Count Dooku joins Maul and Savage against Darth Sidious

I guess sidious will be taking a early retirement plan

Edit: my moneys on sidious tho

I’d say Sidious >> Dooku > Maul > Savage

I think they can make up the gap unless Sidious abuses the force....and I mean ABUSES

Sidious isn't winning this fight unless he abuses the force. Dooku can give Mace windu the fight of his life, as well as Give Yoda a decent fight...While Maul is good enough by himself to give Sidious a decent fight and not get one shotted.

Together Sidious is losing unless He abuses the force then he could maybe win.

Same result. Sid is just that much of a pimp.

Same result. Sidious was practically toying with this duo and we know that Dooku isnt extraordinarily far above Maul due to TCW/Kenobi scaling.

Jedi Dooku gave Mace a fight when both were vastly pre-prime and it was also only in legends, beyond his fights with TCW Anakin and Yoda in AOTC (Where he literally ran away), there is nothing putting him in the same tier as Yoda and Mace.

In fact, Dooku lost once in TCW (albeit circumstantially) then again finally in ROTS to an Anakin who is viewed as inferior to both Mace and Yoda.

Sidious was able to Ragdoll Maul. Not just grab him off guard with force choke, but multiple times Ragdoll him. Dooku isnt some great amount above Kenobi in terms of raw force power (As demonstraited in ROTS via Anakin/Vader), and Sidious already blatantly broke his force barrier from half way across the Galaxy through a Hologram.

Sidious’s Force Superiority over Dooku isnt some minor gap, its significant enough to put him in the same range as Maul if he isnt Perfect in his movements.

The gap in Sabers may not be entirely as significant, as per Canon, Sidious also outright lost to Mace in a duel, as I believe Dooku would have.. but I just dont think Sabers is going to decide this fight. This isnt like his battle with Windu where he is fighting an opponent who is outright better in sabers. All of his opponents are below him in Sabers, and all are inferior in the force in terms of skill and power.

Still Sidious, he would get overwhelmed in sabers but he can still fall back on his force abilities where he's still far superior.

Still Sidious

A serious Sidious would still win

Sidious would win because of his force abilities.

Lol, it's stated that Ventress+Dooku would be too much for Sidious, hence he had her terminated. Unless you think that Ventress >>>> Savage+Maul, the team demolishes.

@lord_tenebrous:

"Lol, it's stated that Ventress+Dooku would be too much for Sidious" It wasn't stated it was Sidious being his usual superstitious self.

Nope. Sidious was scared of Dooku+Ventress team up which is why he told dooku to kill her so he couldn't use her to overthrow him.

which implies that Dooku was way below Sidious but not as massively as we all thought he was. Ventress is above Oppress in both power and Skill with a light saber.

This team is enough to defeat Sidious. I like Sidious as much as the next but you need to stop wanking him. He isn't defeating two Dooku tier fighters at the same time. his only hope is to abuse the force which will drain him.

@mygod000:

Palpatine was afraid of Ventress's growing power which could have threatened him which is fair enough she was incredibly talented and was growing at a fast rate.

"Dooku was way below Sidious but not as massively as we all thought he was" I agree, Dooku can't be "stomped" or "blitzed" by Palpatine but he'll lose every time still. But Maul and Savage can as we saw in the fight they had.

"I like Sidious as much as the next but you need to stop wanking him" whos wanking who

Mace Windu couldn't cover for Fisto, Kolar and Tinn, Dooku can't cover for Maul and Savage.

Dooku in George Lucas Canon is way more powerful than Maul.

Ventress is more powerful than Oppress.

Sidious didn't by no mean Stomp Maul at all, he did struggle against him and seeing him struggle against maul Dooku who is much more powerful has a far better chance Adding Ventress who is far more skilled than Oppress and more powerful...this team wins.

@mygod000:

"Dooku in George Lucas Canon is way more powerful than Maul." He was more powerful but the extent to how much he waws is arguable and I'm pretty sure this is canon and if it's not Palpatine wins even harder.

"Ventress is more powerful than Oppress." Yes, but she's not fighting Palpatine Savage is.

"Sidious didn't by no mean Stomp Maul at all" Palpatine literally began the fight by ragdolling Maul and Savage and holding them in place and then letting them go.

If it is George Lucas Canon then Sidious loses completely because he isn't Ragdolling Dooku Nor is he blitzing.

Maul+Dooku alone is more then enough to beat Sidious, like I said Sidious already lost to Mace Windu Who Dooku is more powerful than. Adding in Maul make this pretty much a decisive win for the team.

Sidous uses a paltry half of his power to grind them into space dust.

@dalootajr:

Yoda in the movie Struggled to deflect Dooku's force lightning back at him. While Maul, Couldn't really make Sidious TCW Sidious Struggle.

Yoda and TCW Sidious are pretty much par with each other in powers. From that alone we can conclude that Dooku in GL Canon>>Maul>>Oppress.

it never stated the difference in power, but by the feats of Dooku making Yoda Struggle...when Maul couldn't even make Yoda Peer Sidious struggle proves my point that their is a decent distance in their power.

@mygod000: sure he isn't... that must have been dooku's twin brother that sidious force choked through a hologram from across the galaxy... it all makes sense now...

Maul was also immediately pinned to a wall with a mere gesture, he is just entertainment.

@mygod000:

"Sidious already lost to Mace Windu Who Dooku is more powerful than" That's not true and if you believe it to be back it up.

"Adding in Maul make this pretty much a decisive win for the team." Maul is fodder to Palpatine how is this so hard to understand?

"it never stated the difference in power, but by the feats of Dooku making Yoda Struggle...when Maul couldn't even make Yoda Peer Sidious struggle proves my point that their is a decent distance in their power." I concede here but don't see how Dooku can save Maul and Savage here, Dooku made Yoda struggle a bit but he would have lost 10/10 times.

"when Maul couldn't even make Yoda Peer Sidious struggle proves my point" That proves mine as well Maul won't be a factor to Palpatine.

it's easy to force choke someone when they are not even trying to defend themselves or putting up a force barrier. If we want to talk about that their are also a deleted scenes of Maul force choking Sidious as well.

@mygod000:

They're deleted for a reason.

the fact that Dooku could force Yoda to struggle put him above Mace in power.

If Maul was fodder than Sidious would have defeated him sooner than he did, and in a deleted scene of the episode maul is able to force choke Sidious. It doesn't work like that. Sidious was scared of Ventress who maul is much more powerful and better than.

so the idea is if Sidious scared of Dooku+ventress team up, then Dooku+Maul team is the death of Sidious, Because Maul>>Ventress>Oppress

Maul+Dooku Together bridges the gap since Dooku alone can make Sidious struggle adding an extra powerful body to the fight gives it to the team as win. Sidious had to seperate them just to defeat maul and Oppress...how is he doing that here? as soon as he takes his eyes off Dooku he is either dead or hit with force lightning.

It took many people for Sidious to get in a one on one to kill them off one by one.

@mygod000:

"the fact that Dooku could force Yoda to struggle put him above Mace in power."

So contending against Yoda and having to escape is better than matching Palpatine and actually getting the upper hand in a fight?

"If Maul was fodder than Sidious would have defeated him sooner than he did, and in a deleted scene of the episode maul is able to force choke Sidious." Palpatine was playing and enjoying himself it's quite evident in the fight and the deleted scene is deleted why are you mentioning it?

"so the idea is if Sidious scared of Dooku+ventress team up, then Dooku+Maul team is the death of Sidious, Because Maul>>Ventress>Oppress" Looks like Palpatine had nothing to be afraid of according to you since Palpatine spanked Maul who is > Ventress.

"Sidious had to seperate them just to defeat maul and Oppress...how is he doing that here?" He could literally ragdoll them like I've been saying several times now.

"as soon as he takes his eyes off Dooku he is either dead or hit with force lightning" Force lightning that both Anakin and Obi-Wan can react to so why can't Palpatine?

You are not getting the point. Mace needed 3 other Jedi Masters help just to do that against Sidious.

The deleted scene Still happened which is why I mentioned it, if it didn't exist I couldn't mention it but since it does exist i am able to talk about it because it worth mentioning. Maul is powerful enough to defeat TCW Mace who with 3 master tier Jedi could defeat Sidious.

If we have 1 Guy who can make Sidious Struggle and another guy who can give Sidious a decent fight...how is Sidious winning the fight?

You're missing the point, It Let me spell it out for you....Sidious wasn't scared of Ventress by herself...He was scared of Ventress and Dooku Teaming up to fight him.

If Sidious is Scared of Dooku+ventress fighting him and challenging him than Maul+Dooku kills Sidious since Maul>>Ventress, and Dooku>>Maul.

Filoni confirmed that Sidious didn't think very highly of Ventress.

"You are not getting the point. Mace needed 3 other Jedi Masters help just to do that against Sidious." 3 Masters who were murdered because of Palpatine's confusion haze. They weren't there when Windu and Palpatine were fighting your not making any sense.

"The deleted scene Still happened which is why I mentioned it, if it didn't exist I couldn't mention it but since it does exist i am able to talk about it because it worth mentioning." It's irrelevant to the discussion it's deleted for a reason.

"Maul is powerful enough to defeat TCW Mace who with 3 master tier Jedi could defeat Sidious." Blocking a strike is defeating someone now?!! Savage also disarmed Dooku with a single blow.

"If we have 1 Guy who can make Sidious Struggle and another guy who can give Sidious a decent fight...how is Sidious winning the fight?" By ragdolling Maul and Savage then killing Dooku.

"Sidious wasn't scared of Ventress by herself...He was scared of Ventress and Dooku Teaming up to fight him." "I can sense her powers growing stronger, I would hate to think that you're training own sith apprentice to destroy me." His words seem to be referencing Ventress herself although there are different ways of interpreting it.

Dooku was heavily pressured and pressed by Ventress and Savage and the latter was able to throw him back with brute strength twice while Palpatine was able to casually overpower Savage and Maul in a bladelock at the same time.

"IGN: He really always does have the upper hand in that fight."

"Filoni:And he’s enjoying himself while he does it."

Palpatine will win this fight the degree of effort should be the debate not whether he'd lose or not.

Troubled by Asajj Ventress' growing prowess with the dark side of the Force, Darth Sidious commands Count Dooku to eliminate her.

-StarWars.com, Nightsisters Episode Guide

-StarWars.com, Count Dooku Biography Gallery

Though Asajj devotes her service to Dooku, the Count is loyal to Darth Sidious, who sees a threat in Asajj's growing power and orders her killed.

-Star Wars: Women of the Galaxy

Sensing Ventress' growing strength in the Force, Sidious orders Count Dooku to kill his apprentice.

-Ultimate Star Wars New Edition.

"I shall teach you the ways of the dark side. Soon, your powers will rival that of the great Sith Lord Darth Maul. We will be even more powerful than Lord Sidious."

-Count Dooku, to Savage Opress (TCW S3E13).

If you read between the lines, you shall realize that two Dooku/Maul tier characters can beat Sidious. That is why he wanted Ventress killed before she could reach that level. That is why Dooku wanted Savage to rival Maul in power. That is why Sidious dealt with Maul & Savage before they became a threat themselves.

Dooku and Maul want their respective apprentices to reach their level (but don't want to be surpassed by them) so that they can defeat Sidious, and Sidious fears that they will.

To answer the OP's question, the trio should win.

sidious blinks

This comes down to how Sidious fights. If he tries to have his fun and fights with his sabers then he’s going to lose. If he abuses his massive superiority in the force then he can win.

Sidious wasn't even taking Maul and Savage seriously and was still humbling them. They're literal fodder to him. Giving Dooku two fodder teammates isn't going to do anything besides adding a third corpse to the pile.

• Maul alone fought Sidious without giving any ground and matched him until they engaged in a bladelock and Sidious used his superior strength to slowly overpower him. Sidious would not be able to do that while dealing also with Maul's teammates.
• Maul also briefly fought Aayla Secura & Mace Windu (who disarmed Sidious) and did well.
• Sidious didn't manage to kill Savage until he separated him from Maul.
• Both Maul and Savage landed physical strikes on Sidious.
• They will be aided by Count Dooku, of all people.

Then all you have to do is factor in holistic portrayal:

@rgr said:

Troubled by Asajj Ventress' growing prowess with the dark side of the Force, Darth Sidious commands Count Dooku to eliminate her.

-StarWars.com, Nightsisters Episode Guide

-StarWars.com, Count Dooku Biography Gallery

Though Asajj devotes her service to Dooku, the Count is loyal to Darth Sidious, who sees a threat in Asajj's growing power and orders her killed.

-Star Wars: Women of the Galaxy

Sensing Ventress' growing strength in the Force, Sidious orders Count Dooku to kill his apprentice.

-Ultimate Star Wars New Edition.

"I shall teach you the ways of the dark side. Soon, your powers will rival that of the great Sith Lord Darth Maul. We will be even more powerful than Lord Sidious."

-Count Dooku, to Savage Opress (TCW S3E13).

If you read between the lines, you shall realize that two Dooku/Maul tier characters can beat Sidious. That is why he wanted Ventress killed before she could reach that level. That is why Dooku wanted Savage to rival Maul in power. That is why Sidious dealt with Maul & Savage before they became a threat themselves.

Dooku and Maul want their respective apprentices to reach their level (but don't want to be surpassed by them) so that they can defeat Sidious, and Sidious fears that they will.

To answer the OP's question, the trio should win.

Sidious extreme difficulty but I can see it possibly going to the trio.

The canon 2015 Fact Files elaborate that TCW Sidious ordered Ventress' assassination specifically because if that version of Ventress grew any more powerful than she already was, her + Dooku would be enough to overthrow Sidious:

"Sidious knew that, should Asajj become any more powerful, the combined might of Dooku and Ventress could overthrow him."

-- The Official Star Wars Fact Files Relaunched

And indeed, Ventress was always growing in power:

"There was no doubt that Asajj Ventress was not only a powerful dark side Force user, but was growing in power all the time."

-- The Official Star Wars Fact Files Relaunched

So when Ventress tried to assassinate Dooku, she would be even stronger than before. Strong enough that her and Dooku were capable of killing Sidious. And Dooku was vastly superior to a stronger Ventress + Savage:

"Asajj Ventress and Savage Opress wage a combined attack against Dooku, whose abilities with the Force far surpass those of his apprentices."

-- StarWars.com: Video Guide

I.E., if Sidious is a 12, Dooku is an 11 and Ventress is a 2. Maul and Savage combined >>>>>>>>> Ventress. People keep saying that they're fodder to Sidious and therefore useless, but that's not how it works. 2 + 2 is still 4. Combined with Dooku, they are much better than before.

Sidious loses badly.

Actually, Dooku and Savage solo lol. He's stronger than the Ventress who tried to assassinate Dooku.

Obviously Sidious.

@lord_tenebrous: The Fact Files aren't revised by the Story Group since their run started before the canon split, and they have tons of references to Legends material that isn't canon. But it's likely they are not that far off the current stance on that specific matter.

@rgr:

That's only the case with a few articles that were already in production when the wipe occurred. This fact file in particular was released a year later. The Relaunched Fact Files post-2014 contain a bunch of exclusively canon material(Son of Dathomir narrative, Rebels, etc), so there's no reason to think that this one is legends.

@lord_tenebrous: Those Rebels articles you mention are clearly not Legends, but the people at DeAgostini were writing without Story Group's supervision from the start, and there's no indication the Story Group got involved at any point, more so given they were still publishing Shadows of the Empire (Legends) articles, for example. Personally I wouldn't consider them proofread canon, but I could be wrong.

@rgr:

Well, this fact file in particular features Rebels content, and the rest is TCW or ROTS stuff. It's definitely not legends.

@mygod000: “Maul is powerful enough to defeat Mace”

Maul cant even defeat Kenobi. He and Kenobi are ragdoll material for Sidious, as we saw in their fight where Sidious ragdolls Maul 4 seperate times, 3 of which, maul was prepaired for.

Dooku lost to a version of Anakin that is canonically weaker than Mace Windu, by both Writer statements and by feats (Windu/Sidious appear as a Blur to Anakin in their duel)

And Dooku didnt just lose Once, he lost to Anakin twice (TCW+ROTS)

Sidious and Mace > Anakin > Dooku > Kenobi and Maul

Maul is closer to Kit Fisto than he is to Sidious. We all saw what happened to Fisto in ROTS. When Sidious is serious, standard Maul gets ragdolled and blitzed.

The fight could go either way, but I would side with the team for the slight majority. Savage probably dies in the fight, but Maul and Dooku are both good enough to hold their own for a bit, and Maul was only really ragdolled after he was on one knee panting.

That was Anakin who wasn't even amping himself. As it stated that Anakin in the novels are Yoda and ROTS Sidious tier. regardless, Sidious was already scared of Dooku+Ventress team up against him, adding maul and replacing Ventress with oppress is a win for the team.

Sid wrecks.

@mygod000: Sidious being afraid of Dooku+Ventress doesnt really indicate that they would win in an outright duel. Sidious was also afraid to fight Yoda but he won. He just isnt going to take an unnecessary risk, and Ventress outlived her usefulness to him.

If Dooku+Ventress was really enough to defeat Sidious, why would Dooku agree and try to kill Ventress. Why wouldnt he just Overthrow Sids lmao.

Dooku is demonstraitably lower than Sids, and the margin isnt close. Writer statements placing Anakin on Yoda/Sidious tier are nice for him, but dont mean anything if he doesnt have feats to back it up, and he really doesnt. Even if he did, Anakin defeated Dooku before he was even in his Prime, during TCW.

Facts:

-Yoda sends Obi Wan to defeat Anakin I.e: Confidence that he is not required

-Anakin cannot break Obi Wan’s Soresu

-Anakin cant keep up with Mace/Sids Duel

Statements:

Sidious: “Lord Vader WILL become more powerful than either of us”

Yoda: “Faith in your new apprentice, misplaced may be”

The evidence supports Anakin being below them more than it supports them being peers.

I dont see Sidious taking on his two second best apprentice Sith lords at their peak and a powerful darkside opponent in Savage at the same time.

He loses this one for a big majority.