Count Dooku vs. Kyle Katarn/Plo Koon

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#1 Edited by GeorgeWBush (12637 posts) - - Show Bio

*All fighters are bloodlusted/morals off

*Battle one takes place in the Valley of the Jedi

*Battle two takes place on flat/neutral terrain on Planet Earth

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vs.

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and

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#3 Posted by Mije_101 (1549 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool fight. I'm siding the team for a majority, I feel like Katarn alone could push Dooku pretty hard, though he would lose in the end. With Plo there, they should win this more often than not.

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#4 Edited by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio

Siding with Dooku, he has plenty of experience fighting duos and these two are lacking in synergy, which is liable to make things awkward for them, which Dooku is more than smart enough to capitalize on. If he can separate one from the other through a martial strike/lightning burst then he can take a majority, and I can actually see him killing Kyle in a dueling scenario.

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#5 Posted by okayalright_44 (1524 posts) - - Show Bio

Siding with Dooku, he has plenty of experience fighting duos and these two are lacking in synergy, which is liable to make things awkward for them, which Dooku is more than smart enough to capitalize on. If he can separate one from the other through a martial strike/lightning burst then he can take a majority, and I can actually see him killing Kyle in a dueling scenario.

agreed

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#6 Edited by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by okayalright_44 (1524 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Edited by okayalright_44 (1524 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by Jacthripper (15017 posts) - - Show Bio

While Team 2 May have the number advantage, they're just both outclassed, I see this going similarly to Kyles fight with Caedus, even with numbers, they're still outmatched in both aspects, leading to their downfall.

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#11 Posted by Darth_Necray (509 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku. Team has no synergy and while the have the ability to take him they lack the methods to do it.

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#12 Posted by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio

Hold the phone, I was mentioned first in the call outs???? This day will be a day long remembered. *sheds a happy tear*

But I agree with ILS. Dooku has taken on Anakin and Obi Wan and as a team(and individually), they are better than Kyle and Plo. Even though the first fight takes place at the Valley of the Jedi, I would still give Dooku the edge because of his experience fighting duos and the fact that it took an amped Anakin to defeat him. Amped Anakin > amped Kyle, and that's if Kyle gets the amp, because I can't remember if that was a one time amp or not.

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#13 Posted by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: Kyle had an amp at the Valley of the Jedi? Isn't that where he fought Jerec and his six henchmen? Were they amped as well?

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#14 Edited by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: See now I can't even remember if he was actually amped or not -.- but I'm almost positive Jerec was amped. (Don't quote me. Lol). As for his henchmen, the more I think about it, the more I can't remember if they and Kyle were amped as well...

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#15 Edited by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: From what I could gather from the Encyclopedia, it was a very potent focal point for Force power but it hadn't been released yet, which is what they were fighting over? *shrugs*

Seems like the context behind the duels at the Valley of the Jedi has been pretty withheld so far in debates related to Kyle for his benefit, like for instance, I was under the impression for months that Kyle had dueled all seven of the Dark Jedi simultaneously, until I found out for myself that he fought them one by one. It's a good endurance feat, but people saying that he "defeated seven Dark Jedi all at once with minimal training" is just completely false, and if he was amped at the time that makes it even worse.

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#16 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44358 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: From what I could gather from the Encyclopedia, it was a very potent focal point for Force power but it hadn't been released yet, which is what they were fighting over? *shrugs*

Seems like the context behind the duels at the Valley of the Jedi has been pretty withheld so far in debates related to Kyle for his benefit, like for instance, I was under the assumption for months that Kyle had dueled all seven of the Dark Jedi simultaneously, until I found out for myself that he fought them one by one. It's a good endurance feat, but people saying that he "defeated seven Dark Jedi all at once with minimal training" is just completely false, and if he was amped at the time that makes it even worse.

LAL.

When did someone ever claim that?

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#17 Edited by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: People have literally just been saying for months that Kyle "defeated seven Dark Jedi with minimal training", and in a recent debate with Nova I compared Tholme fighting several Force sensitives simultaneously to Kyle's feat under the pretense that he had also fought them simultaneously, yet, no correction was made. If I really wanted to I could go digging through threads to find where I got this impression from? Because nobody has ever made mention of the fact this was a gauntlet instead of a group fight.

And to that end, Kyle fighting nigh-featless saber duelists in 1v1 fights doesn't put him close to the level of dueling skill people have been pushing him to. Fighting Vong warriors, perhaps, but that feat has been overblown recently.

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#18 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44358 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: People have literally just been saying for months that Kyle "defeated seven Dark Jedi with minimal training", and in a recent debate with Nova I compared Tholme fighting several Force sensitives simultaneously to Kyle's feat under the pretense that he had also fought them simultaneously, yet, no correction was made. If I really wanted to I could go digging through threads to find where I got this impression from? Because nobody has ever made mention of the fact this was a gauntlet instead of a group fight.

And to that end, Kyle fighting nigh-featless saber duelists in 1v1 fights doesn't put him close to the level of dueling skill people have been pushing him to. Fighting Vong warriors, perhaps, but that feat has been overblown recently.

When I said he defeated 7 Dark Jedi with minimal training, I meant one at a time----not altogether. If they were together, I would have said simultaneously.

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#19 Edited by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: If you meant one at a time why not say one at a time? If I said Darth Maul killed forty Black Sun gunmen you're more than able to assume I meant at the same time. People saying that Kyle "defeated 7 Dark Jedi", "beat a host of Dark Jedi", "beat a myriad of Dark Jedi" ect, all points towards him fighting just that - seven Dark Jedi. Not an individual, a group of 7. Even if it wasn't anyones intention to make it sound like he fought a group, it's still overhyping the feat to point out that he fought seven of them without clarifying that these were 1v1 fights.

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#20 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44358 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

If you meant one at a time why not say one at a time?

Why should I? As I said before, I would have said simultaneously.

If I said Darth Maul killed forty Black Sun gunmen you're more than able to assume I meant a the same time.

Not really the same thing, seeing as how Black Sun gunmen aren't really impressive anyway.

People saying that Kyle "defeated 7 Dark Jedi", "beat a host of Dark Jedi", "beat a myriad of Dark Jedi" ect, all points towards him fighting just that - seven Dark Jedi. Not an individual, a group of 7.

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

If they were together, I would have said simultaneously.

Even if it wasn't anyones intention to make it sound like he fought a group, it's still overhyping the feat to point out that he fought seven of them without clarifying that these were 1v1 fights.

Ehh. I thought something like that would have been common knowledge.

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#21 Posted by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

Ehh. I thought something like that would have been common knowledge.

This is probably where the problem lies, lol.

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#22 Posted by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: According to The New Essential Guide To Characters, he had opened the power source, if that makes sense, but Kyle defeated him before he could access it.

Meanwhile, Jerec cracked open the unfathomable power of the Valley of the Jedi, only to have Kyle Katarn prevent him from successfully tapping into the Valley's central Force stream.

Credit: The New Essential Guide to Characters

So there we go. Lol. In this context, it seems Jerec wasn't in fact amped. At least that clears up one thing. But I have never heard that Kyle defeated all seven of the Dark Jedi simultaneously. LOL. I guess it all depends on where you hear the statement from. Obviously if someone words it in a specific way, like saying "fought them at the same time," then others are going to get that impression as well. That's the case for a lot of feats.

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#23 Edited by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

I took "Kyle defeated seven Dark Jedi" as it is, that he defeated seven of them, the say way I would take "Obi-Wan Kenobi deflected three blaster bolts" or "Grievous fought five Jedi". A more appropriate way to word it IMO would be that he fought a gauntlet of Dark Jedi, or just saying that he defeated ___, and ___, and ___ ect. I dunno LOL I guess it doesn't matter now.

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#24 Edited by Penderor (5561 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku for sure. Obi+Ani combo was unable to beat him in TCW and had a big trouble against him in ROTS. Kenobi can arguably beat for majority either Koon and Katarn in 1v1, and yet he is somewhere between easy and medium difficulty for Dooku to handle.

Edit: I just noticed, that one from the battles takes place in the VotJ. That could give team few wins , but I doubt they win majority.

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#25 Posted by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: No problem man.

And yeah I agree. It justs seems that most people are too lazy to write it or word it that way. They take the "quick and easy path." - in Yoda's voice. Lol

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#26 Posted by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: Lying motherf*cker, you are. Hehehehehe!

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#27 Posted by Wolfrazer (16566 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: But then...if Kyle took all 7 on with minimal training, then that just means those 7 really, really sucked **** if they couldn't beat a guy with minimal Jedi training. So...then that feat, wouldn't really be viewed as something good...I mean taking on multiple guys? Sure...but skilled guys? Not really.

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#28 Posted by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer: Depends on how you view it. It's either a feat for Kyle in terms of a natural skill or a showcase of how poor those Dark Jedi were. Maybe a bit of both.

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#29 Posted by Wolfrazer (16566 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by TheVivas (19704 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Edited by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: LOL. Sorry for the ambiguity, I thought it was already known. It was all one-on-one, individually taking the Seven down. If it was all at once he'd easily outclass the characters that he usually gets pitted against on the forums.

Why would Kyle and Plo fighting together be awkward, though?

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#32 Posted by i_like_swords (26351 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: They don't know each other or any of their typical techniques or strategies. Usually when characters have a lack of synergy they split off and fight individual targets, but if two characters who know nothing about how the other fights, take on a single target, they're liable to do things like walk into each other, say if they both want to circle Dooku in opposite directions. Or one of them could plan for a specific strike and the other would but in in such a way to make that strike impossible. Even if they weren't quite hindering each other, I still think Dooku can take them apart technically.

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#33 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: I doubt they would hinder each other. They're relatively adaptable fighters.

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#34 Edited by noah_ouellette (3786 posts) - - Show Bio

@burnface: I'm feeling Plo koon is a pretty powerful Jedi master alone, together with katarn it should be theirs.

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#35 Posted by PabloSL (1136 posts) - - Show Bio

The team should take if they work togheter efficiently.

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#36 Posted by TheIrishDoctor (686 posts) - - Show Bio

Been a looooong time since I've played those games, but I am pretty sure that Jerec was already amped when Kyle went to fight him. I distinctly remember that he was unkillable until you cut off power from the valley, meaning that Kyle was fighting him while he was in the process of being amped, and had to defend himself and stop the power from the valley at the same time before Jerec became killable. Which is pretty good, but I'm with @i_like_swords on this one. I think that Dooku probably ekes out a win unless Kyle is stronger than I remember.

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#37 Posted by okayalright_44 (1524 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku