CW Dante ( Arrow ) VS MCU Matt Murdock

VS

Strictly H2H

@tonymartial@rbt

@mexcomics2078: what are his feats not caught up on Arrow

Had a short fight with Oliver and though Oliver was getting a few hits in, Dante was winning and the fight only ended due to interference upon which Dante retreated.

@savage86lunacy: Hm so not enough to really determine than but based off that till we get more feats for Dante I say Matt can win this mid to high deff

Dante was beating Oliver handily. I fail to see how this isn’t an absolute low diff stomp. Matt isn’t on the same league as someone like Oliver, and Dante clearly had the upper hand on Ollie.

@savage86lunacy: Oliver got one hit in, Dante got 4, plus the throw on Oliver, and the fight ended with Oliver on the ground. That’s the first time in about 4 years that Oliver has really lost a “fair” H2H fight.

*yes Dante had his knives but he didn’t actually take them out until Oliver was gone the ground beaten, at which point Lyla interfered*

That being said, I think it was made abundantly clear Dante is more skilled than Oliver. That alone makes this thread a stomp in his favor :P

Dante

Even if Matt had his suit and batons I'd still say Dante.

Too early to tell

^^

5 bucks says Oliver will either mop the floor with him or have a decisive upper hand on him next fight.

For now Im backing Matt

Dante should win, if he beat Oliver comfortably.

Dante lacks standalone feats, but if he continues to operate at this level then he will win without too much difficulty. It's already been brought up that he had a 4-1 hit advantage over Oliver - also worth mentioning that the only hit Oliver landed was when he did an acrobatic move that looked like it was going to be a kick, but then hit Dante with his bow. It wasn't a casual hit but one that had to be set up and thought out.

Slicing consecutive arrows out of the air with knives already gives him a speed advantage, not that it matters much.

Matt was doing the same thing with his billy clubs against Hand archers in the S2 finale

I'm gonna need some more consistency from Dante before I say he's comfortably Ollie+ tier (and some explanation as to how he got so skilled)

For now, one fight in his first appearance isn't enough

Oliver's bow has superior draw weight and therefore his arrows travel's faster. Not that it means much.

Maybe, but Matt was deflecting shots from multiple archers

@arcus1: @thesuperor: While he does lack feats, Dante was clearly comfortably beating Oliver. Matt Murdock simply isn't on that level. Sure he has the same reactions as Oliver does, but that's due to his superhuman senses. His senses have never prevented him from beating someone more skilled than him. Nobu and Stick have both kicked his ass.

Dante is more skilled than either of those 2 by far. Dante beating Oliver wasn't even questionable. If Lyla wasn't there, Oliver was done. He was literally on the ground and Dante was preparing to finish him with his knives.

Matt, even with his amazing reflexes, isn't gonna be able to beat someone who is this far out of his league.

Just for reference on how far Matt is behind someone like Oliver, Matt does not have a single feat that is more impressive than any of Oliver's top 10 feats. Not to mention Oliver regularly hangs with metahumans, aliens, fought the flash, Matt doesn't have feats like that. So the fact that Dante was handily beating Oliver is a huge feat. Sure he hasn't fought anyone else yet, like Rene or Diggle, but I don't see why that would matter when he was already beating THE BEST.

Did you know that Matt was able to fight Elektra known as the Black Sky who bested Luke Cage? And The Flash was weak while fighting Oliver.

Mattathias.

@vacanus: I don't think it is that clear cut. I need to see more from Dante to really evaluate him. If we see him go up against Oliver again and fight on par with him, that's enough for me. But I can't really evaluate him currently.

@assemblesquad:

Did you know that Matt was able to fight Elektra known as the Black Sky who beat Luke Cage? And The Flash was weak while fighting Oliver.

Let's not go there. Those feats aren't comparable in the slightest.

@thesuperor: That's fair, it was a rather quick fight, but he was quite clearly outclassing him. Let's also appreciate that Oliver had every conceivable advantage. He had the gear, he had the element of surprise, he had A.R.G.U.S. Dante didn't even know it was a set up before Diaz told him.

With what we saw, he was definitely outclassing Oliver, and the fight ended with Dante about to throw knives had Oliver had Lyla not shown up. I'm sure Oliver wouldn't have died, but he did clearly win the fight. Seems kind of weird not to at least acknowledge that or accept it as a feat :P It's not like we ignored Ras destroying Oliver in 3x09, etc. Granted this wasn't AS one sides, but Oliver is vastly superior to even Ras now, so anyone beating him AT ALL is an incredible feat ._.

I just think it should be acknowledged.

@assemblesquad: Flash wasn't weakened. Oliver has fought people far stronger and more dangerous than Elektra or Luke Cage :P

bait

@vacanus: So would Oliver vs Bushmaster be fair match?

That's very flawed scaling my dude. That's not how this works.

Matt

@vacanus: ok I did not know he was stomping Ollie like that

On-paper logic doesn't matter. Accept that writers who don't value feats instead of writing/portrayal/etc. are dangerously arrogant.

@assemblesquad: Oliver would definitely beat Bushmaster. I'm not sure about Bushmaster AFTER he took the serum though. But Oliver would definitely beat original Bushmaster.

@joshua755: Wouldn't call it a stomp, but he was clearly handily winning the fight. Oliver would destroy Matt (Idk how anyone debates that, Oliver is so unrealistic lol), Dante is just not someone Matt would be able to handle. Matt's incredibly skilled, but CW characters are just too unrealistic, and also... more skilled.

@vacanus: Why?

Dante wins low-diff.

Lmao

Matt for now.

@arcus1 said:

@asphaltairborne: Oliver is vastly more skilled than Bushmaster, and has beat people who are more durable. He's taken down dominators, Damien Darhk, and "Solomun Grundy". Not to mention fought and beat meta's. Bushmaster isn't skilled enough to put Oliver down.

@danieldaripper: May I ask what your argument is for Matt winning? I love Matt as much as the next guy, he's incredibly skilled, never gives up, but he is susceptible to losing to people who are more skilled than him. Matt just isn't on the same level in terms of Oliver in terms of skill, or... almost anything besides senses/reactions, so I can't understand how he would even come CLOSE to Dante.

But I'm willing to have my mind changed, I do love Matt :P

@vacanus: Sure...but skill doesn't always win you a fight

Do you think Oliver could replicate John's performances against Luke Cage, staggering him tanking his blows.

I don't remember ever taking down a Dominater...I remember him being whacked off the roof by one, he stalemated him for about 5 seconds. Oliver was on the losing side to Cyrus every time they fought, he beat him via gear and blowing up the centrifuge

Skill isn't what puts people down-its strength and Bushmaster has plenty of that

Because Dante has only one feat so far and that feat is giving Oliver a good fight which Matt should be able to do as well based on how well he performed against Elektra and Danny. A lot of the fight happened off screen as well so while yes from what we did see Dante got in more hits this might not be the case if we had actually seen what happened off screen. I think we need to see more of Dante to be able to properly evaluate him.

He's talking about this:

@danieldaripper said:

@asphaltairborne said:

@vacanus: Sure...but skill doesn't always win you a fight

Do you think Oliver could replicate John's performances against Luke Cage, staggering him tanking his blows.

I don't remember ever taking down a Dominater...I remember him being whacked off the roof by one, he stalemated him for about 5 seconds. Oliver was on the losing side to Cyrus every time they fought, he beat him via gear and blowing up the centrifuge

Skill isn't what puts people down-its strength and Bushmaster has plenty of that

He's talking about this:

Diggle definitely shoots that Dominator in the eye

@arcus1: The Dominator was already down before the muzzle even flashed.

Let's get back to this thread when he loses to Oliver next episode.

He didn't beat Oliver, the fight ended with both of them standing back up and ready to carry on. Oliver is almost certainly more skilled but he's been pretty iffy with a lot of his showings this season so I wouldn't give it too much credit. That said, season 7 Oliver is still > Matt so Dante should take it.

@arcus1: As RBT said the Dominator was already falling down before the muzzle flash.

@danieldaripper: ehh, not sure how legit Id take that given he outright loses to one later when the focus is on him and not in the background

Dante.