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#1 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18581 posts) - - Show Bio

CW Superman

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vs

CW Reverse Flash

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Rules

  • Both are in character but fully determined to win
  • Start 100 feet apart
  • Random encounter

Fight takes place outside Star Labs

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#2 Edited by Mutant1230 (6790 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman. Eobard doesn't have the feats to hurt him even if he tries to phase his heart out.

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#3 Posted by Bats16 (501 posts) - - Show Bio

Thawne. He already said he's fought Supes and that while Superman is fast, he's faster. Supes gets a vibrating hand through the chest.

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#4 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18581 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#5 Posted by TheTopContender (199 posts) - - Show Bio

Scaling Superman off of Supergirl, he should be too much for Eobard.

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#6 Posted by GeorgeWBush (12469 posts) - - Show Bio

Thawne

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#7 Posted by countrylevel (72 posts) - - Show Bio

I cringe Teen Wolf Derrick as Superman but he beats this Flash. But please don't use CW Supes again it's like seeing Elijah Wood as Batman.

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#8 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6734 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, Thawne already hinted he won. And I'm pretty sure the phasing hands thing should be able to kill Superman, since Barry was able to use it to break Savitar's armor which was indestructible.

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#9 Posted by TJD2814 (511 posts) - - Show Bio

All thawne said was that he was faster if anything this implies that he managed to escape capture and a furthering battle then what they had. IMO

Side note: that was probably my favorite part of the whole crossover when Thawne said that.

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#10 Posted by Arcus1 (27817 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Thawne's statement (which was vague at best and, considering Thawne's characterization, is probably questionable) is enough to counter the consistent implications that Kryptonian>speedster in the CW

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#11 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7789 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman. Eobard doesn't have the feats to hurt him even if he tries to phase his heart out.

An inexperienced Barry already phased through Supergirl in a crossover so it's safe to say an experienced speedster like Eobard would have no problem doing that and since CW Supergirl has deemed to be stronger than CW Superman, it's gonna be pretty easy.

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#12 Posted by Royal_Warrior (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

Thawne never said he defeated superman he just said he's too fast for him furthermore if he did defeat Clark it could've just been a kyprtonite job

Furthermore him saying he fought Kara's cousin leaves a big gaping hole in Earth ones canon

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#13 Posted by Royal_Warrior (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: phasing through something and unpahsing your hand whilst inside them are two completely different things

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#14 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7789 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: phasing through something and unpahsing your hand whilst inside them are two completely different things

How are they two different things? Phasing through something is the same as phasing your hand through something, when you phase through something, your whole body including your hand phases through it.

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#15 Posted by Mutant1230 (6790 posts) - - Show Bio

@mutant1230 said:

Superman. Eobard doesn't have the feats to hurt him even if he tries to phase his heart out.

An inexperienced Barry already phased through Supergirl in a crossover so it's safe to say an experienced speedster like Eobard would have no problem doing that and since CW Supergirl has deemed to be stronger than CW Superman, it's gonna be pretty easy.

Doesn't matter, phasing =/= hurting someone with phasing. Your hand needs to actually solidify and do damage which Eobard will have extreme trouble doing to someone as strong as CW Superman.

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#16 Posted by Royal_Warrior (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: the unphasing part, to phase her heart he has to unpahse for a split second to hold and phase her heart, seeing as her durballity inside her body is still a lot more durable than RF his hand would explode as soon as it unphases

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#17 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7789 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst said:
@mutant1230 said:

Superman. Eobard doesn't have the feats to hurt him even if he tries to phase his heart out.

An inexperienced Barry already phased through Supergirl in a crossover so it's safe to say an experienced speedster like Eobard would have no problem doing that and since CW Supergirl has deemed to be stronger than CW Superman, it's gonna be pretty easy.

Doesn't matter, phasing =/= hurting someone with phasing. Your hand needs to actually solidify and do damage which Eobard will have extreme trouble doing to someone as strong as CW Superman.

Actually you wouldn't know if Eobard would have extreme trouble doing that, driving his hand through Supermans chest should do the job here, there's no feats for CW Superman that indicate he is indeed as strong as you make him out to be.

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#18 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7789 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: the unphasing part, to phase her heart he has to unpahse for a split second to hold and phase her heart, seeing as her durballity inside her body is still a lot more durable than RF his hand would explode as soon as it unphases

Based on what? There's nothing that indicates her internal organs are as hard as her skin.

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#19 Posted by Royal_Warrior (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: you being serious? If her insides weren't comparably durable she wouldn't be able to do half the things she could, if her insides were weak then she wouldn't be able to lift/take hits etc etc

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#20 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7789 posts) - - Show Bio

@royal_warrior: I never mentioned anything about durable. Even if it was durable, how does that help CW Supermans case here? Durable doesn't mean it is unphasable lol. There's a million ways this fight could end and it all ends with Superman losing.

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#21 Posted by Mutant1230 (6790 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: Are you for real? Superman has literally dozens of feats from Supergirl Season 2 showing incredibly high end durability. His organs would naturally follow suit just based on the logic of scaling, it would your job to actually prove this otherwise. In which case, I'm willing to hear you out.

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#22 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7789 posts) - - Show Bio

Are you for real? Superman has literally dozens of feats from Supergirl Season 2 showing incredibly high end durability.

None of which could injure Reverse Flash, Eobard has phased through Dwarf Star Alloy (Atoms suit) and ripped his heart out so if he really was as weak as you claim then he should've been severely injured judging by how strong and powerful it is.

His organs would naturally follow suit just based on the logic of scaling.

Unless you have concrete evidence, I'll just disregard that. A lot of things are possible here by logic.

it would your job to actually prove this otherwise. In which case, I'm willing to hear you out.

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#23 Posted by GXrevs06 (4911 posts) - - Show Bio

@royal_warrior: I never mentioned anything about durable. Even if it was durable, how does that help CW Supermans case here? Durable doesn't mean it is unphasable lol. There's a million ways this fight could end and it all ends with Superman losing.

If Kryptonian's weren't as durable inside as they are on the outside, they would die. The forces and impacts Kara and Clark withstand routinely and things such as sudden acceleration/deceleration would turn their internal organs to paste

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#24 Edited by RampageTheFirst (7789 posts) - - Show Bio

@gxrevs06: It is all in theory. It has never been proven.

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#25 Edited by GXrevs06 (4911 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst said:

@gxrevs06: It is all in theory. It has never been proven.

What's a theory? Kryptonian powers have been explained numerous times in canon and several forms of media.

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#26 Posted by CWChandler (133 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: Without durable organs, a Kryptonian wouldn't be able to take concussive damage. It would go through the skin and pulverize their insides. They clearly have internal durability.

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#27 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7789 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Edited by blazenite014 (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@cwchandler: @gxrevs06: Doesn't matter, Eobard still phases through and rips out Supermans heart.

this assumes that a human hand is capable of displacing a kryptonians heart. to do so he needs to grab it and break through basically. either way there are other ways the fight could go. could Thawne run in the air? he'd have a hard time phasing something he can't reach. on the other hand a wild spaz turning around with heat vision could feasibly reach Thawne. spinning in a circle is faster than running so any speed gaps could be overcome with this method.

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#29 Posted by WeAreTheFlash (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

Thawn3 suggeates that he previously beat supes or atleast had a draw.

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#30 Edited by blazenite014 (42 posts) - - Show Bio

Thawn3 suggeates that he previously beat supes or atleast had a draw.

could be lying to throw them off or to show off. unless he explains how he did it, i'd take it as an encounter he survived and may have surprised Supes to some degree. it's possible he has beaten him before. it's just hard to use that to really decide either way. if he had some upper hand kind of moments against Supergirl it would lend credence though.

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#31 Posted by RBT (29220 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes

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#32 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman wins.

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#33 Edited by GXrevs06 (4911 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst said:

@cwchandler: @gxrevs06: Doesn't matter, Eobard still phases through and rips out Supermans heart.

Do you have proof that Eobard can damage or rip out a kryptonian heart?

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#34 Posted by blazenite014 (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@gxrevs06 said:
@rampagethefirst said:

@cwchandler: @gxrevs06: Doesn't matter, Eobard still phases through and rips out Supermans heart.

Do you have proof that Eobard can damage or rip out a kryptonian heart?

At this point the only answer you'll get is the inverse saying why couldn't he. best to just try other tactics to prove Thawne can't win. they exist beyond the whole phase stuff.

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#35 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18581 posts) - - Show Bio
@blazenite104 said:
@gxrevs06 said:
@rampagethefirst said:

@cwchandler: @gxrevs06: Doesn't matter, Eobard still phases through and rips out Supermans heart.

Do you have proof that Eobard can damage or rip out a kryptonian heart?

At this point the only answer you'll get is the inverse saying why couldn't he. best to just try other tactics to prove Thawne can't win. they exist beyond the whole phase stuff.

Not going to argue but based on what? Even if you say that their internal organs are insanely durable because their exterior is durable (which is baseless as even people like MCU Luke Cage don't have super durable organs despite tanking hits that would kill humans) why do you think that they can no sell phasing when they have never done so?

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#36 Posted by blazenite014 (42 posts) - - Show Bio

Not going to argue but based on what? Even if you say that their internal organs are insanely durable(which is baseless as even people like MCU Luke Cage don't have super durable organs despite tanking hits that would kill humans) why do you think that they can no sell phasing when they have never done so?

well for a start cage is still fundamentally human and his organs should be mush unless his skin is also a shock absorber.

now as for why a kryptonian is any different. the idea is that solar radiation feeds all their cells. not just skin but organs as well. we have frost breath and heat vision. obviously the eyes and lungs are organs affected by solar power so why would the heart or liver or anything like that not be. for no selling phasing. it's never been shown to affect them either. if indeed every cell of their bodies is iradiated and solar radiation improves the performance of every part of them it would make sense for organs to be stronger as well.

It's possible phasing could work. I won't say it's not possible but, I still think it's highly unlikely.

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#37 Posted by deactivated-5a46927fc5463 (2849 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman wins. Reverse Flash can't phase Kryptonians. If he could, he wouldn't have needed red sunlight to take Supergirl's heart out, he could have just phased it out.

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#38 Posted by blazenite014 (42 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman wins. Reverse Flash can't phase Kryptonians. If he could, he wouldn't have needed red sunlight to take Supergirl's heart out, he could have just phased it out.

that's actually a really good point. although one could argue it was for the sake of precision. then again the speeds he moves it probably would matter if he was careful.

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#39 Edited by GXrevs06 (4911 posts) - - Show Bio

@watcher5000 said:

Not going to argue but based on what? Even if you say that their internal organs are insanely durable because their exterior is durable (which is baseless as even people like MCU Luke Cage don't have super durable organs despite tanking hits that would kill humans) why do you think that they can no sell phasing when they have never done so?

Cage's powers work differently to Kara's and he's a human, so that is not a good comparison

@blazenite104 said:

At this point the only answer you'll get is the inverse saying why couldn't he. best to just try other tactics to prove Thawne can't win. they exist beyond the whole phase stuff.

You can't because that would be a fallacy. The burden of proof is on you

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#40 Posted by GuedesEvery (611 posts) - - Show Bio

"Wells this is a complication" - Zoom

I guess Superman Win, if Thawne dont vibrate hand in Superman

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#41 Posted by Bats16 (501 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman wins. Reverse Flash can't phase Kryptonians. If he could, he wouldn't have needed red sunlight to take Supergirl's heart out, he could have just phased it out.

Yea that's a crock of BS. He would've just phased through her after exposing her to the red sunlight if that was the case. He didn't. Rather he planned on doing a surgical procedure. It's clear he didn't phase because it had a much greater risk at damaging her heart than a surgical procedure would. Not to mention Barry has already phased through Kara once before.

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#42 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5622 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm guessing this was made after Eobard said he fought Superman before, I'm guessing they stalemated.

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#43 Posted by Mutant1230 (6790 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: None of which could injure Reverse Flash, Eobard has phased through Dwarf Star Alloy (Atoms suit) and ripped his heart out so if he really was as weak as you claim then he should've been severely injured judging by how strong and powerful it is.

The Atom is not even close to CW Superman in terms of durability, there's also the fact Ray has no above average durability under his suit. Ergo all Thawne had to do was phase through the metal and solidify inside his heart, which has no special durability and use his hand to casually pull it out. Superman isn't limited by this, he doesn't have a special suit that only makes his skin durable. Every part of him is durable, including his heart, so unlike Ray pulling it out will not be so easy.

It seems abundantly clear you don't get how phasing works, it's more than just going through someone, it's deeply connected to the person phasing and how much damage they can do solidifying inside of their victim.

Unless you have concrete evidence, I'll just disregard that. A lot of things are possible here by logic.

I gave you proof with Kal-El's durability feats. But, if you're going to be like that I can easily flip this logic around and explain that Eobard has never phased and hurt someone on CW Superman's level, there's unless you have concrete evidence, I'll just disregard that too.

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#44 Posted by deactivated-5a235d4b20340 (306 posts) - - Show Bio

Eobard eventually.

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#45 Posted by RockyWocky (149 posts) - - Show Bio

He has been able to destroy Atom's Dwarf Star Aloy, so I think RF can do this

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#46 Posted by WeAreTheFlash (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

@blazenite104: thawne has not lied once through out his time in the arrowverse.

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#47 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18581 posts) - - Show Bio
@gxrevs06 said:
@watcher5000 said:

Not going to argue but based on what? Even if you say that their internal organs are insanely durable because their exterior is durable (which is baseless as even people like MCU Luke Cage don't have super durable organs despite tanking hits that would kill humans) why do you think that they can no sell phasing when they have never done so?

Cage's powers work differently to Kara's and he's a human, so that is not a good comparison

I'm aware, but the reason given for Clark being able to resist phasing was because otherwise he wouldn't survive attacks that would kill regular humans which is why the example I gave is valid.After that your argument for it not working is just based on his being a kryptonian, which IMO isn't strong enough evidence to say Eobard can't win through phasing.Again,not saying he wins or loses though.

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#48 Edited by RampageTheFirst (7789 posts) - - Show Bio
@mutant1230 said:

The Atom is not even close to CW Superman in terms of durability, there's also the fact Ray has no above average durability under his suit. Ergo all Thawne had to do was phase through the metal and solidify inside his heart, which has no special durability and use his hand to casually pull it out. Superman isn't limited by this, he doesn't have a special suit that only makes his skin durable. Every part of him is durable, including his heart, so unlike Ray pulling it out will not be so easy.

Actually Ray is somewhat close to CW Superman, he has tanked heaps of hits from Leviathan consistently and got back up, indicating he is indeed somewhat close to Superman. Phasing through the metal and solidifying inside his heart still means he has to unphase while he is inside the suit lol, you cannot unphase and miss a whole chunk of his suit unless you can prove me wrong and if you see the scene again and try to concentrate on it, you will see the chunk of the suit ripped out indicates that he phased through his suit and solidified inside his suit and ripped his heart out. Superman might be durable but who is to say this will be the only thing Eobard will do? There's a million possible outcomes of this battle, most of which ending with Superman losing.

It seems abundantly clear you don't get how phasing works, it's more than just going through someone, it's deeply connected to the person phasing and how much damage they can do solidifying inside of their victim

I do know how it works but it seems like you're overestimating this simple act. Needless to say, I have provided sufficient evidence to prove how it is possible for Eobard to phase through Superman.

I gave you proof with Kal-El's durability feats. But, if you're going to be like that I can easily flip this logic around and explain that Eobard has never phased and hurt someone on CW Superman's level, there's unless you have concrete evidence, I'll just disregard that too.

These are all just theories, but we can be certain of one thing and that is the fact that Eobard has already fought Superman and vaguely hinted that he has also beaten him, you on the other hand have no authentic evidence to back your claim up, other than theories which could easily be falsified.

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#49 Edited by FirestormFate1919 (6217 posts) - - Show Bio

I did feel like Eobard implied he won his fight with Clark, but that's not enough to judge this fight off of. Either way, I definitely think Eobard wins this.

He's much, much faster than Clark. Kara did tag him at one point during the crossover, but he wasn't really focused on her and likely wasn't moving full speed. She essentially caught him off guard, and he quickly recovered. However, near the end of the Crossover, during Barry and Eobard's final fight, Supergirl was completely frozen as they dashed around and fought throughout the battle field. They were moving back and forth large distances across the city at imperceptible speed even with the view being in motion slow enough that everyone else was frozen. Even the Ray, who matched Barry in speed earlier and reacted casually to lightning, is completely frozen. This scene gives me the impression that Eobard is still massively faster than Kryptonians when concentrated.

From there, it's Eobard's fight. Clark literally shouldn't be able to touch him. Eobard can utilize Phasing, Time Remnants, Time Travel, Speedforce BFR, or even just hit Clark with enough Sonic Punches that he drops. On the topic of Phasing, the surgery scene definitely doesn't prove he couldn't phase her heart out, it was a surgical procedure. Obviously he isn't gonna do something that potentially destructive to her heart, because he needs to very carefully preserve it. It's simply easier to ensure safe transfer of the heart with surgical tools instead of a vibrating hand. His goal here would not be preservation of the heart, just lethality, they're completely different contexts.

Eobard is too fast and too hax for Clark to take down.

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#50 Posted by Mutant1230 (6790 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst:

Actually Ray is somewhat close to CW Superman, he has tanked heaps of hits from Leviathan consistently and got back up, indicating he is indeed somewhat close to Superman.

Leviathan is featless, this is absolutely in no way, shape or form proof that the Atom has equal durability to Superman. That claim in itself is utterly ridiculous.

Phasing through the metal and solidifying inside his heart still means he has to unphase while he is inside the suit lol, you cannot unphase and miss a whole chunk of his suit unless you can prove me wrong and if you see the scene again and try to concentrate on it, you will see the chunk of the suit ripped out indicates that he phased through his suit and solidified inside his suit and ripped his heart out.

Now you're just making up the rules as you go. I'm not arguing that he phased through the suit, of course he did, his hand is what solidified inside of Ray's heart and that's what ultimately let him rip his heart out and kill him. The dent in Ray's suit is just an aesthetic to illustrate exactly what Eobard did, the same way Supergirl has had her shirt on fire multiple times in her show but never actually had it burn. The very nature of phasing doesn't have anything to do with limitless destructive capabilities like you're stating here, it's total speculation, all of it!

These are all just theories, but we can be certain of one thing and that is the fact that Eobard has already fought Superman and vaguely hinted that he has also beaten him, you on the other hand have no authentic evidence to back your claim up, other than theories which could easily be falsified.

How am I supposed to disprove any of this when your points have no evidence to begin with? You've provided a biased and completely falsified account on how the Reverse-Flash phased The Atom and have shown completely baseless ideas of how phasing has been proven to work in the series, you're having pronoun trouble. YOU'RE the one with no evidence or scans to back up the assumption Eobard can one shot here

Superman still wins.