EDIT: On second thought if Slim takes off that visor in the second round and it's going to get tougher for T'Challa and Ororo. Still thinking they win.
Team 2, Emma is practically useless against Storm and BP in her Diamond Form since she cant mind rape so TP is pretty useless. and im sure storm can strike just as quickly with a flash freeze, wind gust or a KO lightning before Cykes has a chance to remove his visor-
" @umbrasaevio: you're supposed to bump an old one so you dont make a dupe thread. "
it's not a dupe thread. This thread has stipulations on the match. If you are not going to contribute to the conversation and have nothing better to do than to stalk the forums for "dupe threads" than please move on.
First Battle: Emma Frost is basically useless without her TP, so Team 1 takes it. Second Battle: No restrictions means Emma Frost may solo if she can telepathically take Storm out first. Without Storm, Black Panther falls.
" @umbrasaevio: you're supposed to bump an old one so you dont make a dupe thread. "
it's not a dupe thread. This thread has stipulations on the match. If you are not going to contribute to the conversation and have nothing better to do than to stalk the forums for "dupe threads" than please move on.
"
Apologies. I didn't see that you didn't post the previous comment.
Well since if we are going by current standards, then we all should know that Black Panther does not have a vibrainium suit anymore cause of the events of Doomwar. so im seeing emma going diamond form and punching black panther out in the first round. Cyclops who knows storms powers by now would have already formulated a plan to take her down in case she would have ever turned on the x-men. cause lets face it people. Scott has to be prepared now with so very few mutants left. i mean he even had a plan to take down wolverine. plus scott has a better chance since he did lose leader ship to storm once, so he knows her moves. narrow concussive beam right between the eyes.
2nd round emma just makes them forget who they are.
@Trodorne: It's not going to be THAT easy for Emma to make them forget who they are, granted Cyclops could be distracting one or the other im pretty sure T'challa has already created technology needed for fighting telepaths and Storm already has supreme resistance
I' m guessing people forgot that Storm is highly resistant to telepaths? Even if Storm can't take them out with an instant lightning bolt she should still be able to use her lightning to defend herself from Cyclops's optic beams. Storm finds a metal pole for Emma and then this should be a win for the King and Queen of Wakanda.
" Well since if we are going by current standards, then we all should know that Black Panther does not have a vibrainium suit anymore cause of the events of Doomwar. so im seeing emma going diamond form and punching black panther out in the first round. Cyclops who knows storms powers by now would have already formulated a plan to take her down in case she would have ever turned on the x-men. cause lets face it people. Scott has to be prepared now with so very few mutants left. i mean he even had a plan to take down wolverine. plus scott has a better chance since he did lose leader ship to storm once, so he knows her moves. narrow concussive beam right between the eyes. 2nd round emma just makes them forget who they are. "
He does have a forcefield generator now after they neutered him. Wouldn't be that easy to punch him out as you think. I have trouble seeing that happening. She has to get through mental defenses whereas Storm does not. A thought later and the happy couple is electrocuted before she can get through.
" It's also worth noting that Storm has intimate knowledge of how Cyclops' powers work. "
Cyclops has intimate knowledge of how Storm's powers work, as well. "
Can he use that to his advantage? You know other then figuring out he's about to get ended? "
He used it before - once to blast her before she could attack, and another time to take advantage of a hesitation on her part which affect her aim.
I think Storm has versatility on her side, but Scott's strength is the relative straightforward nature of his powers (ie while she's throwing thunderbolts, creating whirlwinds and etc he could just click his visor-opening button and one-shot her). I think it is quite close between the two of them if they really fought without mental manipulation interfering with their capabilities, which is why it's hard to call this fight.
I do think Emma could take out Black Panther if she was matched against him, though.
" @PhoenixoftheTides: Storm has been able to counter his optic blast with both wind and lightning... "
That's why I think they are evenly matched. Each time they fought, there was always some mental manipulation at work which prevented them from fighting at their full capacity, whether it be The Shadow King, Madelyne Pryor/The Goblin Queen or Mastermind - I think they are much more evenly matched than they are often given credit for. In terms of leadership, they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but in this type of fight, I think it comes down to who gets the first shot. If Storm goes for Emma, and let's T'Challa handle Scott, I think Scott can KO T'Challa with one blast if necessary, while Emma has the power to stand her ground with Storm for a while. If Emma and Scott focused on Storm, and she had to fight the two of them, she'd be in serious trouble. Emma would resort to psychic blasts, which have full effect on Storm despite her willpower and ability to resist mindreading, and Scott's direct power could tag Storm while she was trying to take one of them down.
" It's also worth noting that Storm has intimate knowledge of how Cyclops' powers work. "
Cyclops has intimate knowledge of how Storm's powers work, as well. "
Can he use that to his advantage? You know other then figuring out he's about to get ended? "
He used it before - once to blast her before she could attack, and another time to take advantage of a hesitation on her part which affect her aim.
I think Storm has versatility on her side, but Scott's strength is the relative straightforward nature of his powers (ie while she's throwing thunderbolts, creating whirlwinds and etc he could just click his visor-opening button and one-shot her). I think it is quite close between the two of them if they really fought without mental manipulation interfering with their capabilities, which is why it's hard to call this fight.
I do think Emma could take out Black Panther if she was matched against him, though.
"
I agree it could probably go either way with morals as far as Storm and Cyke are concerned. But Storm wouldn't hesitate with no morals. As stated above he'd be dead.
Heart shaped herb T'Challa with his vibranium equipment would destroy Emma. He is the dominant H2H combatant in this fight and his anti metal claws should rend diamond from Frost's body. I don't really like Frost, so I don't keep track of her showings, but how durable is her diamond form?
I don't remember a time when Storm was mind-warped by a telepath before (unless if I missed it or something).
Which also brings to mind...does Emma have any figthing prowess to her or does she just stand there and wave her finger and do stuff?
"
Storm had mental illusions placed in her mind by Mastermind, was controlled by the Shadow King and was effected by Madelyn Pryor. Emma was also able to telepathically torture her during the "Phoenix Saga" storyline when the X-Men were captured and when Jean had to come in and rescue her.
I don't think Emma has any fighting prowess; when she switches to diamond form, she moreso uses her increased strength in direct, non-technical applications (ie a punch or slap), so she tends to rely on her telepathy as her first line of offense.
" It's also worth noting that Storm has intimate knowledge of how Cyclops' powers work. "
Cyclops has intimate knowledge of how Storm's powers work, as well. "
Can he use that to his advantage? You know other then figuring out he's about to get ended? "
He used it before - once to blast her before she could attack, and another time to take advantage of a hesitation on her part which affect her aim.
I think Storm has versatility on her side, but Scott's strength is the relative straightforward nature of his powers (ie while she's throwing thunderbolts, creating whirlwinds and etc he could just click his visor-opening button and one-shot her). I think it is quite close between the two of them if they really fought without mental manipulation interfering with their capabilities, which is why it's hard to call this fight.
I do think Emma could take out Black Panther if she was matched against him, though.
"
I agree it could probably go either way with morals as far as Storm and Cyke are concerned. But Storm wouldn't hesitate with no morals. As stated above he'd be dead.Heart shaped herb T'Challa with his vibranium equipment would destroy Emma. He is the dominant H2H combatant in this fight and his anti metal claws should rend diamond from Frost's body. I don't really like Frost, so I don't keep track of her showings, but how durable is her diamond form? "
It's pretty durable, but I don't think it can withstand virbanium or adamantium for long. But if Emma were to unleash a telepathic assault against, T'Challa, I don't think he's getting up from it, and that would be her first line of defense.
" It's also worth noting that Storm has intimate knowledge of how Cyclops' powers work. "
Cyclops has intimate knowledge of how Storm's powers work, as well. "
Can he use that to his advantage? You know other then figuring out he's about to get ended? "
He used it before - once to blast her before she could attack, and another time to take advantage of a hesitation on her part which affect her aim.
I think Storm has versatility on her side, but Scott's strength is the relative straightforward nature of his powers (ie while she's throwing thunderbolts, creating whirlwinds and etc he could just click his visor-opening button and one-shot her). I think it is quite close between the two of them if they really fought without mental manipulation interfering with their capabilities, which is why it's hard to call this fight.
I do think Emma could take out Black Panther if she was matched against him, though.
"
I agree it could probably go either way with morals as far as Storm and Cyke are concerned. But Storm wouldn't hesitate with no morals. As stated above he'd be dead.Heart shaped herb T'Challa with his vibranium equipment would destroy Emma. He is the dominant H2H combatant in this fight and his anti metal claws should rend diamond from Frost's body. I don't really like Frost, so I don't keep track of her showings, but how durable is her diamond form? "
It's pretty durable, but I don't think it can withstand virbanium or adamantium for long. But if Emma were to unleash a telepathic assault against, T'Challa, I don't think he's getting up from it, and that would be her first line of defense. "
In H2H I'm taking BP all day. Thing is if she is fighting in her diamond form she is unable to use her telepathy. She reverts back to normal to mind wipe T'Challa she's vulnerable. I'm thinking T'Challa takes advantage and slits her throat. But like you said telepathy is Frost's weapon of choice and the diamond form is just a back up.
Morals on I think Scott and Emma are limited more so then T'Challa and Storm. That makes it an easier fight for them. I think with morals off however, it'll come down to who thinks faster. Frost or Storm. Like you said, morals off, Frost can mind rape T'Challa and Storm. But on the same token Storm could fry them both of them in a second. The reason why I'm going with royal family is that Emma has too first get through some mental defenses for her to take them down. Storm doesn't.
" It's also worth noting that Storm has intimate knowledge of how Cyclops' powers work. "
Cyclops has intimate knowledge of how Storm's powers work, as well. "
Can he use that to his advantage? You know other then figuring out he's about to get ended? "
He used it before - once to blast her before she could attack, and another time to take advantage of a hesitation on her part which affect her aim.
I think Storm has versatility on her side, but Scott's strength is the relative straightforward nature of his powers (ie while she's throwing thunderbolts, creating whirlwinds and etc he could just click his visor-opening button and one-shot her). I think it is quite close between the two of them if they really fought without mental manipulation interfering with their capabilities, which is why it's hard to call this fight.
I do think Emma could take out Black Panther if she was matched against him, though.
"
I agree it could probably go either way with morals as far as Storm and Cyke are concerned. But Storm wouldn't hesitate with no morals. As stated above he'd be dead.Heart shaped herb T'Challa with his vibranium equipment would destroy Emma. He is the dominant H2H combatant in this fight and his anti metal claws should rend diamond from Frost's body. I don't really like Frost, so I don't keep track of her showings, but how durable is her diamond form? "
It's pretty durable, but I don't think it can withstand virbanium or adamantium for long. But if Emma were to unleash a telepathic assault against, T'Challa, I don't think he's getting up from it, and that would be her first line of defense. "
In H2H I'm taking BP all day. Thing is if she is fighting in her diamond form she is unable to use her telepathy. She reverts back to normal to mind wipe T'Challa she's vulnerable. I'm thinking T'Challa takes advantage and slits her throat. But like you said telepathy is Frost's weapon of choice and the diamond form is just a back up.Morals on I think Scott and Emma are limited more so then T'Challa and Storm. That makes it an easier fight for them. I think with morals off however, it'll come down to who thinks faster. Frost or Storm. Like you said, morals off, Frost can mind rape T'Challa and Storm. But on the same token Storm could fry them both of them in a second. The reason why I'm going with royal family is that Emma has too first get through some mental defenses for her to take them down. Storm doesn't. "
The TC said no instant kill lightning strikes or mind rape; so Cyclops and Emma have a chance at retaliation. That's why I'm 50/50 LOL. I really think T'Challa is the weak link here - Emma or Scott can deal with him very easily. The problem is that Storm makes up for BP's limitations.
@PhoenixoftheTides: I'm on a 60/40 slide myself, haha. If T'Challa has the right equipment then he's a threat. I think if we clarified what equipment BP then the victor would be more clear cut. You're right though, Storm more then makes up for T'Challa short comings in this fight. You know on second thought, it's a toss up if this is just a random encounter. It'll be a different story with prep.
All of Storm's powers worked instantly...They don't take time to form..Just as she can create a quick lightning bolt, she can also flash freeze them, surround them in a tornado or any number of ways she can beat her....Storm is the most versatile person in this battle,she has many number of ways of taking both Scott and Emma...
Also the instances where she was affected by telepathy and taken out easily were past events...Her resistance to telepathy has become stronger now...Due to her will and the electric currents that run through her brain...Storm has already resisted and defeated Emma twice already...Emma psi bolts may affect Storm, however they won't take her down or prevent her from using her powers, as shown here....
All of Storm's powers worked instantly...They don't take time to form..Just as she can create a quick lightning bolt, she can also flash freeze them, surround them in a tornado or any number of ways she can beat her....Storm is the most versatile person in this battle,she has many number of ways of taking both Scott and Emma...
Also the instances where she was affected by telepathy and taken out easily were past events...Her resistance to telepathy has become stronger now...Due to her will and the electric currents that run through her brain...Storm has already resisted and defeated Emma twice already...Emma psi bolts may affect Storm, however they won't take her down or prevent her from using her powers, as shown here....
Gallery
"
Yep familiar with that fight. The problem is, Emma's psibolts work instantly, as well. If she hit Storm with one and stunned her, and then followed up with another and another, Storm would be unconscious before she could recover. The only reason Emma didn't do that in that particular fight was because she was falling and didn't have the moment needed to switch back to her flesh and blood form before Storm hit her with a thunderbolt. Which is why I think Storm would fight Cyclops, since each knows the other's capabilities, while Emma takes out Black Panther. And Storm's powers don't work instantly; the limiting factor is the environmental conditions she's in and what she's trying to do - making a storm from out of nowhere is more taxing for her than hurling thunder bolts from a preexisting rainstorm. Her psionic weather manipulation field certainly does work very quickly, though, as do most psionically-based energy manipulation powers, but we've seen her concentrate to change the weather for longer than a panel, and we need to consider the limitations of the medium. What takes place in a single panel might take a moment or two to actually happen which is why Emma can chat in complete sentences while falling.
" @PhoenixoftheTides: Storm has been able to counter his optic blast with both wind and lightning... "
That's why I think they are evenly matched. Each time they fought, there was always some mental manipulation at work which prevented them from fighting at their full capacity, whether it be The Shadow King, Madelyne Pryor/The Goblin Queen or Mastermind - I think they are much more evenly matched than they are often given credit for. In terms of leadership, they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but in this type of fight, I think it comes down to who gets the first shot. If Storm goes for Emma, and let's T'Challa handle Scott, I think Scott can KO T'Challa with one blast if necessary, while Emma has the power to stand her ground with Storm for a while. If Emma and Scott focused on Storm, and she had to fight the two of them, she'd be in serious trouble. Emma would resort to psychic blasts, which have full effect on Storm despite her willpower and ability to resist mindreading, and Scott's direct power could tag Storm while she was trying to take one of them down. "
Emma would have to stay in diamond or risk being taken out instantly by T'Challa or Storm. Cyclops is not evenly match with Storm anymore, she can block his optic beams with her lightning. Shadow King never directly mind controlled Cyclops, he found the doubts in his mind and maximize them to the forefront. This had nothing to do with his battle skills, since he was easily able to defeat the X-men single handed before Storm arrived. When Storm fought him the first time, she hesitated, so that doesn't count for Storm having trouble taking him out since she did just fine in Worlds Apart when she took him out with a lightning bolt.
All of Storm's powers worked instantly...They don't take time to form..Just as she can create a quick lightning bolt, she can also flash freeze them, surround them in a tornado or any number of ways she can beat her....Storm is the most versatile person in this battle,she has many number of ways of taking both Scott and Emma...
Also the instances where she was affected by telepathy and taken out easily were past events...Her resistance to telepathy has become stronger now...Due to her will and the electric currents that run through her brain...Storm has already resisted and defeated Emma twice already...Emma psi bolts may affect Storm, however they won't take her down or prevent her from using her powers, as shown here....
Gallery
"
Yep familiar with that fight. The problem is, Emma's psibolts work instantly, as well. If she hit Storm with one and stunned her, and then followed up with another and another, Storm would be unconscious before she could recover. The only reason Emma didn't do that in that particular fight was because she was falling and didn't have the moment needed to switch back to her flesh and blood form before Storm hit her with a thunderbolt. Which is why I think Storm would fight Cyclops, since each knows the other's capabilities, while Emma takes out Black Panther. And Storm's powers don't work instantly; the limiting factor is the environmental conditions she's in and what she's trying to do - making a storm from out of nowhere is more taxing for her than hurling thunder bolts from a preexisting rainstorm. Her psionic weather manipulation field certainly does work very quickly, though, as do most psionically-based energy manipulation powers, but we've seen her concentrate to change the weather for longer than a panel, and we need to consider the limitations of the medium. What takes place in a single panel might take a moment or two to actually happen which is why Emma can chat in complete sentences while falling. "
Storm says that once summoning this type of weather would have left her exhausted, but at this point in the story this is coming to her more easily than calmer, more controlled uses of her powers. Also, the words in the panel actually say that the deluge appears in the blink of an eye - as I said, very fast, but not quite instantaneously. And obviously, it took more than an instant for water to fill the room - probably took a few moments, which is why we see the X-men moving around during the downpour before Storm dispersed it when the rain water was ankle deep. To put it simply, Storm's power works fast, but the effect can take longer to fully materialize.
" @PhoenixoftheTides: Storm has been able to counter his optic blast with both wind and lightning... "
That's why I think they are evenly matched. Each time they fought, there was always some mental manipulation at work which prevented them from fighting at their full capacity, whether it be The Shadow King, Madelyne Pryor/The Goblin Queen or Mastermind - I think they are much more evenly matched than they are often given credit for. In terms of leadership, they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but in this type of fight, I think it comes down to who gets the first shot. If Storm goes for Emma, and let's T'Challa handle Scott, I think Scott can KO T'Challa with one blast if necessary, while Emma has the power to stand her ground with Storm for a while. If Emma and Scott focused on Storm, and she had to fight the two of them, she'd be in serious trouble. Emma would resort to psychic blasts, which have full effect on Storm despite her willpower and ability to resist mindreading, and Scott's direct power could tag Storm while she was trying to take one of them down. "
Emma would have to stay in diamond or risk being taken out instantly by T'Challa or Storm. Cyclops is not evenly match with Storm anymore, she can block his optic beams with her lightning. Shadow King never directly mind controlled Cyclops, he found the doubts in his mind and maximize them to the forefront. This had nothing to do with his battle skills, since he was easily able to defeat the X-men single handed before Storm arrived. When Storm fought him the first time, she hesitated, so that doesn't count for Storm having trouble taking him out since she did just fine in Worlds Apart when she took him out with a lightning bolt. "
If we deal with simple tactics, in the time it takes Storm to try to hit Emma with a thunderbolt, Cyclops can blast her out of the sky with a full powered optic blast, leaving Emma an easy opening to use her telepathy to mess with Black Panther's mind for a KO. Storm is formidable - I don't think anyone doubts that, but I don't think a strategist like Scott and a devious mastermind like Emma would get taken out that quickly; he'd come up with a plan, and she'd be able to patch their thoughts together to coordinate attacks. Storm and T'Challa don't have this advantage. Storm would need to make sure she doesn't hurt BP with an errant effect, which prevents T'Challa from closing the distance too quickly, while trying to take out two separate targets. Storm could block Cyclops' optic blast, but while she's doing that, nothing would stop Emma from psiblasting her. So I still say this is 50/50.
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