Current Shanks vs Current Yuno

1, Mana Zone isn't something that expands, it just immediately spawns on the space the user chose to.

2, Shanks and Yuno are 120 meters away from each other, Yuno's spells can reach kilometers and even this specific Mana Zone could cover the entire capital, which is several kilometers wide. Meaning even if Yuno had to expand it, Shanks would need to travel more than a kilometer before Yuno does despite his ridiculous speed compared to Yuno. That's assuming Shanks would even try to dodge it as he has no Magic and therefore cannot sense the magic output of the spell, and the fact that the spell doesn't even do damage nor visible hax to begin with.

3, FS isn't a time power but it still reads the future, if time doesn't move he would either see Yuno starting from the moment time moves again (basically after the battle), or he won't be able to see anything at all. Yuno and everyone else's time is stopped inside Neverland so they are in the same instant until time moves again, meaning Yuno's actions within this subspace can't be foreseen as it's not the future, merely and extended present (with the future starting when he stops the spell or goes out of it) Like you said, time is individual, so Shanks won't see Yuno's future.

And let's not forget Shanks hasn't showcased time Resistance so he can't even do anything in stopped time

Damn how did this reach 6 pages long?

Lmao Look at kroby and decaff with their fellow alts dick riding fodder yuno without shame

I swear less popular shonen gets away with a lot of bullshit scaling ..usually because the only one's making it a little bit known are the fanboys which majority of them are wankers

🤦🏾 ..just look at the dumbass scaling used to get yuno at continental lmao

If we did this to op in the past ..no one would agree and a lot would be against it because op would be MC even at pre timeskip or more.

Since we are being disingenuous here and ignoring alot of context on what aspects of power not to scale characters off let's try the same logic with op :

Pre timeskip luffy >Shiki who has MC+feats >other warlords & lucci >Enel was about to vaporise the entirety of skypeia which is in the large country tier

And pulling out multipliers like that when hody multipliers exist or even gears multipliers with its multiple cliffing.

......

Yuno still has no answer to shanks haki paralysis

Shanks stomps ..he doesn't even need fs here ..yuno can be faster and buzz around him like a fly but a simple haki burst from shanks stops that.

@kajin_style: Yeah no offense but this isn't correct at all.

1.) Shanks would definitely be inside Neverland because it's easily Island Sized he has no choice but to be inside it.

2.) You're wrong about how time works because if the flow of time is stopped Yuno has no future that's a fact.

3.) Future Sight is bound by time in no way shape or form does it counter time based hax.

One Piece fans be eating the cope cope fruit

Can supreme king negate star magic? I mean if so then Shanks just one shots if not Yuno does. Maybe Ryo or Advance Kings haki can neg matter deleting magic because it isnt matter

@rip_meruem: yuno has Powernull resistance

For people saying he uses neverland,

What stops Shanks from immediatelyt using haki paralysis?

Why is CoC supposed to scare Yuno? I've asked this several times and all I get in return is "It startled a Admiral!." and?

1.) Neverland has a set size. Shanks doesn't need to be inside to hurt Yuno, he has range attacks with his sword. Yuno has to expand its range and Shanks can move out of that range.

2.) If time is stopped, then Yuno can't move, he needs time to move. So anytime he is talking and moving, time is also moving. If time is moving, there is a future.

3). Future Sight is an advance form of pre-cognition so more mind powers than time powers. It is knowing what this one specific person is going to do in the next 10 seconds. While there is an element of time in it, that isn't the whole power.

@kajin_style:

1.) It having a set size doesn't matter because Yuno can just move the Zone if Shanks does escape.

2.) If this was true Lucius' time magic would work on Yuno so your argument is a bit redundant.

3.) You're seriously arguing that seeing 10 seconds into the future isn't time based at all lmao.

Guys come on. If time doesn’t pass Shanks isn’t seeing the future, and Yuno can literally manipulate his Stars at FTL+ speeds.

He sets it up and then they brawl inside of it

@kajin_style:

I agree with FS being more mind base..

...Still waiting for an explanation why they believe FS should be placed under the umbrella of time based abilities, instead of ESP.... it's just another way to gain information, for haki users. -- Just, why?

Considering the other aspects of CoO: sensing emotion, location, strength... everything indicates that FS is simply a facet of ESP avaliable to proficient users of CoO haki...

But I'm willing to wait and see if anyone can prove otherwise... until then, all we have is approximately 2 pages of Decaff and co. demonstrating that they believe an assumption, followed by LMAO is all what one requires when constructing what they believe to be a solid argument:

.."You're seriously arguing that seeing 10 seconds into the future isn't time based at all lmao."

--Decagg

Yuno could very well win this...

But considering everything that's been mentioned in the thread thus far, he can't prevent shanks from using FS.

There are not one but TWO people who can't wrap their heads around how seeing the FUTURE requires time to flow forward. This is shocking.

@wk_decaff:

??? Is that it... an insult...

If you can't understand, more importantly refute, that advanced CO haki essentially gives one ESP, including the basic CoO abilities, sensing emotions, strengths, intentions of others, and later, as explained before, the ability to see the future.

These are all aspects of CoO... to argue that FS is dependent on time as opposed to something akin to ESP, is to argue that either FS is actually not a part of CoO Haki, OR that the abiliy to sense emotions and strength also falls under the umbrella of time based abilities...

It was better when you just included an assumption, and followed it with LMAO... Because then you wouldn't have made the mistake of posting this nonsense....

@almightyamortal: What does FUTURE Sight see? 😂

@wk_decaff: ... try to include something resembling evidence... it would most definitely be more effective than your poor attempt at ridicule...

... I expect to see canon OP material that dictates that FS is so different from basic CoO haki that it makes sense to place it apart from the rest, as opposed to merely a different facet to the sensory abilities of haki.

@almightyamortal: What does FUTURE Sight, see? Don't just ignore the question.

Shanks cause Yuno is one of the worst shounen side characters in history

@wk_decaff:

"What does FUTURE Sight see? 😂"

... so... you have nothing?

Edit: No canon evidence... Just another assumption followed by an attempt at humor?

I'll give you another chance...

Or, you could do what you did before - pretend you've achieved something and run away -- you fooled no one...

That's what I thought, lmao.

You can not think that Future Sight and the ability to see the FUTURE would work without a flow of time. The assumption is a contradiction, so you can't answer the question you would rather ask me to prove a negative. The burden is on you btw to prove it would work without the flow of time.

@wk_decaff: ... this isn't a conversation. If it was you would be paying attention and may have noticed that how OP characters saw the future was already explained.

The key point being that the process is more important as not than the result, when classifying abilities.

"What does FUTURE Sight see? 😂"

Waiting for you to prove canon op material wrong... prove that FS is not a part of CoO haki...

@wk_decaff:

" That's what I thought, lmao.

You can not think that Future Sight and the ability to see the FUTURE would work without a flow of time. The assumption is a contradiction, so you can't answer the question you would rather ask me to prove a negative. The burden is on you btw to prove it would work without the flow of time."

???? lol... no attempt whatsoever to prove your argument, when it was I that asked for clarification to why such a thing shouldn't dismissed due to its ridiculousness.

Anyone who sees this, will see that all you've done in this exchange is, insult me, make a poor attempt at humor, avoid the question, and now finally shift the Burden of proof on me...

Just answer my initial question... where is the proof that FS should be apart from the rest of CoO

@wk_decaff:

That's what I thought, lmao.

"You can not think that Future Sight and the ability to see the FUTURE would work without a flow of time. The assumption is a contradiction, so you can't answer the question you would rather ask me to prove a negative. The burden is on you btw to prove it would work without the flow of time."

you a re only proving you aren't following the conversation... FS us simply an aspect of the ESP like abilities CoO gives its users...

Still waiting for you to prove why this is not the case.

This was explained in the manga as a CoO ability...

That's the third time now. Are you going to actually provide evidence, or will you avoid it again?

@wk_decaff:

You do know what ESP is right?

where is the proof that FS should be apart from the rest of CoO

This question is redundant.

If CoO and FS are the same, everyone with CoO would have FS; FS is an advanced version that reads the future. CoO can't read the future like FS. Nobody said otherwise if the argument is that Shanks can still use CoO. It's FS he can't use. Everything about this "debate" has been a meme. That's why it's getting treated like a joke. You have zero evidence that FS works without a future.

@wk_decaff:

"This question is redundant.

If CoO and FS are the same, everyone with CoO would have FS; FS is an advanced version that reads the future. CoO can't read the future like FS. Nobody said otherwise if the argument is that Shanks can still use CoO. It's FS he can't use. Everything about this "debate" has been a meme. That's why it's getting treated like a joke. You have zero evidence that FS works without a future"

... a question is not redundant simply because you don't want to answer it... you pretending it is, is only funny thing I've seen you post.

If nobody said otherwise whydid it take you so long to answer?

If, as you say, FS and CoO is the same, merely different applications of one ability, although one is certainly of a higher level, then I'm going to need more than just your insistence that FS is not more related to the mental abilities like other CoO applications. - edit: they are, after all, all sourced from the same root ability.

...?? Zero evidence? Anyone who reads this will see that I simply asked for evidence to value the strength of your argument, you followed that (three times?) by avoiding the question to make a joke, alonly to then shift the burden of proof.

If anyone is lacking evidence it obviously isn't me.

@wk_decaff:

Ignore this spelling errors and possible repeated posts. I am using my phone, and it is misbehaving.

On topic: where is the scan or quote from databook that FS is not part of CoO? Or where it states that the means of acquiring visions of the future is in some way unique, different to other applications of CoO?

I explained why it's redundant by not only answering your question but telling you how they're different. If you're not going to debate don't tag me.

@wk_decaff:

" I explained why it's redundant by not only answering your question but telling you how they're different. If you're not going to debate don't tag me."

1) you haven't answered my question. Anyone who read this can see that.

2)You also haven't provided proof that FS is in some way unique, in that it should not be considered something like ESP, like other aspects of CoO

3) You immediately considered this a debate - which is likely why this conversation is moving at a snail's pace. Anyone who actually reads this like I do, won't see a debate, they would just see me asking you a question, and you not answering.

You've only proven that you can't follow a conversation, or provide evidence to support your argument, and that you seemingly have little clue what ESP is - look into any piece of fiction where it is featured e.g. movies like push (Chris Evans) where espers see the future, the live action x-men movies (where psychics like Jean Grey foresee the future)...

I just wanted you to definitively prove that FS was more time based than psychic... if anything, I would have gladly agreed with you if you included anything resembling valid evidence from a canon source.

Post 277 answers your question

@kajin_style:

Dcaff can't answer a simple question from a neutral third party (i never actually stated that I was confident in my knowledge of which of the two fighters would win)...

Decafg would rather insult me, change the topic, shift the burden of proof, than move the conversation forward... if you are going to continue this... I suggest taking things slow, for devaff's sake. Maybe phrase things so that that they don't appear to be a question...lol, you won't get anywhere otherwise.

@wk_decaff:

"Post 277 answers your question"

LMAO... Was this to me?

You know, I'm starting to understand why you might consider yourself funny - you can be ridiculous at times...

For instance, that post still has no proof sourced from canon that FS is not simply one of a number of 'psychic' type abilities given to CoO users.

It proves nothing.

I'm starting to think you can't read

@wk_decaff:

As stated before:

" I just wanted you to definitively prove that FS was more time based than psychic... if anything, I would have gladly agreed with you if you included anything resembling valid evidence from a canon source"

You just haven't provided anything that definitively proves FS is different to CoO in the wsy you describe.

"If CoO and FS are the same, everyone with CoO would have FS; FS is an advanced version that readd the future. CoO can't read the future like FS." - you

Simply stating it is different, due to its ability to see the future is weakest and strangest attempt at an argument. FS's purpose isto see the future. I could just as easily say that the part of CoO that senses emotion cannot allow one to sense another's strength, using your logic this exclusions automatically proves one is inherently superior to the other regardless of how one values either ability.

@wk_decaff:

"I'm starting to think you can't read"

by now, everyone will see that you can't answer a simple question and provide proof for your answer. All you can do is insult someone... "lol" ...

Just provide some evidence - note: "evidence" here refers to something extracted from canon material, such as the manga or a secondary source related to manga

- this obviously excludes any hypothetical scenarios or other nonsense you likely would have responded with... it shouldn't have had to be explained, but people who've read what you provided in this conversation will likely see reason for me doing so.

@almightyamortal: @wk_decaff: Hmm Observation Haki put simply is just enhanced sensing. People seeing the future is not tied to time powers just that their SENSING capabilities are so great they can see the near future as we know it.

Gallery

Anyways that'll be all.

Holy shit, how this managed to reach 6 pages is beyond me.

@plaguedocter: Believe me... I know all of that.

I just wanted tobgive decaf the opportunity (multiple times) to prove what he was saying... he never took it.

Dcaf would rather argue than provide something that supports his answer to a question, or admit mistake.

@plaguedocter: You can't see the future if there is no time flow.

Stop conflating the fact that FS is not a time-based ability with the fact that forward progression in time is required to see the future.

@wk_decaff: It's sensory not temporal. Think of it like a mental image of what's to come not the actual future (even if it is the "future").

I think that should clear it up.

@plaguedocter: It is the future; you're actively trying to downplay your verse to avoid conceding a point. Shanks saw 10 seconds into the future. That is a fact, and it's not something you can do without the forward progress of time.

@wk_decaff said:

1) It is the future; you're actively trying to downplay your verse to avoid conceding a point.

How is it downplaying, it's effect stays the same the only differance is in the way it is achieved... in no way am I downplaying the verse...

2) Shanks saw 10 seconds into the future. That is a fact, and it's not something you can do without the forward progress of time.

Yep he did, he sure did see what was supposedly going to happen in the next ten seconds... and that proves it's temporal... how??? It's Observation Haki it's sensory.

Literally look at this panel with Luffy (see below) you can see the Future without the need of it being tied to time and instead being tied to one's highly refined sensory capabilities... of which is even noted in the other page with Bege denoting Katakuri's ability to see the future with how refined his Observation Haki is (sensory capabilties).

Gallery

You have yet to disprove a single thing I have shown of which is directly on panel and should have no chance of refutation.

This didn't need so many pages. Yuno still wins.

@plaguedocter: It's downplaying because you're arguing that Shanks' FS is figurative and not literal which is downplayed because he literally sees the future. This is hyper cope to avoid admitting that Neverland > FS and the consequence of that is downplaying Shanks.

@wk_decaff said:

1) It's downplaying because you're arguing that Shanks' FS is figurative and not literal which is downplayed because he literally sees the future. This is hyper cope to avoid admitting that Neverland > FS and the consequence of that is downplaying Shanks.

Uh huh... still haven't disproved anything now have you...

And once again as I literally said in my previous post it's EFFECT IS STILL THE SAME but the way it is ACHIEVED IS DIFFERENT (Temporal vs Sensory). So no its not downplaying it at all it still works just like it does but just isn't linked to time in the way YOU want it to be. You are coping all I have to do is post this SINGULAR PAGE and your entire arguement is immediately refuted...

You have yet to even remotely acknowledge this (see above page).

In the same way you have completly ignored the basis in which Observation Haki works in the first place... as in it's a power which enhanced your sensory capabilities.

Same dude who argued Luffy against CF Garou. Yuno destroys.