Count Dooku & Obi-Wan Kenobi VS Darth Sidious

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Kaore

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Aboard the Invisible Hand, Dooku is able to quickly incapacitate Anakin early in their duel, and break away from Obi-Wan.

He quickly reveals everything about Palpatine being Sith & planning to turn Anakin, and Kenobi believes him. They turn to the Chancellor, prepared to destroy him.

Sidious frees himself from his holo-chair, and calls Anakin's lightsaber to his hand to defend himself.

Rules:

RoTS Prime for all characters, peak mindsets.

No BFR.

Battle takes place on the Invisible Hand.

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Ieatnettles

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Rots prime? Lol obi wan solo stomps

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deactivated-666046b017abe

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Rots prime as in pre order 66 or post order 66?

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Greysentinel365

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Duo.

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Kaore

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@agmine570: Both, I guess. I don't see a big difference between the two

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nassergrant19

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Eisenfauste

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Sheev would poop on Kenobi.

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Supreme101

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Duo possibly

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Keenko

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My heart says the duo, my brain says the Emperor.

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Ieatnettles

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#10  Edited By Ieatnettles

@keenko: @supreme101: rots prime obi wan is mfk, who is way above pre 66 sidious and dooku, as he matched mfv

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@ieatnettles said:

Rots prime? Lol obi wan solo stomps

@ieatnettles said:

@keenko: @supreme101: rots prime obi wan is mfk, who is way above pre 66 sidious and dooku, as he matched mfv

You know, if you've adopted a line of reasoning that leads you to the conclusion that Obi-Wan Kenobi "solo stomps" Darth Sidious, perhaps it may prove beneficial to reevaluate your approach. Do you truly think that any of the creators responsible for the various sources presumably being connected in support of this alleged scaling chain would agree with that assessment?

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Lord_Tenebrous

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That's a pretty interesting scenario. On the one hand, Count Dooku seems to have been confident in their ability to destroy Lord Sidous as a combined force since Attack of the Clones -- a reasonable assessment, of course, for Obi-Wan Kenobi is an exceptionally capable Jedi Master, a powerful challenger against the other Dark Lords, such as Darth Maul and Lord Vader. We have seen the elder Count demonstrate his ultimate mastery over the dark side against Grand Master Yoda, as well as his elegant skill in the old style of lightsaber dueling, with which he is reputedly without equal. Together, these men would be all but unstoppable -- but one could have said the same of the elite team who'd attempted to arrest Lord Sidious on Coruscant. There is no Sith Lord as deadly as the Emperor -- Darth Tyranus and Master Kenobi could prevail, but Darth Sidious is similarly capable of getting the better of his opponents, one way or another. Perhaps the ranking Dark Lord's alleged vulnerability to duos such as Lord Maul and Ahsoka Tano, or Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker, may indicate that his challengers here could win a majority of rounds -- six out of ten, possibly.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Count Dooku and Obi-Wan Kenobi as a team is always great. If nothing else, they're certainly the most civilized -- perhaps their joined rapier wits may irk the Emperor into slipping up.

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Kaore

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#14  Edited By Kaore

@lord_tenebrous: @ieatnettles: @nassergrant19:

I hope you'll forgive me debating in my own thread, but Tenebrous touched on something that's really felt weird about debates on this site for a while.

Looking at RoTS, Yoda in no implicit terms tells Obi-Wan that he cannot fight the Emperor alone directly because he is not strong enough. Due to this, he is sent to fight the apprentice, Vader.

When they show the Senate & Mustafar duels intertwined, Yoda & Palpatine are clearly portrayed as more powerful fighters; they're hurling huge senate pods around with ease, contrasted with the (relatively) more grounded swordplay of Obi-Wan and Anakin.

It couldn't really be clearer that Obi-Wan by himself isn't on the level of Sidious. I don't get how cherry-picking specific (and often outlier) feats from various mediums to create a wonky chain inconsistent with the portrayals of the characters in most of their appearances is more convincing than the primary sources.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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macattack1

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Sidious takes out Kenobi with the force quickly (like Dooku did), then mid diffs Dooku.

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Keenko

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You know, if you've adopted a line of reasoning that leads you to the conclusion that Obi-Wan Kenobi "solo stomps" Darth Sidious, perhaps it may prove beneficial to reevaluate your approach. Do you truly think that any of the creators responsible for the various sources presumably being connected in support of this alleged scaling chain would agree with that assessment?

too many big words, obiwan solos

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CatMan6

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@ieatnettles said:

Rots prime? Lol obi wan solo stomps

lmao Kenobi is not even close to stomping. He may not even win

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Ieatnettles

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@catman6: mfk is rots titan tier. Pre 66 sidious is definitely not rots titan tier.

Mfv=mfk>zonanakin>>>dooku≤pre 66 sidious

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thenamelessone

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#20  Edited By thenamelessone

@kaore: Kenobi cannot beat Sidious after Darkside had ascended and Sidious got a boost every single time a Jedi died, the Darkside kept becoming stronger and stronger to the point where Kenobi was no longer a peer.

however, Before Dark-Side Ascendence, Sidious~Anakin~Dooku~Mace, all 4 are perfectly on the same level, if you've Kenobi>>Dooku (which you should in canon), then by extension Kenobi is above that tier entirely while still inferior to the ascended version of Sidious.

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Kaore

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@thenamelessone: I definitely don't buy "Kenobi >> Dooku", when Obi-Wan has never once shown any level of dominance over him. Usually, their fights are quite competitive, but if anyone holds an edge, its Tyranus.

I also don't buy Ani/Mace/Palps/Dooku all being "perfectly on the same level" whatsoever. These characters aren't Top Trumps cards, so even if they're peers, they cannot be equals. Even the literal clones in Star Wars aren't mirror images as combatants.

The dark side certainly got stronger over the course of the prequels, with Mace & Yoda recognising their ability to sense the future had diminished, and Maul in TCW noting that the dark side had never seemed stronger, but how have you quantifying the growth in power? He certainly doesn't seem that much stronger in his fight against Yoda versus his fights with Mace and Maul & Savage.

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thenamelessone

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@kaore: Tyranus always slapped down Kenobi but on Invisible Hand, as we saw, Tyranus was overpowered and flattened in thirteen-seconds-flat by Zonakin, Knightfall Vader is just Zonakin but even more evil and moralless, and Mustafar Vader is Anakin drowned in evil to the point he achieved yellow eyes, more or less, I cannot really see a world where Mustafar Vader and Tyranus have a fight and Vader doesn't hammer him in 10-11 seconds flat, comparetively Kenobi goes blow-for-blow, stroke for stroke and even stalemates his force push at one point, this is reaffirmed by a stronger Vader a decade later still having his hands full with MFK in swordfighting.

more or less, I don't see Tyranus doing anything to Kenobi on Mustafar, the strength, power and even skill gaps are too big at this point in time for anything to truly be done.

they're not equal, but Sidious states Anakin is almost as powerful as him and Yoda stats Anakin is more powerful than Mace, who is clearly on Sidious's level, and Tyranus has a long duel with Anakin and has the upper hand if anything, so more or less, all four are amazing matches and tough opponents for each other, that's what I meant by my previous statement.

The general scale, before Dark-Side Ascendence Sidious is rivaled by Mace and Jedi Anakin, after the ascendence he is stronger than/relative to Knightfall Vader, to keep up with Anakin who grew vastly from the landing on invisible hand to the Mustafar balcony, Sidious must have gotten boosts as well.

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G_Race

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#24  Edited By G_Race

At this stage I dont see it. Sheev Palpatine force abuses Kenobi eary & takes Dooku down in a combination of suprisingly apt saber use + speed + force mastery. It likely drags out for some time but Dooku goes down too. Not saying the duo cant win ever, but its my view that depends on how long Kenobi stays relevant in the fight. I mean ROTS Dooku force throws him under a walk way before bringing it down in about a minute.