants. More skilled and faster in combat, but they have no answer for Darhks powers in round 2.

Darhk doesn't have his magic powers in round 2, just his stats (if you think the magic increased his stats, which is debatable)

Oh Ok I see ...

Team Marvel wins again then.

Avatar image for reaverlation
reaverlation

26398

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Legion of Doom

Avatar image for rabumalal
RabumAlal

5747

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Damien and Malcolm look gay.

Avatar image for mrmonster
mrmonster

25750

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Round 1: Team Marvel, but it's close

Round 2: DD and Iron Fist because of chi

Avatar image for thesuperor
TheSuperor

7773

Forum Posts

1470

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

Damien and Malcolm

Avatar image for nefarious
nefarious

35827

Forum Posts

6914

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

#12  Edited By nefarious

The villains win both rounds.

Avatar image for arcus1
Arcus1

28195

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Bump, any more thoughts?

Avatar image for nickzambuto
nickzambuto

29288

Forum Posts

5083

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

After Defenders, I am finally comfortable with putting Matt on par with Merlyn. Merlyn is really underestimated, but his feats of beating the crap out of S1 Arrow, when S1 Arrow could brutalize 20 or so mercenaries much easier than Daredevil can, and toying with Nyssa while she was trying to kill him and somehow disarming her sword in the middle of the fight without her noticing, are more than enough to threaten Matt's level of skill.

Now here's the thing. Daredevil's best feat is his performance against the superhuman assassin Elektra. Elektra can throw men like toys, bullet time, and she's a master assassin. Okay. In Legends S1, Sara had a similar performance against the superhuman assassin Pilgrim. Pilgrim could throw men like toys, bullet time, and she was a master assassin.

So, I think this would mean Sara and Matt are floating around on the same tier... but Darhk toyed with that Sara like she was a complete idiot. He made a mockery of her skill without even trying. So Darhk > Daredevil? Sounds reasonable to me.

Avatar image for sy8000
Sy8000

37636

Forum Posts

24

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

So, I think this would mean Sara and Matt are floating around on the same tier... but Darhk toyed with that Sara like she was a complete idiot. He made a mockery of her skill without even trying. So Darhk > Daredevil? Sounds reasonable to me.

But Sara beat Darhk later. Inconsistencies abound.

Avatar image for angeljax
AngelJax

15736

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Team 2

Avatar image for arcus1
Arcus1

28195

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

After Defenders, I am finally comfortable with putting Matt on par with Merlyn. Merlyn is really underestimated, but his feats of beating the crap out of S1 Arrow, when S1 Arrow could brutalize 20 or so mercenaries much easier than Daredevil can, and toying with Nyssa while she was trying to kill him and somehow disarming her sword in the middle of the fight without her noticing, are more than enough to threaten Matt's level of skill.

Now here's the thing. Daredevil's best feat is his performance against the superhuman assassin Elektra. Elektra can throw men like toys, bullet time, and she's a master assassin. Okay. In Legends S1, Sara had a similar performance against the superhuman assassin Pilgrim. Pilgrim could throw men like toys, bullet time, and she was a master assassin.

So, I think this would mean Sara and Matt are floating around on the same tier... but Darhk toyed with that Sara like she was a complete idiot. He made a mockery of her skill without even trying. So Darhk > Daredevil? Sounds reasonable to me.

Saying Pilgrim and Elektra must be comparably skilled just because they're both assassins isn't all that valid when Elektra actually has skill showings.

Avatar image for the_justiciar
The_Justiciar

16136

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

@arcus1 said:

Saying Pilgrim and Elektra must be comparably skilled just because they're both assassins isn't all that valid when Elektra actually has skill showings.

Avatar image for nickzambuto
nickzambuto

29288

Forum Posts

5083

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@nickzambuto said:

So, I think this would mean Sara and Matt are floating around on the same tier... but Darhk toyed with that Sara like she was a complete idiot. He made a mockery of her skill without even trying. So Darhk > Daredevil? Sounds reasonable to me.

But Sara beat Darhk later. Inconsistencies abound.

That's called improving. It took Sara the entire season before she was ready to challenge Darhk again. Daredevil is not the only character who can improve with experience. The point is that that early Sara already had the feats to match Daredevil, yet she was no match for Darhk. The Sara who beat Darhk would therefore beat Daredevil as well.

@arcus1 said:
@nickzambuto said:

After Defenders, I am finally comfortable with putting Matt on par with Merlyn. Merlyn is really underestimated, but his feats of beating the crap out of S1 Arrow, when S1 Arrow could brutalize 20 or so mercenaries much easier than Daredevil can, and toying with Nyssa while she was trying to kill him and somehow disarming her sword in the middle of the fight without her noticing, are more than enough to threaten Matt's level of skill.

Now here's the thing. Daredevil's best feat is his performance against the superhuman assassin Elektra. Elektra can throw men like toys, bullet time, and she's a master assassin. Okay. In Legends S1, Sara had a similar performance against the superhuman assassin Pilgrim. Pilgrim could throw men like toys, bullet time, and she was a master assassin.

So, I think this would mean Sara and Matt are floating around on the same tier... but Darhk toyed with that Sara like she was a complete idiot. He made a mockery of her skill without even trying. So Darhk > Daredevil? Sounds reasonable to me.

Saying Pilgrim and Elektra must be comparably skilled just because they're both assassins isn't all that valid when Elektra actually has skill showings.

Sure, but don't act like Pilgrim was unimpressive while Elektra was super awesome.

The accolade of being the most feared bounty hunter across time next to Chronos, with centuries of training and experience, is a helluva lot more noteworthy than Elektra being just one of the Hand's best fighters. All of time >>> New York City. Pilgrim was able to react to every Legend surrounding her and attacking simultaneously; this includes three bullet-speed blasts, the cold gun, the heat gun, and Atom's hard light blasts. She caught and froze all three of those at the same time. Her reflexes were very superhuman. Meanwhile I don't even think that was a real bullet timing feat by Elektra, let alone putting her on par with reacting to three separate bullet speed projectiles at once. And what is the greatest thing she's ever done with skill? She literally didn't do anything in DDS2, all that it took was one or two Yakuza to match her. This isn't lowballing, that was literally how every fight went. And now everyone is hyped up about her killing 10 ninja in a few seconds, but that was only after her stats were increased. Pilgrim could have killed 10 ninja too, no doubt about it.

Avatar image for arcus1
Arcus1

28195

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@nickzambuto:

Sara could challenge Darhk in all of their fights after the first one

Feats>reputation, especially since being their most feared assassin doesn't inherently mean she's the most skilled in h2h. She has powers to make her the most feared, in h2h she was less threatening than Chronos.

Her powers were superhuman, doesn't mean she'd be able to physically block bullets without using her powers

Considering Pilgrim has basically no skill showings beyond being less skilled than Sara, anything's better than that. And just because Elektra got enhanced stats doesn't mean she can no longer show skill-seemed quite skilled in the fight I saw of her vs Daredevil

Avatar image for nickzambuto
nickzambuto

29288

Forum Posts

5083

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@arcus1 said:

@nickzambuto:

Sara could challenge Darhk in all of their fights after the first one

Feats>reputation, especially since being their most feared assassin doesn't inherently mean she's the most skilled in h2h. She has powers to make her the most feared, in h2h she was less threatening than Chronos.

Her powers were superhuman, doesn't mean she'd be able to physically block bullets without using her powers

Considering Pilgrim has basically no skill showings beyond being less skilled than Sara, anything's better than that. And just because Elektra got enhanced stats doesn't mean she can no longer show skill-seemed quite skilled in the fight I saw of her vs Daredevil

So what? You say that as if their next fight happened immediately. They didn't fight again until halfway through the season. And Sara didn't actually beat him until the end. That's gradual improvement. And guess what? Even if they did fight again immediately, it would not take away from the fact that Darhk toyed with the Sara from that point in time.

Yes, Pilgrim doesn't have many hand-to-hand feats. But so what, she's obviously skilled, and it's not like she needs fantastic feats to live up to the amazingly unimpressive Elektra. The fact is, I don't need to prove that Sara is on par with Matt. I just need to prove that Matt can't effortlessly humiliate Sara like she was a complete idiot, which is what Darhk did. And fighting Pilgrim definitely proves that. If Elektra was more skilled than the very bottom tier of being struggled by just one or two Yakuza, I'd admit, Darhk will have a problem with anyone who can challenge her. But since her skill is so remarkably mediocre, all she really has is stats. If Elektra is better than Pilgrim, it isn't by much. You say that Elektra showed skill while fighting Daredevil. I'm not sure how that bolsters Daredevil, using him as the measuring stick for himself. That's like if I said Pilgrim showed skill while fighting Sara.

The point is that Daredevil is not on a level where he can effortlessly toy with a master like Sara, ergo he is not on par with Darhk.

Avatar image for arcus1
Arcus1

28195

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@nickzambuto:

Based on descriptions of Defenders I've read, Elektra got trained by Alexandra, who turned her into a human weapon, meaning her skill logically progressed from before her death (where she could range from struggling with Yakuza to killing multiple hand ninjas and matching Stick). Sure, she wasn't great, but at least she had some good showings, like beating up adults as a girl, taking on multipe ninjas at once, fighting evenly with Stick, while Pilgrim has none of that. And honestly, I think Elektra's stronger than Pilgrim too, though Pilgrim might be more durable via being bulletproof (but somehow got stabbed by kid Rip?)

Avatar image for nickzambuto
nickzambuto

29288

Forum Posts

5083

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@arcus1 said:

@nickzambuto:

Based on descriptions of Defenders I've read, Elektra got trained by Alexandra, who turned her into a human weapon, meaning her skill logically progressed from before her death (where she could range from struggling with Yakuza to killing multiple hand ninjas and matching Stick). Sure, she wasn't great, but at least she had some good showings, like beating up adults as a girl, taking on multipe ninjas at once, fighting evenly with Stick, while Pilgrim has none of that. And honestly, I think Elektra's stronger than Pilgrim too, though Pilgrim might be more durable via being bulletproof (but somehow got stabbed by kid Rip?)

You just said that feats matter more than reputation. Either I ignore the factor of Elektra's training with Alexandra, or I acknowledge it, and just remind you that Pilgrim's training and experience is still way better. But what you want is to ignore all of Pilgrim's accolades because she has few feats, but acknowledge Elektra's, which is just not fair.

Matching Stick isn't impressive because he has no feats besides losing to early Matt, and killing 40 ninjas who weren't even fighting back isn't impressive.

Avatar image for arcus1
Arcus1

28195

Forum Posts

18

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@nickzambuto:

What have we seen of Pilgrim's training? Nothing

If you wanna compare to Chronos, Chronos did better than Pilgrim against Sara

Plus, the point of that was to say she logically improved since Daredevil. Beyond that I haven't seen enough

The ninjas were fighting back when she and Matt first fought them and when they came to capture Stick

Avatar image for sy8000
Sy8000

37636

Forum Posts

24

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@nickzambuto:

That's called improving. It took Sara the entire season before she was ready to challenge Darhk again. Daredevil is not the only character who can improve with experience. The point is that that early Sara already had the feats to match Daredevil, yet she was no match for Darhk. The Sara who beat Darhk would therefore beat Daredevil as well.

But she beat Merlyn a few episode later and Merlyn was apparently a dead equal for Darhk the whole time. Unless she did all her improving in a few episodes and Merlyn also improved (which frankly makes no sense), it's just an inconsistent hierarchy.

Avatar image for the_wspanialy
the_wspanialy

695

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26  Edited By the_wspanialy

Legion of Doom.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
sirfizzwhizz

43569

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

CW inconsisticies are abound in Legends. Remember how Savage was a Flash threat? Turns out Heatwave and Sarah can one on one his ass by the end of Legends LMAO.