Good point, but Cap still failed to react to the Chitauri blasts. Quicksilver statued him but was still tracked by Thor.
Cap reacted to the Chitauri blasts in the building when they were actually in sight. QS perceived Thor as practically motionless at least twice off the top of my head....not only that but Cap has much better feats.
Thor wankers could probably take over turning the table and place it on some super high pedestal of strength.
That table is solid gold, and is pretty big. MCU Cap couldn't lift it and MCU Cap is TOAA, so I don't know what super tiny pedestal you are assuming it belongs to.
As for the Chitauri blast, he still failed. Thor reacts several times right afterwards. The intent is obvious.
QS is faster than Thor, and the intent is quite obvious for the reaction speed. You think Thor is incapable of arrow timing, but it really doesn't matter, because Cap had it in sight. See the above image.
@rajjarsalt: can Thor intercept a blast after it’s fired when he was nowhere near the target?
Seems like an issue of travel speed for Thor. Are you asking with Mjolnir or the shield? Because the shield has a much greater SA, which makes it much easier to repel attacks. Thor's deflected the Chitauri sceptre from point blank range, too. I think Thor should, based on his previous feats.
I feel like Loki had been pointing that sceptre for a bit, though. I'll recheck. But it's easy to tell that Cap was in active movement before Loki fired. He didn't just port there.
Seems like an issue of travel speed for Thor. Are you asking with Mjolnir or the shield? Because the shield has a much greater SA, which makes it much easier to repel attacks. Thor's deflected the Chitauri sceptre from point blank range, too. I think Thor should, based on his previous feats.
I feel like Loki had been pointing that sceptre for a bit, though. I'll recheck. But it's easy to tell that Cap was in active movement before Loki fired. He didn't just port there.
my point is that cap closes the distance & guarded a shot which are as fast as chitauri blasts, so this debunks the notion that he can’t react to blasters
not to mention repulsors >>
and cap reacted to those, which btw, Thor didn’t
main point, all the avengers are = in ”muh combat speed”
Update: Loki was pointing the sceptre for nearly 3 seconds to fire it. Thor's feat shouldn't be worse, atleast.
Independently, there's a split second between it contacting with the shield. It hasn't accelerated much at all, so you are hyping it a bit.
How am I hyping anything? What was incorrect about my original statement? was cap on the ground before the shot was fired? Did he intercept it?
The problem is that the sceptre doesn't have good initial velocity. Its acceleration rate seems to increase as it goes, as seen when it goes to cloud level. My point was that it isn't that useful in comparison due to the situational factors.
I grant that Cap intercepted the shot and I grant him being in the air before the shot was fired, but:
1. Cap wasn't on the ground for barely any times. Whedon script says he dives just in time for the interception as the beam shoots out. Take that as you will.
2. Cap doesn't have travel speed, which means he'd have to be ridiculously close to the scene to intercept the blast.
3. Loki took a couple seconds before he fired. Cap would have likely seen this, which would have prompted him to intercept. In any case, this is like an aim dodge, but even easier to block.
4. Cap has a big shield. He has to do less work than Thor to successfully repel shots, since his warding defense covers way more surface area. Where Thor twists around his arm, Cap merely needs to raise his arm up.
5. Cap basically jumped in the way of that shot. He didn't actually intercept it between the firing time and the time it reached the shield. The proof extends to the point that he arrives on the visual screen as it is about to fire, and intercepts it before it lands. This means he was in motion before the beam actually fired, which makes sense, considering his vertical line of motion.
Seems like an issue of travel speed for Thor. Are you asking with Mjolnir or the shield? Because the shield has a much greater SA, which makes it much easier to repel attacks. Thor's deflected the Chitauri sceptre from point blank range, too. I think Thor should, based on his previous feats.
I feel like Loki had been pointing that sceptre for a bit, though. I'll recheck. But it's easy to tell that Cap was in active movement before Loki fired. He didn't just port there.
my point is that cap closes the distance & guarded a shot which are as fast as chitauri blasts, so this debunks the notion that he can’t react to blasters
not to mention repulsors >>
and cap reacted to those, which btw, Thor didn’t
main point, all the avengers are = in ”muh combat speed”
Can you prove that the sceptre blasts are fast as Chitauri blasts? Can you prove the distance is too much to close for Thor? I don't think you can prove both for the spectre, especially with what I've presented above.
"Guarding a shot" doesn't mean anything. It's not even a proper reaction feat. Give him a toy Mjolnir and see if he'll react to it. A shield makes it extremely unfair to Thor, but I don't see you accounting for this at all.
If you are using repulsors as an anti-feat for Thor (ignoring Thor getting weakened by his port method), it's perfectly ok for me to rag on Cap with that anti-feat. Independently, Thor has the reaction feats to deflect repulsors, so utilizing external feats is also legit in debunking anti-feats, since that is also what you are doing. In any case, Thor reacted to the blasts far better than Cap did, and this was shown right after Cap failed. Seems coincidental, or no?
Independently, why would Thor have to react to things that couldn't even hurt him? Are we gonna rag on him for not reacting to the Destroyer explosion, even when he was capable of deflecting its blasts and no-selling something far more potent than Stark's repulsors?
@rajjarsalt: Cap doesn't have travel speed, which means he'd have to be ridiculously close to the scene to intercept the blast.
are you saying Thor runs faster?
Cap has a big shield. He has to do less work than Thor to successfully repel shots, since his warding defense covers way more surface area. Where Thor twists around his arm, Cap merely needs to raise his arm up.
doesnt change the speed needed to move his arm after the shot is fired, which is what we’re talking about. Not precision
Can you prove that they are fast as Chitauri blasts? Can you prove the distance is too much to close for Thor?
i can prove the scepter blasts are supersonic, can you quantify the chitauri blasts without scaling?
"Guarding a shot" doesn't mean anything. It's not even a proper reaction feat. Give him a toy Mjolnir and see if he'll block it,
so you’re saying cap didn’t react to the blast?
If you are using repulsors as an anti-feat for Thor (ignoring Thor getting weakened by his port method), it's perfectly ok for me to rag on Cap with that anti-feat. Independently, Thor has the reaction feats to deflect repulsors, so utilizing external feats is also legit in debunking anti-feats, since that is what you are doing. In any case, Thor reacted to the blasts far better than Cap did, and this was shown right after Cap failed. Seems coincidental, or no?
so Thor was weakened for the repulsors but not the chitauri blasts? Now THAT seems coincidental
not to mention I’ve already went over this with you that cap want properly ready for that blast. He literally was just fighting another chitauri off, turns his head and gets shot. Can you prove he had the same time to react as Thor?
Independently, why would Thor have to react to things that couldn't even hurt him? Are we gonna rag on him for not reacting to the Destroyer explosion, even when he was capable of deflecting its blasts and no-selling something far more potent than Stark's repulsors?
so now you’re arguing that chitauri blasts >>> repulsors? I suppose those bullets he was afraid of are also superior to repulsors too, huh?
Not my arg, I'm saying Cap was already close to the scene.
doesnt change the speed needed to move his arm after the shot is fired, which is what we’re talking about. Not precision
The shield means there isn't that much precision involved. His hand is already accelerating down with his body. He is already in motion before the shot. Is he even looking at the blast during this reaction feat, or is he just moving the shield in its general firing direction? I think 0.25x speed answers that.
i can prove the scepter blasts are supersonic, can you quantify the chitauri blasts without scaling?
I don't know if I can, but I'd bet the Chitauri tech in A2 is similar to them. What I meant to say was, can you prove that the scepter blasts are supersonic within relevance, not supersonic given time and acceleration?
so you’re saying cap didn’t react to the blast?
I'm saying it didn't take as much effort as Thor's reaction feats with the hammer. I'm also saying that there is a lot of room and time that Cap had, which makes it less useful.
Also, refer to Cap's head as he dives. Seems like he saw it coming and was prepared.
so Thor was weakened for the repulsors but not the chitauri blasts? Now THAT seems coincidental
Canon wise the scenes are right next to each other. I think it's obvious, considering that Iron Man is able to take Thor, and Loki seals the deal with a single line.
not to mention I’ve already went over this with you that cap want properly ready for that blast. He literally was just fighting another chitauri off, turns his head and gets shot. Can you prove he had the same time to react as Thor?
I posted a screenshot to this thread of his line of sight being toward the Chitauri in front of him. Thor had less time to react, considering he's reacting to consecutive shots. So yeah, I think I can.
Way to be considerate to Cap, though.
so now you’re arguing that chitauri blasts >>> repulsors? I suppose those bullets he was afraid of are also superior to repulsors too, huh?
Bruh, IIRC those are 25x137mm bullets, those actually could do something, and something is out of bounds for IMs repulsors. 30x173mm is enough to stagger Kryptonians.
I'm saying, why does Thor not bothering to block matter when he immediately recovers from it? Do you use that train crash as an anti-feat for DCEU Superman? I'm only using the same "use external feats to disprove an anti-feat" logic you are using to disprove Cap's anti-feat.
Plus, I challenge you to point out where I said that chitauri blasts >>> repulsors. In any case, I've already said the intent seems obvious to give Thor a good, relative reaction speed feat. All I'm saying is, him not reacting to objects doesn't mean he is incapable of reacting to them, especially when they aren't actually hurting him. As I showed by referencing the Destroyer scene, which has energies that >>> Stark and Chitauri and reaction feats to boot.
@rajjarsalt the order is off but show me how you consider this timing
and why are you holding on to cap getting hit when he’s already reacted to those blasts?
I could ask you the same thing. Why do you consider that a reaction feat? Moving perpendicularly happens all the time.
Loading Video...
Now what I just did may not be really legitimate, but here's enough.
Seems like someone saw the Chitauri aim and was jumping before they fired. Hmm.
Why hold on to the belief that Thor would still get tagged by repulsors when he's reacted to high-speed projectiles, reacted to one of the blasts that Cap reacted to, and consistently reacted to Chitauri blasts?
As for the Thor vid, I see your point, but I'm pretty sure the left repulsor blast wasn't intentionally supposed to miss. I'd consider Thor timing the first shot for that reason. Like there's nothing really ambiguous besides Hemsworth's movement - it's like Thanos dodging that last Mjolnir throw even though Mjolnir doesn't really fly towards Thanos's head. There is alot of ambiguity for Cap, because the off-screen and the nature of the weapons/wielders he is reacting to is in question. I feel like it is valid for you to deny me since Hemsworth didn't technically move till the repulsor blast passed his shoulder, but I'd question the validity of the feats you've provided on the same grounds. But I concede on the frames and slow mo. Choreography wise, it seems like Thor was supposed to outpace it, because otherwise, it would have tagged him.
I'll concede that Cap can aim dodge the Chitauri blasts, though.
@money_brings_happiness: What’s your main avengers roster? Outside of Carol no avengers is giving Clark a contest not due to power but his speed is far to insane.
OT Avengers stomp this Only factors for JLA is clark and flash. Diana gets bombarded by the iron family or crushed by Wanda since she can’t speed blitz.
Batman fodder, Arthur has good durability but gets dogpiled by Giant man worthy cap,
Cybord fodder,
Flash can kill the humans but is to inexperienced,
Clark gets ganged upon by Carol, Thor, Hulk, strange, and who’s ever left.
@allhellkingdox: My main avengers roster as of endgame consist of
Captain Marvel
Thor
Hulk
Ant man
Worth Cap
Ironman
Scarlet Witch
Wasp
Rescue
War Machine
Falcon
Winter soldier
Black Widow
Nebula
Gamora
Drax
Rocket Racoon
Groot
Black Panther
Star lord
Those are my avengers as of endgame. I am also on the fence with Okoye. As for the actual fight Aquaman,Cyborg, and Batman aren't going to last long. Aquaman has good durability but Antman and Worthy Cap can get past it and WW is going to get bombarded by the Iron family and her weakness to bullets is likely to get exploited and flash while virtually untouchable is inexperienced and will likely mess up and get taken down by Wanda or maybe blasted from behind from Star lord.
And Superman is getting dogpiled by the high tiers.
Nah. Supes and Diana are still too fast. All their big hitters like Thor, Hulk, Cap Marvel would die to Supes and Diana. Unless Strange pulls out something, Avengers aren't winning without speed being equalised.
Hell, Wonder Woman is too fast. She's better than Quicksilver, who statued all Avengers.
Also Flash is too fast... And no, he doesn't lack damage at all. He can literally punch so hard people get pulverized into pixels.
So as much as I hate to say it, Avengers still get their asses handed to them. The lack of super speed in MCU definitely works in their favor when it comes to balancing power and characters, but it makes them pretty much fodder to characters from other universes who actually use large amounts of super speed. Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, all have potential to take out 90% of all Avengers in under a second, including Strange, before he can cast half a spell. This isn't even close.
As for Captain Marvel, she can't do much, she won't make a difference. She has relativistic travel speed, but when it comes to her reflexes, she didn't show us anything on the JL scale at all. Yeah she may be pretty durable against energy and blunt force, but Wonder Woman just cuts Carol's head off, and that's how it ends tbh.
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