CW Superman vs Reverse Flash

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The_Hajduk

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#52  Edited By The_Hajduk

@royal_warrior said:

Thawne never said he defeated superman he just said he's too fast for him furthermore if he did defeat Clark it could've just been a kyprtonite job

Furthermore him saying he fought Kara's cousin leaves a big gaping hole in Earth ones canon

Remember that Eobard comes from a completely different future where he and The Flash fought each other for years up until 2024. This simply implies that the Future Flash also made contact with Supergirl's Earth, and during one of their crossover events, Eobard met Superman. However they have never met in the current timeline.

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God_of_Batman

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#53  Edited By God_of_Batman

In my opinion Barry phasing through Kara in the first crossover is more than enough evidence to suggest Thawne will have no trouble phasing through Supes if he catches him off guard. However Clark can probably keep him on his toes regarding combat speed so I doubt he'd get the chance to do it. Also, the reason why Eobard doesn't just phase Kara's heart out for the operation is because he needs the thing in one piece, and it's not like he's just going to phase it into Overgirl's chest. He needs to surgically remove and implant the heart in Overgirl regardless so he'd still need the red sunlight. However he did imply that after the red sunlight had done its job he was still going to use his speed during the operation.

@the_hajduk said:
@royal_warrior said:

Thawne never said he defeated superman he just said he's too fast for him furthermore if he did defeat Clark it could've just been a kyprtonite job

Furthermore him saying he fought Kara's cousin leaves a big gaping hole in Earth ones canon

Remember that Eobard comes from a completely different future where he and The Flash fought each other for years up until 2024. This simply implies that the Future Flash also made contact with Supergirl's Earth, and during one of their crossover events, Eobard met Superman. However they have never met in the current timeline.

It's also possible that in the original Earth 1 timeline (where Thawne doesn't kill Barry's mum) that both Supergirl and Superman existed. This seems rather likely because Thawne's Gideon, who he would have acquired from the original timeline, almost let it slip that Barry was a founding member of the Justice League back in season 1 (also the Bruce Wayne name drop in Arrow further strengths the idea that there was a complete Justice League in Earth 1s original timeline)

My guess is that, in an attempt to prevent the League from ever being formed, Thawne went back in time and killed both Clark and Kara when they were in their pods as soon as they landed on earth, and then proceeded to go and kill Barry's mum. He would have found out Superman and Supergirl's secret identities the same way he found out that Barry was the Flash - by hacking Gideon.

EDIT: Thawne also managed to get to Earth-X on his own, so interdimensional travel is obviously not much a problem for him. It's entire possible he simply fought Superman on a different Earth and that Kara and Clark's pods never made it off Krypton on Earth 1.

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RampageTheFirst

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@rampagethefirst:

Leviathan is featless, this is absolutely in no way, shape or form proof that the Atom has equal durability to Superman. That claim in itself is utterly ridiculous.

When did I ever make the claim that he was equal in terms of durability with Superman? Leviathan in no shape or form is featless, yes he appeared for a couple of minutes but he was able to severely damage Atom and the Waverider which has tanked many hits from various space ships, the moment Leviathan became an issue is the moment he is no longer featless. I'd suggest you watch the fight again.

Now you're just making up the rules as you go. I'm not arguing that he phased through the suit, of course he did, his hand is what solidified inside of Ray's heart and that's what ultimately let him rip his heart out and kill him. The dent in Ray's suit is just an aesthetic to illustrate exactly what Eobard did, the same way Supergirl has had her shirt on fire multiple times in her show but never actually had it burn. The very nature of phasing doesn't have anything to do with limitless destructive capabilities like you're stating here, it's total speculation, all of it!

I'm not making up any rules, I'm just trying to reason with you but it seems like you're negating my points and swiping them away labeling them as invalid. Okay so, let me put what you're saying into perspective; Eobard phases through Ray's suit and solidified inside his heart? His whole hand is still inside Rays suit..If he were to solidify inside Rays chest, that would literally leave his whole arm vulnerable, I'd love to see you make some more stuff up as counter this. The dent in Ray's suit indicates that Eobard literally ripped it out..If you look at the clip again and maybe more carefully this time, you will see the dent is more or less to indicate that he ripped it out.

How am I supposed to disprove any of this when your points have no evidence to begin with? You've provided a biased and completely falsified account on how the Reverse-Flash phased The Atom and have shown completely baseless ideas of how phasing has been proven to work in the series, you're having pronoun trouble. YOU'RE the one with no evidence or scans to back up the assumption Eobard can one shot here

Pathetic attempt at turning the tables, my points have all the evidence they require, I literally provided you with clips of Barry being able to phase through Kryptonian skin, Eobard ripping Atoms heart out, Atom being durable enough to withstand blasts from Leviathan who damaged the Waverider which you then claim is featless. If anything, you seem to be the one having trouble bringing something worthwhile to the table, I actually have all the evidence I need to justify my theory. Even the vague claim Eobard made which weighs a ton in this argument, since everything is based on theory, there's an actual claim made by Eobard, regardless if it's true or not, compared to everything we have so far discussed, that claim alone destroys this whole argument.

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christianrapper

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@blackspidey2099: he said that he was faster. It was obvious that thawne was scared of overgirl. The kryptonians are on a different level than the rest of tje cw verse.

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GXrevs06

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#56  Edited By GXrevs06

@god_of_batman said:

In my opinion Barry phasing through Kara in the first crossover is more than enough evidence to suggest Thawne will have no trouble phasing through Supes if he catches him off guard. However Clark can probably keep him on his toes regarding combat speed so I doubt he'd get the chance to do it. Also, the reason why Eobard doesn't just phase Kara's heart out for the operation is because he needs the thing in one piece, and it's not like he's just going to phase it into Overgirl's chest. He needs to surgically remove and implant the heart in Overgirl regardless so he'd still need the red sunlight. However he did imply that after the red sunlight had done its job he was still going to use his speed during the operation.

@the_hajduk said:
@royal_warrior said:

Thawne never said he defeated superman he just said he's too fast for him furthermore if he did defeat Clark it could've just been a kyprtonite job

Furthermore him saying he fought Kara's cousin leaves a big gaping hole in Earth ones canon

Remember that Eobard comes from a completely different future where he and The Flash fought each other for years up until 2024. This simply implies that the Future Flash also made contact with Supergirl's Earth, and during one of their crossover events, Eobard met Superman. However they have never met in the current timeline.

It's also possible that in the original Earth 1 timeline (where Thawne doesn't kill Barry's mum) that both Supergirl and Superman existed. This seems rather likely because Thawne's Gideon, who he would have acquired from the original timeline, almost let it slip that Barry was a founding member of the Justice League back in season 1 (also the Bruce Wayne name drop in Arrow further strengths the idea that there was a complete Justice League in Earth 1s original timeline)

My guess is that, in an attempt to prevent the League from ever being formed, Thawne went back in time and killed both Clark and Kara when they were in their pods as soon as they landed on earth, and then proceeded to go and kill Barry's mum. He would have found out Superman and Supergirl's secret identities the same way he found out that Barry was the Flash - by hacking Gideon.

EDIT: Thawne also managed to get to Earth-X on his own, so interdimensional travel is obviously not much a problem for him. It's entire possible he simply fought Superman on a different Earth and that Kara and Clark's pods never made it off Krypton on Earth 1.

There is huge difference between simply phasing through Kara and physically ripping out her organs. In the latter case, RF has to materialise his hand to damage her heart. When has RF or Barry ever hurt someone with Kara's durability?

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The_Hajduk

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In my opinion Barry phasing through Kara in the first crossover is more than enough evidence to suggest Thawne will have no trouble phasing through Supes if he catches him off guard. However Clark can probably keep him on his toes regarding combat speed so I doubt he'd get the chance to do it. Also, the reason why Eobard doesn't just phase Kara's heart out for the operation is because he needs the thing in one piece, and it's not like he's just going to phase it into Overgirl's chest. He needs to surgically remove and implant the heart in Overgirl regardless so he'd still need the red sunlight. However he did imply that after the red sunlight had done its job he was still going to use his speed during the operation.

@the_hajduk said:
@royal_warrior said:

Thawne never said he defeated superman he just said he's too fast for him furthermore if he did defeat Clark it could've just been a kyprtonite job

Furthermore him saying he fought Kara's cousin leaves a big gaping hole in Earth ones canon

Remember that Eobard comes from a completely different future where he and The Flash fought each other for years up until 2024. This simply implies that the Future Flash also made contact with Supergirl's Earth, and during one of their crossover events, Eobard met Superman. However they have never met in the current timeline.

It's also possible that in the original Earth 1 timeline (where Thawne doesn't kill Barry's mum) that both Supergirl and Superman existed. This seems rather likely because Thawne's Gideon, who he would have acquired from the original timeline, almost let it slip that Barry was a founding member of the Justice League back in season 1 (also the Bruce Wayne name drop in Arrow further strengths the idea that there was a complete Justice League in Earth 1s original timeline)

My guess is that, in an attempt to prevent the League from ever being formed, Thawne went back in time and killed both Clark and Kara when they were in their pods as soon as they landed on earth, and then proceeded to go and kill Barry's mum. He would have found out Superman and Supergirl's secret identities the same way he found out that Barry was the Flash - by hacking Gideon.

EDIT: Thawne also managed to get to Earth-X on his own, so interdimensional travel is obviously not much a problem for him. It's entire possible he simply fought Superman on a different Earth and that Kara and Clark's pods never made it off Krypton on Earth 1.

Epic headcanon.

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blackspidey2099

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#58  Edited By blackspidey2099

@gxrevs06 said:
@god_of_batman said:

In my opinion Barry phasing through Kara in the first crossover is more than enough evidence to suggest Thawne will have no trouble phasing through Supes if he catches him off guard. However Clark can probably keep him on his toes regarding combat speed so I doubt he'd get the chance to do it. Also, the reason why Eobard doesn't just phase Kara's heart out for the operation is because he needs the thing in one piece, and it's not like he's just going to phase it into Overgirl's chest. He needs to surgically remove and implant the heart in Overgirl regardless so he'd still need the red sunlight. However he did imply that after the red sunlight had done its job he was still going to use his speed during the operation.

@the_hajduk said:
@royal_warrior said:

Thawne never said he defeated superman he just said he's too fast for him furthermore if he did defeat Clark it could've just been a kyprtonite job

Furthermore him saying he fought Kara's cousin leaves a big gaping hole in Earth ones canon

Remember that Eobard comes from a completely different future where he and The Flash fought each other for years up until 2024. This simply implies that the Future Flash also made contact with Supergirl's Earth, and during one of their crossover events, Eobard met Superman. However they have never met in the current timeline.

It's also possible that in the original Earth 1 timeline (where Thawne doesn't kill Barry's mum) that both Supergirl and Superman existed. This seems rather likely because Thawne's Gideon, who he would have acquired from the original timeline, almost let it slip that Barry was a founding member of the Justice League back in season 1 (also the Bruce Wayne name drop in Arrow further strengths the idea that there was a complete Justice League in Earth 1s original timeline)

My guess is that, in an attempt to prevent the League from ever being formed, Thawne went back in time and killed both Clark and Kara when they were in their pods as soon as they landed on earth, and then proceeded to go and kill Barry's mum. He would have found out Superman and Supergirl's secret identities the same way he found out that Barry was the Flash - by hacking Gideon.

EDIT: Thawne also managed to get to Earth-X on his own, so interdimensional travel is obviously not much a problem for him. It's entire possible he simply fought Superman on a different Earth and that Kara and Clark's pods never made it off Krypton on Earth 1.

There is huge difference between simply phasing through Kara and physically ripping out her organs. In the latter case, RF has to materialise his hand to damage her heart. When has RF or Barry ever hurt someone with Kara's durability?

Well, Barry used phasing to break Savitar's armor, which Cisco said was indestructible. That's probably the best phasing feat though, I guess.

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deactivated-5d6bc0cd36084

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Superman.

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MetalJimmor

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Loading Video...

Thawne rips out Atom's heart through his suit, leaving a large, bloody hole in said suit where his hand was. If he were just phasing past the suit and phasing out the heart there wouldn't be visible damage on the suit. Either his atoms displaced the suit's more durable atoms and damaged the structure or Eobard is physically strong enough to rip through the suit's armor when pulling the heart out. I assume the first.

Loading Video...

Barry uses vibrations to destroy Savitar's armor, which was made of an unknown material that was indestructible to anything but itself.

It's pretty clear that phasing and vibration attacks ignore durability. What we need is a feat from the Kryptonians that suggests they can resist a phasing or vibration attack like those above.

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deactivated-5aad0467ddfcf

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eobard for now. ill wait until the next crossover. maybe we'll get a definitive fight

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RBT

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I'll still go with Superman.

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CryoModeste

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RF

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HitTheAssasin

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By implications, Superman.

By feats, probably Reverse Flash.

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JDogg

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Superman curbs. Only thing Thawne said was that he was faster not that he can beat her cousin in a fight. Overgirl punk the hell out of Thawne and was shown to be the top dog in charge. Superman > Overgirl seeing as Kara rekt Overgirl 1 on 1 while Superman mind controlled was able to double KO her (despite her being last one standing for a second more).

CW speedster are faster but the Kryptonian tier are out of their completely. They are on whole different tier than E1 characters which has been proven in the numerous crossovers.

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JSDoctor

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Still Superman.

Phasing through someone is not the same as offensively phasing and then materialising, and CW speedsters don't have phasing feats to suggest that they can hurt Kryptonians. On the issue of Savitar's armour, a clearly untrue statement that it's indestructible despite few actual durability feats to support this doesn't make that feat impressive. And the Atom is nowhere near Superman's level. His suit was recently damaged by Annoyed Darhk (Nora) using Vixen's gorilla powers.

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RampageTheFirst

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RF stomps.

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ColonelSanders

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@jdogg said:

Superman curbs. Only thing Thawne said was that he was faster not that he can beat her cousin in a fight. Overgirl punk the hell out of Thawne and was shown to be the top dog in charge. Superman > Overgirl seeing as Kara rekt Overgirl 1 on 1 while Superman mind controlled was able to double KO her (despite her being last one standing for a second more).

CW speedster are faster but the Kryptonian tier are out of their completely. They are on whole different tier than E1 characters which has been proven in the numerous crossovers.

Thawne following Overgirl's orders doesn't necessarily require him being inferior to her. His personal goal was to get Earth-X to invade and destroy Earth-1. He needed Overgirl and Black Arrow for that to happen. He was never punked out by Overgirl either. The only instance I can think of is when he's arguing with Black Arrow and she intervenes with a hand to his chest, to which he rolls his eyes and tells everyone to calm down. Obviously he's not going to break into a big fight there.

Kara didn't "rekt" Overgirl. Their fights ended because of Overgirl's weakening heart. At the end of Supergirl 3x08, Barry asked "and how was she as strong as you?", and Kara said nothing to refute that. The Earth-X doppelgangers were meant to be equal to their Earth-1 counterparts.

I don't doubt that the speedsters are faster. Kara, while flying, could keep up with Barry in the Dominator crossover, but that was last year. Season 4 Barry is insanely fast compared to that, going from Central City to China (I think?) and back in mere seconds. Reverse-Flash can match that speed. The Kryptonians are implied to be the top dogs in the CWverse, though. Nobody is beating them in a fight without Kryptonite, a similar physiology, or some mind control BS.

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JDogg

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#70  Edited By JDogg

@colonelsanders: In the Ray show it showed and said OG was the strongest of them all. Thawne got his hand stopped by OG and was put in his place, which shows the clear superior between him and her.

SG whooped OG in their encounters. She was clearly the superior of the two as she won both her fights against OG and came out with minimal damage. If they were equal Kara would've definitely not easily dispatch OG in just civilian clothes at that. E38 Kara is definitely stronger.

I won't go any further tho since we agree Supes wins.

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deactivated-5bd0d99b6c6f7

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If Thawne is blood lusted he takes this easily. Supes gets a phasing hand through the heart, but since they are in character then supes. There was this one quote that is really sticking with me in this battle.

Supergirl: My cousin...he will find you.

Reverse Flash: Your cousin? Fun fact... I fought your cousin... in the future... he is fast... I’m faster.

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ColonelSanders

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@jdogg said:

@colonelsanders: In the Ray show it showed and said OG was the strongest of them all. Thawne got his hand stopped by OG and was put in his place, which shows the clear superior between him and her.

SG whooped OG in their encounters. She was clearly the superior of the two as she won both her fights against OG and came out with minimal damage. If they were equal Kara would've definitely not easily dispatch OG in just civilian clothes at that. E38 Kara is definitely stronger.

I won't go any further tho since we agree Supes wins.

I haven't watched all of The Ray yet so you may have a point there. I wholeheartedly disagree with your definition of "whooped," but since you've pointed out we both agree on Superman as the victor here, I too will refrain from drudging this forward. Good game.

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deactivated-5add3922b3476

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Eobard

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Mutant1230

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Still Clark

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Nomar

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#75 Nomar  Online

@blazenite104 said:
@gxrevs06 said:
@rampagethefirst said:

@cwchandler: @gxrevs06: Doesn't matter, Eobard still phases through and rips out Supermans heart.

Do you have proof that Eobard can damage or rip out a kryptonian heart?

At this point the only answer you'll get is the inverse saying why couldn't he. best to just try other tactics to prove Thawne can't win. they exist beyond the whole phase stuff.

Not going to argue but based on what? Even if you say that their internal organs are insanely durable because their exterior is durable (which is baseless as even people like MCU Luke Cage don't have super durable organs despite tanking hits that would kill humans) why do you think that they can no sell phasing when they have never done so?

I hate bumping old threads but I had to correct this. MCU Luke Cage has durable organs. It was like a pretty big moment in the show when an explosion went off inside him and Claire commented on his internals also being durable.

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RampageTheFirst

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@nomar: CW speedsters ignore durability when they phase.

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#77  Edited By Nomar  Online

@rampagethefirst said:

@nomar: CW speedsters ignore durability when they phase.

I wasn't really even arguing that but I bet if I start listing some DCEU or DC comics heavy hitters that tune of yours will probably change ;)

I just notice that the only time that is used is when it's either against other CW characters or Marvel/Anime/Manga characters. Once DC characters are used all of a sudden durability matters.

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Stalin-Is-Steel

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RF stomps. Sups wasn't that impressive tbh. He can't deal with the speed or the potential for RF to get clones of himself if he's feeling like it.

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RampageTheFirst

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#79  Edited By RampageTheFirst

@nomar: Yes and I won't be arguing for the CW team because DC's heavy hitters can counter Eobards speed and have speed feats of their own that trumps Eobards.

Um, durability matters because you brought it up by bumping a 3 month old thread..and durability is used against every comic/live action universe.

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JDogg

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Supes and is even a bigger rekt after S3 SG.

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#81 Nomar  Online

@nomar: Yes and I won't be arguing for the CW team because DC's heavy hitters can counter Eobards speed and have speed feats of their own that trumps Eobards.

Um, durability matters because you brought it up by bumping a 3 month old thread..and durability is used against every comic/live action universe.

Read my initial response and what it was addressing again please.

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deactivated-5f5eba8f0a2dd

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CW Superman really does not impress me. Getting your ass kicked by Supergirl is not that great. Thawne wins this with no difficulty.

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RampageTheFirst

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@nomar: I have read it and I was just putting it out there that durability isn't a factor when it comes to phasing.

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#84  Edited By Matthew660

Well Eobard sort of hinted he beat Superman by saying they fought and he was faster, but some potential ways reverse flash can win here are:

Phasing

Time traveling(obviously)

Lighting throw, according to Barry. Three lighting bolts have the same energy output as a nuke, and DCEU Superman almost died from a nuke so what says cw Superman can’t die from tens of lighting bolts thrown by multiple time remnants

Crap ton of time remnants

Not to mention he has been erased from existence several times but is somehow still here.

But superman’s Freeze breath would be a huge problem for Eobard if it conencts

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Hypnos0929

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Thawne probably kills him

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JDogg

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Not one thing hinted Thawne won his encounter with Supes. He said he was faster which already tells us he ran like a b lol.

Phasing isnt working. He'd blow his own hand apart if he tried killing him with phasing.

SG stomped OG who was Thawne's superior while Supes was practically dead even with Kara so.... Also how is taking a beating by Kara a low showing? Thawne got onshotted by Kara lmao.

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Mister_Surreal

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Reverseflash phases his hand into his chest. He wins as usual.

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deactivated-5bc6a17e6d482

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Cw is shit

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deactivated-5bc2c7b81b701

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Eobard.

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JOVIOLMA

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No idea about this one.

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willpayton

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Reverse Flash... most likely

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RampageTheFirst

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Eobard still stomps.

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viking1205

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Overgirl caught and started breaking Thawne's hands when he was phasing through Oliver (Earth - X). Supergirl caught and threw Thawne right when he was running in the second episode of Crisis on Earth - X. If Clark can perform these two, I don't see why he can't win.

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jashro44

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Considering Superman track record he probably ends up having to be saved by super girl.

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Considering Superman track record he probably ends up having to be saved by super girl.

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ProfessorRespect

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CW Superman sucks so Thawne wins

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modernww2fare

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#97 modernww2fare  Online

Considering Superman track record he probably ends up having to be saved by super girl.

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El_mago

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Thawne

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Etherious

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Superman

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D00mSlayer1993

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Reverse Flash