Cosmic Armor Superman vs Hadou Gods Featherine and EoS Battler

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@einefaust: Nice derailing just to cover your mistakes.

You first said that there's no magic in real-life in Umineko.

When I literally showed you facts stating that MAGIC does exist in real life from when she used Red Truth and also her Aging Stops in real-life means that you're getting desperate and now you're asking to show multiversal feats. LOL nice going dude.

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

Because in official interview,Ryukishi implied magic is not real.

And,I have posted final chapter.

At least,magic doesn't exist in Meta worlds sense.

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@einefaust: I checked with a massive fan of Umineko and he said that it was Beatrice's game, including magic ONLY in Beatrice's game is not real. Not in the real world. Dude, you're taking out of context.

What I posted is the final chapter, it literally says FINISHED, THE END.

What you posted isn't the final chapter.

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

What are you saying?

Nothing suggested that final chapter is not Beatrice's game.

Don't tell a lie.

And,What I posted is first half of Final chapter.

Anyway,I will post context tomorrow.

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@einefaust: I never said that the final chapter was the Beatrice's game.

I said that the magic in Beatrice's game was stated to be not real, it never said that the entire Umineko including the real world doesn't have magic.

Quote me, when did I say that the FINAL CHAPTER was Beatrice's game. I dare you to quote me, come one? Quote me? When did I say that the final chapter of part 8 was Beatrice's gameboard?

What you posted is not the final chapter. I literally read the final chapter of Part 8 and it's just Ange getting an award for the story that she has written, what I posted was literally the end stating that it was finished.

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The alts

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EineFaust

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@chasekilleen:

Can't you see the word 最終話?

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最終話 means final chapter.

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SleepyGypsy

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@chasekilleen: You are not correct in this debate. What you are claiming is the end, is not the end. This new release is. Inside of this new story, the closing ultimate truth is vividly and clearly laying down: Umineko is a fiction that a crippled man and an aging lady came up with to make their lives feel more meaningful. There is no magic in the real world, it could not have stated it more clearly. The scans you are using are from aged episodes and not this new one.

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xearesay

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#264  Edited By xearesay

Still waiting for people to post scans explaining how the unchangeable, absolute extension from the platform that allows fictive works to exist can lose to beings who exist as byproducts of creation...

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@einefaust: I'll wait until they translate it and many times, it's been stated that the magic in real life thing is open to conclusions, so whether it's true or not is very subjective.

I'm not talking about the matchup, if you're wondering.

I'm talking about magic in real life situation.

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alkalimetal

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@xearesay said:

Still waiting for people to post scans explaining how the unchangeable, absolute extension from the platform that allows fictive works to exist can lose to beings who exist as byproducts of creation...

Still waiting for the monitor group to actually use FACTS and LOGIC

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xearesay

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@alkalimetal: lol what is facts and logic to you? Not one person here has explained how Featherine or Battler can win against Thought Robot. We've literally layed out what needs to be proven for these characters to contend with CAS.

1. Extension of true omnipotent

2. Contains one's own fiction and be the literal essence that allows one's fiction to expand and exist.

3. Be beyond the meta retcon zone for characters that are removed from continuities.

4. Having infinite/instant adaption.

5. Be beyond an archetypal world where form and meaning surrender and dwarf beings who are independent to narratives.

6. Contain every concept imaginable and unimaginable

This is the bare minimum criteria to even touch Thought Robot. It's the least you could do to make this fight worth debating.

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alkalimetal

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@xearesay said:

@alkalimetal: lol what is facts and logic to you? Not one person here has explained how Featherine or Battler can win against Thought Robot. We've literally layed out what needs to be proven for these characters to contend with CAS.

1. Extension of true omnipotent

2. Contains one's own fiction and be the literal essence that allows one's fiction to expand and exist.

3. Be beyond the meta retcon zone for characters that are removed from continuities.

4. Having infinite/instant adaption.

5. Be beyond an archetypal world where form and meaning surrender and dwarf beings who are independent to narratives.

6. Contain every concept imaginable and unimaginable

This is the bare minimum criteria to even touch Thought Robot. It's the least you could do to make this fight worth debating.

1)4 and 6 point contradict themselves as He contains every concept possible but still falls under the concept of change by having adaptation

2)>Embodies every concept possible;>Gets bodied by mandrakk in a fight(Vulnerable to the concept of change and damage),Dies(Need I say anything?)

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SleepyGypsy

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#269  Edited By SleepyGypsy

These Platonic's were unmade by Mandrakk. That is how powerful Mandrakk is. He can wipe Platonic Concepts out because he is the reason they exist. Are you not aware that both Overvoid and Mandrakk were called The Investigator in Final Crisis? Also, that Grant Morrison confirmed Mandrakk is the Overvoid giving itself a character arc? He said "Monitor Mind works through his own story and spares Nix Uotan to be the sole representative."

Likewise, you ignore that narrative plot but and cite CAS as getting bodied anyway as your justification. Lets reverse that same argument and reflect it back to you. The Destruction and Obliteration of Platonic Concepts make CAS infinitely above the medical condition and fall that caused Battler to be crippled and permanently bodied in his wheelchair in his real world.

@alkalimetal said:
@xearesay said:

@alkalimetal: lol what is facts and logic to you? Not one person here has explained how Featherine or Battler can win against Thought Robot. We've literally layed out what needs to be proven for these characters to contend with CAS.

1. Extension of true omnipotent

2. Contains one's own fiction and be the literal essence that allows one's fiction to expand and exist.

3. Be beyond the meta retcon zone for characters that are removed from continuities.

4. Having infinite/instant adaption.

5. Be beyond an archetypal world where form and meaning surrender and dwarf beings who are independent to narratives.

6. Contain every concept imaginable and unimaginable

This is the bare minimum criteria to even touch Thought Robot. It's the least you could do to make this fight worth debating.

1)4 and 6 point contradict themselves as He contains every concept possible but still falls under the concept of change by having adaptation

2)>Embodies every concept possible;>Gets bodied by mandrakk in a fight(Vulnerable to the concept of change and damage),Dies(Need I say anything?)

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alkalimetal

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These Platonic's were unmade by Mandrakk. That is how powerful Mandrakk is. He can wipe Platonic Concepts out because he is the reason they exist. Are you not aware that both Overvoid and Mandrakk were called The Investigator in Final Crisis? Also, that Grant Morrison confirmed Mandrakk is the Overvoid giving itself a character arc? He said "Monitor Mind works through his own story and spares Nix Uotan to be the sole representative."

Likewise, you ignore that narrative plot but and cite CAS as getting bodied anyway as your justification. Lets reverse that same argument and reflect it back to you. The Destruction and Obliteration of Platonic Concepts make CAS infinitely above the medical condition and fall that caused Battler to be crippled and permanently bodied in his wheelchair in his real world.

@alkalimetal said:
@xearesay said:

@alkalimetal: lol what is facts and logic to you? Not one person here has explained how Featherine or Battler can win against Thought Robot. We've literally layed out what needs to be proven for these characters to contend with CAS.

1. Extension of true omnipotent

2. Contains one's own fiction and be the literal essence that allows one's fiction to expand and exist.

3. Be beyond the meta retcon zone for characters that are removed from continuities.

4. Having infinite/instant adaption.

5. Be beyond an archetypal world where form and meaning surrender and dwarf beings who are independent to narratives.

6. Contain every concept imaginable and unimaginable

This is the bare minimum criteria to even touch Thought Robot. It's the least you could do to make this fight worth debating.

1)4 and 6 point contradict themselves as He contains every concept possible but still falls under the concept of change by having adaptation

2)>Embodies every concept possible;>Gets bodied by mandrakk in a fight(Vulnerable to the concept of change and damage),Dies(Need I say anything?)

No, wait morrison himself disagrees with this mega headcannon when he said that CAS and Mandrakk embody +ive and -ive. There is literally not even a glimpse of the Yahweh-lucifer-Michael relationship that you wanna Imply

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SleepyGypsy

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#271  Edited By SleepyGypsy

@alkalimetal: Mr. Morrison clearly states Overvoid is God more than once. When you say no to that and the author says yes, you are altering facts to suit your preferences.

This new publication episode of Umineko states clearly that the entire fiction is a fantasy of a crippled man and an aging woman. Both of which are upset by their conditions, so they day dream a world of Witches and Wizards where they can heal themselves and deage themselves. That is Umineko, a fiction inside of another fiction. This is now confirmed.

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NightwingX

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@alkalimetal: Mr. Morrison clearly states Overvoid is God more than once. When you say no to that and the author says yes, you are altering facts to suit your preferences.

This new publication episode of Umineko states clearly that the entire fiction is a fantasy of a crippled man and an aging woman. Both of which are upset by their conditions, so they day dream a world of Witches and Wizards where they can heal themselves and deage themselves. That is Umineko, a fiction inside of another fiction. This is now confirmed.

If it clearly states that then you can easily post the source and provide legit information. People isn't going to take your words at face value.

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SleepyGypsy

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#273  Edited By SleepyGypsy

@nightwingx: Sure. Credit to EineFuast for them. Translators confirmed EineFuast is telling the truth. However, I'd urge you individually to go find translators because I do not expect you to blindly trust it. If you want a link to purchase this, here it is:

: https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%81%86%E3%81%BF%E3%81%AD%E3%81%93%E3%81%AE%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8F%E9%A0%83%E3%81%AB%E6%95%A3-Answer-golden-witch-Episode/dp/4048704656

These explain that the Metaworld contains no magic and that it is all inside of Battler's broken mind. These scans are the new mythos. The scans of Battler getting out of his chair, the one set that ChaseKilleen posted earlier, were from older episodes. This new episode says that Battler and Featherine have no magic in the real world and that the Metaworld is a fabrication of their needs to cope with their damaged lives.

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NightwingX

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#274  Edited By NightwingX

@sleepygypsy: WTF, i thought you guys said this was a new release but it was just answer to the golden witch which was already translated here. This is old news.

Hilarious!! I already know that that @einefaust haven't even read umineko and keep taking things out of context. He already have a history of doing that.

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#275  Edited By SleepyGypsy

@nightwingx: No. You misunderstand. This is the finalized chapter and we were debating on that other users scans not being relevant further, due to not being the finalized story plots in this fiction's history. You didn't read that article, did you? Here is a clip that disproves what you just stated.

R: If I may speak frankly, this is something which Higurashi’s Watanagashi-hen and Meakashi-hen are famous for. The main story and the background story became a double-layered structure, and then could be set back into one, right?! This is something I wanted to do with every arc when I started the concept of Umineko.

K: You are talking about the real world and the meta world?

R: Correct. I wanted to show the result of everything that happened in the real world, but make the interpretation and the processes leading towards it into fantasy. If you read all of it, learned the truth and then went back and reread it all, you would be able to see it in another light, as a mystery, but that was really hard to keep up *laugh*.

K: Because you basically had to write two stories, right?

R: That’s right. First I had to write the real story and then create a whole other story, only connected by the events, on top of it. That’s why these two stories were so troubling. Especially because in the end it will only be rated as one story *laugh*. If I should still be writing in ten years or more, I might go and rewrite Umineko all over again.

K: EP3 was written so that it appeared that Eva and Eva-Beatrice were the same existence, but I often had thoughts that maybe “The entirety of the murder is not restricted to Eva”. “From which point on did she murder?”, was an important topic for me from that point on. “Is it really okay to connect them equally?” or “Must I think of the actions on the gameboard and in the meta world as different things?” were things that really pained me.

R: That a really difficult point here. The meta world and the real world are linked at certain points, at other points there are differences. It’s really difficult to be certain of those. I don’t really want to give a model explanation for this. I would rather wish for the readers to look up famous deduction collections on the internet, read through different ideas and then form their own conclusion.

This information is enough to call the Moderators in to close this thread, the answer could not be more clean-cut than the author directly stating this.

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@xearesay said:

Still waiting for people to post scans explaining how the unchangeable, absolute extension from the platform that allows fictive works to exist can lose to beings who exist as byproducts of creation...

good luck! I cant believe it gotten this fare.

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#278  Edited By NightwingX

@sleepygypsy:and like i said, that was old news.

ryukishi07 in his interview already said that the manga was the official answer .

A: The character of Sayo Yasuda in Umineko is interesting. What were your thoughts in Sayo’s creation? Additionally, what were your thoughts on her expansion in the Umineko manga?
R: The secret of the character of Sayo is the core of Umineko’s story, so her inner workings and development were designed carefully and with the utmost complexity.

In the original version, in order to leave room for imagination for the reader to solve the mystery, I chose not to draw Sayo’s secrets in great detail (of course, it’s still possible to grasp, but I didn’t show things in a way where everyone would get it.)

With the manga version of Umineko, however, we considered the work to be a “period” to the “sentence” that is the world of Umineko.

Because of this, when I met with Natsumi-sensei [Kei Natsumi, the artist of the manga adaptation of Umineko’s eighth episode], I asked her to show all the secrets in a way that can easily be understood by anyone.

Thus, all of the episode of Sayo that appeared in the EP8 manga is the official answer to the world of Umineko.

By no means is the manga version a individual interpretation. It is an official answer from me, Ryukishi07.

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SleepyGypsy

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#279  Edited By SleepyGypsy

@nightwingx: We are not debating canon authenticity.

The structure of Umineko is that some sad characters are making their own fiction, composed of magical entities. This publication states it directly. The interview you posted, stated this directly. The Cosmic Armor reigns above Earth 33, which is the real world as per this comic story. Monitors can do what Battler and Featherine cannot in this scan.

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These same Monitors are instantly destroyed by Mandrakk and The Cosmic Armor. The answer is vividly clear on who wins this fight.

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@sleepygypsy: You just said that Featherine is an old lady?

Where is it??

What's with the contradiction?

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@nightwingx: Sure. Credit to EineFuast for them. Translators confirmed EineFuast is telling the truth. However, I'd urge you individually to go find translators because I do not expect you to blindly trust it. If you want a link to purchase this, here it is:

: https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%81%86%E3%81%BF%E3%81%AD%E3%81%93%E3%81%AE%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8F%E9%A0%83%E3%81%AB%E6%95%A3-Answer-golden-witch-Episode/dp/4048704656

These explain that the Metaworld contains no magic and that it is all inside of Battler's broken mind. These scans are the new mythos. The scans of Battler getting out of his chair, the one set that ChaseKilleen posted earlier, were from older episodes. This new episode says that Battler and Featherine have no magic in the real world and that the Metaworld is a fabrication of their needs to cope with their damaged lives.

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What the shit is this?

I just read this and it's the same chapter that she said that Witches don't age, you lying sack of crap.

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EineFaust

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#283  Edited By EineFaust

@chasekilleen:

Do you understand the hoax?

What she insists that she is a withch doesn't mean she is real witch.

At least,She doesn't show any magic in final chapter of Umineko.

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@einefaust: She literally used the Red Truth, what do you mean no magic and that Amazon Link you sent is the exact same manga that I read, you blithering lying crap.

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SleepyGypsy

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@chasekilleen: Your counter is null and void:

R: If I may speak frankly, this is something which Higurashi’s Watanagashi-hen and Meakashi-hen are famous for. The main story and the background story became a double-layered structure, and then could be set back into one, right?! This is something I wanted to do with every arc when I started the concept of Umineko.

K: You are talking about the real world and the meta world?

R: Correct. I wanted to show the result of everything that happened in the real world, but make the interpretation and the processes leading towards it into fantasy. If you read all of it, learned the truth and then went back and reread it all, you would be able to see it in another light, as a mystery, but that was really hard to keep up *laugh*.

Your argument is concluded, ChaseKilleen.

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EineFaust

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#286  Edited By EineFaust

@chasekilleen:

When did she use red truth?

I will post context tomorrow.

Everything is Battler's inner description.

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@sleepygypsy: The screenshots of those scans that you EineFaust sent are the exact same scans that I gave, you lying piece of crap. Stop lying and pretend to know all about it.

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SleepyGypsy

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The Author says even Battler struggled with Platonic Concepts. So nowhere in this discussion are you correct. CAS is all the Platonic's that do and do not exist. Just the concept of Truth is enough to break this fiction.

K: That’s why he also got the first place in the competition for most suspicious character on the homepage, right?!

R: To doubt the main character was an influence left over from Higurashi and so it was easy to make you doubt. That is why it was a simple mislead in itself and this is no special secret information. This also intertwines with the red truth which first appeared in EP2. While Battler doubts wether the red truth is “actually the absolute truth” , he cannot respond to with clear prove to Rosa’s question “Are you really Battler?”. Those are self-contradictions I wanted to portray as well. I cannot prove if the me who is talking right now is actually the one who wrote Umineko *laugh*. That is why I often skipped the parts where it says “This is the truth! That is really that person!” and went right for the believing part.

Your entire debate ends right here, sir. Battler cannot handle the Platonic Concept of Truth and is confused by it. They have absolutely no control over Platonic's. CAS is all the Platonic's. You've lost this debate.

@einefaust: She literally used the Red Truth, what do you mean no magic and that Amazon Link you sent is the exact same manga that I read, you blithering lying crap.

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@einefaust:

You're such a liar, why are you pretending to know something when you don't?

I thought that you have read Umineko

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EineFaust

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Treating inner description as the evidence that magic is real ls most absurd thing I have ever heard.

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@einefaust: You have not shown one single proof...

She has used Red Truth in the supposed real world and she literally stated that Witches Do Not Age!

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Stop giving excuses.

You have not shown me a single proof.

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SleepyGypsy

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There are no fabrications in anything we've stated. Those scenes show Battler and Featherine in the real world without powers. You've just lost this entire discussion, I don't need to post anything further after this. The author just said Battler cannot handle or manipulate this concept of Ultimate Truth. You provided the link where he said this, so you've collapsed this entire discussion in favor of The Cosmic Armor.

The Cosmic Armor is all Platonic Concepts that do and do not exist. Battler cannot touch and understand the concept of total truth. An instant loss for the team. The Cosmic Armor wins.

@chasekilleen said:

@sleepygypsy: The screenshots of those scans that you EineFaust sent are the exact same scans that I gave, you lying piece of crap. Stop lying and pretend to know all about it.

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@sleepygypsy:

Yet, you have no proof that she doesn't have powers since she used the Red Truth, which is stated to be Magic and also she literally said that she doesn't age at all.

Do you have proof that what she does is natural?

I'm not talking about the debate, I am talking about you lying.

Where is your proof stating that magic doesn't exist when she has used it and she has supernatural way to stop her ageing appearance.

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SleepyGypsy

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#295  Edited By SleepyGypsy

You are dodging everything I said. The author said Battler cannot handle a Platonic Concept. The Cosmic Armor is all the Platonic's. Therefore, The Cosmic Armor wins.

@chasekilleen said:

@sleepygypsy:

Yet, you have no proof that she doesn't have powers since she used the Red Truth, which is stated to be Magic and also she literally said that she doesn't age at all.

Do you have proof that what she does is natural?

I'm not talking about the debate, I am talking about you lying.

Where is your proof stating that magic doesn't exist when she has used it and she has supernatural way to stop her ageing appearance.

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@sleepygypsy: I already said I am not talking about the debate and you can tell this is a troll thread because Hadou is from Dies Irae, not Umineko.

If you'd know anything about Umineko, then you'd know this is a troll thread, since Hadou Gods are in Dies Irae, not in Umineko.

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SleepyGypsy

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#297  Edited By SleepyGypsy

@chasekilleen said:

@sleepygypsy: I already said I am not talking about the debate and you can tell this is a troll thread because Hadou is from Dies Irae, not Umineko.

There are many threads that include team matchups from different fictions. Nobody here said anything about everyone being from Higurashi or Umineko.

If you'd know anything about Umineko, then you'd know this is a troll thread, since Hadou Gods are in Dies Irae, not in Umineko.

If you knew what you had previously claimed about this fiction, you'd never have posted a link to an article interview with the author saying Battler is inferior to Platonic Concepts.

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@sleepygypsy: What? Your statements make no sense.

Since when did the OP add Dies Irae in here.

The title says Hadou God Featherine, Hadou God is from Dies Irae and Featherine is from Umineko.

The OP literally put Battler EoS and Hadou Featherine.

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@sleepygypsy: I'm not talking about Battler nor the debate. I said that do you have proof that magic doesn't exist in the real world and can you provide citations or proof explaining why Featherine doesn't age and how is she able to use Red Truth if there's no magic and it's stated that Ikuko is a vessel of Featherine.

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None of us care about anything else but the fact that The Cosmic Armor is facing off alone against two characters from Umineko. We don't care who the other teammates are. You are tangent diverting the discussion and not staying on topic at all.

Ryukishi himself states Platonic's > Battler

The Cosmic Armor is all Platonic's. Therefore, this debate is concluded.

@sleepygypsy: What? Your statements make no sense.

Since when did the OP add Dies Irae in here.

The title says Hadou God Featherine, Hadou God is from Dies Irae and Featherine is from Umineko.

The OP literally put Battler EoS and Featherine.