Cosmic Armor Superman vs Hadou Gods Featherine and EoS Battler

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chasekilleen

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#301  Edited By chasekilleen  Online

@sleepygypsy:

Now, you're just running away.

I'm not talking about the debate, you blind bat.

I literally asked you to provide proof and citations on how magic doesn't exist in real life and you said that my scans are outdated and you linked the Amazon link, where I already have read and sent those scans ages ago and the scans I sent are the exact same as those crappy looking screenshots you have posted, literally stating the exact same things that I sent.

WTF is wrong you??

Do you have proof that the screenshots that differ from the scans that I have sent??

Do you have proof stating that my scans are outdated?

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

No Caption Provided

It is not from Final Chapter.

Don't confuse.

In Final chapter, She doesn't use any magic.

What she doesn't age has nothing to do with magic.

It is some sort of hoax.

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chasekilleen

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#303 chasekilleen  Online

@einefaust: Do you have citations?

That final chapter that you have screenshotted is the exact same scans that I have sent you...

What the hell is wrong with you?

You have not posted any proof stating the opposite.

Do you have proof that it's a hoax and that she didn't use the Red Truth.

You said that Ikuko and Tohya are old in the photos you sent, but they are the exact same as I sent, you liar.

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

Yes I have proof.

I will post context in a few days.

So,I will debunk your lie.

And,as I said,What she doesn't age have nothing to do with that magic is real.

Ryukishi doese't expresses anything about what she doesn't age.

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chasekilleen

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#305  Edited By chasekilleen  Online

@einefaust: How is her not aging a hoax?

Who is she trying to trick??

trick or deceive (someone).

So you have no proof that her not aging has nothing to do with supernatural or magical things. LMAO.

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SleepyGypsy

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@sleepygypsy:

Now, you're just running away.

You also were aware this was a "Troll thread" and continued to post in it. We didn't think it was, but what you are doing is against actually against the rules here if you did know it was a troll thread and you fanned the flames.

I'm not talking about the debate, you blind bat.

Good, because you lost it and caused the future downfall of all future Monitor vs Umineko threads. All of them will be in favor of CAS and Monitors, because of your link to that interview.

I literally asked you to provide proof and citations on how magic doesn't exist in real life and you said that my scans are outdated and you linked the Amazon link, where I already have read and sent those scans ages ago and the scans I sent are the exact same as those crappy looking screenshots you have posted, literally stating the exact same things that I sent.

Magic isn't real. The real world in Umineko has no magic. The real world Earth-33 of DC has no magic or superheroes and Grant Morrison goes out of his way to explain this.

No Caption Provided

WTF is wrong you??

No need to get hostile.

Do you gave proof that the screenshots that differ from the scans that I have sent??

You are upset about me not knowing it was translated in English and that is the only argument you have left. It is not only off-topic, but fragile as well. Get over it. I had no idea it was already translated.

Do you have proof stating that my scans are outdated?

I said you pulled those original scans from an entirely different episode.

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chasekilleen

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#307 chasekilleen  Online

@sleepygypsy: What scans are from another episode?

All of the scans I have sent are literally in one chapter! The final chapter of Umineko EP 8.

Can you please elaborate on that?

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SleepyGypsy

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This problem you have is the size of a microbe compared to the bigger picture here, which is the dialogue of the author that just confirmed The Cosmic Armor and Mandrakk wipe out Umineko with quite literally no effort at all. I will not be discussing the chapter problem you have with me further. If I am wrong on where it appeared, that is fine and I admit being wrong on which 3 scans you posted appeared in another chapter that I'd incorrectly labeled. According to my data, I am correct. If you dislike that, feel free to get the novels and disprove me with evidence.

It changes nothing about who the Platonic Concept box is in this fight and who cannot understand what a Platonic even is.

@sleepygypsy: What scans are from another episode?

All of the scans I have sent are literally in one chapter! The final chapter of Umineko EP 8.

Can you please elaborate on that?

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chasekilleen

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#309  Edited By chasekilleen  Online

@sleepygypsy:

Have you read the last chapter or have you just forgotten and what is that specific last chapter that EineFaust is talking about? There is a chapter 9, but it's untranslated as of now.

And apparently Red Truths is not magic and that Ikuko's ageing is apparently not related to supernatural according to EineFaust and he said my chapter was not the final chapter?? What?

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alkalimetal

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@sleepygypsy:

@chasekilleen:

No Caption Provided

It is not from Final Chapter.

Don't confuse.

In Final chapter, She doesn't use any magic.

What she doesn't age has nothing to do with magic.

It is some sort of hoax.

Buddy you see that text box with that red font right there?

Thats a red truth,something that is an underlying mechanic in umineko's story that even the most basic people knowledgeable on umineko know about.

Sad you are trying to debunk stuff when you dont yourself know what you are trying to debunk.

Apparently CAS contains all concepts but still falls under the concept of change and death.Enough of BS debating.Use facts and logic now.Yato passively stop change and stops CAS then Featherine proceeds to erase him out of existence while battler provides them with E9 protection just in case.

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SleepyGypsy

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#311  Edited By SleepyGypsy

@alkalimetal said:

@sleepygypsy:

@einefaust said:

@chasekilleen:

No Caption Provided

It is not from Final Chapter.

Don't confuse.

In Final chapter, She doesn't use any magic.

What she doesn't age has nothing to do with magic.

It is some sort of hoax.

Apparently CAS contains all concepts but still falls under the concept of change and death.Enough of BS debating.Use facts and logic now.Yato passively stop change and stops CAS then Featherine proceeds to erase him out of existence while battler provides them with E9 protection just in case.

CAS is the Platonic Concept of not being able to die. Of not even existing yet. And he was still damaged and broken down on a Platonic level by Mandrakk. You can't possibly downplay this more than you are. The Cosmic Armor is something that Battler cannot manipulate, understand or even combat directly. The author said this, not me.

You seem to think the power of Magic is a stronger super power than quite literally being Platonic Concepts. CAS is the Platonic Concept of having Red Truth. He is the Concept of auto win. He is the idea that Umineko auto loses. Magic as a physical power does nothing to Platonic Concepts.

You wanted to use logic, so explain how Magic can defeat Platonic Concepts that don't exist...when the character that magic is trying to attack literally is the concept of magic.

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chasekilleen

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#312 chasekilleen  Online

@sleepygypsy: Can you not tag me please?

If you see my tag, get rid of it thanks...

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alkalimetal

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@sleepygypsy: If he cant die then featherine just eternally freezes him

Ez

Anyway, I would love scans that directly Imply your headcannons

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SleepyGypsy

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Explain to me how the Platonic Concept of Magic is defeated by the physical power of magic. You cannot use a super power of a physical nature on Platonic Concepts. They are unphysical. They are beyond ideas, a Platonic is the idea of an idea.

And you are saying MAGIC by itself, in its raw form, can defeat the idea of using Magic? You are saying that Magic can defeat the idea of all ideas that do and do not exist? You speak of headcannon...?

@sleepygypsy: If he cant die then featherine just eternally freezes him

Ez

Anyway, I would love scans that directly Imply your headcannons

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alkalimetal

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Explain to me how the Platonic Concept of Magic is defeated by the physical power of magic. You cannot use a super power of a physical nature on Platonic Concepts. They are unphysical. They are beyond ideas, a Platonic is the idea of an idea.

And you are saying MAGIC by itself, in its raw form, can defeat the idea of using Magic? You are saying that Magic can defeat the idea of all ideas that do and do not exist? You speak of headcannon...?

@alkalimetal said:

@sleepygypsy: If he cant die then featherine just eternally freezes him

Ez

Anyway, I would love scans that directly Imply your headcannons

>Thinks Umineko is physical

Kek we dont need to debate you buddy.Magic in Umineko has a different Definition than DC.Even the Omnipotent being in Umineko can fall under magic from the perspective of normal humans

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SleepyGypsy

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#316  Edited By SleepyGypsy

The author himself just said he dictates the fiction into a fantasy world below the real world Battler and Featherine are actually in. How is Magic different in Umineko when the author himself says Platonic's cannot be affected by Battler.

@alkalimetal said:

>Thinks Umineko is physical

Kek we dont need to debate you buddy.Magic in Umineko has a different Definition than DC.Even the Omnipotent being in Umineko can fall under magic from the perspective of normal humans

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alkalimetal

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The author himself just said he dictates the fiction into a fantasy world below the real world Battler and Featherine are actually in. How is Magic different in Umineko when the author himself says Platonic's cannot be affected by Battler.

@alkalimetal said:

>Thinks Umineko is physical

Kek we dont need to debate you buddy.Magic in Umineko has a different Definition than DC.Even the Omnipotent being in Umineko can fall under magic from the perspective of normal humans

>Real World

>Featherine uses Red Truths

Kek

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chasekilleen

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#318 chasekilleen  Online

@sleepygypsy:

He's refering to the magic in the games being seen from another angle. Later in the interview he even sais that something like George and Shanon vs Batrice in Episode 2 was actually a inner battle between Shanon feeling and her love for George and Battler.
You can also atribute it to some of the games being seen from the angle of Battler/Tohya wanting to reach to Ange, but those are only for some of the games as Battler/Ikuko didn't wrote all of them. . . like einefaust keeps saying.

Plus, we are told explictly that every Forgery (like what Battler/Ikuko wrote) from the "real world" (Rokenjima Prime) are added to the Catbox as Fragments/Kakeras.

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SleepyGypsy

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Saying Magic is different in Umineko than DC is literal headcanon and assumption. The author disagrees with you. He said Battler cannot affect Platonic Concepts at all. The Cosmic Armor is all Platonic Concepts that exist and does not exist. Infinite Magic cannot hurt the Platonic Concept of being able to use Infinite Magic. Infinite Magic cannot harm or effect beings beyond their own authors Comic Book Limbo. When Ryukishi wants to retcon Battler, he can. Battle and Featherine cannot travel to Ryukishi's retcon area of Umineko characters. He says so himself that he can retcon them any time he wishes in that interview.

K: Because you basically had to write two stories, right?

R: That’s right. First I had to write the real story and then create a whole other story, only connected by the events, on top of it. That’s why these two stories were so troubling. Especially because in the end it will only be rated as one story *laugh*. If I should still be writing in ten years or more, I might go and rewrite Umineko all over again.

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alkalimetal

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Saying Magic is different in Umineko than DC is literal headcanon and assumption. The author disagrees with you. He said Battler cannot affect Platonic Concepts at all. The Cosmic Armor is all Platonic Concepts that exist and does not exist. Infinite Magic cannot hurt the Platonic Concept of being able to use Infinite Magic. Infinite Magic cannot harm or effect beings beyond their own authors Comic Book Limbo. When Ryukishi wants to retcon Battler, he can. Battle and Featherine cannot travel to Ryukishi's retcon area of Umineko characters. He says so himself that he can retcon them any time he wishes in that interview.

K: Because you basically had to write two stories, right?

R: That’s right. First I had to write the real story and then create a whole other story, only connected by the events, on top of it. That’s why these two stories were so troubling. Especially because in the end it will only be rated as one story *laugh*. If I should still be writing in ten years or more, I might go and rewrite Umineko all over again.

No Caption Provided

You are literally ignoring everything Me and Chase said

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alkalimetal

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Also Nice Logic thinking CAS cannot be retconned

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SleepyGypsy

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I don't see how this is relevant, this is another tangent argument that has nothing to do with my counter to you. Infinite Magic cannot touch the idea of Infinite Magic.

Battler and Featherine cannot stop Ryukishi from doing anything. Monitors can stop the being who dreamed up DC Comics. Mandrakk and CAS oneshot the being who is the equivalent of Ryukishi in these narratives. Your turn to provide proof that Battler and Featherine can oneshot the person who created Umineko. What is your response to this and where is the evidence that Battler and Featherine have done the same?

@sleepygypsy:

He's refering to the magic in the games being seen from another angle. Later in the interview he even sais that something like George and Shanon vs Batrice in Episode 2 was actually a inner battle between Shanon feeling and her love for George and Battler.

You can also atribute it to some of the games being seen from the angle of Battler/Tohya wanting to reach to Ange, but those are only for some of the games as Battler/Ikuko didn't wrote all of them. . . like einefaust keeps saying.

Plus, we are told explictly that every Forgery (like what Battler/Ikuko wrote) from the "real world" (Rokenjima Prime) are added to the Catbox as Fragments/Kakeras.

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chasekilleen

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#323 chasekilleen  Online

@sleepygypsy:

Q: And if you were a character in Umineko When They Cry saga, who would you be?

Ryukishi07: (laughs) In the case of Umineko, it would be rather Beatrice (laughs) !

Battler EoS >>>>>> Beatrice.

LOL.

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SleepyGypsy

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#324  Edited By SleepyGypsy

Grant wrote a story that included the real world as part of the narrative. DC Comic retcons and canon are part of this story. You are confusing that with real life. That nonsense argument doesn't belong here.

One simple question to anyone here who can answer: Who created the fiction of Umineko?

It wasn't Battler or Featherine. Nix Uotan created DC Comics, who was one shot by the Council of Nil. Mandrakk and CAS one shot those Council Members. That's the end of the debate right there and nothing else needs to be said here.

@alkalimetal said:

Also Nice Logic thinking CAS cannot be retconned

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alkalimetal

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Grant wrote a story that included the real world as part of the narrative. DC Comic retcons and canon are part of this story. You are confusing that with real life. That nonsense argument doesn't belong here.

One simple question to anyone here who can answer: Who created the fiction of Umineko?

It wasn't Battler or Featherine. Nix Uotan created DC Comics, who was one shot by the Council of Nil. Mandrakk and CAS one shot those Council Members. That's the end of the debate right there and nothing else needs to be said here.

@alkalimetal said:

Also Nice Logic thinking CAS cannot be retconned

If You think real life is non sense then

Stop

Using

Meta

Logic

And

Debate

With

Facts

Simple

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xearesay

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#326 xearesay  Online

@alkalimetal: He doesn’t fall under the concept of change. The story was already set in place during his battle with Mandrakk. There is no room for change. When Mandrakk lost it was already going to happen.

He wasn’t be damaged. He was following along the story that was set in place from the beginning of the fight. TR literally said “the feel a chill as the story grows into place around me.” Shows how much you even read this story.

TR also didn’t die. He deactivated. An Overvoid extension can’t die. There is no where too die and no concept of death.

Same goes for Mandrakk. He was thrown into the Overvoid which is something he’s literally apart of. That’s like saying if I take a bucket of water and throw it into the ocean, the water in the bucket must have disappeared and been removed from existence. That’s the logic one uses when saying Mandrakk or TR died.

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alkalimetal

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@xearesay said:

@alkalimetal: He doesn’t fall under the concept of change. The story was already set in place during his battle with Mandrakk. There is no room for change. When Mandrakk lost it was already going to happen.

He wasn’t be damaged. He was following along the story that was set in place from the beginning of the fight. TR literally said “the feel a chill as the story grows into place around me.” Shows how much you even read this story.

TR also didn’t die. He deactivated. An Overvoid extension can’t die. There is no where too die and no concept of death.

Same goes for Mandrakk. He was thrown into the Overvoid which is something he’s literally apart of. That’s like saying if I take a bucket of water and throw it into the ocean, the water in the bucket must have disappeared and been removed from existence. That’s the logic one uses when saying Mandrakk or TR died.

Except Dying at the most basic level is just that,returning to nothingness.Also,going along the story is still change.Beings beyond change are literally unchanging and eternal,Stories and change hold no meaning there.You dont quite understand what level of change I am talking about here

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xearesay

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#328 xearesay  Online

@alkalimetal: Except the bucket of “water” was never a thing. It’s a part of the Overvoid. Your saying it went from something to nothing which never happened. Did you need read the first list I gave you where Nil is cited as a place where form and meaning surrender to the Overvoid? Nil is literally another way of saying nothing.

So explain how is nothing going to return to nothing?

Unchanging is exactly what the Nil beings are. Narratives form around them like crystal in solution. And even then like I said you haven’t even proven how some of these beings are even gonna effect TR who transcends 3 layers of platonism. Most of these characters aren’t even breaching 1.

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

Ryukishi doesn't express it.

So,We don't know whether it is done by magic or not.

Anyway,She is featless in real world which is only world that actually exist in Umineko.

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chasekilleen

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#330 chasekilleen  Online
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SleepyGypsy

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The Cosmic Armor's character is that he exists beyond the control of the creator of DC Comics. He exists beyond the Retcon of DC and Vertigo, both of which are story plot points in this comic book. That is what "Meta" means. Please show me where anyone in Umineko transcends their own author. You can't and never will be able to provide this information. More so, please show me where anyone in Umineko left the novel and has stuck their finger back into the Umineko novels.

You are still dodging the original argument. The author, Ryukishi, states clearly that Battler cannot touch a Platonic Concept, manipulate it or even fully understand it. The Cosmic Armor is all Platonic's. So do you agree you've lost the debate of which character has more power? We can move forward with other arguments you are bringing up when you admit here that you know that Battler cannot touch just one Platonic Concept.

@alkalimetal said:

@sleepygypsy said:

Grant wrote a story that included the real world as part of the narrative. DC Comic retcons and canon are part of this story. You are confusing that with real life. That nonsense argument doesn't belong here.

One simple question to anyone here who can answer: Who created the fiction of Umineko?

It wasn't Battler or Featherine. Nix Uotan created DC Comics, who was one shot by the Council of Nil. Mandrakk and CAS one shot those Council Members. That's the end of the debate right there and nothing else needs to be said here.

@alkalimetal said:

Also Nice Logic thinking CAS cannot be retconned

If You think real life is non sense then

Stop

Using

Meta

Logic

And

Debate

With

Facts

Simple

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

Your statement can't be any proof too,lol.

Anyway,I will post context of final chapter sooner or later.

Your lie will be debunked soon.

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SleepyGypsy

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#333  Edited By SleepyGypsy

Monitors allowed time and things to enter Nil. The Cosmic Armor pre-dates their allowance of anything at all into their domain. These users have clearly not read this comic book yet or are presenting intentionally falsified facts to you.

No Caption Provided

The Cosmic Armor predates nothingness and the concept of is not, existence and non-existence. Those concepts are laid in Limbo. And Nil is even beyond this point.

No Caption Provided

The Cosmic Armor pre-dates all the Nil Monitors and the formation of Nil.

No Caption Provided

The Cosmic Armor is in another league compared to anything in Umineko.

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chasekilleen

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#334 chasekilleen  Online

@einefaust: If you are talking about the EP 9 then that includes magic lol.

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chasekilleen

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#335 chasekilleen  Online

@einefaust: Even SleepyGypsy says he's wrong LMAO.

"I will not be discussing the chapter problem you have with me further. If I am wrong on where it appeared, that is fine and I admit being wrong on which 3 scans you posted appeared in another chapter that I'd incorrectly labeled."

The chapter I showed you is literally the end and also the Amazon link is the exact same chapter I read LMAO.

Nice lies you got there.

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SleepyGypsy

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If I am wrong, I am adult enough to admit it. Am I though? So far, you've not posted one scan to prove I am. I asked you to debunk me on it and all you've done is type your opinion. Prove I am wrong and you are right with evidence. Your opinion isn't evidence.

Tell me how Featherine and Battler touch Platonic Concepts when the author said they can't.

@einefaust: Even SleepyGypsy says he's wrong LMAO.

"I will not be discussing the chapter problem you have with me further. If I am wrong on where it appeared, that is fine and I admit being wrong on which 3 scans you posted appeared in another chapter that I'd incorrectly labeled."

The chapter I showed you is literally the end and also the Amazon link is the exact same chapter I read LMAO.

Nice lies you got there.

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

Do you understand that EP8 volume9 Final chapter don't refer to any magic?

Everything is Battler's inner description.

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chasekilleen

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#338 chasekilleen  Online

@einefaust: says it's inside of Battler's mind but two people can see what is inside his mind. 10/10.

No Caption Provided

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chasekilleen

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#339 chasekilleen  Online

@einefaust: The exact same cover you sent is the same chapter I have read.
You said that the final chapter wasn't translated, when it was translated, you liar.

No Caption Provided

I have not seen any proof from you whatsoever.

Do you have proof that why Ikuko doesn't age is or is not related to magic being in the 'real world' or not?

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

There is no confirmed magic in final chapter of Umineko EP8 volume9 final chapter.

Why Ikuko doesn't age is not enpressed.But,She hase't shown any magic in final chapter.

Everything is Battler's inner description.

I will post context later and debunk your terrible lie.

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chasekilleen

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#341 chasekilleen  Online

@einefaust:

She literally says that her role as Ikuko is only temporary, as Ikuko is only the vessel of Featherine.

So, do you have proof that her aging has nothing to do with magic?

What do you mean by inner description?

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EineFaust

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#342  Edited By EineFaust

@chasekilleen:

Ikuko's statement is some sort of hoax.

Why she doesn't age is not expressed.

At least,She doesn't use any magic in final chapter.

Last scene of final chapter is about Battler's inner description that Battler rememberd everything about his past.

There is no magic in it.

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chasekilleen

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#343  Edited By chasekilleen  Online

@einefaust: She still uses Red Truth, not talking about magic.

And the author has said that the ending can be interpreted in any way by how the reader's see fit.

So, you can't just say magic doesn't exist when all of it is subjective.

It's stated that Beato's gameboard doesn't have magic, it says nothing about magic not existing in the rest of the world.

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

When?

She doesn't use any red truth in final chapter.

Scan that Ikuko used red truth is not final chapter.

And,Ryukishi implied in his interview that magic doesn't exist interpretation is right.

Anyway,your lie will be debunked.

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SleepyGypsy

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#345  Edited By SleepyGypsy

It isn't the real world if there is magic in it. This is why Grant Morrison explained in that interview that the past Real World of DC contained superpowers, therefore it cannot be the actual real world. So he made Earth-33, a place that is actually supposed to represent this one here we live in. No powers, nothing super, no physics breaking. Monitors and The Empty Hand exist beyond our religious deities here in our "real world" religions.

This crowd REFUSES to read this scan. The plot here is that everything is drawn on the Overvoid, even us and our real world.

No Caption Provided

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chasekilleen

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#346 chasekilleen  Online

@einefaust: Ryukishi said that Beato's gameboard magic doesn't exist LOL.

She uses the Red Truth in the final chapter, they are all the same fricking continuity.

It's not like she uses Red Truth in EP 7, she uses it in the last chapter where they are continued of each other.

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chasekilleen

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#347 chasekilleen  Online
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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

Real world is not Beato's gameboard.

And,No,She doesn't use red truth.

Scan she used red truth is not final chapter.

I will post detail later.

So,your terrible lie will be debunked.

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chasekilleen

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#349 chasekilleen  Online

@einefaust: That's what I said bruh.

I said that Beato's gameboard doesn't equal the real world.

They are all in the same scenario LOL.

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

Final chapter was done in real world,not Beat's gameboard.

No Caption Provided

And,This is not even a scan of Umineko EP8 volume9 final chapter.