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#51 Posted by Arcus1 (24172 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:

@nickzambuto:

...she's surrounded by small tanks, needing to dodge their fire from all sides while targeting a specific weak spot on the tank. How is that not impressive?

Diggle switched once, because he got his gun knocked away. He got disarmed, beat up the ninja, and pulled out his handgun. It's not as impressive as you're trying to make it sound

She dodges fire in the first panel, the tanks aren't firing continuously. When she takes the shot, she's still. It's definitely a high-stress environment but no more high-stress than Diggle and two other fighters trying to take on the League of Assassins singlehandedly, and the shotS (plural) that Diggle made during that fight, were harder than the shot (singular) Black Widow made.

Diggle switched shots repeatedly and rapidly. What? Do you think he was firing at the same body the entire fight? There were ninjas storming constantly and he would shoot one, go to the next, then the next, etc.

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Even if those gifs of Black Widow were equal accuracy (they're not, Diggle is hitting moving targets from over twice the distance) Diggle is still a better gun when it comes to hectic combat. Widow just pops off a couple shots, runs away, does something else, that's it. Diggle is actually using firearms continuously throughout the duration of battles and switches rapidly from long to close range.

Well yeah she looks still, it's a comic panel...

In the panel immediately before she's being shot at, and in the panel immediately after we see she was surrounded by tanks, all of which were firing. You think they stopped or something?

I thought you meant he was switching between which guns he was using

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#52 Posted by nickzambuto (29289 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I don't think it's that simple. Artists know how to portray characters with motion, it's obvious that Natasha is on the move in both the first and final panel, but in the middle panel, she's just standing still. You can argue she only stood still for a moment to make the shot and then was immediately moving again, which would mean she only had a fraction of a second to aim, but she was still not in motion at the time. Really when you boil it down, all she did was make a precision shot from 20 feet away, while only needing little time to aim. Diggle made MULTIPLE precision shots on armored League ninja from twice the distance, it's really that simple.

Another factor is that unlike Black Widow or anybody else in the MCU, Diggle has displayed legitimate skill in gun kata and both using and countering firearms and weapons in close quarters encounters. Again, Black Widow just does not use her guns in fights, meaning she just isn't skilled enough. But firearms are pretty much the central aspect of Diggle's fighting style, as you can see in the big Nanda Parbat fight where everybody showed off their specialties. By season 4 he's a machine in combat, easily on the level of Slade IMO.

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#53 Posted by Arcus1 (24172 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I don't think it's that simple. Artists know how to portray characters with motion, it's obvious that Natasha is on the move in both the first and final panel, but in the middle panel, she's just standing still. You can argue she only stood still for a moment to make the shot and then was immediately moving again, which would mean she only had a fraction of a second to aim, but she was still not in motion at the time. Really when you boil it down, all she did was make a precision shot from 20 feet away, while only needing little time to aim. Diggle made MULTIPLE precision shots on armored League ninja from twice the distance, it's really that simple.

Another factor is that unlike Black Widow or anybody else in the MCU, Diggle has displayed legitimate skill in gun kata and both using and countering firearms and weapons in close quarters encounters. Again, Black Widow just does not use her guns in fights, meaning she just isn't skilled enough. But firearms are pretty much the central aspect of Diggle's fighting style, as you can see in the big Nanda Parbat fight where everybody showed off their specialties. By season 4 he's a machine in combat, easily on the level of Slade IMO.

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...so they all just stopped firing for her to shoot? Is that what you're saying. Because that's the only reason a showing like that would be as unimpressive as you're claiming

Using guns in fights is not that incredibly unique

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And you're going to respond by pointing out this is close range. Yeah, it is. But also keep in mind, Ultron bots are more dangerous than League ninjas, and Widow had to shoot them in specific weak spots, because they're bulletproof in all other areas (Hawkeye was almost always shown targeting the eyes)

Why is Diggle's improvement by Season 4 when we're talking about how Malcolm did against S1 Diggle?

And besides, it's not like guns are the only weapon Widow has here

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#54 Posted by MiracleComeBack (1818 posts) - - Show Bio

R1 merlyn

R2 malcom

R3 possibly natasha, but can still lose

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#55 Posted by Arcus1 (24172 posts) - - Show Bio

R1 merlyn

R2 malcom

R3 possibly natasha, but can still lose

Any reasons?

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#56 Posted by LlehDevil (7252 posts) - - Show Bio

@llehdevil said:

Malcom

's head get's filled with lead.

Just like it did when Diggle and Ollie opened fire on him simultaneously from 10 feet away and he closed the distance and fought them both by himself.

...wait...

Arrows are clearly inferior to bullets.

And Season 1 Diggle didn't have any good marksmen feats unless you'd like to post some feats and correct me..

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#57 Posted by Arcus1 (24172 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#58 Posted by RBT (15157 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm takes this.

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#59 Posted by deactivated-57b91cdb08bdf (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm takes this. Arrow street levelers are generally better than MCU street levelers.

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#60 Edited by Arcus1 (24172 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

Malcolm takes this.

All rounds? Any reasons?

Malcolm takes this. Arrow street levelers are generally better than MCU street levelers.

All rounds?

That's something of an overgeneralization, Arrowverse characters aren't automatically better than MCU

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#61 Posted by Arcus1 (24172 posts) - - Show Bio

Had this concept scene for a brief fight between Widow and Cap in Civl War shown to me. Idk if it counts as anything worthwhile, since they never even started filming it apparently, but doesn't seem outside Widow's capabilities

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#62 Posted by the_wspanialy (1880 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Malcolm decisevely. He's simply superior, both physicaly and skillwise.

Round 2: Malcolm, more often then not. Using Widow's bite right off the bat is Nat's only way to win this. and Malcolm has a decent chance to simply dodge it.

Round 3: Again Malcolm, more often than not.

Unless I miss something, what's stopping Malcolm from simply shooting her? As far as I remember she lacks feats to be considered an arrow timer.

Oliver and Diggle were unable to tag him. Add lack of feats on Nat's side (she shot Bucky thanks to him focusing attention on something else and not moving) and I seriously doubt she can shoot him from a distance. Trying to use a gun in cqc is her best option.

Assuming Nat is able to hit him with the bite in the first place, Malcom's leather suit would grant him at least some level of protection.

Unless she's able to surprise him (as she did against Bucky), I doubt the garrote will come into play. Even if Malcolm should be more than able to shrugg her off thanks to superior strenght.

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#63 Posted by mrmonster (4984 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Malcolm

Round 2: Black Widow

Round 3: Malcolm

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#64 Posted by AngelJax (3405 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow all rounds except maybe 2

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#65 Posted by jashro44 (43913 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm.

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#66 Posted by foxerdes (6718 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm.

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#67 Posted by RBT (15157 posts) - - Show Bio

Merlyn is above Nat's pay grade.

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#68 Posted by TheSuperor (5200 posts) - - Show Bio

Merlyn

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#69 Posted by lubub55 (8606 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm stomps.

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#70 Posted by DanielDaRipper (1371 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm

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#71 Posted by The_Magister (1622 posts) - - Show Bio

Some of the logic in this thread is ridiculous. Bucky has never dodged an arrow, so therefore he is incapable of it?

What? Lmao

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#72 Posted by omriamar (2007 posts) - - Show Bio

CW wank at his best while i do agree Malcolm wins all rounds it will still be a good fight close one too, to say he stomps is insane if you ask me

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#73 Posted by RBT (15157 posts) - - Show Bio

Some of the logic in this thread is ridiculous. Bucky has never dodged an arrow, so therefore he is incapable of it?

What? Lmao

I mean, yeah.. That's kind of how feats work.

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#74 Posted by The_Magister (1622 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@the_magister said:

Some of the logic in this thread is ridiculous. Bucky has never dodged an arrow, so therefore he is incapable of it?

What? Lmao

I mean, yeah.. That's kind of how feats work.

If I have never specifically knocked out a toddler with a left cross, does that mean I am incapable of it?

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#75 Posted by RBT (15157 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@the_magister said:

Some of the logic in this thread is ridiculous. Bucky has never dodged an arrow, so therefore he is incapable of it?

What? Lmao

I mean, yeah.. That's kind of how feats work.

If I have never specifically knocked out a toddler with a left cross, does that mean I am incapable of it?

Assuming you have knocked someone out stronger than a toddler before, no. Otherwise, yeah.

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#76 Posted by The_Magister (1622 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@the_magister said:
@rbt said:
@the_magister said:

Some of the logic in this thread is ridiculous. Bucky has never dodged an arrow, so therefore he is incapable of it?

What? Lmao

I mean, yeah.. That's kind of how feats work.

If I have never specifically knocked out a toddler with a left cross, does that mean I am incapable of it?

Assuming you have knocked someone out stronger than a toddler before, no. Otherwise, yeah.

Exactly, so scaling applies.

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A guy who did this and managed to land blows on a casual arrow timer (T'Challa) is more than capable of dodging arrows. The bullets are landing all around him, and it's clearly meant to indicate that he is flipping in between the bullets, not just away from them. If you honestly think that Bucky would be written to get hit by any and all arrows that are fired at him, I don't know what to say.

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#77 Posted by RBT (15157 posts) - - Show Bio
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#78 Posted by DSTREET45 (3651 posts) - - Show Bio

Malcolm all rounds.

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#79 Posted by the_fallen_lord (2199 posts) - - Show Bio

Nat all rounds.