CW Flash vs 2MAU Captain America

Barry has no way to hurt Cap. Cap one-shots.

Cap can tank a supersonic punch and a lightning toss?

Barry one shotted the atom with his lightning and Wally punched out music meister when he had super girls powers. I don't think cap is that tough.

@monstrous93:

Yes.

Cap can tank a supersonic punch

and a lightning toss?

@jashro44:

Name a durability feat for Atom and I'll top it with one for Cap.

Wally punching out Meister is completely inconsistent, considering that super sonic punches from both Wally and Barry were unable to K.O. Grodd and even his fodder apes.

Yea, Cap wins this. Barry doesn't have the striking power to take him out.

@bladeoffury:

Name a durability feat for Atom and I'll top it with one for Cap.

It doesn't matter if you can. Barry took him out in one hit. All though I honestly doubt cap is more durable than dwarf star alloy which can pierce steels flesh, despite him being over 100x more durable than regular metal. Also the Atom took a missile, than crashed through the plane and wasn't even knocked out from his landing despite bull rushing through the jet with enough speed to take the plane out:

Mean while someonoe posted gifs in another thread of cap having a hard time with black widow and looking up some fights on youtube he's been harmed by the likes of crossbones and black panther. So I have my doubts when you take away PIS feats from the equation like cap taking hits from an 100 tonner he has the feats to match atoms...Even if he did that wouldn't be enough because flash one shotted Ray. You'd need to show me Cap surpassing the atoms feat by a significant degree.

Wally punching out Meister is completely inconsistent, considering that super sonic punches from both Wally and Barry were unable to K.O. Grodd and even his fodder apes.

Grodd caught a super sonic punch and he isn't a regular gorrila. He tanked being hit with a train back in season one and we don't know if he was knocked out from that. Regardless Barry one shotted Solovar via the trick he used on reverse flash. Solovar is superior to Grodd over all and he has much better strength feats. He was creating shockwaves which sent Barry flying when Barry was running around the gladiator ring.

I honestly don't see Barry losing to a street leveler at this point assuming he fights competently like he did against super girl, Zoom, Savitar, etc.

@jashro44: Here are some of Cap's durability feats.

Durability:

AA Cap is very durable, here he tanks a hit from Screaming Mimi's sound attack.

This is how powerful her sound attacks are.

Yea, Cap simply shrugged off that. AA Cap tanked two punches from a gamma powered Red Skull.

Gamma powered Red Skull was a hulk level opponent, he completely demolished Hulk only a few short moments before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UsG4jlnO3A

Here Cap gets slammed into the ground repeatedly by an amped Hulk, this is the Hulk who can pull tectonic plates.

https://youtu.be/BL2UASAFNF8?list=PL8Jfy26H_fvZ-cdL-8iDUMxqvkJdegEvh

In the video above, it shows that Cap tanked a massive explosion head on, Ironman even says "Next time, lets not all hit the power core at once. That statement clearly shows that Cap wouldn't of had time to defend himself and he took the blast straight to the face.

Here is another massive explosion that Cap tanks.

@jashro44: I wouldn’t call it PIS. Crossbones has hurt Spider-Man who no-sold a fall through building and Black Panther has hurt Ares/Hercules and physically strong enough to slow down a charge from Ares. Not to mention the fact that Crossbones seemed amped in the episode, like walking through bullets unharmed (though he did tank being stomped on by a giant robot in the Ultimate Spider Man series) and the fact what Crossbones did to Cap was closer to staggering him than actual hurting him, while sombody like Spider-Man whose durability feats are near atom was floored every time Crossbones hit him. Black Widow didn’t hurt him, she outmaneuvered him while he was holding back and then put him into a hammer lock which is made to deal with people with superior strength. Him taking hits from 100+ tonners isn’t PIS when you have three seasons of him doing it and only very recently has he been “hurt” by Black Panther and Crossbones. Even then, those are the only instances of him being “hurt” by less than 100+ tonners throughout 3 freaking seasons. As for super-sonic punches, Cap tanks a Hypersonic+ punch from Falcon right in the first episode of AA. That said, Barry put Cap down via phasing

@thunderprince:

What I view as PIS is the writer having something happen that logically shouldn't for the sake of plot. Like in the above gif you guys brought up cap taking hits from an amped hulk, and saying that is the same hulk that held tectonic plates together. This isn't the type of feat that is exclusive to AA Cap.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about using batman:

Even when I do use feats of 100 tonners hitting people like batman I always make sure to note the force they were hit with can only be quantified based on what is shown or stated on panel. For example:

Gallery

In instances like these even though the 100 tonners who hit batman are bloodlusted and are actually trying to kill batman I don't argue nonsense like "batman can take hits which launch him into orbit". The way I argue these feats is we can only judge the force that we see these characters exert on panel. For example superman hits batman and sends him flying into the batmobile. Martian manhunter hits batman through some gym equipment, and than tackles him through a wall in the bat cave. And wonder woman slams batmans face into the ground to create a crater.

Basically I would never use these sorts of feats to argue that batman's durability is massively super human and that daredevil would tire himself out from punching batman for days. At best I think there is a middle ground when it comes to feats like these. And what even is your point?

Basically I don't think writers are saying that batman can be punched to the moon, or punched into orbit and he will be fine. This is why when he look at these feats we have to observe how hard batman was hit on panel, and usually he is only hit to the point where he creates small craters in the ground, or goes flying through the air.

Same logic can be applied to cap. When Thanos hits him he rolls a few on the ground, rather than send cap flying to the moon like what happened with Thor. When cap tanks that scream it doesn't create the same collateral damage, and only sends him flying a few feet. When red skull punches cap he doesn't punch cap through the earth or anything like that, he sent him flying through pillars.

Hulk slamming cap into the ground and cratering it is very impressive but its not "can tank missiles and crash through planes" impressive to me because the measurable amount of force is lesser. Tanking the explosions is OK but cap would only have to tank the surface area of his body, not the whole explosions I can't tell how powerful that first explosion was because the video starts out after the explosion already blew up. The second one looks kind of building level to me which isn't out of street level territory.

I also think there is a different between tanking punches and tanking explosions. Punches are much more concentrated.

This animated cap is such a pis machine, I wouldn't be surprised if he would be able to take down Barry.

@jashro44: Understandable.

Here is a GIF of the first explosion.

The second explosion was incredibly big, it easily dwarfs the skyscrapers next to it and it shakes the entire island.

Cap also posses the ability to one-shot Barry and he has the speed to do it. Cap can easily keep up with Baron Zemo who is a causal lightning timer.

@thunderprince: How close to the explosion was cap in the first gif? Lightning timing....I guess if we are taking that feat literally caps reflexes are over 14000. I usually take lightning timing feats with a grain of salt though.

Cap stomps.

@jashro44: Probably very close to it consider how he had to hit the internal part of the machine

AA Cap 1 taps.

Meister made it clear he let them grab him. He was teaching them a lesson remember? Wally was afraid to use his powers at the time.

Flash

Cap is damn well not street I'd argue this could be decently fair.

He still looked like he was knocked out to me. All though I see your point.

Same logic can be applied to cap. When Thanos hits him he rolls a few on the ground, rather than send cap flying to the moon like what happened with Thor. When cap tanks that scream it doesn't create the same collateral damage, and only sends him flying a few feet. When red skull punches cap he doesn't punch cap through the earth or anything like that, he sent him flying through pillars.

I don't believe that the force of a punch is any less if the target wasn't sent flying an enormous distance. I think it mostly has to do with how the force is applied. Here is some evidence:

1.

As you know, Thanos punched Thor to the moon:

That same Thanos punches Thor so hard that he almost K.O.es him despite Thor blocking:

Yet, Thor isn't even sent flying a foot, and there is no damage done to the ground.

2.

In this fight from JLU, Superman punches Darkseid numerous times with Darkseid barely getting sent back several feet:

Yet, the punch at 1:08 sent Darkseid flying through 7 scryscrapers... It is unreasonable to think that that specific punch was leagues above all the other punches. He even hit Darkseid from a similar bullrush at 0:14.

These two examples show that the damage done by a punch that sends someone flying a good distance is not necessarily greater than the damage done by a punch that does not share such collateral damage or visual impressiveness. There are numerous more examples.

How can Steve tag Barry he's way to fast, Anyway's I think flash takes this due to the massive speed gap and I don't think Steve can withstand a supersonic punch and even if he does it will do great damage to him, Or flash can just wear Cap down and weaken him until he can be taken out by the Punch.

@bladeoffury: Your confused. I'm not saying because thanos didn't punch for to the moon in the second gif that means that Thors durability is weak. I'm saying the second gif is unmeasurable and we can't quantify it past what we visually see unlike the first gif. Same logic applies to cap. Just because cap took hits from thanos doesn't mean he would survive a punch from someone much weaker who hit him to the moon.

Generally the problem with ABC scaling is that just because a character has striking feat A and hit character B, doesn't mean that character B has durability equivalent to A. Because characters can throw different attacks with different levels of force and of course you can't assume that every attack they throw is equivalent.

@chronicplane: Cap tanks a high hypersonic+ punch from Falcon right in the first episode of AA. Remember Girder ? Yeah, Flash fails to even hurt him using normal speed punches and nearly broke his arm punching Girder’s face. Same Girder nearly got one-shot by a Supersonic punch while Cap tanked a High Hypersonic+ punch. Cap is so much more durable than Girder that Barry would literally break his hands punching Cap, especially if he use a Supersonic punch. Cap can react to heat vision AFTER it has been fired and repulsor beam that has mass yet can atomise people. He is more than fast enough to react to Barry, whether by scaling or by actual feat

No writer in their right mind would have any version of Flash lose to any version of Cap.

@the_magister: well lucky for us, AA writers are always high as f**k consider how they write Cap being able to stomp a dude who lift skyscraper

. That and CW Barry jobs to almost any superheroes when they fought

@ldm: stop Barry doesn't job as much as y'all say he dies just stop bar

@thedarkking25: we will see

The only superhero he jobbed against was the Arrow, and that was while effected by rainbow raider.Right after that flash beat oliver offscreen.

Barry stomps. Phase assault and Caps dead.

@tj849:

And why would an in character Barry kill?

@bladeoffury: to get the job done , eventually. Also Cap cannot tag s4 ep 1 barry.

Flash wins if he plays it smart.

But he won't.

@tj849:

Barry would rather be K.O.ed than kill someone. Captain America doesn't look like a villain, he's just an opponent.

And also, has Barry hurt anyone as durable as Cap with his phasing?

The PIS machine stomps

@bladeoffury: And if you're gonna keep playing the "Barry doesnt wanna kill", then he can just paralyze Cap when it comes to it. The 2MAU Cap wank is ridiculous, you really think he can resist phase attacks? Come on bro. How can Cap even tag him to start off with?

@tj849:

And if you're gonna keep playing the "Barry doesnt wanna kill", then he can just paralyze Cap when it comes to it.

Name one time when Barry paralyzed an opponent and I'll concede.

The 2MAU Cap wank is ridiculous,

It's no the wank that's ridiculous, it's the feats that are.

you really think he can resist phase attacks? Come on bro.

Actually, I don't. It's crazy to think that. However, from a purely debating standpoint, Barry has never hurt anyone anywhere near as durable as Cap, so this argument can be made valid.

How can Cap even tag him to start off with?

Just like he tagged Nova and Hyperion. Just like Flash got tagged by pretty much anyone he goes against. Barry also didn't do well against opponents with shields, like Grodd and Solovar. He just ran into them and got rag dolled. If he does that against Cap, he gets one-shotted.

@bladeoffury:

1. In the most recent episode of the flash, I think it was Caitlin or Cisco (cant remember but yh) who said thats the fastest they've seen any speedster run. Of course he can paralyze, you really dont feats for that. We've seen plenty of times in the flash where Barry phases with his hand, do you really need a feat to see if he can do it with just his finger and tapping Caps spine?

2. Yeah thats what I mean, some of those feats are straight PIS but oh well.

3. I swear hes hurt Grodd before? Am I wrong? No matter how durable you are you cannot resist phase assaults (correct me if im wrong on this)

4. S4 EP1 Flash would probably put up a different fight. Plus someone who works on the production of the show said that we'll be seeing a more powerful Barry this season, new abilities etc. so not really a lot of jobbing. He didnt even job against the samuari who stomped Vibe and Kid Flash.

@bladeoffury:

Actually, I don't. It's crazy to think that. However, from a purely debating standpoint, Barry has never hurt anyone anywhere near as durable as Cap, so this argument can be made valid.

Wally has one shotted Music Miester who had supergirl's powers, so flash(who is far faster as of now) should be able to knock out Cap.

@tj849:

1. In the most recent episode of the flash, I think it was Caitlin or Cisco (cant remember but yh) who said thats the fastest they've seen any speedster run. Of course he can paralyze, you really dont feats for that. We've seen plenty of times in the flash where Barry phases with his hand, do you really need a feat to see if he can do it with just his finger and tapping Caps spine?

Of course Barry can paralyze, it's just that he won't. A bloodlusted Flash would kill Cap, but never in character. Barry didn't see Cap kill anyone, and Barry didn't even kill/paralyze the villains who murdered his parents. Paralyzing is too inhumane for the hero of central city.

3. I swear hes hurt Grodd before? Am I wrong?

Flash sort of hurt Grodd with a supersonic punch in their season 2 rematch, but he didn't K.O. him. Not that it matters, considering that Cap is significantly more durable than Grodd via feats.

No matter how durable you are you cannot resist phase assaults (correct me if im wrong on this)

Flash phased through Supergirl, but he never hurt her with it. From what I understand, speedsters can phase through most materials, no matter how durable they are. However, in order to actually kill or hurt someone with it, the speedster needs to stop phasing once inside his target's body. If Flash tries solidifying his hand on a metal wall or something, he should get his arm broken.

I can't say for sure though, since phasing is the most inconsistent, NLF, and plot-changing thing second to DCEU Doomsday.

4. S4 EP1 Flash would probably put up a different fight. Plus someone who works on the production of the show said that we'll be seeing a more powerful Barry this season, new abilities etc. so not really a lot of jobbing. He didnt even job against the samuari who stomped Vibe and Kid Flash.

Wow, I never noticed that the new season started already! We can't assume that he will have amazing feats before we actually see them however, even though we can predict it.

@watcher5000:

Wally has one shotted Music Miester who had supergirl's powers

1. Yea, after he got bullrushed by Martian Manhunter so hard that Miester could barely stand up...
2. This is inconsistent with Flash being unable to K.O. Girder and Grodd (twice) with a super sonic punch.
3. If we go by Cap's inconsistent feats, he wrestled with Thor and was unaffected by being present next to the Earth's core, which is hotter than the sun...

@bladeoffury:

Yea, after he got bullrushed by Martian Manhunter so hard that Miester could barely stand up...

When was he shown having trouble standing?

This is inconsistent with Flash being unable to K.O. Girder and Grodd (twice) with a super sonic punch.

Flash was slower than Wally at that point.

If we go by Cap's inconsistent feats, he wrestled with Thor

I am sure Thor wasn't going all out.

and was unaffected by being present next to the Earth's core, which is hotter than the sun...

That's not even a feat, that's just stupidity.Like Spider-Man beating Firelord stupid.

bump

Non jobbing flash stomps

Flash with ease, this version of Captain America is OP but he simply cannot perceive Flash unless he starts jobbing..

barry phases their hearts

cw flash is a jobber

Cap takes him out with his shield

Although bloodlusted barry will phase his hearts

In character Flash loses, out of character flash wins.

The Flash wins.