Cosmic Armor Superman vs. Pre-retcon Beyonder

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#201 Posted by etriel (672 posts) - - Show Bio

@etriel: Wasn't The Marvel Multiverse supposed to be something like this according to Above All Others?(except one reality at a time)

sure it is.

doesnt mean it applies to the Marvel Multiverse during Pre-Retcon Beyonder.

why would we scale a current version of Marvel's Multiverse, to Pre-Retcon Beyonder? when the current Multiverse of Marvel insinuates a radical alternative interpretation of the Secret Wars events in which all of Beyonder's feats were deemed fake conspiracies?

in DC this is fine because nearly all main writers encourage a Composite-DC but Marvel? no.

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#202 Posted by MichaelJulius (1647 posts) - - Show Bio

Both combatants have infinite control over Physics. I believe that is where the divide occurs on the subject of Monitors, the oppositions inability to accept that The Beyonder loses to the Cosmic Armor, but, still retains infinite control over particle physics. Losing to the Cosmic Armor does not force any deviation from a deliniation of who and what The Beyonder is. The Cosmic Armor pulls ahead of The Beyonder in other manners of combat, power subsets that The Beyonder doesn't have, has never showcased, or even come close to being able to accomplish. The Meta argument was excluded in everything I just typed, even before any talks of Meta, the Cosmic Armor still has better feats than The Beyonder to the point that he has no chance of even remotely standing a chance.

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#203 Posted by OwenZane (78 posts) - - Show Bio

Thot Robot easily

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#204 Edited by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@yasindermann:

Now explain me how everything capable of dying is always inferior to the Beyonder? Beyonder got destroyed by an multiversal attack.

And Thought Robot got destroyed by mere punches.

And also, a street level character cannot defeat a multiversal buster, because the street level character is immortal and the multiversal character is capable of dying.

Has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

You simply say ''irrelevant'' with no reasoning why Beyonder is able to exploit that scenario or why it even is that way. And you say I don't use feats?

I say irrelevant because Beyonder would blink superman out of existence before his able to do anything. Thought Robot got destroyed by mere punches.

And also, Mandrakk and Thought Robot fought via narrative manipulation and not lame physical fighting.

No they didn't and its not a feat. It's another one of those bogus "Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees" classifications as if it somehow makes the individual not get blinked from existence. Did he come out and beat up the writer? Nope. Did he interact with the writer like bugs bunny? Nope. That means its fan wank. Beyonder wouldn't be fighting physically, he'd just blink thought robot out of existence.

So no, Beyonder still doesn't have feats of damaging something so deep in metaphysics deep like the Thought Robot. That's how feats truly work. You have to show that you can do that or that.

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He got damaged by mere punches from Mandrakk. Beyonder easily blinks him.

If you don't accept my interpretation of multiversal debates, Thought Robot is far surperior in the cosmology department too.

Thought robot got beat to a pulp and literally fell to death. Anything that can do this is nothing in comparison to the Beyonder, who blinks him out of existence.

But we brought legit feats and arguments.

Yeah because "Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees"= legit arguments.

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#205 Posted by Supermanfan1938 (1055 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman one shots

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#206 Edited by MichaelJulius (1647 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: Making up your own version of events doesn't fly anymore on the issue of Final Crisis. You could get away with this a few years ago, but not anymore. Maybe 4 or 5 individuals on Comicvine would agree with you on this.

Mandrakk and Monitors consume fictions. The Empty Hand ate his own fictive comic book he was published it and traveled the Overvoid to land in DC Comics, where he met a Monitor and couldnt win without corrupting him first. Your entire post is null and void, based on subjectivity without a single scan to prove even one word you typed. If Beyonder wants to try to go toe to toe with CAS, he needs to become Marvel comics in a literal sense and even then, that puts him on par with The Empty Hand, who is God to Grant Morrison, and who still cannot touch Monitors.

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#207 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanfan1938:

CAS manipulated the narrative so he basically made Morrison write it so he beats Mandrakk.

No he didn't. There is absolute no mention or proof of that except fan assumptions. In fact he physically fought Mandrakk and then fell to death. Anything that needs to physically fight and then can be killed by height is auto-blinked by Beyonder.

He doesnt need to come out of the comic book thats a fodder feat that the likes of Deadpool can do. Hes made of thought and is too abstract for Beyonder

Beyonder can easily wipe the mind of every thing in the universe where this fight would be taking place in, thus wiping out the thoughts and CAS.

Lol so you're saying that baseless fan assumptions and fan made bogus like "Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees">> clear cut fourth wall breaking and audience interaction? Deadpool has talked to the audience and appeared in real life ads and displayed clear real world knowledge (like Green Lantern) which means he auto godstomps CAS because that too should be classified as a feat, in fact its more reliable as a feat then anything CAS has ever done.

Only fanboys can actually attribute the "hero always wins" formula as a feat. Until I see a scan of thought robot talking to the writer explicitly as Deadpool, bugs bunny etc etc did he gets blinked by Beyonder.

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#208 Posted by DC1008 (407 posts) - - Show Bio

Cas one shots

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#209 Edited by Supermanfan1938 (1055 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: Deadpool is fodder. And it's not assumptions, Morrison is writing the story, writes that Superman is changing the hyperstory and wins in the end, the idea of Superman (The hero always saves the day, grows stronger opposed to the villain) obviously made him write it like that. Deadpool is a joke character with no real meta influence or importance as Superman does. Morrison obviously thinks Superman is a concept that's bigger than us and in his Supergods book admits to such. He believes Superman is real and larger than life and much more than a 2 dimensional character on a piece of paper, and that Grant and Waid actually met a guy cosplaying as Superman which inspired them to write drafts for Superman 2000 which later was recycled for Grant's All-Star Superman.

You can't get more meta than that when Superman is influencing Grant and not the other way round. Authorial intent is important. Deadpool on the otherhand is Squirrel girl levels of meme but really is still being written as some character on a page.

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#210 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@etriel:

lmfao.

> Actually thinking that CAS is a physical being when it is literally stated that he is pure thought. In a realm that is beyond a realm that is beyond Space-Time.

more lies.

Doesn't matter Beyonder blinks every single thing in the reality that this fights takes place in thus blinking CAS out of existence along with every single thing that ever "thought" about him. "Lmfao".

TR Superman does have feats. He held limbo in his hand which contains realms that are bigger than a Universe. It is not baseless fanboy assumptions. The DC Multiverse map literally tells you that the Monitors are above the Multiverse by infinity over infinity over infinity degrees.

"More lies"

"infinity degrees"

Sounds like gibberish. Another one of those "Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees" that means nothing. That's irrelevant it won't matter what his holding in his hand when Beyonder blinks him. TR superman got damaged by mere punches and then fell to his death. Anything that can die from falling gets blinked easily. So no, it is baseless fanboy assumptions.

"The DC Multiverse map literally tells you that the Monitors are above the Multiverse by infinity over infinity over infinity degrees"

Doesn't matter what the DC multiverse map says. This battle isn't about the featless monitors first of and second of all it doesn't say "infinity over infinity degrees" anywhere that I can see, more nonsense fanboy gibberish.

What Beyonder feat?

Beyonder has barely any feats. His best feat was destroying the planets and solar systems inside a Multiverse, but he never erased the entire space-time universes that contained those planets/solar systems.

And "shook" a Multiverse while struggled to fight a molecule manipulator.

And he scaled to a Multiverse that did not even multiply/instantly multiply itself into Infinity.

As if Thought Robot is loaded with feats, the only feat I can remember of him is him getting physically punched and beaten to a pulp by Mandrakk and then falling to his death. Beyonder was too powerful to even fit in the multiverse. Thought Robot gets blinked.

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#211 Edited by zgtfreak (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: He got damaged by mere punches from Mandrakk. Beyonder easily blinks him.

Why do you assume that all punches are purely physical? A punch from a being made up solely of concepts, imagination, ect, is clearly not just physical due to it being a punch. How can it be a physical punch if the entity throwing out said punch doesn't even exist on a conventional physical level? Not all punches are physical just because they are punches. By this logic, Beyonder is a physical being since he takes the shape of a human.

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#213 Edited by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: Oh my god. The only reason why CAS got destroyed by mere punches is because his other equal powerful side Mandrakk damaged him beyond repair. You still didn't show that Beyonder can exploit that scenario. You simply said: ''MUH! IF MANDRAKK CAN DO, THEN BEYONDER CAN TOO!'' with no reasoning behind it. There is physical fighting in fiction which is not physical fighting, but rather physical fighting powered by imagination and concepts. It was a fight between narrative vs narrative between thought robot and Mandrakk, not lame physical fighting. Beyonder still cannot exploit that scenario or dodge narrative hax, since he has not shown it. It's easy. Thought Robot is based on platonism, a state of meta-existence, which makes him an archetypal, absolute and immovable object. Again, Beyonder never has dealt with something like that.

Not to mention that I didn't say Thought Robot can jump out of the comic book and beat the writer. My argument was different. So, you still didn't refute my arguments on an intellectual and factual basis. Thought Robot has narrative hax, something Beyonder has never dealt with. It isn't fan wank. Calling it fan wank is not a solid argument, since Thought Robot literally has shown narrative manipulation and being a narrative on-panel. You just cannot accept new ideas.

You literally said that Beyonder can blink thought robot out of existence without reasoning.

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How is CAS affected by physics, when his body is made out of pure thought whoexist on an level of existence where physics don't exist?

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#214 Posted by MichaelJulius (1647 posts) - - Show Bio

There is no point in arguing or debating if someone can read Superman Beyond and totally miss all the plentiful statements made about how there is nothing physical, no physics and no space or reality in Limbo, let alone Nil. If he thinks the punches were real and of a nonconceptual nature of two concepts doing battle, let them.

Beyonder got drunk and almost got permanently stuck in drunken hell forever by Dr.Strange. So just use the same nonsense argument back in that case. If Cosmic Armor is hurt by punching, then Beyonders weakness is altering reality to be a cloud of alcohol he can't not absorb.

That's the same level of naive debating I think. Seems fair to me.

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#215 Edited by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanfan1938:

Deadpool is fodder.

Thought Robot is also fodder in that case. Movie version of Deadpool finds the comic book and rips it apart, and godstomps by default. Right?

And it's not assumptions, Morrison is writing the story, writes that Superman is changing the hyperstory and wins in the end, the idea of Superman (The hero always saves the day, grows stronger opposed to the villain) obviously made him write it like that.

Wheres the clear cut scans of that? In that case Deadpool and Bugs bunny interacting with the audience, writers, displaying real world knowledge also=feats, and since those are also feats deadpool and bugs bunny godstomp CA superman by default

Deadpool is a joke character with no real meta influence or importance as Superman does.

Not true. Cinematic performances tell a different story.

Morrison obviously thinks Superman is a concept that's bigger than us and in his Supergods book admits to such. He believes Superman is real and larger than life and much more than a 2 dimensional character on a piece of paper, and that Grant and Waid actually met a guy cosplaying as Superman which inspired them to write drafts for Superman 2000 which later was recycled for Grant's All-Star Superman.

What difference does that make though? Morrison isn't law in the real world first off and second of all Loebb Force Hulk could probably beat Thought Robot in that case too, in fact at least Deadpool and Bugs bunny have clear cut feats of real world interaction in which case they both would stomp the entire DC universe including Thought robot.

You can't get more meta than that when Superman is influencing Grant and not the other way round. Authorial intent is important. Deadpool on the otherhand is Squirrel girl levels of meme but really is still being written as some character on a page.

It's not meta at all Justice Leagues weak performance compared to Deadpool 2 can also be dreamed up as some sort of feat in this case too... Lets see; Deadpool 2 made more money then Justice League (with superman)=More people like Deadpool then superman and WAY more then Thought Robot= Deadpool godstomps CA superman. In fact Deadpool has talked to the audience displayed knowledge of the real life actor (green lantern) which= auto godstomps. Bugs Bunny has written his own story which tells you the same thing.

You can't call one thing fodder and another think some kind of "feat". In fact Deadpool and squirrel girl have shown fourth wall breaking feats way better then Thought Robot ever has. Whatever Grant and CA did can also be chalked up to fanboy memes.

If Squirrel Girl, Deadpool, bugs bunny can't beat CA superman then CA superman can't beat beyonder full stop.

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#216 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius:

Making up your own version of events doesn't fly anymore on the issue of Final Crisis.

His literally fist fighting Mandrakk on the page, lol.

You could get away with this a few years ago, but not anymore. Maybe 4 or 5 individuals on Comicvine would agree with you on this.

Get away with? The fist fight? Or his death? Or him literally seeping blood?

Mandrakk and Monitors consume fictions. The Empty Hand ate his own fictive comic book he was published it and travelled the Overvoid to land in DC Comics, where he met a Monitor and couldnt win without corrupting him first.

Okay, link me to the comic book published by Mr. Empty Hand, how much did it cost? No? Then its in-universe, Beyonder thought up his own religion.

Your entire post is null and void, based on subjectivity without a single scan to prove even one word you typed.

Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees. "Null and Void". Since I could provide lets see a scan of CAS talking to grant Morrison on the panel about how to write his story. Lets also see a scan where his NOT dying from a bad fall.

If Beyonder wants to try to go toe to toe with CAS, he needs to become Marvel comics in a literal sense and even then,

No he doesn't, Grant Morrison never wrote every single one of DC's comics, CAS isn't DC comics either, his just a overhyped fanwanked featless character.

that puts him on par with The Empty Hand, who is God to Grant Morrison, and who still cannot touch Monitors.

Grant Morrison prays to The Empty Hand? Okay lets see a scan of that too. Until then Beyonder blinks. The fist-battered, bad fall-dying CAS.

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#217 Posted by destinyman75 (15927 posts) - - Show Bio

LMAO people actually think Robot can beat the freaking Beyonder I've seen everything lol

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#218 Posted by MountAcnologia (413 posts) - - Show Bio

LMAO at the people who think Beyonder can beat Thought Robot when they have absolutely no scans to back up their statements.

Online
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#219 Edited by zgtfreak (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: You ignored what I said entirely and didn't reply because it destroyed your physical argument.

@destinyman75 said:

LMAO people actually think Robot can beat the freaking Beyonder I've seen everything lol

Zero counterargument. You're really helping Marvel debaters shine... Beyonder is outdated and loses to most multiversal beings these days.

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#220 Edited by MichaelJulius (1647 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: 6 references in the span of just two issues that say they are concepts battling, thoughts, not actual physical entities. How did you two miss 6 references to this in just a short span of time? There are actually 8 if you include Grant Morrison's interview statements.

@destinyman75 - You know what Limbo is. You are well versed in comics, so you don't have an excuse here to not understand this, with the most respect, you are way better than this and I hold you and a few others to a much higher standard.

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#221 Posted by Tedirey (3081 posts) - - Show Bio

There is no point in arguing or debating if someone can read Superman Beyond and totally miss all the plentiful statements made about how there is nothing physical, no physics and no space or reality in Limbo, let alone Nil. If he thinks the punches were real and of a nonconceptual nature of two concepts doing battle, let them.

Beyonder got drunk and almost got permanently stuck in drunken hell forever by Dr.Strange. So just use the same nonsense argument back in that case. If Cosmic Armor is hurt by punching, then Beyonders weakness is altering reality to be a cloud of alcohol he can't not absorb.

That's the same level of naive debating I think. Seems fair to me.

+1

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#222 Posted by Supermanfan1938 (1055 posts) - - Show Bio

Thought Robot Superman solos no matter what. The concept of Superman is too powerful.

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#223 Posted by destinyman75 (15927 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius: Yes but at the time I was rather busy and couldn't get into depth nor do I see a point in furthering the same argument that's being used on so many if these

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#224 Edited by MichaelJulius (1647 posts) - - Show Bio

The Cosmic Armor is a "Meta Concept" that contains story narratives. Specifically, the story of Superman. Not the character of Superman, the literal story and narrative itself. The very idea of Superman. Mandrakk is Hyperstory.

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The Plot Bot is fighting Hyperstory in a literal sense. Hyperstory is the metaconcept that brings stories that are written by someone to a close, faster than usual. The essential and uncombatableconcept and forumula that makes a story begin and end quickly, is the definition of Hyperstory. He is also the comic page that became sentient and an extension of it. Nothing in the comic book is going to win, it doesn't matter what your powers are of what fiction you are from.

Monitors are Thoughts and Concepts that feed on fictional narratives.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

These Monitors, the ones that eat fictions and the narratives of those characters, were regarded as nothing and were all effortlessly deleted by Mandrakk . Mandrakk can wipe metaconcepts from existence with a wave of his hand. He can delete the concept and entity of pure thought that can feed on Fictions. This is why CAS and Mandrakk are the alphas. Hope that clears things up.

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#225 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@zgtfreak:

You ignored what I said entirely and didn't reply because it destroyed your physical argument.

No not really, I was in the middle of replying until they shut the logins down for maintenance, I had a reply but I'll reword it here:

Why do you assume that all punches are purely physical? A punch from a being made up solely of concepts, imagination, ect, is clearly not just physical due to it being a punch.

Lol yeah right, when he was getting punched up he was showing metal underneath and bleeding, I mean have you ever told a kid Santa doesn't exist and suddenly a a big blog of "soley concepts and imagination" shows up above his head with streaks of metal and bleeding? I sure haven't.

Beyonder blinks and though robots ceases to exist, and so does every single thing in the reality that "imagined" him or thought of him. Lol.

How can it be a physical punch if the entity throwing out said punch doesn't even exist on a conventional physical level?

Irrelevant and it literally means nothing, his bleeding blood and needing to go physical regardless of whatever level he exists on, Beyonder doesn't need to do that he blinks.

Not all punches are physical just because they are punches. By this logic, Beyonder is a physical being since he takes the shape of a human.

That's literally so not the same logic, Beyonder took on the shape of the human because he chose to so he could fit in, TR is FORCED to fight physically, anyone who can stand up to the Beyonder blinks. Fullstop.

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#226 Edited by Transcendlimitless (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: That is the same logic as saying that you're physical, because you give yourself physical shape or that Casper is physical, because he has shape or that mistress death is skeleton level, because she is a skeleton or that any physics transcendor who has physical shape isn't actually non-physical. Cosmic Armour was damaged by his other self, Mandrakk, which is far beyond an physics warping dude that rely's on the concept of energy. They didn't fight on a physics level, they thought on a narrative level. Something that doesn't go in your head.

It was thousand times stated that TR is beyond physical laws and made out of thought. This is where you use your brain.

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#227 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@yasindermann:

Oh my god. The only reason why CAS got destroyed by mere punches is because his other equal powerful side Mandrakk damaged him beyond repair.

Um....Okay, you're point is? Mandrakk damaged him beyond repair by mere punches?

You still didn't show that Beyonder can exploit that scenario. You simply said: ''MUH! IF MANDRAKK CAN DO, THEN BEYONDER CAN TOO!'' with no reasoning behind it. There is physical fighting in fiction which is not physical fighting, but rather physical fighting powered by imagination and concepts.

So a character who is "(He was stated to be an infinite dimensional being, and had thousandsto millions of times greater power than that contained withinan infinite-dimensional multiverse" can't blink a character who died due to a bad fall and literally got punched to death? Lol.

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He does what he did to death and he did here and he shrugs and CA is barred from existence. I also never said that. " Hurr Durr There is physical fighting in fiction which is not physical fighting" What does this even mean, lol? There is a apple but there isn't a apple? Lol isn't every comic "powered by imagination and concepts"? CA was "powered by imagination and concepts" so hard he got punched to a pulp and fell to his death, lol? Why didn't he blink himself a platform? Why didn't he bar himself from dying like Beyonder did? Because he can't and Beyonder blinks. Again.

It was a fight between narrative vs narrative between thought robot and Mandrakk, not lame physical fighting.

Another "Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees". The narrative was that he was to get punched to a pulp before falling to his death bleeding and all thus showing that he is infinitely less durable and weaker then Beyonder. Who again, blinks and its all over for CA.

Beyonder still cannot exploit that scenario or dodge narrative hax, since he has not shown it. It's easy.

1."Narrative hax" sounds silly.

2. Beyonder doesn't need to dodge anything, he B L I N K S. And every version of superman simultaneously vanish. It would also be "easy" as his already shown getting punched to death by mere punches. Lol.

3. Cinematic Deadpool and Bugs Bunny have shown far more then "Narrative hax" which means they godstomp CA superman. Right?

Thought Robot is based on platonism, a state of meta-existence, which makes him an archetypal, absolute and immovable object. Again, Beyonder never has dealt with something like that.

1. Archetypal, absolute and immovable object who got punched to a pulp, bled, and fell to his death, lol even the juggernaut has better showings of durability.

2. Lets see the explicit scans stating EXACTLY what you said. Also you're acting like being "archetypal, absolute and immovable object" is impressive in comics, lol? Beyonder is all that and he blinks.

Not to mention that I didn't say Thought Robot can jump out of the comic book and beat the writer. My argument was different.

In which case you don't have a argument that he can step up to the Beyonder. His in universe and thus gets BLINKED. Not to mention CA has shown NOTHING in comparison to the Beyonder for reality warping. In fact he got damaged by mere punches lol, and he died from a mere fall. He bleeds and he got beat so bad he started showing metal for battle damage. Couldn't even heal from that.

So, you still didn't refute my arguments on an intellectual and factual basis.Thought Robot has narrative hax, something Beyonder has never dealt with.


Which "intellectual and factual" arguments, again? You're literally throwing featless gibberish out expecting me to get lost in words and expecting me to believe things like "Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees" is a respectable measure for power. Lmfao. Also so does Loki, doesn't mean he won't get blinked. CA got punched to a pulp and fell to his death which clearly shows his durability, and the fact that he had to physically fight shows his power, which is leagues below Beyonders who blinks. "Narrative hax" means squat until I see a scan of CA crawling out of the comic book and going at it with the writer which characters like Bugs Bunny have explicitly shown. It literally doesn't matter what he has dealt with and what he hasn't lol, he blinks end of CA.

It isn't fan wank. Calling it fan wank is not a solid argument, since Thought Robot literally has shown narrative manipulation and being a narrative on-panel. You just cannot accept new ideas.

It's fan wank when you have to cobble up your own assumptions and made up power levels like "Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees" and act like it matters.

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<-- Okay, lets see the exact equivalent in scans. Lets see him writing the story, or communicating with the actual writer. Or lets see CA directly interacting with the real world readers. Lets see the exact on panel scans then. Lets see the exact scan of him breaking the fourth wall.

Lets see the EXACT scan where CA interacts or manipulates Grant Morrison other Beyonder blinks.

You literally said that Beyonder can blink thought robot out of existence without reasoning.

Thought Robot got punched to a bleeding pulp, he fell to his death, he had to engage in physical fighting what is so hard to understand? Beyonder blinks.

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#228 Edited by Transcendlimitless (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: That's absolutely stupid assuming you're doing right there. A fictional character get's define by hypothetical power levels. A human level character isn't automatically on par with PR Beyonder, because they are both powered by imagination from the author. This is why feats exist.

Infinite-dimensional is literally nothing to TR. Also, something like reality warping from some entities is also not possible, but we accept it, because it's fiction. Narrative hax/story eater hax doesn't have to be 4th wall breaking.

You just one of these guys who say: ''MUHHHHHHH!!!!!! NEW IDEA! DASN'T COUNT!''

Rest was already debunked.

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#229 Posted by Fantaman11 (482 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyond Infinite dimensional doesn't prove to be outerversal. CAS comes from the Monitor Sphere. Realm which perceives the Godsphere ( realm of archetypal powers, platoninc concepts, full of dimensionless realms ) same way as it perceives the creation.

CAS oneshots

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#230 Edited by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius: 6 references in the span of just two issues that say they are concepts battling, thoughts, not actual physical entities. How did you two miss 6 references to this in just a short span of time? There are actually 8 if you include Grant Morrison's interview statements.

No it doesn't say they are concepts battling, it doesn't even show where CA interacts with Grant Morrison on panel. Thoughts that are having to slug it out and pub brawl, thoughts that bleed, thoughts that die from bad falls? They are pure thought, and that matters because? CA superman gets blinked from existence, every single thing in the universe where this fight is taking place and is thinking of CA superman gets blinked from existence. It's irrelevant whether they are pure thought or not CA Superman gets blinked.

You are showing poor and sub-par feats and then loading it to the brim with fan assumptions that have nothing to even do with the feat. Fictions eaten in-universe. Beyonder created a religion, anyone believe in it in the real world? They're not real world fictions which is what CA would need to even stand a bit of a chance against the Beyonder,

"Nothing in the comic book is going to win, it doesn't matter what your powers are of what fiction you are from."

-Shows a feat of eye lasers that is somehow supposed to back it....?-

"I'm in a self-assembling hyperstory"

Okay, Squirrel Girl did that too, doesn't mean she'll be taking the beyonder. In fact the fact that Thought Robots dies from a bad fall at the end crumbles your assumption. It also means its more and easily for Beyonder to blink him out of existence.

Lets see the on-panel feats of him:

1. Wiping out a real world fiction, DBZ or something.

2. Him clearly and explicitly contacting, interacting or "manipulating" Grant Morrison in the panel to change the story. Something like what bugs bunny and Deadpool does like, every other day.

3. Lets see the scan where the "hyperstory" made Grant Morrison stop writing up the actual comic book.

Until then Beyonder blinks by default because its all in-universe. And CA has already displayed bleeding from physical punches, having to fist fight, dying by bad falls etc etc.

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#231 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@transcendlimitless:

That's absolutely stupid assuming you're doing right there. A fictional character get's define by hypothetical power levels. A human level character isn't automatically on par with PR Beyonder, because they are both powered by imagination from the author. This is why feats exist.

1. Yeah not really. I haven't seen a single feat of CA Superman manipulating Grant Morrison on panel yet.

2. A human level character by which I assume you're talking about Deadpool, right? Okay so? Everything in comics is powered by imagination, just what exactly is your point? A character that died from a bad fall and got punched to death isn't automatically on par with PR Beyonder either, lol.

Infinite-dimensional is literally nothing to TR. Also, something like reality warping from some entities is also not possible, but we accept it, because it's fiction. Narrative hax/story eater doesn't have to be 4th wall breaking.

1. That's why he took damage from punches, had to fist fight and died from a bad fall.

2. Lol where's the scan of that?

3. Ummmm where did I say realty warping is possible in the real word? Where did I say its not powered by the imagination of the author?

4. Then its in-universe in which case Beyonder blinks and god stomps.

Btw "story eater" suggests that the character can manipulate and change the real world comic written by the real world writer, in which case it is 4th wall breaking but there's no evidence of that. Which means its in-universe which means Beyonder blinks. Full stop.

You just one of these guys who say: ''MUHHHHHHH!!!!!! NEW IDEA! DASN'T COUNT!''

And you sound like one of those guys who say "Hurr durr Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees means anything".

Rest was already debunked.

CA Superman got punched to a pulp and and died from a bad fall. Beyonder godstomp blink slaughters.

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#232 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@transcendlimitless:

That is the same logic as saying that you're physical, because you give yourself physical shape or that Casper is physical, because he has shape or that mistress death is skeleton level, because she is a skeleton or that any physics transcendor who has physical shape isn't actually non-physical.

Yeaahhhh no not really. Don't really get whatever you're saying on the bottom half either. He was literally fist fighting, bleeding and getting beaten to the pulp by hands, lol. Beyonder blinks in an instant.

Cosmic Armour was damaged by his other self, Mandrakk, which is far beyond an physics warping dude that rely's on the concept of energy. They didn't fight on a physics level, they thought on a narrative level. Something that doesn't go in your head.

His beyond physics warping? So he stop gravity? Yeah wow great the reality warping Beyonder blinks both of them out of existence along with their fist fighting. What the heck is on the concept of energy? Lol. You aren't making any sense. Wheres the scan? All I saw CA Superman and Mandrakk fist fighting and then falling and dying. Everything else is fan assumed and thus irrelevant.

It was thousand times stated that TR is beyond physical laws and made out of thought. This is where you use your brain.

So is Beyonder "beyond physical laws". Doesn't matter if his made out of thought, Beyonder blinks and does 1 or of 2 things (or does both)

1. Wipes the minds of everything that ever thought of CA superman in the reality this is set in, since it isn't declared by the OP we can assume that its a neutral universe and no one will be "thinking" of Superman in which case he wouldn't exist and loses by default.

2. Wipes out everything in the reality along with CA superman. Lol.

Beyonder blinks and mega godstomps CA.

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#233 Posted by zgtfreak (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: Lol yeah right, when he was getting punched up he was showing metal underneath and bleeding

That disproves nothing. Punches, damage, and physical looking attacks can still be metaphysical/non physical. Beyonder was struggling against a physics manipulator (Molecule Man).

@fantaman11 Outerverse is a fake broken term no one uses here. CaS does blink though.

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#234 Edited by MichaelJulius (1647 posts) - - Show Bio

How does one read Superman Beyond (or claim to) and omit all of the references to there being no physics, no reality, and existing outside of the Multiverse? It isn't possible to blunder on this absurd level of information.

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#235 Posted by MountAcnologia (413 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius:

They don't , they're just butthurt that CAS obliterates their favourite Beyonder in an instant and hence are spewing up bullshit.

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#236 Posted by AnnamalHouse (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius: how does one read secret wars and not know the same is true for the Beyonder?!

You acting like that's something special here and is suppose to prove something when it doesn't at all.

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#237 Posted by DetectiveSomerset__ (1529 posts) - - Show Bio

Cosmic solos the verse

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#238 Posted by MichaelJulius (1647 posts) - - Show Bio

Prove it scan by scan for The Beyonder as per every feat listed for Nil Monitors. It should be easy for you. Good luck.

@michaeljulius: how does one read secret wars and not know the same is true for the Beyonder?!

You acting like that's something special here and is suppose to prove something when it doesn't at all.

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#239 Edited by AnnamalHouse (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius:

Huh?! My point was the Beyonder being from a place beyond the multiverse/reality/physics/time/space ect. Addressing your last post.

I know you already know this and has been shown to you before already.

And CA Superman has ONE feat! Fighting mandrakk, that's it.

Being beyond multiverse in and of itself is not a feat!

Seeing limbo from higher dimension is not a feat!

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#240 Edited by MichaelJulius (1647 posts) - - Show Bio

@annamalhouse: The majority of arguments here are based on dimensionality and how far up the chain any given character is. Also, Beyonder almost died from a Multiversal level impact. This is a naive Godling who thinks he is X powerful, but in reality, he isn't. That was the point of the character, he boasts, he brags, he gets almost every piece of data incorrect in his story and you still trust his own word when the character cannot understand basic concepts of good and bad?

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#241 Posted by DetectiveSomerset__ (1529 posts) - - Show Bio

Cosmic Armor Superman

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#242 Posted by MountAcnologia (413 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know how can people say Beyonder is stronger than TR when the word "Retcon" in Beyonder's status speaks for itself that Beyonder is inferior to TR. Thought Robot >> All characters who can be retconned.

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