Cosmic Armor Superman vs. Pre-retcon Beyonder

Avatar image for zgtfreak
#151 Posted by zgtfreak (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, I come here wanting to see a good debate but a shit storm arose. It’s Thor’s fault. Anyway, Beyonder is not on CAS level in terms of scaling

Avatar image for randybutternubs
#152 Posted by RandyButterNubs (1110 posts) - - Show Bio

I've said it before, threads with characters with immeasurable power just like these 2 are pointless.

Avatar image for daywalker98
#153 Posted by DayWalker98 (476 posts) - - Show Bio

@zgtfreak: by chance do you know if there’s a marvel cosmology thread?

Avatar image for zgtfreak
#154 Posted by zgtfreak (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

I've said it before, threads with characters with immeasurable power just like these 2 are pointless.

Nope. This thread is already done. The DC side proved CaS one shots.

@zgtfreak: by chance do you know if there’s a marvel cosmology thread?

There should be some around. I'd look, but I'm currently working on my When They Cry respect thread.

Avatar image for daywalker98
#155 Posted by DayWalker98 (476 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for majinblackheart
#156 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9900 posts) - - Show Bio

First, I'd like to thank everyone for wasting my time here.

Second, there are no alts arguing in this thread. Not alts of each other anyway as far as I can tell.

Third, if you find yourself banned right now it's because you get one karma point for every comment I delete. I deleted every comment that derailed this thread or broke the rules. Once you hit 10 you get a karma ban. Once you are below ten, you can post again. You lose one point a day. Since you now have time on your hands that I didn't, you can add up the posts I deleted and see how long you are banned for.

@yasindermann You get a language and insult warning

@baph You get a insult warning

@norsewinter You get your second language/insult/vulgarity warning almost immediately after I already gave you one in this very thread. This is the last warning for vulgarity you will receive. You've got some time to check out the rules now.

@mrmind You are easily identifiable as a banned user. Sayonara.

Moderator
Avatar image for zgtfreak
#157 Edited by zgtfreak (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: First, I'd like to thank everyone for wasting my time here.

Even though them tagging you is unnecessary, it is kinda your job as a mod. lol

Also I hope you didn't delete any comments vital to the debate (even if they broke the rules). That'd be a bad move.

Avatar image for smoothsanta
#158 Posted by SmoothSanta (2897 posts) - - Show Bio

CAS IS OUTERVERSAL!!!!

Avatar image for zgtfreak
#159 Posted by zgtfreak (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoothsanta: Outerversal is a fake term no one here acknowledges.

Avatar image for smoothsanta
#160 Edited by SmoothSanta (2897 posts) - - Show Bio

@zgtfreak: But he has plot manipulation like writers so he must be....

Avatar image for zgtfreak
#161 Posted by zgtfreak (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoothsanta: That's MichaelJulius wank. Every DC fan here debunks him all the time.

Avatar image for michaeljulius
#162 Edited by MichaelJulius (1649 posts) - - Show Bio

Mywank? You considered The Overvoid the Presence in disguise, so I am not sure what you are really talking about here, considering Dax Novu was The Overvoid in character form. So if you consider Mandrakk and The Cosmic Armor as a part of God, how on Earth are you in this thread supporting Michael > God?

@zgtfreak said:

@smoothsanta: That's MichaelJulius wank. Every DC fan here debunks him all the time.

Online
Avatar image for zgtfreak
#163 Posted by zgtfreak (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaeljulius: Putting words in our mouth we never said. I'm going to ignore you right now.

Avatar image for yasindermann
#164 Posted by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

@zgtfreak said:

@michaeljulius: Putting words in our mouth we never said. I'm going to ignore you right now.

He did that often with me too, when we had debates.

Avatar image for majinblackheart
#165 Edited by MajinBlackheart (9900 posts) - - Show Bio

@zgtfreak said:

@majinblackheart: First, I'd like to thank everyone for wasting my time here.

Even though them tagging you is unnecessary, it is kinda your job as a mod. lol

Also I hope you didn't delete any comments vital to the debate (even if they broke the rules). That'd be a bad move.

Yes, this thread is attracting the finest of debate that is surely leading to breakthroughs in the discussion. The bad move is me allowing it to stay open and the unnecessary tagging is yours.

And don't insult other users.

Moderator
Avatar image for siremystking52
#166 Edited by SireMystKing52 (81 posts) - - Show Bio

@yasindermann:

No I feel like I'm obligated to. Lol there was a time when people with common sense on this site were by themselves. Do you remember the threads with ScathanTheApprover and when he would have to advocate for Mandrakk and Thought Robot against 99 marvel fans? It was horrendous. So we have to stick together man.

Avatar image for syntix
#167 Posted by Syntix (707 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for zgtfreak
#168 Edited by zgtfreak (2982 posts) - - Show Bio

@majinblackheart: Yes, this thread is attracting the finest of debate that is surely leading to breakthroughs in the discussion.

Breakthroughs? No. But the first few post can show others who wins.

and the unnecessary tagging is yours.

This is my first (now second time) tagging you. I never did when the rest did.

And don't insult other users.

Saying that someone is wanking something is not an insult; it is describing the action of someone. Literally no other mod has considered it one. It has been said in front of mods and they ignore it. You've even said before that you aren't a battle forums mod really, so why are you even here? You came here before anyone tagged you and are now warning me for insults that other mods do not acknowledge as one. And to top it all off, you are complaining about getting tagged even though it's your job and you came here first. I'm tagging you again because it is entirely called for this time. If calling someone out for wanking is against the rules (it isn't), then you need to go warn about 70% of users on every thread and tell the other mods. This "Wanking is an insult" thing only comes from you. It's gotten old. No one agrees. The other mods don't take action. Drop it.

I won't continue further here in order to prevent derailing. I have made my point.

Avatar image for siremystking52
#169 Edited by SireMystKing52 (81 posts) - - Show Bio

@syntix:

Yeah let me go find some of them. It might take some time to find the ones with him mainly being the advocator, but I'll eventually find it.

Avatar image for siremystking52
#170 Edited by SireMystKing52 (81 posts) - - Show Bio

@syntix:

This isn't one of the Marvel character ones, but here's a link for a small example of what I'm talking about:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/thought-robot-vs-elder-god-demonbane-1831238/

Unfortunately I think he quit comic vine (probs due to being one of the only competent and open-minded people on the site at the time), but on the bright side many of us can see that at least someone tried in the past.

Avatar image for syntix
#171 Posted by Syntix (707 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for majinblackheart
#172 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9900 posts) - - Show Bio

@zgtfreak:

Saying that someone is wanking something is not an insult; it is describing the action of someone.

If you don't know what the term means, look it up. Calling someone a wanker is an insult. Saying they wank something is an insult. When you refer to someone in particular doing this, it is insulting. There's no argument to be made.

Literally no other mod has considered it one. It has been said in front of mods and they ignore it.

I guess that is their choice if they want to be lenient. I've been a mod longer than pretty much all of them and I don't follow any pack.

You've even said before that you aren't a battle forums mod really, so why are you even here?

It's my job, remember?

And to top it all off, you are complaining about getting tagged even though it's your job and you came here first.

My tongue in cheek complaint is over a bunch of users having an argument that doesn't even have anything to do with the topic at hand.

If calling someone out for wanking is against the rules (it isn't), then you need to go warn about 70% of users on every thread and tell the other mods. This "Wanking is an insult" thing only comes from you. It's gotten old. No one agrees. The other mods don't take action. Drop it.

I warn everyone I see doing it and always have. You are wrong. Don't tell me how to do my job. My suggestion is you drop it.

Moderator
Avatar image for syntix
#173 Posted by Syntix (707 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for yasindermann
#174 Posted by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

@zgtfreak said:

@takenstew22: Because they are poorly written recton-filled trash that have no substance whatsoever. The cosmic entities are lame and poorly written and also get rectonned a lot. And I feel as though they try to make their cosmic entities powerful just for the sake of "LEWK, EH SO STRWAAANGGG!!!!!" I only like watching the debates between comic multiversals because it's interesting. (Not this thread though. This thread is trash. lmao)

This is the part of the reason why I don't read marvel comics that often and read more of DC. It's simply the fact that the cosmic entities and abstract entities in marvel are stereotypes with almost no personality. Vertigo character and DC characters are way better in terms of multiversal characters (And I mean character wise, and not powerwise). So is Umineko, etc.

Avatar image for steepardy
#175 Edited by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-Ret beyonder blinks and every version of Superman and CA Superman in every fiction simultaneously forfeit existence - PRB Godstomps solos all 3 rounds.

Thought Robot has already been destroyed and that's all the proof that is needed to know Thought Robot is not omnipotent and no where near Beyonder, his more Franklin Richards-level if he entered the Marvel universe.

Avatar image for yasindermann
#176 Edited by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: "Franklin Richards level".......K

And Beyonder cannot be destroyed? Puma almost killed him. With a multiversal attack, which is nothing to TR.

Avatar image for thevvitchking
#177 Posted by TheVVitchKing (1397 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyonder smacks him

Avatar image for steepardy
#178 Edited by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@yasindermann: Maybe his body which is just a shell, and it took PIS to do that too, 90% of CA Supermans powers are PIS. The other 10% are fanboy hype. Beyonder slaughters.

CA Superman has literally been killed and destroyed before, that's all I need to know Beyonder blinks.

Avatar image for steepardy
#179 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@yasindermann: I don't want to hear that "adapt to everything yada yada" either, there won't be anything for him to adapt too after beyonder's done with him.

Avatar image for captfalcon725
#180 Posted by CaptFalcon725 (1378 posts) - - Show Bio

Well shoot.
I don't know about this one.
The problem with the PR Beyonder is that he was mostly written at a time where Marvel's cosmology is dwarfed by the one CAS scales to. Based on impact to their respective macrocosms, I go with CAS. I recognize that PR Beyonder has more feats, but do any of them scale to CAS' ability? I doubt it.

The bonus: Living Tribunal, for being second in the Marvel cosmology, punches below his weight class so much it's scary. He's been ganked at least three or four times. The problem is that CAS has so many fewer feats...I still go with Team 1 on this one.

Avatar image for yasindermann
#181 Edited by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: Why? Because the community randomly decides what PIS is?

PIS is just another way to argue that people don't like that they character have anti-feats. Anti-feats say more than users who say: ''MUHHHHHHH! PIS! DASN'T COUNT!'' Something like that has nothing to do with debunking on a factual basis, it's simply denying the low-showings of characters because they don't like it.

Beyonder is not indestructable. Deal with it.

Avatar image for bdelloidgrain2
#182 Edited by bdelloidgrain2 (2083 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok then. Just read the first couple of pages and I am dying from @norsewinter and his comment. Bro - you are whack :)

Mad respect.

Avatar image for yasindermann
#183 Edited by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok then. Just read the first couple of pages and I am dying from @norsewinter and his comment. Bro - you are whack :)

Mad respect.

I simply want to understand you're view point now. Why are norse's comments whack?

Avatar image for bdelloidgrain2
#184 Posted by bdelloidgrain2 (2083 posts) - - Show Bio

@takenstew22 said:
@norsewinter said:

I gave a f*cking reason.

are the Marvel Bois capable of giving any? without false equivalency or "Muh DC and Muh Marvel are da saem"

Are you okay?

im stoned. but besides that im only half okay.

@yasindermann I'm referring mainly to these two.

Avatar image for bdelloidgrain2
#185 Edited by bdelloidgrain2 (2083 posts) - - Show Bio

@yasindermann said:

@baph: You couldn't even prove that our feats and arguments are non-existent, you just said that you don't like that DC characters have metaphysical feats far more than you brain can comprohend. You didn't refute it, you just keep bitching and say ''I don't like it''! with no factual data why it is that way.

You and @underfire47 said we are from VS battle wiki because we use metaphysics and cosmology to measure the character. This proves that you are just low educated idiots who think that VS battle wiki created metaphysics and cosmology.

@norsewinter

Underfire quote: Just ignore them with their attitudes they wont last too long on comicvine and they can go back to the VS battles or maybe find a new home at KMC, where they can enjoy the magnificent tiering of that forum that places guys like Morlun as herald tiers, i think they'd fit right in.

Norse, I wish them good luck trying that.

nah. just let the marvel bois despair unable to defend their fodder comic waifus.

Also this comment was pretty funny @yasindermann

Avatar image for steepardy
#186 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@yasindermann:

Why? Because the community randomly decides what PIS is?

Yes actually. I could also say bugs bunny spawns in a rubber and literally rubs the entire DC comic book out along with over monitor and thought robot -thereby meaning bugs bunny godstomps all of DC "on a factual basis". What would that be?

PIS is just another way to argue that people don't like that they character have anti-feats. Anti-feats say more than users who say: ''MUHHHHHHH! PIS! DASN'T COUNT!'' Something like that has nothing to do with debunking on a factual basis, it's simply denying the on-screen anti-feats of characters because they don't like it.

Feats that I've seen are Thought Robot literally being broken apart and killed like scrap metal.

Beyonder is not indestructable. Deal with it.

Neither is Thought Robot, in fact his already been killed. PR Beyonder hasn't.

Also not gonna come under the influence of hurr durr Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees gibberish blah blah blah, feats speak. Beyonder stomps so hard it smashes through CA Superman's PIS-armour.

Avatar image for yasindermann
#187 Edited by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: There is a strong difference between metafiction and people who say: ''ANTI-FEAT DASN'T COUNT! HURR DURR'' You couldn't even debunk my argument that Beyonder is indestructable, you just came up with another random example that had nothing to do with my argument and isn't even remotely the same.

And why do you not want to accept metaphysical feats? Literally thousand people here backed up why CAS stomps, while you argue: ''Beyonder indestructable and strong! HE WIN!''

Avatar image for underfire47
#188 Edited by Underfire47 (274 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for steepardy
#189 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@yasindermann: And you have still been ignoring the fact that Thought Robots already been killed. I personally don't feel like scurrying about uploading pictures at the moment, Beyonder blinks and Thought Robot vanishes before he has the chance to test Beyonders indestructibility. You also seem to trying to change the topic from "PR Beyonder vs Thought Robot" to "Beyonder isn't indestructible". That example actually is the same, both are PIS. In fact you're right, at least bugs bunny has the feats of him doing that, Thought Robot doesn't his only feat I can remember is him getting dismantled like scrap metal and dying. Thought Robot has no "metaphysical feats". Maybe that too is part of the dictionary where things like "Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees" means anything. Yeah not really, I just see "Uhhhh yeah probably" and "beyonder stomps" because no one knows what "Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees" means. Fortunately I'm not gonna fall for that gibberish and assumptions. The person who said:

Here we go again with all these multiple quantum 3 petaverse stacked dimension reality and meta manipulator real life threatening bullshit

Said it best.

Also I never said that, but no doubt he wins. Beyonder blinks and every version of thought robot in every -INSERT GIBBERISH HERE- is denied the right of existence simultaneously.

Avatar image for yasindermann
#190 Edited by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: Someone seriously didn't superman beyond. The only reason why Thought Robot died is because Mandrakk damaged him beyond repair. Beyonder is not able to exploit this scenario, because reasons already mentioned from other guys here.

I'm not gonna respond to this further, because you will call me out for bullshit wank without a counter argument beside ''I DON'T LIKE METAPHYSICS SO IT'S WRONG!'' with no factual data why it is that way.

DC argument brought legit arguments instead of stupid trolling.

Avatar image for mountacnologia
#191 Posted by MountAcnologia (414 posts) - - Show Bio

Some people are claiming Beyonder is above every universe in existence including our universe. And I believe that's nothing other than wank , because never ever have I heard those statements anywhere else. I admit I don't know much about Beyonder , but this seems overexaggerated to me.

So I'll go by the feats which are mentioned on VS Battles wiki and those which are regularly known. And with that , CAS takes this handily because of being a half of the source of all creation in DC franchise and literally having no limits ( in the literal sense ). And I have proven CAS' feats and abilities so the things I've mentioned are canon.

Unless someone can bring about some solid proof that Beyonder's power exceeds TOAA's or Monitor Mind's power , I am not buying the Beyonder wank.

Online
Avatar image for bdelloidgrain2
#192 Posted by bdelloidgrain2 (2083 posts) - - Show Bio

@bdelloidgrain2:

No Caption Provided

polish his boots good

What are you talking about. I haven't even made a single comment referring to the battle. I'm not kissing up to anyone here...

Avatar image for steepardy
#193 Posted by Steepardy (42 posts) - - Show Bio

@yasindermann:

Someone seriously didn't superman beyond. The only reason why Thought Robot died is because Mandrakk damaged him beyond repair. Beyonder is not able to exploit this scenario, because reasons already mentioned from other guys here.

Physical damage should be irrelevant to anything capable of taking on the Beyonder. Anything capable of killing the Beyonder should not be able to die. Period. Beyonder doesn't need to exploit any scenario, Thought robot ceases to exist before the battle even begins.

I'm not gonna respond to this further, because you will call me out for bullshit wank without a counter argument beside ''I DON'T LIKE METAPHYSICS SO IT'S WRONG!'' with no factual data why it is that way.

Is the response one would have when they have no solid proof except predictions and assumptions. Beyonders has feats, Thought Robot doesn't only baseless fanboy assumptions.

DC argument brought legit arguments instead of stupid trolling.

Legit arguments like "Hypertime by 2 fiction-reality degrees"?

Okay then in conclusion:

Until I see a scan of Thought Robot coming out of the comic book to beat Grant Morrison up for creating Mandrakk Beyonder godstomps.

Avatar image for yasindermann
#194 Edited by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: Now explain me how everything capable of dying is always inferior to the Beyonder? Beyonder got destroyed by an multiversal attack. And also, a street level character cannot defeat a multiversal buster, because the street level character is immortal and the multiversal character is capable of dying. You simply say ''irrelevant'' with no reasoning why Beyonder is able to exploit that scenario or why it even is that way. And you say I don't use feats? And also, Mandrakk and Thought Robot fought via narrative manipulation and not lame physical fighting. So no, Beyonder still doesn't have feats of damaging something so deep in metaphysics deep like the Thought Robot. That's how feats truly work. You have to show that you can do that or that.

If you don't accept my interpretation of multiversal debates, Thought Robot is far surperior in the cosmology department too.

But we brought legit feats and arguments.

Avatar image for supermanfan1938
#195 Posted by Supermanfan1938 (1055 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy: CAS manipulated the narrative so he basically made Morrison write it so he beats Mandrakk. He doesnt need to come out of the comic book thats a fodder feat that the likes of Deadpool can do. Hes made of thought and is too abstract for Beyonder

Avatar image for etriel
#196 Edited by etriel (672 posts) - - Show Bio

@steepardy said:

@yasindermann:

Physical damage should be irrelevant to anything capable of taking on the Beyonder. Anything capable of killing the Beyonder should not be able to die. Period. Beyonder doesn't need to exploit any scenario, Thought robot ceases to exist before the battle even begins.

lmfao.

> Actually thinking that CAS is a physical being when it is literally stated that he is pure thought. In a realm that is beyond a realm that is beyond Space-Time.

more lies.

Is the response one would have when they have no solid proof except predictions and assumptions. Beyonders has feats, Thought Robot doesn't only baseless fanboy assumptions.

TR Superman does have feats. He held limbo in his hand which contains realms that are bigger than a Universe. It is not baseless fanboy assumptions. The DC Multiverse map literally tells you that the Monitors are above the Multiverse by infinity over infinity over infinity degrees.

What Beyonder feat?

Beyonder has barely any feats. His best feat was destroying the planets and solar systems inside a Multiverse, but he never erased the entire space-time universes that contained those planets/solar systems.

And "shook" a Multiverse while struggled to fight a molecule manipulator.

And he scaled to a Multiverse that did not even multiply/instantly multiply itself into Infinity.

Avatar image for yasindermann
#197 Edited by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

@etriel: I mean, it's always the same with marvel fans. Bring a simplified explanation of being a platonic concept, they call you out for wank, bring a detailed version of platonic concepts and Archetypalism, they call you out for word salad.

There is literally no convincing them, that's the problem. Convince people with knowledge is one thing, but marvel fans?

Avatar image for etriel
#198 Edited by etriel (672 posts) - - Show Bio

cosmic armore superman is beyond this:

No Caption Provided

a multiverse that infinitely/instantly multiplies. no such thing existed in marvel's multiverse during the time of secret wars.

and that TR superman dwarfed/held all of that in his hand at limbo.

Avatar image for yasindermann
#199 Posted by Yasindermann (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

@etriel said:

cosmic armore superman is beyond this:

No Caption Provided

a multiverse that infinitely/instantly multiplies. no such thing existed in marvel's multiverse during the time of secret wars.

and that TR superman dwarfed/held all of that in his hand at limbo.

This. The marvel fans embarrased themselves by calling me a fanboy, even if I have a Beyonder pic and the fact that he is my favourite cosmic being. Yeah, fanboy downplayer. Yeah.

Anyway, Beyonder's best feats:

  • Being able to destroy planets and stars across the multiverse
  • Shaking the multiverse
  • Destroy the concept of death

All this feats don't apply to cosmic armour superman, since he is beyond physics, which is Beyonder's best feat. Affecting physical things, concepts (Mistress death is an abstract being that only applies to a physical multiverse) and nothing more. Dude struggled against a molecular manipulator. There is actually an easy explanation why Cosmic Armour is better by feats. Simply because he is higher in the cosmology and metaphysics department (Composite is canon).

I don't know why marvel fans try to debate this.

Avatar image for johnsmjs36
#200 Edited by johnsmjs36 (1360 posts) - - Show Bio

@etriel: Wasn't The Marvel Multiverse supposed to be something like this according to Above All Others?(except one reality at a time)