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#1 Posted by Chubbs (931 posts) - - Show Bio

(Sorry if this has been done before. I searched for it but came up empty handed.)

Who would win this fight?

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#2 Posted by USSJ3071 (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

all i can say is grievous is taken out pretty instantly via force crush

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#3 Posted by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump!

Ventress and Grievous. Ventress was only at the slightest disadvantage with an inferior teammate.

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#4 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16799 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku.

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#5 Posted by AmethystGravity (2346 posts) - - Show Bio

Count Dooku is incredibly skilled at dealing with multiple opponents, despite what one would expect for a master of Makashi. Ventress can be dismissed via telekinesis like Dooku did to Obi-wan, and alone, Grievous can be outdueled or taken out with force powers. In fact, while Grievous is resistant to electric weapons like electrostaffs, I wouldn't be surprised if dooku's potent lightning took down the cybernetic general.

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#6 Posted by deactivated-5a20a68641bc7 (1969 posts) - - Show Bio

If the Count is willing to take advantage of his Force advantage, he has the means to win this.

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#7 Posted by deactivated-59c0eef934dfe (918 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku wins, but only due to his Force advantage.

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#8 Posted by decaf_wizard (17006 posts) - - Show Bio

Count gets beaten in sabers, largely because of Greivous. Victory depends on how badly he will abuse the force

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#9 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8225 posts) - - Show Bio

The Count ragdolls them.

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#10 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku wins by abusing the Force, but he loses in a lightsaber battle.

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#11 Posted by ordeith (1595 posts) - - Show Bio

Ventress and Grievous.

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#12 Posted by TheKinfing (11787 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku wins by abusing the Force, but he loses in a lightsaber battle.

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#13 Edited by Richard96 (5799 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku. Both can get ragdolled / force disarmed.

And Dooku is winning also a saber battle . Ventress is far below him , and in a sparring match he casually defeated the general

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#14 Posted by playerx-tr (641 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

"The Force" is nice.

A considerably inferior duo was only at a slight disadvantage against the Count in a full-out battle. He dies.

And he gets trounced in a saber battle, LOL. Ventress as of DD gave him grief, and so did Grievous as of LOE.

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#16 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesithmaster: To be fair, DD Ventress only managed to give Dooku difficulty in the first few lightsaber clashes, she couldn't maintain that level of challenge for a prolonged lightsaber battle.

That feat has been replicated by AOTC Kenobi as well, which is kind of weird.

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#17 Edited by Greysentinel365 (6307 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku. Ventress can be easily swept aside and outdueled. Then the Count beats the General in a decent fight.

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#18 Posted by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

The team have a chance if they can pressure him in sabers and force him into focusing on augmentation.

But the first break he finds, he will abuse the force, which will gain him swift victory.

Unfortunately, their teamwork will probably be abysmal. At the very least they can lay the heat on him for a while.

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#19 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8225 posts) - - Show Bio

"The Force" is nice.

A considerably inferior duo was only at a slight disadvantage against the Count in a full-out battle. He dies.

And he gets trounced in a saber battle, LOL. Ventress as of DD gave him grief, and so did Grievous as of LOE.

This Dooku lowballing is disturbing. Dooku has easily rag dolled Ventress and Vos at the same time in DD, he ca easily do it again to an inferior duo(force wise). He follows up by frying the General with lightning and beating Ventress with relative ease in Sabers.

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#20 Posted by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

@yousufkhan1212:

Still, she gave him grief and kinda stalemated him in a physical contest for a while. And what matters here is that pre-prime Ventress, aided by S3 Savage (someone who is obviously inferior to Grievous) pressed Dooku to the point where he only held a slight advantage. Against a far superior duo, there's no reason for him to survive.

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#21 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku wins.

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#22 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16799 posts) - - Show Bio

Count gets beaten in sabers, largely because of Greivous. Victory depends on how badly he will abuse the force

@yousufkhan1212 said:

Dooku wins by abusing the Force, but he loses in a lightsaber battle.

If the Count is willing to take advantage of his Force advantage, he has the means to win this.

Dooku wins, but only due to his Force advantage.

The team have a chance if they can pressure him in sabers and force him into focusing on augmentation.

But the first break he finds, he will abuse the force, which will gain him swift victory.

Not seeing why Dooku doesn't win a sabers-only fight, as well. Sure, both have the means to press him in such an engagement and present annoyances, but he's still above both by a fairly considerable margin. He's also a master of leverage, precision, manuverability and position which would play a big part in him dancing around these two. Teams with better synergy(Asajj and Vos), with more experience working together(Sora Bulq and Tholme) and who are generally more well-rounded combatants(Obi-Wan and Anakin) have been pawns in Dooku's saber games before.

It's not hard to imagine him working Asajj into GG's way, disabling one with a precise strike or taking out the other with a well-placed kick or punch as he's often fond of doing.

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#23 Posted by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209:

That does remind me. In the novel he takes out Kenobi via kick and in DD he took down Asajj via martial skill iirc.

I suppose it's certainly a viable way of winning here.

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#24 Posted by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin:

This Dooku lowballing is disturbing.

Dooku lowballing? I rarely see that. Dooku highballing? Yeah, I've seen it.

Dooku has easily rag dolled Ventress and Vos at the same time in DD,

Excerpt please.

he ca easily do it again to an inferior duo(force wise).

Then why didn't he easily ragdoll Ventress+S3 Savage, a duo solidly inferior to Quin+DD Asajj?

He follows up by frying the General with lightning

Which will be rendered moot by something called using your lightsaber to block it, something AOTC Kenobi managed to do against Dooku pretty casually. Given Grievous nearly bested Kenobi's far superior ROTS iteration... yeah. Don't see why he can't intercept Lightning on his blade.

and beating Ventress with relative ease in Sabers.

How will he do that when pre-prime Ventress stalemated a version of Anakin slightly better than the one Dooku had serious grief with? And DD Ventress gave him grief?

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#25 Edited by Greysentinel365 (6307 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesithmaster:

Excerpt please.

Dooku almost nonchalantly ragdolls Quinlan Vos and Asajj Ventress, incapacitating them:

He stood tall, imposing, and as Vos raced toward him, Dooku didn't flinch. He lowered his sword and extended his hand. Vos rose in the air and then Dooku shoved, sending the Jedi slamming into one of the pillars. The count turned, almost nonchalantly performing the same maneuver with Ventress. The wind was knocked out of her and she couldn't breathe. Stubbornly, using her hate the way she had taught Vos to do, she summoned energy to to push herself up to a kneeling position, still clutching her lightsaber.

Dooku's lip curled in a manner that might have been a smile or a snarl. Abruptly, Ventress found herself dangling in in the air as he whirled her around behind him and then threw her down like a spoiled child discarding a disliked toy.

The pain was excruciating, but Ventress remained conscious long enough to see that Dooku wasn't yet done. She could only watch helplessly as she slid, headfirst, into the unyielding stone of a meticulously carved bench. Then the world went white, and she knew nothing more.

Source: Dark Disciple

Credit to SN's RT

Then why didn't he easily ragdoll Ventress+S3 Savage, a duo solidly inferior to Quin+DD Asajj?

Plot. Especially since his powers far surpass their combined ones

Which will be rendered moot by something called using your lightsaber to block it, something AOTC Kenobi managed to do against Dooku pretty casually. Given Grievous nearly bested Kenobi's far superior ROTS iteration... yeah. Don't see why he can't intercept Lightning on his blade.

Confirmed to be a force ability. Grievous cannot do it

How will he do that when pre-prime Ventress stalemated a version of Anakin slightly better than the one Dooku had serious grief with?

Because Anakin is a power duelist. Even then Dooku only really had issue with him in S4. When Palpatine was in the room. Which is a set of special circumstances for Anakin.

And DD Ventress gave him grief?

For all of two seconds stop trying to lowball Dooku. AotC Kenobi has done better despite being exhausted from the arena.

Snarling, Ventress charged at Dooku, reveling in the strength of her muscles as she dealt strike after strike. Her old Master parried expertly, but she forced him back. He dodged to one side. Just as Ventress realized she had overextended, Dooku's left hand clamped down on her right wrist and he brought up his own lightsaber. It was Ventress's turn to seize his arm and hold the scarlet blade at bay. For an instant, the two, their faces only centimeters apart, stared into each other's eyes in a mockery of lovers. Then Dooku heaved her up and sent her sprawling. Unable to catch herself in time, Ventress landed heavily with a grunt.

Dark Disciple

It's implied he was baiting her into overextending anyway.

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#26 Posted by Kilius (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku. Dooku's shown that he can easily dismantle Ventress's inferior Makashi in a duel. And Grievous has only briefly pressed Dooku in their sparing sessions:

Grievous had been a delight to train, as well. No need to coax him to release his anger and rage, as Dooku had been forced to do during the training of his so-called Dark Jedi disciples. The Geonosians had arranged for Grievous to be nothing but anger and rage. And as to the general's combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.

Source: Labyrinth of Evil

And as most should know Dooku wasn't hard-pressed at all in the sparing match in OCW.

Dooku can beat both. Heck he could probably just ragdoll the both of them right from the beginning if he wants. He's already done that to prime Ventress and Grievous obviously has no defense.

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#27 Edited by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

Two-on-ones aren't a matter of just adding the two characters' skills and abilities on top of each other. Not only has Dooku faced better duos, but he's also intimately familiar with both Ventress and Grievous' fighting techniques in a way that he isn't against most foes, despite his extensive breadth of knowledge on combat forms in general. As a result, he has generally beaten both in combat fairly easily. I don't find it particularly hard to award Tyranus the majority, even in a sabers only setting. Add Force powers and the Count's victory is virtually guaranteed.

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#28 Edited by deactivated-59c0eef934dfe (918 posts) - - Show Bio

Prior to Grievous's battle with Mace Windu, Dooku admitted that Grievous was his near-equal. During the duel between Grievous and Mace, we learn that Grievous successfully analyses Vaapad, even if his own version is a crude representation of Mace's own skill with the style. Even so, I feel like the inclusion of Vaapad would bump Grievous up to Dooku's level

Asajj Ventress was a superior duelist to Anakin a mere 6 months before the war's end, which should make her comparable to Dooku, though admittedly, she isn't in his tier by any means (especially when beings like Neeja Halcyon have also stalemated/bested Anakin of this time period).

Now, I never claimed that I believed that the team > Dooku in 'sabers-only, but I do believe that they can stalemate him. Dooku's inclusion of the Force, and his expertise in group combat, hand him the victory.

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#29 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16799 posts) - - Show Bio

@kiadisandwich: Prior to Grievous's battle with Mace Windu, Dooku admitted that Grievous was his near-equal.

When? Dooku actually ends up scolding Grievous and his lack luster fighting style; he never admits Grievous is his near equal.

During the duel between Grievous and Mace, we learn that Grievous successfully analyses Vaapad, even if his own version is a crude representation of Mace's own skill with the style. Even so, I feel like the inclusion of Vaapad would bump Grievous up to Dooku's level

A crude interpretation of something much larger than a fighting style isn't going to bump GG to Dooku's level when Tyranus has experience against said fighting style.

Asajj Ventress was a superior duelist to Anakin a mere 6 months before the war's end,

Was she? It's fairly evident she's far below him.

which should make her comparable to Dooku, though admittedly, she isn't in his tier by any means (especially when beings like Neeja Halcyon have also stalemated/bested Anakin of this time period).

Anakin's growth in skill is vast. A few months prior to RotS, Dooku had an easy time dancing around him and Obi-Wan.

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#30 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6307 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: @kiadisandwich: I'll just chime in quickly.

Asajj Ventress was a superior duelist to Anakin a mere 6 months before the war's end,

Anakin's growth in skill is vast. A few months prior to RotS, Dooku had an easy time dancing around him and Obi-Wan.

So if you want to ignore the Companion quote (which I think Emperor is) and go purely Legends. Then you have to realize that Anakin never fought Dooku in the war if we go old school legends. There are also no quotes indicating a "vast" growth rate apart from Kenobi and Anakin getting a lot fame in the Outer Rim sieges (which take place after said duel)

So the significance of the duel drops in pure old school legends.

Furthermore Ventress never shows superiority to Anakin. Not only was she stalemated by Obi-Wan days prior. But the only blows she lands were by threatening Padme (Ani was triggered) and when she ambushed him.

Even then they both scored hits.

Then add in Dooku literally finger flicking her in DR and the picture you're attempting to paint here just doesn't fit.

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#31 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6307 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: Oh and on another note.

Did Dooku ever spar Windu with Vaapad? Even then, it would be incomplete considering Windu and Bulq were still working on it 10 years later by AotC?

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#32 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16799 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365: I assume they did and nah, it wasn't incomplete. I don't recall Vaapad still being a project by AotC.

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#33 Edited by AlexTheBoss (17992 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku should win but it will be tough. Grievous is at a big disadvantage without the force and the Count knows his moves. He should know how Ventress fights as well and he has shown he can beat her pretty quickly.

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#34 Posted by Kilius (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365:

Master Windu was also known within the Order for his unusual fighting style, one that he developed after studying the dueling styles of various lightsaber masters. His attacks consisted of relentless, unpredictable blows, like shots from an autoblaster. Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective.

source Power of the Jedi Sourcebook

The source describes Mace's fighting form, which is obviously Vaapad, before laying the people who have beaten him. So I think it's safe to say Dooku has beaten Mace while the latter was using Vaapad. Also Dooku recognized Vaapad when besting Sora Bulq, the co-creator of the form, so more evidence that Mace has spared with Dooku, while using it. Even if Dooku never beat a Vaapad Mace, he still bested Bulq easily, who was certainly using Vaapad. I'm sure Bulq's mastery of the form is greater than Grievous's rough copy of it.

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#35 Posted by deactivated-5c508820920c0 (887 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure Dooku has asserted his dominance over the likes of Ventress and Grievous individually. With both of them as a team, they may pose some challenge, but Dooku should honestly have this.

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#36 Posted by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365:

Dooku almost nonchalantly ragdolls Quinlan Vos and Asajj Ventress,

Ragdolled? He lifted them into the air for a very brief amount of time. That's hardly domination. Vader lifted Galen into the air but proceeded to get blown away with a Repulse shortly after. Then he shoved them away. Shoving =/= outright dominating someone. He didn't ragdoll them. And he's not going to ragdoll this duo unless the starting distance is pathetically favorable to Dooku. Given people like AOTC Anakin, who are below Ventress and Grievous individually, have pressed Dooku to the point where he couldn't use the Force and had to defend with the saber.

Plot.

So now, when things don't help your argument, you write them off as plot without proof? LOL. I can, as easily and much more legitimately, write off the DD ragdoll as plot. Especially when Dooku failed to replicate it in a close quarters fight against: AOTC Kenobi and AOTC Anakin.

Especially since his powers far surpass their combined ones

His abilities "far surpassed" the abilties of his apprentices. Meaning, the ability of each apprentice. Dooku's vastly more powerful than either alone. But when they combine their powers and this becomes an all-out fight, Dooku held a slight advantage.

"Dooku's Sith mastery BARELY gave him the edge over his former apprentices."

This was against TCW S3 Ventress+Savage. Given Ventress has likely improved up to her prime, and Grievous is head and shoulders above Savage, Dooku ain't beating this duo.

Confirmed to be a force ability.

Where?

And you need to have skill with a saber to deflect it too. Only Force sensitives can deflect it because they can augment their strength. Any non-Force sensitive will be instantly disarmed by the Lightning because they don't have the strength. Force sensitives have that strength. Grievous isn't a Force sensitive but he's stronger than most if not all Jedi alive. Except for Yoda, of course. If Grievous is so strong and skilled, I don't see why he can't deflect Lightning. Especially given AOTC Kenobi, someone one tier below Grievous and whose much stronger ROTS version got owned by Grievous in H2H combat, deflected it casually.

Grievous cannot do it

Any disadvantage that relates to being non-Force sensitive is circumvented by Grievous' physicals that are only matched by two out of 10,000+ Force sensitives in the prequel era.

Because Anakin is a power duelist.

AOTC Anakin isn't the power duelist he was in TCW/ROTS/LOE/DR etc. And him having two blades actually negated that advantage to a degree.

And Anakin being a power duelist is as much an advantage against Ventress than it is against Dooku. It was actually a bigger advantage against Asajj evidenced by how he used one blade all of the time.

Even then Dooku only really had issue with him in S4.

In S4, Anakin did more than give Dooku issues. He momentarily gained the upper hand. Which Dooku was able to break out of by spamming Lightning on an off-guard Anakin.

When Palpatine was in the room. Which is a set of special circumstances for Anakin.

Palpatine amped Anakin once when Anakin "was the only thing standing between death and the two men he loved most", "had a nuclear flame consume his Jedi restraint", and actively told him to draw on his anger. He didn't do that here.

For all of two seconds stop trying to lowball Dooku.

You are writing off instances that don't help your argument as plot, and using others which are much more incosistent and not writing them off as plot just because they suit you. And you're trying to claim Anakin was aided circumstancially despite having no proof. And I'm the biased one here? Sure is a funny way of looking at things.

AotC Kenobi has done better despite being exhausted from the arena.

An exhausted AOTC Kenobi gave Dooku grief... Ventress and Grievous are much better than Kenobi, evidenced by when:

Pre-prime Ventress defeated post-AOTC Kenobi.

Ventress was surprised, but in the next moment disengaged her right-hand blade and slashed at his neck, attempting to behead him. There was no time for conscious thought, no time for anything but response as Obi-Wan ducked and spun back. Ventress drew his attention to the left and leapt into the air in a spinning kick that slammed Obi-Wan down into the dock. Once down, he never had a chance to get up again, found himself fighting from his back, wiggling and edging backwards, movement so limited that he knew the confrontation might be over within seconds. The first touch of desperation wormed its way through his emotional shields.

The Cestus Deception

And when in the same book she defeated Kit Fisto:

No Caption Provided

Who was Obi-Wan's solid superior as evidenced by the fact Obi-Wan swiftly discovered Kit was the better swordfighter, even while Kit held back.

Obi-Wan swiftly discovered that Kit was the better swordfighter,astonishingly aggressive and intuitive in comparison with Obi-Wan’s more measured style. But the Nautolan gave himself deliberate disadvantages, hampered himself in terms of balance, limited his speed, emphasized his nondominant side to force himself to full attention, the kind of full attention that can be best accessed only when life itself is at risk.

The Cestus Deception

Grievous also "nearly bested" ROTS Kenobi:

No Caption Provided

You just said that an exhausted AOTC Kenobi, who while fresh is still solidly inferior to both Grievous and Ventress, can strain Dooku. Thus helping me prove both Asajj and Grievous can give Dooku serious grief on their own; together, they outmatched Dooku. Uhh... thanks, I guess.

It's implied he was baiting her into overextending anyway.

She had overextended. Ventress overextended, thus having her defenses down when Dooku struck the first blow. Even then, Ventress was able to briefly stalemate the Count physically. Yeah, Dooku won, against a Ventress who was at a disadvantage.

With a considerably inferior teammate, Ventress was only at the slightest disadvantage against Dooku. With the general as her backup, the Count dies.

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#37 Edited by Greysentinel365 (6307 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesithmaster:

Ragdolled? He lifted them into the air for a very brief amount of time. That's hardly domination. Vader lifted Galen into the air but proceeded to get blown away with a Repulse shortly after. Then he shoved them away. Shoving =/= outright dominating someone. He didn't ragdoll them. And he's not going to ragdoll this duo unless the starting distance is pathetically favorable to Dooku. Given people like AOTC Anakin, who are below Ventress and Grievous individually, have pressed Dooku to the point where he couldn't use the Force and had to defend with the saber.

So lifting people into the air and slamming them into objects, then lifting and dangling them in the air and then throwing them to other side of the room unconscious isn't ragdolling?

Good to know. I'll be sure to link back to this in the future.

Anakin only did as well as he did because he surprised Dooku with his level of competence. Dooku rapidly disarmed him and then...... disarmed him.

So now, when things don't help your argument, you write them off as plot without proof? LOL. I can, as easily and much more legitimately, write off the DD ragdoll as plot. Especially when Dooku failed to replicate it in a close quarters fight against: AOTC Kenobi and AOTC Anakin.

This is rich coming from you. I'm calling it plot because

1. In the same episode Dooku disabled Savage with one burst of lightning.

2. In the same episode Dooku easily disarmed and ragdolled Ventress.

3. Dooku has always been able to ragdoll Ventress (and by proxy her inferior in Savage) no matter what medium they have been portrayed in. Including this one. Even at her most powerful in Legends Dooku could literally flick her down.

It's the same reason Suki can challenge Maul. It's TCW PIS. And should be treated accordingly.

Dooku wanted to play with Kenobi in AotC. And later in RotS confirms that he would have preferred to capture and turn him because of his connection to Qui-Gon.

Anakin may have surprised Dooku but didn't really make much headway after that.

is abilities "far surpassed" the abilties of his apprentices. Meaning, the ability of each apprentice. Dooku's vastly more powerful than either alone. But when they combine their powers and this becomes an all-out fight, Dooku held a slight advantage.

I've explained in the past why this interpretation doesn't work.

Asajj Ventress and Savage Opress wage a combined attack against Dooku, whose abilities with the Force far surpass those of his apprentices.

http://www.starwars.com/video/dooku-vs-his-apprentices

If there were a period instead of a comma your interpretation would be valid. But there is not. The subject of the sentence is their "combined" attack and then ends with stating "his apprentices." Referring to both of them.

It does not say "far surpass each of them" or anything of the sort. It refers to them both, in a sentence where their combined attack is the subject. Dooku far surpasses their collective power. Deal with it.

Where?

Loading Video...

In S4, Anakin did more than give Dooku issues. He momentarily gained the upper hand. Which Dooku was able to break out of by spamming Lightning on an off-guard Anakin.

When Anakin was driven by Palpatine being there and Dooku was boxed in by having to defend him sure. Yet in S6 Dooku had no issues with Anakin. Quickly and almost casually beating him back.

Also, the idea that Dooku only won because he spammed lightning is false. If you actually watch the video you would see that Dooku wrenches Anakin's hand from his throat with his own strength and then uses lightning. So Dooku was quite capable of escaping with his own physical abilities.

Palpatine amped Anakin once when Anakin "was the only thing standing between death and the two men he loved most", "had a nuclear flame consume his Jedi restraint", and actively told him to draw on his anger. He didn't do that here.

Read the post I linked. Anakin was amped long before he was Palpatine's presence. The very idea of him being in danger is what gave him the nuclear inferno in the first place.

An exhausted AOTC Kenobi gave Dooku grief... Ventress and Grievous are much better than Kenobi, evidenced by when:

And yet Ventress still only pressed him for a second. And Grievous only for scant moments. Nothing changes that.

Pre-prime Ventress defeated post-AOTC Kenobi.

That's a very convenient snippet there you've posted out of context. For starters Ventress didn't defeat Kenobi. Had him on the back foot? Sure. But she didn't win. And in fact Kenobi defeated her in the encounter proceeding that one.

And when in the same book she defeated Kit Fisto:

Again out of context. Ventress had studied Kit's style beforehand and had a form advantage via Makashi to Kit's Shi Cho.

Who was Obi-Wan's solid superior as evidenced by the fact Obi-Wan swiftly discovered Kit was the better swordfighter, even while Kit held back.

Kit was his solid superior. The two eventually equalized as the sparring match continued.

And it's known that studying with swordmasters can allow you to increase quickly.

A Twi'lek, with slender head-tails and a heavily muscled upper body, his name was Anoon Bondara, a duelist of unparalleled skill. Qui-Gon engaged him in matches at every opportunity. For a match with Bondara, no matter how brief, was more instructive than twenty contests against lesser opponents.

Source: Cloak of Deception

Furthermore. Kenobi already partially stalemated Ventress despite his lungs melting and then again after 3 weeks of torture (including a Sith Torture mask).

There's no vast difference between them if there is any at all.

Grievous also "nearly bested" ROTS Kenobi:

If you read the quote instead of getting tunnel vision you would know that it's only referring to the fist fight. Not the duel. The panel beforehand already addresses the context.

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The only panel that refers to the duel directly on the site states Obi "confidently cut though Grievous"

You just said that an exhausted AOTC Kenobi, who while fresh is still solidly inferior to both Grievous and Ventress, can strain Dooku. Thus helping me prove both Asajj and Grievous can give Dooku serious grief on their own; together, they outmatched Dooku. Uhh... thanks, I guess.

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The point I was making is that pressing Dooku for a few seconds is an AotC Kenobi level achievement. Not some godly showing of comparability.

And no matter how much you want it to. It will never change the facts that even in her prime Dooku can take Asajj is seconds and Grievous in a few more.

None of this changes the fact that Dooku deals with her easily at later points in the war.

She had overextended. Ventress overextended, thus having her defenses down when Dooku struck the first blow. Even then, Ventress was able to briefly stalemate the Count physically. Yeah, Dooku won, against a Ventress who was at a disadvantage.

Now whose making up circumstances.

If the only way Ventress can compete with Dooku is by overextending, well that just says it all really. The two remained locked for barely 1 second before the Count lifted her off the ground and power slammed her. They're not comparable.

With a considerably inferior teammate, Ventress was only at the slightest disadvantage against Dooku. With the general as her backup, the Count dies.

Not even close.

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#40 Posted by Erkan12 (8435 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku wins if there is no restriction on direct TK and TP usage.

Team wins in a pure lightsaber duel.

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#41 Posted by Richard96 (5799 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku clowns

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#42 Posted by bigsambino87 (1754 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku wins. He is not going to play around with these two, because he knows they are dangerous.

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#43 Edited by Necromancer76 (3783 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku, he kinda taught them both so he made sure to keep some techniques to himself.

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#44 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (4735 posts) - - Show Bio
Loading Video...

I imagine the duel goes a little like this.

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#45 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku probably takes this with or without Force abuse.

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#46 Edited by Erkan12 (8435 posts) - - Show Bio

@yousufkhan1212 said:

Dooku probably takes this with or without Force abuse.

Without Force?

I take this Grievous is at least a threat as TCW S3 Savage Opress, and Dooku needed his Force powers to keep them at bay, without it he would lose.

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#47 Posted by YousufKhan1212 (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12: I don't freaking know I'm just guessing.

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#48 Posted by Batvibe12 (5710 posts) - - Show Bio

If Count Dooku utilizes Force telekinesis, he should win. If he doesn't, I'm going with Ventress and Grievous.

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#49 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio

He might win if he abuses the Force. If he doesn't, the team wins without that much difficulty.

Dooku was having serious difficulty against Ventress and TCW S3 Savage who is inferior to Grievous.

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#50 Posted by RedHeathen (2246 posts) - - Show Bio

There is no ragdolling, but Tyranus will defeat the duo. It is not an easy victory, but it won't be his most difficult, either. I think his fight on the Invisible Hand, pre-Anakin opening to the dark side, would have been more difficult for him. Ventress and GG are exceptionally skilled, and Ventress was enough of a threat to Sidious to have Sidious demand her execution (arguably there is another reason). However, combined, the two of them will not defeat the the duo of Inv. Hand Skywalker/Kenobi. I'm sure ABC logic isn't great to use, but I think it works here because we have ample showings for each combatant to use for comparison.