@rikuyamaha: he wins momoshiki, due to raw strength and he has no chakra. lets not take this thread to another side. my point is itachi can beat a high tier like hashirama who beat madara before and after resurrection, then there isn't a problem with luffy loosing[ WHICH HE ABSOLUTELY WINS]
@rikuyamaha: he wins momoshiki, due to raw strength and he has no chakra.
that helps him from getting lava blasted, charka rodded, beat down how? and lmao at luffy having more raw strength then momo
lets not take this thread to another side.
then why bring it up?
my point is itachi can beat a high tier like hashirama who beat madara before and after resurrection, then there isn't a problem with luffy loosing[ WHICH HE ABSOLUTELY WINS]
luffy wins against madara? or hashirama? funny, i'll laugh with you on this
@rikuyamaha: he wins momoshiki, due to raw strength and he has no chakra.
that helps him from getting lava blasted, charka rodded, beat down how? and lmao at luffy having more raw strength then momo
lets not take this thread to another side.
then why bring it up?
my point is itachi can beat a high tier like hashirama who beat madara before and after resurrection, then there isn't a problem with luffy loosing[ WHICH HE ABSOLUTELY WINS]
luffy wins against madara? or hashirama? funny, i'll laugh with you on this
Luffy gets slaughtered by Nagato alone, Prime Itachi alone, A alone, Muu alone, Genjutsu Hozuki alone, the only person that Luffy might one shot is Rasa.
Ah the bliss of coming back to CV after a hectic few days.
Luffy ragdolls and beats the shit out of everyone here as usual.
CoO actually has thought reading feats (read the last few chapters of Dressrosa) so genjutsu is extremely unlikely. And I am not sure Itachi can genjutsu someone who can move massively FTE to him and goes straight for the blitz.
Nagato's ST is way, way too weak to overpower someone of Luffy's strength, unless he is going for the absolute strongest, Konoha levelling one, which will nearly drain him of chakra and leave him with a 5 second cooldown, and not put Luffy down anyway due to his blunt force immunity. Using a CT is again a lot more dangerous to the team than Luffy since unlike him, none of them (besides maybe 3rd Raikage) are physically strong and durable enough to survive a CT. One Elephant Gun casually overpowers a standard ST and flattens Nagato.
None of the other Kages are durable enough to tank even a single hit or even react to him, or do anything to him besides maybe getting off a lucky Particle style which is extremely unlikely to land anyway due to Luffy's Future Sight and Speed and will be more of a threat to the team than anything.
Add the new Advanced Armament and all of them get irrefutably one shot.
Barring the small number of times where he might get caught in a genjutsu or a particle style, Luffy easily low diffs this team. His stats and hax are simply on a different level to Naruto Kage tiers.
literally all this.
I have no idea where all this "prime/healthy nagato/itachi solo" nonsense is coming from. They both had subpar feats and people twisting some feats like nagato "blitzing" bee, even tho bee had jest gotten sent flying by a massive attack at that moment.
Literally the only two options are genjutsu or a lucky hit with particle style.
Yeah Luffy oneshots all of them if basic knowledge means he knows Itachi puts people under illusions just by looking into his eyes I mean the most basic and simple counter anyone even with a glimpse of fighting experience would come to the conclusion of is to not look at his eyes or even better fight with their eyes closed if they're capable of such which Luffy has no qualms with
@sup3rn0va: Well what does it mean to you? I mean the fact that Itachi is someone who puts you under an illusion if you glance at his eyes is something just about any relevant ninja in the verse would know, given his reputation. And even if Luffy just goes for the blitz straight away (which btw is ic for him) then Itachi has no feats of casting genjutsu on characters whose movement he realistically wouldn't even perceive.
I think the best way to settle this is asking the op himself, @stealthgrey does basic knowledge here means Luffy knows Itachi casts illusions through sight?
Personally I don't think Basic Knowledge would give you somewhat detailed info on another characters abilities, nor their mind set, like even if Luffy knows Itachi causes illusions, that doesn't mean Luffy is going to decide to blitz him.
I mean the fact that Itachi is someone who puts you under an illusion if you glance at his eyes is something just about any relevant ninja in the verse would know, given his reputation. And even if Luffy just goes for the blitz straight away (which btw is ic for him)
How is a blitz in character for a morals on Luffy? He's more likely to start a conversation than he is to insta blitz.
then Itachi has no feats of casting genjutsu on characters whose movement he realistically wouldn't even perceive.
How fast is Luffy's movement speed? Is it faster than Itachi's perception? Doubtful. And even if it was, Luffy jumping all over the battlefield like a madman is never happening.
I think the best way to settle this is asking the op himself, @stealthgrey does basic knowledge here means Luffy knows Itachi casts illusions through sight?
Personally I don't think Basic Knowledge would give you someone detailed info on another characters abilities, nor their mind set, like even if Luffy knows Itachi causes illusions, that doesn't mean Luffy is going to decide to blitz him.
No, but he can decide to fight entirely with his eyes closed. Like that's the simplest and most basic strategy anyone can utilize against Itachi if they have even the slightest knowledge on visual genjutsu.
How is a blitz in character for a morals on Luffy? He's more likely to start a conversation than he is to insta blitz.
Nah he isn't Naruto. If he is serious about beating them, he will always start with a blitz, that's what he has done practically every serious fight from the outset.
How fast is Luffy's movement speed? Is it faster than Itachi's perception? Doubtful. And even if it was, Luffy jumping all over the battlefield like a madman is never happening.
How fast do you think Itachi's perception is then? And Luffy starting with a Gatling like attack is also very ic for him, especially against so many opponents here.
Personally I don't think Basic Knowledge would give you someone detailed info on another characters abilities, nor their mind set, like even if Luffy knows Itachi causes illusions, that doesn't mean Luffy is going to decide to blitz him.
No, but he can decide to fight entirely with his eyes closed. Like that's the simplest and most basic strategy anyone can utilize against Itachi if they have even the slightest knowledge on visual genjutsu.
Assuming he did do that, Itachi can use Genjutsu by pointing at someone. And Luffy's skill in CoO isn't exactly Fujitora tier (Minus future sight), so him closing his eyes the entire fight would definitely impair him in some way.
How is a blitz in character for a morals on Luffy? He's more likely to start a conversation than he is to insta blitz.
Nah he isn't Naruto. If he is serious about beating them, he will always start with a blitz, that's what he has done practically every serious fight from the outset.
And why would he be serious here? It says he's in character with morals on, he isn't fighting Akainu or Doffy or somebody whom he has a history with.
How fast is Luffy's movement speed? Is it faster than Itachi's perception? Doubtful. And even if it was, Luffy jumping all over the battlefield like a madman is never happening.
How fast do you think Itachi's perception is then?
Combined with the Sharingan fast enough to track Luffy's movements, though I'm not saying Itachi is as fast, not even close tbh. But Luffy's movement speed isn't really close to his combat speed.
Assuming he did do that, Itachi can use Genjutsu by pointing at someone. And Luffy's skill in CoO isn't exactly Fujitora tier (Minus future sight), so him closing his eyes the entire fight would definitely impair him in some way.
If you mean the little finger thing, the victim still has to look at his finger to get caught in the genjutsu. Just closing your eyes is for the most part, a perfect defense against visual genjutsu, including Itachi, except special cases like Izanami. We saw this in the EMS Sasuke and Itachi vs SM Kabuto fight where Kabuto simply closing his eyes made him immune to everything bar Izanami.
Regarding the proficiency thing, he was dodging Katakuri's punches with his eyes closed so he isn't bad. Regardless he doesn't need a lot here, he can literally stand in his place, and spam an Elephant Gatling at them which would already take care of almost everybody.
And why would he be serious here? It says he's in character with morals on, this isn't Akainu or Doffy or somebody whom he has a history with.
I assume he at least knows he is in a serious fight (not necessarily bloodlusted or anything) and he also has an idea of how strong they are in general by basic knowledge. Same goes for the team too, otherwise there's also no reason even Itachi would suddenly genjutsu some random kid or Nagato suddenly conjures up a CT lol.
Combined with the Sharingan fast enough to track Luffy's movements, though I'm not saying Itachi is as fast, not even close tbh. But Luffy's movement speed isn't really close to his combat speed.
What feats of tracking fast characters does Itachi's sharingan have though? MS Sasuke who should be on par with Itachi failed to track Ay's movements and Luffy dwarfs him in speed. And as I said, he is almost certainly gonna start with a gatling type attack seeing as there are so many opponents here, so the combat and movement speed difference hardly matters.
Assuming he did do that, Itachi can use Genjutsu by pointing at someone. And Luffy's skill in CoO isn't exactly Fujitora tier (Minus future sight), so him closing his eyes the entire fight would definitely impair him in some way.
If you mean the little finger thing, the victim still has to look at his finger to get caught in the genjutsu.
I don't remember this, I just remember Itachi pointing at Naruto and the latter getting caught in a Genjutsu. Can you show me a statement saying it requires the target to look at the finger?
Just closing your eyes is for the most part, a perfect defense against visual genjutsu, including Itachi, except special cases like Izanami.
Regarding the proficiency thing, he was dodging Katakuri's punches with his eyes closed so he isn't bad.
I'm not saying he's bad at it but I'm having a hard time seeing him accurately gauging attacks and positions from 6 quite fast opponents with CoO alone. I mean, sure Luffy is faster than them but they're not exactly random fodder.
Regardless he doesn't need a lot here, he can literally stand in his place, and spam an Elephant Gatling at them which would already take care of almost everybody.
Agreed, but I'd still say it's more in character for Itachi to use Genjutsu before Luffy decides to bring out G3, I mean Itachi has literally used Genjutsu early in almost all his appearances in the Manga.
And why would he be serious here? It says he's in character with morals on, this isn't Akainu or Doffy or somebody whom he has a history with.
I assume he at least knows he is in a serious fight (not necessarily bloodlusted or anything) and he also has an idea of how strong they are in general by basic knowledge. Same goes for the team too, otherwise there's also no reason even Itachi would suddenly genjutsu some random kid or Nagato suddenly conjures up a CT lol.
I'm not saying Nagato would use CT, that's more of a thing he uses long into a battle, however Itachi frequently starts a fight with Genjutsu, and even though they're in character I'm still assuming they're aware they're in a fight.
Combined with the Sharingan fast enough to track Luffy's movements, though I'm not saying Itachi is as fast, not even close tbh. But Luffy's movement speed isn't really close to his combat speed.
What feats of tracking fast characters does Itachi's sharingan have though?
I'm mostly basing it off of how Sasuke was tracking Naruto's movements at VoTE, and one of the Sharingans main abilities is predicting movements.
MS Sasuke who should be on par with Itachi failed to track Ay's movements and Luffy dwarfs him in speed.
Are you referring to this?
Because Sasuke was still able to track his movements with his Sharingan, it's just that his body wasn't fast enough to keep up, which is irrelevant for Itachi's Genjutsu since it's not a bodily movement
And as I said, he is almost certainly gonna start with a gatling type attack seeing as there are so many opponents here, so the combat and movement speed difference hardly matters.
They start 30 meters apart, and it's more in character for Itachi to start with Genjutsu than it is for Luffy to start with a Gatling.
@sup3rn0va: It's pretty much implied when Naruto analyzes why he got caught and he thinks of the moment where he directly looked at Itachi's pointed finger, as the exact moment where he got caught. Further backed later by Kabuto being completely immune to both Sasuke and Itachi's genjutsu by merely closing his eyes.
@shirso: Alright, so essentially this argument hinges on whether or not Basic Knowledge would tell Luffy enough about Itachi to make the decision to keep his eyes closed the entire fight.
@sup3rn0va: Basically, though CoO has also shown thought reading capabilities (albeit in the hands of Fujitora) so I still think it's quite unlikely that genjutsu would actually work in this scenario. It hasn't really been tested against opponents much faster than the caster who can also one shot.
And he really doesn't have to fight blind the entire time, just go for Itachi right away, which is plausible with basic knowledge.
@sup3rn0va: Basically, though CoO has also shown thought reading capabilities (albeit in the hands of Fujitora) so I still think it's quite unlikely that genjutsu would actually work in this scenario.
iirc it wasn't really thought reading, more so emotion reading.
It hasn't really been tested against opponents much faster than the caster who can also one shot.
@sup3rn0va: Emotion sensing is one aspect, but that's not what it's limited to, Issho was outright sensing the actual thoughts of Dressrosa citizens, like them knowing that Rebecca is safe, or Kyros went to live in the country side years back, etc. We even outright see Fujitora reading the thought bubbles.
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