CW Green Arrow & DCEU Batman vs MCU Women of S.H.I.E.L.D.

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#1 Posted by deactivated-5a7ab6ae2106d (553 posts) - - Show Bio
Oliver Queen & Bruce Wayne
Oliver Queen & Bruce Wayne

Vs.

Melinda May, Bobbi Morse, Daisy Johnson & Natasha Romanoff
Melinda May, Bobbi Morse, Daisy Johnson & Natasha Romanoff
  • Random encounter. No knowledge.
  • Standard gears.
  • No powers for Daisy.
  • Win by any means necessary.
  • Teams start 50 ft apart behind moderate cover.

Rounds:

  1. Everyone's in character.
  2. Morals off for everyone.

Location:

No Caption Provided

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#2 Posted by The_Magister (14712 posts) - - Show Bio

Gonna say the ladies take both rounds. They are comparably quick on the draw, have the superior ranged weaponry, and the electric functionalities possessed by Natasha & Bobbi will wreak havoc if things get up close & personal.

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#3 Posted by Durial (6 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll go with the agents, Bobbi and May are just as, if not more, skilled as either Bruce or Oliver, and Bobbi has the strength to compete with either. Add in Daisy, an elite fighter who rivals current May, and who fights superhuman Kree with moderate ease, and Black Widow, who along with Bobbi, possess devastating electric ranged weapons, I don't see how Bruce/Oliver win this.

Along with standard gear, May/Daisy/Bobbi would have ICERs, which have a history of one shotting peak humans.

Oliver and Bruce with their gear make this an interesting fight, but I think the agents take it after a long drawn out fight, especially if it goes to CQC.

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#4 Posted by AngelJax (11857 posts) - - Show Bio

The girls, better weapons, more skilled, are better tactically etc.

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#5 Posted by deactivated-5ad4cb41c7fb8 (3527 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax said:

The girls, better weapons, more skilled, are better tactically etc.

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#6 Posted by RBT (29442 posts) - - Show Bio

Gear is too much. R2 is just a mismatch. Both Oliver and Bruce has explosives.

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#7 Edited by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce and Ollie obliterate

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#8 Posted by ANTHP2000 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol.

Only one of the ladies either Bruce or Ollie could take 1 on 1 is Daisy.

This is a mismatch.

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#9 Posted by the_wspanialy (4205 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm inclined to give Round 1 to the ladies. May and Bobbi are already approaching Oliver's skill level and would no doubt take him down two-on-one.

Batman's exact level of skill is a mystery (and will remain a mystery until The Batman premiere) but his physicals are very impressive and he has the best armor here. I'm pretty confident he would take Widow one-on-one by simply overpowering her. I'm not sure how he would fare agianst Daisy. They beat him however two-on-one.

Round 2 could go either way. While the ladies have guns (and are quite profficient with them), Oliver and Bruce are very fast and have bulletproof armors. Bruce especially is well optimised to draw their fire. Meanwhile Oliver vast array of trick arrows can be very problematic for the ladies. Even if their able to dodge them, his explosive arrows are powerful enough to dispatch entire group of fodder with a single arrow. And that's without mentioning his other arrows (gas, magnetic et. cet.) Add to that Bruce's own equipment (explosives strong enough to disintagrate Parademons, grapple gun, jam gun device et.cet) and I'm inclined to give team DC a slight edge in Round 2.

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#10 Posted by RBT (29442 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_wspanialy:

no doubt take him down two-on-one.

Even with standard gear in this setting? Oliver starts 50 ft apart with number disadvantage on his side. His first move would be to take a couple down with arrows. Either with a normal arrow, or likely with a rope arrow. Basically, how Earth X Ollie took down Heatwave.

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#11 Posted by deactivated-5bb6a6f86dc65 (4972 posts) - - Show Bio

Women first round, Ollie and Bruce second one.

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#12 Posted by deactivated-5a7ab6ae2106d (553 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol.

Only one of the ladies either Bruce or Ollie could take 1 on 1 is Daisy.

This is a mismatch.

You sure? Oliver and Bruce have much better gear.

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#14 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

Locations and Gear favours Ollie and Bat, but girls could win due to sheer numbers alone. Team work is key here.

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#15 Posted by Subline (9030 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman & GA no contest.

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#16 Posted by The_Magister (14712 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by Subline (9030 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah you too, from Conviction so sadly no Night Vision goggles and advanced suit.

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#18 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12272 posts) - - Show Bio

MCU ladies should win handily. I’d back most, if not all, against Bruce in a one-on-one situation. He loses to any two of them and no matter how good Ollie is, he’s not beating all four.

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#19 Edited by js_the_beast (936 posts) - - Show Bio

MCU team

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#20 Posted by sportjames23 (1131 posts) - - Show Bio

Bats and Arrow solo.

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#21 Posted by Subline (9030 posts) - - Show Bio

You think the women because they have pistols and can fight.

Bruce trained for 10 years, and Oliver for 5. Batman can formulate a plan to defeat Superman who's only weakness is Kryptonite. He could easily beat them as they are just people. Bruce & Oliver stomp in all ways possible for both rounds.

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#22 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5733 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. Team 1 could win slightly.
  2. Team 1 kill them easily.
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#23 Posted by Subline (9030 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

The Girls.

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#25 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12272 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:

You think the women because they have pistols and can fight.

Bruce trained for 10 years, and Oliver for 5. Batman can formulate a plan to defeat Superman who's only weakness is Kryptonite. He could easily beat them as they are just people. Bruce & Oliver stomp in all ways possible for both rounds.

That's some backwards ducks logic... If you have one weakness that's exploitable, no ducks I'm going to exploit that one weakness. You're basically saying that because he beat a holding back, untrained... human (due to the kryptonite) he's going to beat four highly trained, willing to kill women.

I'm fine with thinking Bats wins on the girls (even though I'd back any of them to beat him 1v1) but the way you're explaining it is just off on so many levels.

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#26 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

MCU ladies should win handily. I’d back most, if not all, against Bruce in a one-on-one situation. He loses to any two of them and no matter how good Ollie is, he’s not beating all four.

This ^^^

AOS agents have already taken on characters far stronger than Bruce and more skilled as well

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#27 Posted by Paytience (5185 posts) - - Show Bio
Loading Video...

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#28 Edited by Subline (9030 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration

Please explain how they would beat him 1v1 when he is a much better fighter.

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#29 Posted by rostero10 (50 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe batman and Oliver queen and take this easily or after a long tough fight if they don't go easy on them just because their women and if they don't go easy on them and go as hard as they can then I believe they can come out on top.

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#30 Posted by Subline (9030 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe batman and Oliver queen and take this easily or after a long tough fight if they don't go easy on them just because their women and if they don't go easy on them and go as hard as they can then I believe they can come out on top.

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#31 Posted by rostero10 (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: and why do you say this? You think one of them could win in a one on one fight with batman? Are you just saying this because you think batman will go easy on them because their women?

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#32 Posted by jayc1324 (26432 posts) - - Show Bio

Team one would win due to their gear. Oliver's trick arrows will be a huge help, as will Batarangs, the grapple gun, and Batman's tech that disables guns. In hand to hand the women would win but I think their gear is too much.

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#33 Edited by rostero10 (50 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by IndomitableRegal (16875 posts) - - Show Bio

The MCU team. Ollie can take anyone here 1-on-1, but neither Bobbi nor May are far behind, and the pair of them can beat him. Same can be said for Daisy and Widow against Bruce. Morals off round is much closer, and I can see Oliver and Bruce taking some wins, though I'd probably still side with the women for a slight majority.

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#35 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12272 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:

@supremegeneration

Please explain how they would beat him 1v1 when he is a much better fighter.

@supremegeneration: and why do you say this? You think one of them could win in a one on one fight with batman? Are you just saying this because you think batman will go easy on them because their women?

I'm saying they win via better feats. All Batman's done is fight fodder, never anyone remotely as skilled as he is. Do I know that he's incredibly skilled in his own right? Sure. But does he have feats that compare to fighting superhuman Kree soldiers (3/4 of the group) through sheer skill? Managing to tag a telepath that can read your every move by acting on sheer instinct?

"But but but but he beat some guys in a warehouse" -- The agents could replicate that with his gear -- aka take out all the guns and a bulletproof suit. It's overhyped as all hell, most street levellers could replicate it under those circumstances.

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#36 Edited by Subline (9030 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:

@supremegeneration

Please explain how they would beat him 1v1 when he is a much better fighter.

@rostero10 said:

@supremegeneration: and why do you say this? You think one of them could win in a one on one fight with batman? Are you just saying this because you think batman will go easy on them because their women?

I'm saying they win via better feats. All Batman's done is fight fodder, never anyone remotely as skilled as he is. Do I know that he's incredibly skilled in his own right? Sure. But does he have feats that compare to fighting superhuman Kree soldiers (3/4 of the group) through sheer skill? Managing to tag a telepath that can read your every move by acting on sheer instinct?

"But but but but he beat some guys in a warehouse" -- The agents could replicate that with his gear -- aka take out all the guns and a bulletproof suit. It's overhyped as all hell, most street levellers could replicate it under those circumstances.

MOST STREET LEVELLERS COULD REPLICATE IT, HAVE YOU EVEN SEEN IT?

Besides, Oliver could create a freeze trick arrow and Batman would have some sort of weapon jammer leaving there guns useless and in a fight he is clearly a better fighter.

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#37 Edited by Paytience (5185 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration said:

@subline said:

@supremegeneration

Please explain how they would beat him 1v1 when he is a much better fighter.

@rostero10 said:

@supremegeneration: and why do you say this? You think one of them could win in a one on one fight with batman? Are you just saying this because you think batman will go easy on them because their women?

I'm saying they win via better feats. All Batman's done is fight fodder, never anyone remotely as skilled as he is. Do I know that he's incredibly skilled in his own right? Sure. But does he have feats that compare to fighting superhuman Kree soldiers (3/4 of the group) through sheer skill? Managing to tag a telepath that can read your every move by acting on sheer instinct?

"But but but but he beat some guys in a warehouse" -- The agents could replicate that with his gear -- aka take out all the guns and a bulletproof suit. It's overhyped as all hell, most street levellers could replicate it under those circumstances.

There were only like 11 people in that warehouse to start? Bobbi and Daisy have already cleared similar using just pistols.

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#38 Posted by rostero10 (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: your saying that if one of those agents given the same tools as batman had in BVS in the warehouse scene, that one of them could take out all those 24 guys(and their not going easy on the agent)

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#39 Posted by Paytience (5185 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: your saying that if one of those agents given the same tools as batman had in BVS in the warehouse scene, that one of them could take out all those 24 guys(and their not going easy on the agent)

I'm saying that one of them could it with an Icer.

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#40 Posted by rostero10 (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: I was directing that to supremegeneration, not you.

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#41 Posted by Paytience (5185 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: I was directing that to supremegeneration, not you.

That's fine. One of the agents could do it with an ICER. Bobbie took down 7 in the amount of time it took Bats to disarm the first group with tech. Do you have a response, or are you gonna continue rather ignorantly wanking Bats and Ollie?

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#42 Posted by The_Magister (14712 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: I'd argue that any of the agents could clear the warehouse scene. Bobbi, May, Ward, or Daisy could do it with ICERs fairly easily.

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#43 Posted by rostero10 (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: I'm not wanking them. Stop getting disrespectful over this forum and you said she used an ICER. That's why. I'm saying if she just used hand to hand combat like batman did and occasionally some gadgets like batarangs here and there but not any firearm or anything like that. If she had the same exact tools as batman had against those group of mercenaries and no ICER or anything and they weren't going easy on here and going as hard as they possibly can do you really think she could take them all down?

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#44 Posted by TheSpartanB345T (4622 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax said:

The girls, better weapons, more skilled, are better tactically etc.

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#45 Edited by Paytience (5185 posts) - - Show Bio

@rostero10 said:

@paytience: I'm not wanking them. Stop getting disrespectful over this forum and you said she used an ICER. That's why. I'm saying if she just used hand to hand combat like batman did and occasionally some gadgets like batarangs here and there but not any firearm or anything like that. If she had the same exact tools as batman had against those group of mercenaries and no ICER or anything and they weren't going easy on here and going as hard as they possibly can do you really think she could take them all down?

Bobbi and Daisy did it with .45 caliber pistols. ICER's have 3x the stopping power of a .45 and standard gear is noted, so every one of the girls are armed with at least an icer. Even Melinda "if I need a gun I'll take one" May has carried a firearm regularly since season 3. I'm not being disrespectful...you're basically stating that Batman is unequivocally a better fighter, which is unequivocally wrong.

Bat's exact same gear includes a bullet proof suit...yeah I'm saying she would take them down. In fact, any one of the girls stand a good chance of walking in there WITHOUT a gun, taking one of the firearms from the mercs, and killing them with that...you give them head to toe body armor like bats is wearing? They don't even try.

Now, take away bats suit and gear? He would die. He nearly died WITH it.

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#46 Edited by deactivated-5a7ab6ae2106d (553 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: To be fair, Bats was exhausted from his fight with Superman and had limited time to save Martha, so he went in like a battering ram instead of taking a more careful approach, because otherwise who in their right minds would engage 20+ armed and highly trained mercs in cqc at the same time? And he took down most of them in h2h with minimal use of gear. I doubt any of the agents could clear the warehouse scene under similar circumstances w/ the same kind of gear Batman used, which were basically his Batarangs and grappling gun.

As for skill, I think Bats gets a bit too much lowballed on this site just because he doesn't have feats against established opponents, but people tend to forget that fodder feats are the ones which make a fighter established in the first place. Tbh, I don't see any of the agents pulling this off (or at least, they don't have comparable feats):

No Caption Provided

In the above GIF, Batman dodges / blocks / parries extremely well-coordinated simultaneous attacks from four highly-trained mercs armed with combat knives. The key word here is "simultaneous". It's one thing to dispatch countless fodder coming at you one after the other, but it's a whole another thing to fend off attacks from multiple opponents (4 in this case) attacking you at the same time, especially when they are highly skilled (for fodder) and equipped with pointy / edged weapons. You'd be hard pressed to find a similar feat from any live-action comic book character, let alone S.H.I.E.L.D. agents.

Don't get me wrong, I have high regards for top-tier shield agents but saying that they can beat Batman just because he never fought an established fighter or because he got tagged a few times in the warehouse, the context behind which I already explained, is nothing else but lowballing. Not to mention, DCEU Batman has already fought and beat (off-screen) the members of suicide squad, so he does have feats against named opponents, for that matter.

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#47 Edited by Paytience (5185 posts) - - Show Bio

@infiniteternal said:

@paytience: To be fair, Bats was exhausted from his fight with Superman and had limited time to save Martha, so he went in like a battering ram instead of taking a more careful approach, because otherwise who in their right minds would engage 20+ armed and highly trained mercs in cqc at the same time? And he took down most of them in h2h with minimal use of gear. I doubt any of the agents could clear the warehouse scene under similar circumstances w/ the same kind of gear Batman used, which were basically his Batarangs and grappling gun.

As for skill, I think Bats gets a bit too much lowballed on this site just because he doesn't have feats against established opponents, but people tend to forget that fodder feats are the ones which make a fighter established in the first place. Tbh, I don't see any of the agents pulling this off (or at least, they don't have comparable feats):

No Caption Provided

In the above GIF, Batman dodges / blocks / parries extremely well-coordinated simultaneous attacks from four highly-trained mercs armed with combat knives. The key word here is "simultaneous". It's one thing to dispatch countless fodder coming at you one after the other, but it's a whole another thing to react to multiple opponents (4 in this case) attacking you at the same time, especially when they are highly skilled (for fodder) and equipped with pointy / edged weapons. You'd be hard pressed to find a similar feat from any live-action comic book character, let alone S.H.I.E.L.D. agents.

Don't get me wrong, I have high regards for top-tier shield agents but saying that they can beat Batman just because he never fought an established fighter or because he got tagged a few times in the warehouse, the context behind which I already explained, is nothing else but lowballing. Not to mention, DCEU Batman has already fought and beat (off-screen) the members of suicide squad, so he does have feats against named opponents, for that matter.

TBF...here's the whole scene:

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Nobody is low balling here; those of us who are looking at that scene honestly can CLEARLY see that batman engaged around 11 people by himself. 6 of which he engaged without gear (I might be short by one, depending on the entry of one of the last two guys he was fighting). He starts with the first 3 at 2:18. The next four...one gets murked by a crate from his grapple gun which then breaks up their attack. He then gets shot, and is saved by his armor.

The fact that he let himself get surrounded is a weakness, not a strength, considering when he flung that crate, he gained the initiative...and it was brought on in a large part, by his inability to break them up to prevent them from attacking like that. Also, he was outright saved by his armor against those guys. He took two rounds clean to the back of his head, and was brought down and stabbed right after that.

As for not doing anything similar? Melinda May took out 4 Primitives, and she didn't need a suit or gear to do it. Primitives were stated by their creator to have adrenaline induced stats, and to have retained their technical and combat skills.

Adrenaline has allowed real world humans to lift cars.

https://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/us/virginia-daughter-saves-dad/index.html

You can google several other cases like that one above.

Here's May vs Primitives:

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Here's Daisy vs two Kree; it's only two, but once again...superhuman stats:

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May is taken by surprise by a group of enhanced opponents with combat training. Primitives were shown to easily snap cuffs and to be able to break out of shipping container. The only reason she doesn't receive simultaneous attacks is because the first thing she does is knock one back, escape, and break their envelopment. In fact, the Primitives do at first try that, May intercepts them, even though she was in a belly to back clinch at the time. One holds her, while two go to strike. Talk all you want about Bat's impressive "skill" there, he wasn't good enough to prevent it from happening, and it resulted in him being shot in the head. No, May's opponents weren't armed, but Batman's opponents weren't enhanced, and he had armor to help defend himself against that...he wouldn't have blocked several of those knife strikes without gauntlets. He also wouldn't of pulled it off if his fodder wasn't dumb and just grabbed him, instead of conceding to stand there and take turns throwing strikes...in fact, as soon as they decided to do that, he got stabbed. And it only took two of them. Also, and I cannot stress this enough, it resulted in him being shot in the head. More than once.

Now, Bats did some amazing things there...disarming them. Dropping those flashes on them as he popped up through the floor...initiating chaos with his gear while still planning it out. It was dope, it was beautiful, and in a lot of ways it was better than what some of the agents can accomplish. However, what it does NOT show is that he is better, or even as good as the agents in direct unarmed fighting...he isn't. Be HONEST about the advantage his gear gives...and even with gear, what he faced in that room is not really beyond the abilities of a shield agent with a gun to overcome:

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Would the agents have done it the same way? Almost certainly not. Am I saying that Batman with gear wasn't impressive? Or that the warehouse scene isn't impressive? No. Am I saying, if for some reason someone thinks I am, that Ollie is not impressive as hell with a bow? NO. I AM NOT.

What I am saying is that if we look at who is more effective, whose approach is more effective; and who has shown to be better able to dictate how the fight takes place, so that it will be fought the way they want; it's the agents. The one who is more "skilled" at that, is going to win any battle, armed...unarmed; combat or sport...9 out of 10 times.

All I am trying to say is that this statement:

@subline said:

@supremegeneration

Please explain how they would beat him 1v1 when he is a much better fighter.

Is not really true in any observable sense.

and this statement:

@rostero10 said:

@supremegeneration: your saying that if one of those agents given the same tools as batman had in BVS in the warehouse scene, that one of them could take out all those 24 guys(and their not going easy on the agent)

Is irrelevant because ultimately, any of the agents probably wouldn't need that gear. They could do it with ICERS. Backscatter glasses have been used regularly in fact, if they really needed more of an edge. Melinda May used them when she helped Hunter against Ward, and she used them throughout season 4. Her entire team did.

If we seriously got into it, Bobbi's standard gear one shots him if she wants.

I just wasn't addressing it because I'm pretty sure those are both alias accounts of the same person. ;)

All I'm getting at is that this battle is lopsided towards the agents. Even the statement that "Ollie can definitely beat any of the 1 on 1" isn't necessarily true. You'd be really hard pressed to argue that with Daisy, Bobbi, May or Widow. As a matter of fact, there are threads dedicated to just that.

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#48 Posted by The_Magister (14712 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: You said basically what I was gonna say, but in better detail and with better phrasing. Nice work.

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#49 Edited by PayneInTheAss (12019 posts) - - Show Bio

Boys

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#50 Posted by Unidan (15 posts) - - Show Bio

Bobbi/May/Daisy have the capability to one shot both of them with an ICER, and Bobbi/Nat can do the same with their electric gear. Even if it came down to H2H, Bobbi/Daisy are more than capable of beating Oliver on their own, together it's not fair, and May/Nat can hold off Bruce long enough.