Count Dooku vs Mustafar Obi Wan

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deactivated-612156a4d7eca

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Mustafar Obi Wan

No Caption Provided

Darth Tyranus

  • Battle will begin on the landing platform where Obi Wan first encounters Lord Vader
  • Dooku is from ROTS and in kill mode
  • Obi Wan has the exact same fighting mindset he had with Vader

Round 1: Canon

Round 2: Legends

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deactivated-6098713be0993

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R1: Either way.

R2: Kenobi in an amazing fight.

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RedGuard1an

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Kenobi

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SheevSmacker

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Was thinking of making this lmao

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deactivated-61215780523f9

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Obi Wan has beaten Dooku in combat before, so a win from him is not impossible.

However, Dooku seems to have a special talent when it comes to beating Obi Wan, with him throwing or rag-dolling the Jedi while also fighting Anakin, or stalemating Obi Wan and Mace Windu at the same time.

Anakin/Vader scaling heavily implies Obi Wan would win, but his poor track record of losing against Dooku while being helped is hard to ignore.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#7  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

There is no "Mustafar Obi-Wan" except in the old legends continuity EU. The same continuity where Obi-Wan actually outclassed Dooku in their RoTS duel. Everywhere else, it's headcanon devised by fans to excuse Vader at his absolute strongest being portrayed as Obi-Wan level, despite the latter being trounced by Dooku and hardpressed by Grievous.

Dooku already thrashed Obi-Wan aboard the Invisible Hand, even when the latter had Anakin for back. Having experienced absolutely zero growth in the days since that encounter, nothing changes.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Obi Wan has beaten Dooku in combat before,

Hmmm? You don't happen to be referring to that non-canon -- even for its time -- cut-scene from the old TCW game that Erkan enjoys posting, are you?

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frozen

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#9 frozen  Moderator

Dooku both rounds.

He wins the canon round a lot easier. The Legends one is more difficult given that there is evidence for Kenobi getting stronger over the course of the film, but Dooku is simply too intelligent and knows Kenobi's style inside out.

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Windshieldwiper

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@breakofdawn said:

R1: Either way.

R2: Kenobi in an amazing fight.

Assuming ofc Kenobi gets the high ground at one point

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Bossman12345

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Bruh Dooku claps both rounds

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deactivated-61215780523f9

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@kirkseven said:

Obi Wan has beaten Dooku in combat before,

Hmmm? You don't happen to be referring to that non-canon -- even for its time -- cut-scene from the old TCW game that Erkan enjoys posting, are you?

That's exactly the one!

I've seen it posted on my discord server, but I don't think Erkan is on it...

In all fairness I also used the game feat of Dooku stalemating Obi & Mace against him (Kenobi) in my reply as well.

What made it non canon even for its time?

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deactivated-6098713be0993

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@kirkseven: The event in question didn't happen in continuity. Dooku wasn't even in the system during the attack on the Malevolence.

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deactivated-6098713be0993

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To elaborate: Kenobi from the Invisible Hand and Utapau! or Mustafar!Kenobi are different beings. IH Obi-Wan still attempted to utilise Ataru in his hybrid form, which is part of how Dooku pierced his defences by staggering him:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

After this, Kenobi is given a pep talk by Mace, who helps him to unlock his full prowess as a swordsman, and it's this that allows him to defeat Grievous:

Mace Windu had almost smiled. "I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light. Master Yoda's Ataru is also an answer to weakness: the limitations of reach and mobility imposed by his stature and his age. But for you? What weakness does Soresu answer?"

Blinking, Obi-Wan had been forced to admit he'd never actually thought of it that way.

"That is so like you, Master Kenobi," the Korun Master had said, shaking his head. "I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form—or the master of the classic form?"

"I'm very flattered that you would consider me a master, but really—"

"Not a master. The master," Mace had said. "Be who you are, and Grievous will never defeat you."

So now, facing the tornado of annihilating energy that is Grievous's attack, Obi-Wan simply is who he is

-

No Caption Provided

Kenobi learns to "let go" and simply embrace his nature as a defensive warrior, allowing him to not only block every strike by Grievous, but also slice off his arms. He repeats this against Anakin, and it's this ability - as well as his unrestrained power in the Force and the duo's familiarity with each other's duelling abilities - that lets him compensate for MFV's reckless attacks and blasts of Force power.

This Kenobi is significantly better than IH Kenobi, who is still prone to making mistakes and does not embrace "who [he] is".

It's a tough fight, one for the ages, but Kenobi eventually outlasts him in Legends. Dooku will not be able to break his defences, either in sabers or with the Force.

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El_mago

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R1: Kenobi Solidly

R2: Dooku Wins after a amazing fight

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SheevSmacker

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@el_mago said:

R1: Kenobi Solidly

R2: Dooku Wins after a amazing fight

How is Kenobi losing in Legends if he's winning in Canon

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SheevSmacker

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Kenobi beat him

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deactivated-61215780523f9

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@kirkseven: The event in question didn't happen in continuity. Dooku wasn't even in the system during the attack on the Malevolence.

Ah okay, its a pretty big anti feat for Obi Wan's intellect too given that he left like 4 clones to 'gaurd' Dooku while Obi Wan left them alone.

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SheevSmacker

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@el_mago said:
@sheevsmacker said:
@el_mago said:

R1: Kenobi Solidly

R2: Dooku Wins after a amazing fight

How is Kenobi losing in Legends if he's winning in Canon

different rankings and power levels both continuities doesnt correlate between each other

Legend Kenobi better than Canon Kenobi when comparisoning to the respective Dooku of they I think

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El_mago

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@sheevsmacker: almost all legends characters are better than their canon counterparts

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SheevSmacker

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@el_mago said:

@sheevsmacker: almost all legends characters are better than their canon counterparts

Yes but I mean that Legend Kenobi prefom better against a Legend Dooku than the Canon Kenob is performing against the Canon Dooku

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macattack1

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Dooku both rounds. There isn’t really a relevant difference between Kenobi here and on invisible hand. Kinda a pointless debate in my opinion, it goes the same way as before

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frozen

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#24 frozen  Moderator

@el_mago said:

R1: Kenobi Solidly

R2: Dooku Wins after a amazing fight

If anything, Dooku has a better claim in canon than in Legends. He just straight up beat him in canon.

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El_mago

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@sheevsmacker: if Kenobi face a MFV who was giving his all sure as hell he surpassed the count not to mention the direct inferior of obi wan this being quinlan vos already beat him

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frozen

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#26 frozen  Moderator

@el_mago said:

@sheevsmacker: if Kenobi face a MFV who was giving his all sure as hell he surpassed the count not to mention the direct inferior of obi wan this being quinlan vos already beat him

Vos showing is hightely contextual. Its said he only won due to a stylistic advantage.

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El_mago

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#27  Edited By El_mago

@frozen: even if it was for a unpredictable style for fightning i see MFK to perform realistically better than that

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@frozen said:
@el_mago said:

@sheevsmacker: if Kenobi face a MFV who was giving his all sure as hell he surpassed the count not to mention the direct inferior of obi wan this being quinlan vos already beat him

Vos showing is hightely contextual. Its said he only won due to a stylistic advantage.

Dooku wasn't fighting that seriously while Vos was.

The book even implied that the occurrence was out of the ordinary and not more akin to a special opportunity rather than a normal outcome.

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Laurus

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Kenobi both rounds, most likely.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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Kenobi gets rag dolled both rounds

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GangOrca

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Probably Dooku for both rounds.

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deactivated-60ad9ed238b0d

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Dooku.

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SonOfDarkness

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I think Obi Wan could win a sabers only battle but he’d still lose an all out fight.

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darthguile

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@kirkseven: Well put man. Does 8/10 in favor of dooku seem reasonable to you?

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darthguile

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@sonofdarkness: I think kenobi would have a better chance (still only like 8/10 in dooku's favor) in an all out fight rather than just sabers. Dooku was known to be a master of form 2 makashi and one of the best duelists in the jedi order. In a sabers only confrontation, I think kenobi would be able to keep dooku at bay using form 3 soresu for a time but would eventually succumb as he is outclassed.

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AnakinVader99

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There is no "Mustafar Obi-Wan" except in the old legends continuity EU. The same continuity where Obi-Wan actually outclassed Dooku in their RoTS duel. Everywhere else, it's headcanon devised by fans to excuse Vader at his absolute strongest being portrayed as Obi-Wan level, despite the latter being trounced by Dooku and hardpressed by Grievous.

EXCUSE? Literally LEGENDS CONFIRMED Vader was weaker by all sense of the word. Mentally and physically nothing proves otherwise infact I am willing to argue even IH Anakin could beat Musatafar Vader

Dooku already thrashed Obi-Wan aboard the Invisible Hand, even when the latter had Anakin for back. Having experienced absolutely zero growth in the days since that encounter, nothing changes.

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mDemocracy

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Dooku

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@kirkseven: Well put man. Does 8/10 in favor of dooku seem reasonable to you?

Doesn't sound unreasonable, but the first part of my comment used a non canon cut scene that favored Obi Wan more than I should have.

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Sofia_16

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Dooku

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Anyone who thinks Dooku wins willing to put forth their reasoning? I'm curious how he can breach Kenobi's saber defences or do to him in the Force what even Mustafar Vader, who even whilst hindered was significantly stronger than Dooku, could not.

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darthguile

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@deactivated-6098713be0993: I wouldn't say obi wan defeated anakin on mustafar due to superior saber skill or force talent. Obi wan knew most of anakin's moves from fighting beside him for over 6 years and exploited anakin's overconfidence as he did with maul. Dooku was known to be a master of form 2 makashi and one of the best duelists in the jedi order. I think kenobi would be able to keep dooku at bay using form 3 soresu for a time but would eventually succumb as he is outclassed. Nothing will have changed since his confrontation with dooku on the invisible hand.

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darthguile

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ProfessorNobody

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bump

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Theashensecond

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#45  Edited By Theashensecond

There's no such thing as "Mustafar Obi Wan". Just a coping mechanism made by the Anakin brigade after him being hindered on Mustafar is debunked by 2 sources.

OT: Already happened. Dooku wins.

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the_wspanialy

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#48  Edited By the_wspanialy

Dooku beats Kenobi, as always.

Even if we go with the "Obi-Wan's impenetrable guard" NFL (despite the fact it has been penetrated numerous times by physical strikes), Dooku isn't an idiot. He's not going to keep trying to penetrate Obi-Wan's guard and exhaust himself in the process. He'll either disrupt Obi-Wan's guard with the Force, or goad him into committing to offense and cleanly dismantle him.

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deactivated-62726473530c3

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Kenobi is at least equally powerful, but he has no way of either tiring the Count out or outright overpowering him. On the other hand, Dooku is never getting past his guard if Obi plays defense. Stalemate unless one of them makes a mistake.

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Greysentinel365

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Kenobi both rounds in marathons.