CW Vandal Savage vs MCU Captain America

@db_king: I will CaV you right now and I wouldn't even have to use cap to prove evrything you said wrong.

Let's do this.

@paytience: Anything you can show in a cav you can show here without the support of cheerleaders.

Prove caps stats are higher than a mirk user

Prove caps hand to hand is superior to ras, arrow, damien, deathstroke or savage

Prove caps has as much experience as savage

Prove caps can hurt savage who can't feel pain has a healing factor and is immortal

Prove caps can get past savage magic that just blocked the blast of a staff that destroyed a city

Prove caps is fast enough to keep up with someone who tagged the flash even tho he couldn't tag quicksilver who's slower than barry. When savage dodges bullets not hide behind a shield.

Prove caps shield gives him an advantage when it didnt over a military trained winter soldier.

Instead of challenging me to a cav how about you prove your point here.

@db_king: Because you're an obvious wanker ignoring half the stuff being posted and all semblance of logic, and I want you to have face and deal with feats and performances directly without any roundabout crap. You the ignore circumstance of every feat that you yourself have presented and I wanna yank that carpet out from under you without there being any excuses.

That's why.

Great job ignoring the clear statement of flash being max mach 2 in that very episode though.

@paytience: So instead of simply doing what I asked and posting the feats I asked you insult me, lowball barry again but you want me to debate one on one with you?

No. Lol no roundabout? Where are the feats I asked you for? Regardless of how you feel about my post, the fact that you didn't just post feats means you don't have any. But you're telling me I'm running from you and posting stuff out of context? Why don't you specify and explain the context here for us all to see then? Or are ad hominems all you good for?

Instead of proving caps can dodge bullets or tag speedsters you reply with Barry's mach 2. Again ignoring his feats aside what does this have to do with caps and his speed? Nothing. Your repsonse and every single caps fan in this thread has been to lowball rather than post a feat.

Dont like ghosts being trained by league assasins and carrying guns? Just say the choreography sucks. Don't like arrow being able to kill the worlds greatest assassin? Say gsp a merc with no feats flipping is more impressive than stopping and restarting hearts.

Don't get mad at me because I'm not swayed by pack trolling and namecalling. Savage wins. Don't get mad at me because you want caps to win but can't prove it.

Lol yeah caps stomps the inmortal with a healing factor, bullet time speed and magic and skills to take down league assassins who themselves stomped mirk users.

Flash is tagged by countless metahumans that have no fighting ability or speed. In fact, its almost expected of him now. Vandal tagging the flash hardly speaks to his skill. You can say the ghosts are trained by the league or by damien who is feared by the league, but feats tell something else. For example, the league is a group of highly trained assassins, yes.. how do you explain laurel taking on a few of of them? Shes been trained by two people for at MAX a total of a year. Not only that, but she is clearly terrible at fighting compared to the likes of ollie and even diggle, yet she manages to beat two or three members while getting tagged like 4 times. Ghosts may be trained, but they have no feats to suggest they are better than the league, and no reason to be. Do you see damien ever caring about his men or his willingness to train them? Ras trained the league to be assassins, damien just needs people to do his grunt work. By feats, ghosts are fodder, and the fact that ollie has trouble taking care of them speaks wonders to his downgrade. Ollie, even if we assume he was as good as he was, manged to fight savage. Cap is >= ollie in h2h, plus has a shield to block every energy blast or knife throw savage can throw at him. and incase youre wondering, the knives arent faster than bullets, but are maybe close. with caps durability and strength, explain how savage can take him down

Still waiting on you showing anyone in team Arrow beating a Mirakuru user without special circumstances or weaponry.

I know it's not gonna come because you don't actually post feats, but I can still call you out on it.

Plenty of feats for Cap have been posted already.

@db_king: Never said WS beats Savage in knife throwing,we ve never seen WS use throwing knives (as far as i can remember).I said that his combat skills with a knife were significant,and that he was performing his attacks much faster than any of the CW fighters have shown (except Reverse Flash and Zoom),and Steve was fast enough to block all these attacks.

Savage,as well as everybody else,tagging Flash happened just for the plot,in one scene you have Barry catching bullets shot from 6-7 meters far,but then he somehow cant grab throwing knives which are moving slower than actual bullets? You could argue though that this is due to his injury and he hasn't fully recovered yet,but if that'sthe case,tagging a depowered Flash is not that much of a feat.

Now,when it comes to strength,Vandal's kicks dont send people flying like Cap's do and Steve's strength feats are better than what Savage has shown.

Now,how i personally think this goes down is:

They meet up,Savage is gonna talk so mumbo jumbo shit to Steve about immortality or something,then he will use his throwing knives,Steve is (most likely) going to block them with his shield and then it goes down to H2H which Cap takes because 1)He is stronger and 2)He has the shield.

I agree that Savage is a beast WHEN compared to the common CW characters,but pitting him against enemies like Cap,Mirakuru Deathstroke and humans with enhanced physicals better than his own is most likely gonna end up in his doom.

Hell,even Luke Cage (MCU) could probably take him down.But i still don't really understand why Savage seems to be so durable,even though they haven't said anything about him being so.

P.S.:All the times a speedster has been tagged in the CW was because they were either standing still,or were caught off guard or just for the plot.You can't take the scene where Oliver shoots RF as proof that he tagged a speedster cause he was standing still in the first place.Nobody has been shown to tag a speedster while the later is on the move,and even if that happened and i missed it,it most likely happened so the plot could progress

@randomsid: well I c ur point but can you calc me as to how much it would take to ko him from the pain he felt when he was shot with an arrow? Or wait he did jump out of a window from a multi story building and disappeared before barry and oliver could see him. So he wasn't koed from that. That would probably be the best way to calc his impact resistance.

@thenoobstomper: yeah you're right about the speedster tagging. Besides If a character tags a speedster who is on the move that's a feat for the character who tagged the speedster, not a negative on the speedster (in most cases).

Every instance of someone tagging Flash can't just be dismissed as plot. In Vandal's case, it seems to be a reaction speed feat for Vandal. Flash was able to catch the knives, but Vandal timed a second throw to catch Flash from behind as he was saving the others-all before Oliver's arrow reached him. Reaction feat.

What about when Cap doesn't have his shield in round 1?

Savage is so durable because he's immortal

@thenoobstomper:

Thanks noob for proving my point once again.

Yo didn't list a single feat for caps or bucky. Not one. Your entire paragraph was just lowballing arrowverse and you expecting me to respond to it. A typical debating tactic that goes on this site.

And far as im concerned savage won this days ago. At this point i don't care about anyones opinion voting for caps because everyone voting for caps has no feats and wants to lowball.

@arcus:

"Still waiting on you showing anyone in team Arrow beating a Mirakuru user without special circumstances or weaponry."

I'm still waiting on you to post some dang feats instead of low balling . They beat mirk users with their standard weapons and cure shots. But apparently in your mind their strength speed durability and senses advantages stop existing when they fought team arrow? When gold fought arrow?when the magician fought mirk users to save thea? Did he and arrow have a cure then?

Lol were their stats negated before being hit and stabbed by cure shots? Like i said go lowball someone whos willing to sit through it. Me? Me I need feats. You dont have them then don't bother.

I've been posting scan after scan video after video so go tell that lie somewhere else. No new feats have been posted for caps since page 2 or 3 and they were all proven to be inferior. Heres your chance to prove me wrong.

Instead of lowballing

POST CAPS FEATS NO LOW BALLING POST CAPS FEATS IS THAT HARD????

WHERE ARE THEY??

SHOW ME CAPS DODGING BULLETS ?? Hitting speedsters don't tell me ohhh barry sucks show me caps hitting a speedsters dodging bullets

Show me him fighting someone with centuries experince.

Show me hin fighting magic

Does no one here know how debating works? Here's a hint lowball after lowball isn't debating

@arcus: Deadpool is also immortal,yet he aint durable at all.Immortality and durability are not inter-connected attributes.The Olympian gods (mythology)were said to be immortal,but they could get pierced by any sharp object and get damaged by it.

@db_king What feat do i have to list to prove Cap is stronger than current Savage? The fact that he blitzes or kicks people and sends them flying meters away? The fact that he stopped a motorcycle moving at relatively high speed,rotated it the opposite way from where it was moving (i cant explain with in proper words,sorry) and send it also flying? That he got punched by Ultron to the head and shook it off? The fact that he can push a bulldozer several meters across a field with relative ease much faster than Mike did in AoS?

What feats does Savage have that put him on par with Cap? The only thing he has going for him is his throwing knives.We haven't seen him fight anyone with physicals on his levels and beyond.Yes,he did hit Flash with the throwing knives that but counts more as tactics for me than reflexes.He already knew what the Flash could do and that he would try to catch the knives,so he threw the last knive autoseconds after the last one,and he through it in the direction at which he threw the previous knife.The only reflex points Savage gets is catching arrows,which has been replicated by Malcolm,Slade and Ra's if i remember correctly.

And last,Cap has the shield,which will probably counter the throwing knives.

Savage has a strong advantages in his speed/reaction times, and he knows how to use that advantage in combination with his martial arts/strategic skill. Figuring out a way to take down The Flash on the drop of a dime, by targeting his friends with throwing knives instead of The Flash himself, knives that move nearly as fast as bullets, that he knows The Flash will catch, and then keeping track of The Flash in motion and finally targeting him with another throwing knife once his attention is directed away, all while still having enough time to catch two of Oliver's arrows right in front of his chest. Savage coordinated and performed multiple moves all in a time span that Captain America likely wouldn't have even been able to react to.

And unlike Captain America, Vandal Savage is a legitimate bullet timer, as in a person who is so fast, they can dodge a bullet fired at almost point blank range, literally moving faster than the bullet itself. He was also deflecting loads of bullets AND arrows simultaneously using just his staff, both fired by expert marksman (Diggle and Thea).

Vandal is like a grandmaster of martial arts, he has over 4,000 years of experience training and learning from the greatest masters in the history of... well, history, so honestly Captain America is going to have a seriously hard time keeping up with this guy, regardless of his strength/durability advantage.

Honestly Vandal was so OP, I have a hard time picturing Cap fighting him on even ground. Soloing Diggle, Laurel, and Thea all at once in like three seconds without getting touched, using something that's not even a proper melee weapon, is skill that I can't see Cap replicating.

@thenoobstomper:

"What feat do i have to list to prove Cap is stronger than current Savage?"

Lmfao when did I say prove caps is stronger than savage? Quote me saying that. I Said prove caps is stronger than mirk users, who team arrow stomped. Savage stomped a team of skilled fighters who took out an army of captain America's.

It does not matter what his stats are he is not stronger faster more durable than a mirk user. If a mirk user could not beat arrow, Merlin or team arrow then wtf makes you think caps is going beat the guy who stomped the whole team plus flash?

On top of that wtf makes you think caps is going to hurt a guy who has healing factor and doesn't feel pain?

Are you just gonna spam omg he through a Motorcycle!!!!!

This is what matters if you don't have the following don't tag me I'm not interested.

Post caps fighting anyone as skilled as arrow or team arrow, i.e pressure point techniques, can stop and restart, hearts ninja assasins skills, beat the worlds greatest assassin and marksman. What are Steve's skills? Name the skill set of fighters hes beaten. Why is GSP ON ARROWS LEVEL????? Why is bucky with 12 kills on arrows level?

Post caps being superior to mirk users

Post caps tagging speedsters and dodging bullets

Post caps being immune to magic

...you haven't posted any videos of them beating Mirakuru users. Or even any pictures (if that's all you can seem to pull together)

The cure arrows are like kryptonite for the Mirakuru users

The only reason Ollie beat Gold was because of environmental factors. He couldn't beat him under normal conditions.

Are we honestly gonna try to pretend that tagging Barry takes incredible speed all the time?

Yeah, Ollie tagged Flash, through prep, surprise, and a degree of Flash underestimating him.

And don't try to pretend like Ollie stood a chance against Reverse Flash without the others.

But if you want

Still waiting on proof of team Arrow stomping mirakuru users

Not to mention that the average Mirakuru user isn't remotely skilled enough to be compared to Cap

Vandal can be pierced by attacks too-got hit by arrows and such. He can just recover from it.

@arcus: I now consider you near randomsid level and I'm a post away from ignoring You all together

First of all lets cut right to your quicksilver scan.

Lmfao quicksilver was already knocked down and was out of it from trying to catch thors hammer and falling and hitting his head. He use zero super speed. He already tagged steve twice before and after hitting his head. So why would you post that gif trying to lie and say caps tagged a speedster like I haven't or anyone else hasn't seen that movie? You're that desperate?

Lmfao was flash moving when he got maced? No then shes one of many people who. tagged the flash while just standing there and not using super speed So what does that mean??? Hmmm I think it means you're lowballing.

The rest of your post not even worth the effort.

I dont need to post videos ive already posted and are easily accessible on youtube. Stop wasting my time like you Dont know team arrow fought mirk users.

Savage stomps

@arcus:

One dead mirakuru users without cure arrow and environmental help. Captian only hit quick when he was already down getting up so....

@killers10333:

THEN NAME THEM SINCE NO ONE ELSE CAN. WHO??? Atom smasher who ran across a city with flash? Who? Doctor light who shot light? Nope barry dodged that? Vixen? Nope super speed. Oh wait I dont care because guess what BARRY IS STILL FASTER THAN STEVE OR ANYONE STEVE HAS FOUGHT. SO SAYING OH MAN BARRY GETS TAGGED ALL THE TIME DOES NOT NEGATE BARRYS SPEED FEATS. IT DOES NOT MAKE CAPTIAN AMERICA SUDDENLY FAST ENOUGH TO DODGE BULLETS. CAPS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANK CAPS. POST SOME FEATS.

Stop LOWBALLING SOMEONE WHO DODGES LIGHTNING BECAUSE YOU DONT HAVE ANY SPEED FEATS FOR CAPTAIN AMERICA. Is that clear enough for you?

Everything else same thing.

Post feats or don't tag me.

Lowball ghost Lowball barry. WE GET IT YOU DONT HAVE ANY PEOPLE AS SKILLED AS LEAGUE MEMBERS IN THE MCU SO MAKE FUN OF CHOREOGRAPHY WE GET IT. POST SOME FEATS.

Where are Steve's feats???

Why don't you people just admit he loses instead of wasting your time failing to lowball?

TELL ME HOW STEVE PUTS DOWN AN IMMORTAL WITH A HEALING FACTOR WHO DOESN'T FEEL PAIN DODGES BULLETS TAGS SPEEDSTERS AND HAS THE SKILL TO PUT DOWN THE WORLDS GREATEST FIGHTERS. USES MAGIC CAPABLE OF BLOCKING A STAFF THAT DESTROYED A CITY.

WHAT ARE YOUR FEATS??????????????????

@db_king: My dear friend,i am gonna be honest with you.Dont take it personally but you are an idiot if you really think Savage can take on Captain with the shield.

Dont get me into comparing Steve with Mirk users cause thats an entirely different argument.

The point is that Steve is physically superior to Vandal except probably the pain threshold.Vandal is immortal and has great pain resistance BUT that doesnt mean he doesn't get damaged.If Steve plucks his shield in-between Vandal's neck and shoulder,Savage ain't gonna walk that off like it was nothing.Steve doesn't need to kill Savage he just has to either KO him or imobolize him.From what we have seen so far,i am saying it again,Savage has NORMAL HUMAN DURABILITY but augmented pain threshold.And thanks to his healing factor (which i dont recall being mentioned yet) he recoveres quite quickly from arrows and bullets.

Tagging Barry is not a feat.Barry is getting tagged by every single enemy he faces for the sake of the plot cause if they were to go by logic in the show,only other speedsters should be able to tag Barry.Do you recall Oliver vs Flash fight? It was as clear as a summer day that in reality Oliver can't hold a candle to Barry cause the later is a speedster but the fight only happened to pleaze the fans.And then the fandom began going "yo,Oliver beat Barry,he beat the Flash" and then later in the season when he fights RF and RF kicks off the nanites,it takes him less than 1 second to put Oliver down,something Barry could have also done with ease.

Barry in the show knows Savage is an immortal but,for the sake of plot advancement,he is not just grabbing a knife and proceed to cut Savage's nerves so he loses control of his body which would make Vandal look really silly and not threatening at all.That is also a reason that Quicksilver had to die in AoU.Having a speedster (which is an overpowered character) in the team is too much in reality,and QS never really got tagged except when he wasn't focused and when he intentionally got in the way to save Hawkeye and that little bastard.

Back to the main point though,CAP IS VASTLY SUPERIOR TO VANDAL WHEN IT COMES TO STRENGTH,so it doesnt really matter how skilled Vandal is,the skill gap between the two isn't enough to counter the raw strength advantage Cap has over Vandal.Steve could just smack him with his shield and send him flying right and left until Vandal passes out.

Also,Vandal taking on "team Arrow" is not that much of a feat either cause when you are freaking immortal you dont have to worry about getting him by battons on the back or shot since neither of these things cause significant pain,and also,Savage is physically superior to every character in Arrow team.This is like saying that a 50% power Mirakuru Deathstroke taking on the Arrow team is a feat.Its not a feat,cause its an enhanced person vs some skilled commoners.And i still can't take Laurel as a serious fighter.

BUT THE FACT ALONE THAT CAP IS MUCH STRONGER THAN SAVAGE IS ENOUGH PROOF BY ITSELF THAT THIS FIGHT WILL BE WON BY CAP(IF HE HAS HIS SHIELD).If you cant figure out why,i aint gonna write anything more to you sir.Just think about yourself,having trained in Taek Won Do for 5 years and another guy who has been training for 1 year (you being Savage the other being Cap) but the later packs enough strength to easily shatter your leg bone in a kick.Since both of you have foundamental knowledge of combat,you have no answer for his superior strength.When he kicks,you will try to block but fail cause that bro is much much stronger than you that your defensive capabilities and skills are of 0 importance

@thenoobstomper: I take it personally and im flagging you for it

Your entire wall of text didnt have a single captain feat. Not one. THE ONE THING I ASKED FOR A FEAT FROM CAPTAIN AMERICA THAT PUT HIM ON MIRIKURU USERS STATS.

WHERE ARE THEY?? WHY DIDN'T YOU POST THEM???? IF MIRKS CANT BEAT TEAM ARROW WITHOUT FLASH AND THEY HAD SUPERIOR STATS TO STEVE THEN SAVAGE WOULD MURDER STOMP CAPS. WHO NEARLY SOLOD TEAM ARROW WITH THE FLASH.

But youre calling someone an idiot when you cant follow a simple instruction? YOU CANT POST A SINGLE FEAT. But you can lowball barry for a whole paragraph?

Savage stomps no feats for caps means you're wasting my time. Don't tag me without feats I'll ignore it. im done with the caps wank.

@dravengrey: finally someone can actually post a feat. Not bad, but still, that's just a random Mirakuru fodder with no particularly notable skill, and it was clear Malcom couldn't match him stat-wise.

You need to learn a new word. Posting facts isn't lowballing, it's showing that tagging Barry doesn't have to indicate great speed. It could just mean Barry's being stupid or not going as fast as he could.

So we're the only ones who need to post videos or feats? But you don't have to? Lol nah

I get it, you're a cw fanboy who thinks Felicity could beat Ultron with a laptop. At least admit it

You're obsessed with flawed ABC logic. And you still haven't posted feats of team Arrow "stomping" Mirakuru users in a way that would work against Cap.

@arcus:

Posting a fact?

You literally just tried to lie and say caps tagged quicksilver. So no you're not posting facts.

You keep saying barry got tagged like it negates his speed feats. barry got tagged.....WHILE NOT RUNNING. DONT YOU THINK THATS WORTH MENTIONING??????

THE FACT THAT YOU DONT MEANS YOU ARE A LOW BALLER

AGAIN POST SCANS OF CAPS DODGING BULLETS AND OR HITTING SOMEONE WHO HAS DODGED LIGHTNING, BULLETS AND NUKES. STOP TELLING ME BARRYS BEEN HIT BECAUSE QUICKSILVER GOT HIT AND DIED...GUESS WHAT STILL COULDN'T BE HIT BY CAPS

SO WHATS YOUR ARGUMENT WHAT DOES SAYIN BARRY GETS HIT PROVE OTHER THAN PEOPLE HAVE HIT BARRY??? While not in motion no less. CAN CAPS? HAS HE HIT A SPEEDSTER?

No?????

Then your entire argument is a

LOWWWWWWW

BALLLLL

There is no abc logic. Savage made team arrOw look like statues. He hit a speedster and he dodged bullets. Stop trying to act like hes slow BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE GIFS OF CAPS DODGING BULLETS AND TAGGING SPEEDSTERS.

All your argument is

A LOWWWWWWWW

BALLL

He wasn't running when Weather Wizard tried to hit him and Joe with lightning, still avoided that. Are you gonna say that Everyman is faster than lightning?

So when has Arrow tagged Flash while Flash was actually using his speed well?

When has Team Arrow stomped Mirakuru users in a way that would work against Cap?

@arcus:

You've posted ZERO SPEED FEATS FOR CAPTIAN AMERICA. HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO ASK?????

So let's recap

You have NO SCANS OF CAPS DODGING BULLETS OR HITTING SPEEDSTERS. LOW BALL BARRY ALL YOU WANT KID. Strike three and you're out. I TOLD You stop with the low balling and post feats. You can't so we have nothing left to discuss.

On top of that you just got exposed trying to lie about steve hitting quicksilver. So lying and lowballing, gets an ignore from me. You're not my cup of tea.

I never lied about Steve hitting Quicksilver. He hit him, did he not? Never said he tagged Quicksilver while Quicksilver was using his speed.

I've already posted a feat of him blocking bullets. You, on the other hand, have yet to show team Arrow stomping Mirakuru users in a way that would work against Cap. Hypocrite.

Is lowballing the only word you know? I don't think you even know what it means

@arcus: LMFAO IGNORE WHAT EVIDENCE?? BARRY WAS NOT RUNNING..LMFAO. It's just you lowballing YOU ARE A LOW BALLLLLLLERRRRRRR4RR

OH SOOO YOU HAVE NO OPINION ON WHO WINS???

You're just JUST WANKING AND LYING ABOUT CAPS FEATS AND LOWBALLING AND HAVE NO OPINION? IM MATTURE ENOUGH TO START IGNORING LOWBALLERS LIKE YOURSELF GOODBYE dude for real this time. Yiu have nothing tp offer...and im done giving you a chance to proce me wrong with feats instesd of lies and lowballing.

@arcus Don't feed him. Arguing with him is pointless. You'll have more success talking to a brick wall

@db_king: I already told you that comparing Cap to Mirakuru users is pointless here.And since you think team Arrow could take down a proper mirakuru user,how come they couldn't take Deathstroke on Mirakuru down? Because every other mirk user was a fodder and was nothing else but a skilless "pet" so to say.Deathstroke (and possibly Roy) were the only real mirakuru soldiers and i dont recall team Arrow beating either of them without the vaccine.

You talking to me about facts is pretty rediculous at this stage because i have given you all the proof required to see that Vandal would lose to Cap with shield but you are either a Savage fanboy or you are not competent enough to understand what i am saying.I bet every single person here who is in their right mind can see that this is a clear Cap victory.And i am not low balling Barry,THE CW ITSELF DOES.

And no sir,i am not trying to offend you,i am just calling things as they really are.If you can't cope with reality and you want to nulify the meaning of my words by "flagging" me,so be it.

@gxrevolution96 is right. I've been indulging you too long now

@arcus: Just ignore him,he is a moron.

And yes,i mean moron as the term for a person with a mental age between 8 and 12.IF YOU SIR (db_king) find that word offensive,then i dont really give a damn cause thats what you are and i know of no other words to describe such a person.

Cap takes this handily imo

Without more showing that we won't get because he is dead now(unless Malcom finds a way to bring him back) nope, can't really calc it. Also you can't really count the falling out of the window as a durability feat, we never saw him hit the ground. For all we know he could have caught onto a balcony a floor below them and swung onto that one and exited through that room. The fact is we know he feels pain because he showed it, he never showed more durability than any other character, the only things he has going for himself in this battle is the fact that he is immortal(unless killed with his staff or something else that has the same meteor rock pieces that his staff has) and that he is good with his knives. I'm not saying Cap wins and I'm not saying Savage wins. I'm saying that it is very possible for Savage to be KOed. And I know you aren't the one that mentioned it, but I actually consider the hitting Flash with a knife a low showing for Flash, not a high showing for Vandal. Flash, while he did struggle with 3 bullets, he still caught them when he was unaware they were about to be shot. There is literally zero reason for him to struggle with 6 knives that cannot be thrown anywhere near as fast as the bullets were shot.

God..

And many many more time hes been tagged.. hitting him is NOT impressive

his kick sends ollie like 5 feet

heres cap dodging more impressive hits, and a foot shield push sending batroc flying over 10 feet

lets see savage grab that shield

heres another kick by rogers sending someone flying over 10 feet

heres him reacting to bullets, which travel faster than his knives. If he throws them upclose, rogers will also see his hand movements and end him

And heres what happens when savage tries to h2h steve with knives

And for the record

Laurel fighting one league member and stalemating

in the background you see laurel fighting a couple ghost members, at the end of the scene team arrow is left standing with all ghosts down

hence, 2 ghosts < one league member

So oliver losing or struggling against ghost DOES mean he got a downgrade. Now stop

Savage when he throws his first knife at hawk girl you see that they slow down like when he catches bullets. Not instead of a effortless catch. it's close it really seems like barry doesn't react. Also we relaise savage has no pain limit and is immortal i think by this alone he takes cap 6/10.

@jedixman Could you please monitor this thread due to DB_Kings reaction i see a possible flame war.

@killers10333:

Course the thing with Laurel could also just mean Laurel has improved, which would make sense. Plus the second gif involves all of Team Arrow, not just Laurel

He's definitely gonna be back for Legends of Tomorrow

Considering the speed of Vandal's knives and his reaction time in comparison to Ollie's arrow (ie the knives were going faster than the arrow and Vandal had the speed to throw a second knife before Ollie's arrow reached him), I'd say it's fairly safe to consider it a good feat for Vandal.

@arcus: I'm not saying he didn't throw them at a decent speed, but the fact is that Flash(even though he is confirmed at only Mach 2 top speed) has caught 3 bullets that he was unaware were being fired, so him having trouble with the knives is more a low showing for him than a high showing for Savage.

Vandal Savage I feel like he's the winner

HITTING FLASH IS NOT A FEAT! Can you Flash fanboys get that through your system. He gets tagged by regular humans consistently.

@db_king: You're done. Once again, you have no argument. "Whah whah whah, look at me, ignoring everything, whah whah whah. My choice wins, whah whah whah, your choice loses, whah whah whah." Nothing but stool.

@arcus: as for it being all of team arrow, it looked at if they handled their own ghosts.. and yes laurel could have improved but she still seems lacking and after the entire show i find it hard to believe she improved much..so at best id say a ghost = league member which makes sense as they are fodder

Maybe, though it's not like he had extreme trouble with the knives. I don't see why it couldn't just be a good showing for Savage. Does it make perfect sense? Not exactly. But it's hardly the most unlikely thing in the show

@chazz85: Savage having no pain limit is not something that will come in Handy against Cap.The only good thing it will offer him is he wont be in pain when Steve splits his ass in half with his shield

Cw vendal savage

Lol just look at the people supporting caps ararguments or should I say lack thereof.

NOT ONE SINGLE CAPTAIN AMERICA FEAT

When your entire argument consists of not posting any feats to support your argument and trying and failing to post low showings for every single character associated with the arrow verse YOU ARE LOW BALLING. Period.

It's pointless to debate people whos only argument is to say everyone in the rival universe sucks because all you end up doing is defending those characters and not debate the topic

I really would love to see these same exact people go into a flash comic thread and claim flash getting tagged by humans isn't a low showing and how his ftl feats should be ignored because people like captain cold and deathstroke has tagged him.

They can't provide asingle feat for caps that explains how savage loses.

How does caps beat his immortality and healing factor and ability to not feel pain? Ie take arrows through the chest and keep on fighting.

How does caps beat his magic that blocked attacks capable of destroying a city??

How does caps react to someone who is a casual bullet timer and has tagged the flash IN MOTION when caps can't hit quicksilver who's slower than flash???

How does caps strength matter when Arrow and Merlyn solod mirk users who throw cars and punch through reinforced steel but couldn't defeat Savage????

How is caps superior in hand to hand when all he's fought were mercs and oliver was killing mercs before becoming arrow???

How is winter soldier ultron and the leaper more skilled than Ras, Arrow, Spartan and hawkman?? What are their feats compared to killing thousands and centuries of experience??? Fighting since Egyptian times and was the commander for one of the most revered battle tacticians in the history of man????

They can not answer these questions with feats so they low ball. They post low showings which isn't even allowed in debates. They post lies like acus did trying to lie about steve tagging quicksilver.

Savage stomps. He clearly stomps. But hey don't let feats and common sense stop people from saying steve solos the arrowverse anyway.

Wow. Reading through this thread is painful. I'm downright embarrassed for the site due to one participant in this thread.