Cosmic Armor Superman and Captain Adam vs Death of Endless and Micheal

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Stomps

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Bloodlusted

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SleepyGypsy

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This question was already answered directly by DC Comics. "Overvoid makes a concept to contain the Flaw." That Concept is The Cosmic Armor.

Michael, The Endless and The Silver City are all inside The Flaw listed below. Have you read the DC Cosmic Map? It clearly says The Endless and Angels reside quite far below the Overvoid and Nil.

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Stomps

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Stomps

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#5  Edited By Stomps

Bump

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Y3kthunder

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#6  Edited By Y3kthunder

Team 2 an what is captain adam doing here?

Actually who is that they better be someone really powerful

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Hyoname

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#7 Hyoname  Online

Team 2 an what is captain atom doing here?

captain *adam

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Y3kthunder

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@hyoname: yes my bad I realized my mistake who are they better be someone real powerful

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deactivated-5e46df20c7e13

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Captain Adam Atom Ant!

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Soratoumiga

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Either one of team 2 solos, mismatch

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SleepyGypsy

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Mandrakk's brother already killed The Presence in Final Crisis. A war was fought in Heaven and The Presence lost.

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Mismatch. Overvoid is the real God of DC and The Presence admitted he is the product of Dreams of others. This is paralleled in Earth-33's bio.

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olajoe1

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Either 1 of team 2 solo missmatch

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olajoe1

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SleepyGypsy

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It isn't. The Silver City is where The Presence lives and where the Pax Dei are from.

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This is where Heaven is located on the Map

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In Final Crisis Revelations, the Radiant and Spectre stated they cannot perish until The Presence perishes first.

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The very next issue, both are dead, the war in heaven is discussed and the loss of the good side is confirmed, Mandrakk/Rox Ogama talks about the defenders of God and also the Pax Dei are summoned, the Army of God.

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A Monitor already beat someone more powerful than Michael and Death of the Endless.

@olajoe1 said:

@sleepygypsy: pretty sure the source is heaven for new gods

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Theorder14

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Team two stomps

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SleepyGypsy

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#16  Edited By SleepyGypsy
@theorder14 said:

Team two stomps

How? Lucifer was defeated by the Pax Dei and the Pax Dei could not harm Rox Ogama. What makes that even worse, is that Rox Ogama didn't have his powers and still was more potent than the entire Pax Dei Army.

Gabriel alone was enough to almost destroy Lucifer when he was at his most powerful. So how does team 2 achieve a victory, when just 2 Pax Dei team made a mockery of Dream of the Endless and one almost destroyed Lucifer by himself?

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olajoe1

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#17  Edited By olajoe1

@sleepygypsy: Pax Dei never defeated lucifer you dont know how the battle went you are just assuming,

2. As seen in Darksied war all dead new Gods were in the source

3. just because the spectre was on the floor doesnt make hime dead bro and remember when presence firs left creation everything was gonna get destroyed because he wasnt there to renew it Micheal had to step-up renewing creation every second for a while with his own power.

Dont remember a monitor fighting someone with the power to erase the entire omniverse 5 times over

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SleepyGypsy

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Yes, they did. In Lucifer Issue 75. Gabriel by himself was enough to almost destroy Lucifer in combat. The entire Pax Dei team defeated Lucifer and his army.

If you claim the Source is Heaven, then Darkseid was supposed to win and not be flung out to fall down. You misunderstand. After Batman shot him, Darkseid fell through the entire Multiverse and on his way down he'd noticed that something big was happening in Heaven. This is on the first page of the comic and referencing an event that happens later in the comic series of Final Crisis.

Rox Ogama defeated The Spectre and The Radiant at the same time. What you are saying is that this is a throwaway line below in Final Crisis: Revelations.

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This is not a throwaway, it is a setup line. One issue later, this happens. "Our essences remain eternal until the pasing of the Almighty who created us"

One issue later, both of them are dead, fed on and destroyed. Mandrakk/Rox talks about God.

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Then, the Pax Dei Army, the guys who defeated Lucifer, are summoned by Nix Uotan and they inflict zero damage. You asked for Monitors fighting something that can generate and undo creation? You received three sets of characters that could do this that each lost to Rox Ogama, who didn't have his Monitor powers when he beat them.

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What's your response to a Monitor who had no Monitors powers defeating The Spectre, The Radiant, obliterating Heaven, drilling holes through the Silver City, crushing the Pax Dei and the authors saying Monitors are beyond all the DC Gods? Facts don't seem as though they are on your side, I'm afraid.

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Whats your response to Nix Uotan dreaming up DC Comics. Are you saying that Lucifer > the being who created the entire fiction? You, and everyone else supporting team 2, have a ton of explaining to do.

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@olajoe1 said:

@sleepygypsy: Pax Dei never defeated lucifer you dont know how the battle went you are just assuming,

2. As seen in Darksied war all dead new Gods were in the source

3. just because the spectre was on the floor doesnt make hime dead bro and remember when presence firs left creation everything was gonna get destroyed because he wasnt there to renew it Micheal had to step-up renewing creation every second for a while with his own power.

Dont remember a monitor fighting someone with the power to erase the entire omniverse 5 times over

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GodGate

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CAS solos.

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Y3kthunder

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Team 2 death claims even concepts so embody as many as you want an cas almost died by a blast equal to the orrey Michael produces a much bigger blast

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Shade545

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Y3kthunder

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@shade545: I'd say so neither team 1 has the feats to compete even with authors statements cas already died am he is the stronger of the 2 so rip

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thebeyonder1

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How do they even kill death.

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SleepyGypsy

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The Cosmic Armor is all Platonic Concept's that do and do not exist. This is the fight between the idea of death and life. Of not, and is. You take this as a physical battle in space somewhere?

The dismantling of Platonic Concepts by Mandrakk is what Mandrakk does and when you downplay that, it makes your argument fragile. Death of the Endless was created by a Monitor who got oneshotted by Mandrakk. Your entire argument just erupted in flames.

@shade545: I'd say so neither team 1 has the feats to compete even with authors statements cas already died am he is the stronger of the 2 so rip

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SleepyGypsy

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#25  Edited By SleepyGypsy

If you draw a fiction on a piece of paper or paint it on a canvass, a character of Death of the Endless, does that narrative you drew hold any power when you find out that Canvass you used to paint on is really upset with you for drawing on it?

The narrative means nothing compared to the physical medium the narrative is drawn or written on. That medium is Overvoid, it's literally the comic page. If it wants to, it removes Death of the Endless that you drew on it and then bans you from ever drawing on it again. What the hell is Death of the Endless going to do against the pages she is printed on?

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@thebeyonder1 said:

How do they even kill death.

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Y3kthunder

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Lol ok

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SleepyGypsy

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Lol, indeed. Here are more references to where The Presence actually resides.

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Now you have both the Lucifer series and the Sandman series confirming The Silver City predates and reigns above all the Angels.

More so, here is what happens to God's when they die. They don't get taken by an Endless. They simply cease to be. Your responses on The Cosmic Armor falling under the authority of an Endless is a moot point.

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This person created the Endless, Lucifer and The Presence.

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This person stripped and oneshot the being who created Lucifer, The Endless and The Presence.

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This person oneshot the entities that oneshot Nix Uotan.

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You have no arguments left except that you don't like this.

Lol ok

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SleepyGypsy

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The Silver City and The Presence are way down here on the Cosmic Map.

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Y3kthunder

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Yes the presence lives in the silver city he existed before it an created it. It predates all angels except lucifer an Michael an if youd like Gabriel

An passing infers death they still die lol. Cas is a concept death claims even those

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SleepyGypsy

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Death of the Endless has no grasp on Platonic concepts. Your response here is reaching for the stars and beyond, entirely subjective. The being that created Father Time and Mother Night dreamed up by a Monitor. You don't have an argument, yet you still persist with one anyway.

Yes the presence lives in the silver city he existed before it an created it. It predates all angels except lucifer an Michael an if youd like Gabriel

An passing infers death they still die lol. Cas is a concept death claims even those

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Y3kthunder

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She is a platonic concept

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SleepyGypsy

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#32  Edited By SleepyGypsy

No, she isn't. She is a string or wave function at best. An Endless cannot reach out of Vertigo Comics and claim the author of her own fiction. Monitors did.

Endless are abstracts that were defeated by the Pax Dei. Two Pax Dei overrode Dream inside of his own realm. They aren't the concepts of all concepts. The Cosmic Armor is though. Do you know what Platonic Concepts are?

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@y3kthunder said:

She is a platonic concept

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Y3kthunder

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#33  Edited By Y3kthunder

@sleepygypsy: yea an read the rest of it she is the very idea of death itself she has no form

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SleepyGypsy

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Here are two Angels undoing the authority of what you call a Concept.

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Here is the entire team of Pax Dei being no sold by Rox Ogama, a Monitor who had no Monitor powers at this moment.

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Here is Destiny being schooled by The Fates, last I checked Platonic Concept's of Destiny cannot be outdone by beings who are not Platonic in nature.

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Your "platonic" Endless were defeated by just 2 random lower tier Pax Dei and also the un-Platonic Fates. Rox Ogama no sold the entire team.

Your response will certainly be that the text in my scans say something else and that I am lying. That is how you debate. I post a scan and you insist I am lying about what the text says.

@sleepygypsy: yea an read the rest of it she is the very idea of death itself she has no form

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Y3kthunder

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Wow showing a out of context scan of the presence speaking through 2 angels real impressed dream already stated that he had no business refusing the creator of hell whats his an he already knows lucifer is more powerful then him why would he try taking on hos creator in both senses of the word as the presence is dreams creator an lucifers. An alls the sisters dis was point out an event that would happen in hia book. Cool he was surprised but guess what the event was still in there. At least my concepts don't get railed by heroes

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SleepyGypsy

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#36  Edited By SleepyGypsy

Your concepts are ink and text on the comic book page and you, for whatever reason, think the statements you are typing in this text box would defeat the text box and web page if it were sentient. That is the same relationship of Overvoid to the Flaw. Your Endless and Presence were drawn on Monitor Mind.

Text cannot touch the comic page. You are delusional if you think it can.

@y3kthunder said:

Wow showing a out of context scan of the presence speaking through 2 angels real impressed dream already stated that he had no business refusing the creator of hell whats his an he already knows lucifer is more powerful then him why would he try taking on hos creator in both senses of the word as the presence is dreams creator an lucifers. An alls the sisters dis was point out an event that would happen in hia book. Cool he was surprised but guess what the event was still in there. At least my concepts don't get railed by heroes

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Y3kthunder

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#37  Edited By Y3kthunder

Your so called concept was made by the overvoid not even stated to be an entension only mandrakk was. An it died an got plastered by an attack equal to the orrey. An its powered by 2 beings who are susceptible to death

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SleepyGypsy

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My so-called concepts? You mean the Author himself calling them Platonic's, right? Nice try, spinning this like it's my theory or at all subjective. You act like the Cosmic Armor is alive. It is a conceptual weapon. It doesn't die. The idea of the Endless and Concepts are still part of the Cosmic Armor. Mandrakk's army doesn't exist, but it still arrived anyway.

Do the Endless exist, or do they not exist yet?

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Tell me how The Endless can get to Vertigo Retcon again.

Your so called concept was made by the overvoid not even stated to be an entension only mandrakk was. An it died an got plastered by an attack equal to the orrey. An its powered by 2 beings who are susceptible to death

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Y3kthunder

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I didn't say cas was a concept because its your theory gg on twisting words I said so called concepts because if you wanna call him that he is a sorry excuse.

No where did i say it was alive I said its powered up by 2 living beings thats no lie. An yea it lost an was destroy after one fight even concepts exists in the nil you author statement proves this.

An what to you mean do they not exist yet? They're the nessessities for existence.

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SleepyGypsy

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@y3kthunder: You said clear as the sun shines on a cloudless afternoon that CAS can die and be claimed by Death of the Endless. The Cosmic Armor is not a creation of Yahwe and it isn't alive. You have no clue what you are talking about. It is immensely clear that you had no clue The Cosmic Armor wasn't alive, to begin with.

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Y3kthunder

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#41  Edited By Y3kthunder

Yea the 2 powering it can die. Its a concept she claims even concepts none of what I said means that it is alive

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SleepyGypsy

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You've changed your argument then. You went from The Cosmic Armor can die and be killed, to the narratives powering it having the ability to die. And nope. You are incorrect there too, Dr. Manhattan said no matter what you do, Superman will be re-written back into the Orrery.

Superman cannot die in the sense you are claiming he can. Superman can pass away on the individual level. But, Superman cannot die and be claimed by Death of the Endless as a whole and with regard to the entire DC structure. He will just reappear. Doomsday Clock confirmed this. What's your next argument for me to debunk?

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Y3kthunder

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#43  Edited By Y3kthunder

My argument hasn't changed at all cas is a concept death is the death of everything including concepts that was my main point there. For Michael it was the fact that he could make a blast much larger than the one that practically destroyed TR

An yea you kill all the orrey an superman has no where to go no where to be rewritten you claim that universe gg

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olajoe1

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#44  Edited By olajoe1

@sleepygypsy: Bro you have absolutely no proff nix created the presence bro not even the over-void is aware of who made the omniverse because it wasn't aware of its existence until it got too big.

2. Rox ogamma already feed on the bleed which game him enough power to one-shot his entire race soo he was already amped

3. Nix uton didnt crate the entire omniverse or dream it. he woke up AS IF HE DREAMED IT. but he didn't. as far as we know Micheal and lucifer created everything

Monitor's are powerful but they are not on micheal's level the greatst feat ever shown by thought robot was holding dc 52' universes + the entirety of limbo that is a High multiversal level feet but not omniversal which is where micheal is at

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SleepyGypsy

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@olajoe1 said:

@sleepygypsy: Bro you have absolutely no proff nix created the presence bro not even the over-void is aware of who made the omniverse because it wasn't aware of its existence until it got too big.

Author said Nix Uotan did. Again, your view point here is based on your own religious views and preferences, assuming that Overvoid JUST HAS TO KNOW what that is. God doesn't have to do anything. If it prefers to be Naive, it will be. Overvoid simply never noticed that anyone else drew on it. Where did it say things got too big and that at that point Monitor Mind was aware of its existence? "Monitor Mind noticed a flaw". He was already aware of his existence.

2. Rox ogamma already feed on the bleed which game him enough power to one-shot his entire race soo he was already amped

Rox Ogama had his powers removed by the Nil Council when he was sent into the Flaw. He didn't feed on anything after that point.

3. Nix uton didnt crate the entire omniverse or dream it. he woke up AS IF HE DREAMED IT. but he didn't. as far as we know Micheal and lucifer created everything

He literally dove into DC Comics off his mattress.

Monitor's are powerful but they are not on micheal's level the greatst feat ever shown by thought robot was holding dc 52' universes + the entirety of limbo that is a High multiversal level feet but not omniversal which is where micheal is at

There are infinite Multiverses and creations in DC beyond the ones The Presence made.

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Here is Nix Uotan proving there are more than just the local 52. He is outside of that Multiverse in this scan.

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and fictions contained by The CAS.

All fictions exist in the Orrery, The Presence and DC's creation is just one of them. The Presence and creation of Vertigo Sandman is another. Vertigo Lucifer is another. Here is the author saying even Marvel and Crossovers was contained in there.

All of this, was wrapped around by the Cosmic Armor like a prison.

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and in Video

Loading Video...

Please let me know if there are any other things you need debunked.

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SleepyGypsy

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#46  Edited By SleepyGypsy

There are no material things in Limbo, its the concepetual place where Michael gets retconned to. You can scream this was physical all day long, but the comic debunked you and I don't need to do anything but post the scans of what it says. No "blasts" there.

I enjoy how you and the others here think Non-existence and the concepts of Platonics battling...are a physical fight somewhere in outer space.

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He is a concept, all of them, and here you are saying he is being hit with a physical force?

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Y3kthunder's way of debating is to alter the text to say whatever it wants. Not going to work. No explosion, even an infinitely powerful one, can destroy a Platonic Concept...I can't even believe I am hearing someone say explosions can destroy concepts, let alone the idea of all ideas.

Sadly, The Spectre and Radiant cannot die without the Presence dying first. How did Rox Ogama take them out after this was said? One single issue later, both are dead at the hands of Rox Ogama, a Monitor who had no Monitor powers at the time he obliterated them and the army of God too.

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@y3kthunder said:

My argument hasn't changed at all cas is a concept death is the death of everything including concepts that was my main point there. For Michael it was the fact that he could make a blast much larger than the one that practically destroyed TR

An yea you kill all the orrey an superman has no where to go no where to be rewritten you claim that universe gg

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Y3kthunder

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I see a lot of crying here Michael hasn't ever been retconned. True of the matter of fact each of the endless are the actual concept in the most literal sense an arent physical yet Michael an lucifer are both superiors so yea he can do the sane to cas ive not altered jack an no one appreciates to trying to lower anyone to ur standards.

An no rox never killed the presence this is your headcannon an has been debunked long time ago

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SleepyGypsy

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@y3kthunder: "explosions can delete Platonic Concepts" -Y3kthunder (2/15/2020)

In the most respectful way, you will never be responded to by me again, that should make you happy. You've solidified you are baiting everyone here and have no clue what you are talking about.

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Y3kthunder

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Good I hope you don't your cancerous dude an everyone here knows it. An its not like its a simple explosion its the presences power an yea he is superior to the endless sorry facts offend you stay salty

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DrakoTheGhoul

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I'm not arguing for any side here as i don't really care for this matchup or any matchup with the Monitors as it's nothing but a circular argument.

Anyway i just noticed that some individuals keep throwing around Pax Dei this, Pax Dei that and I've just realized after looking into it, these are some weak angels Morrison created along with his weak version of the presence...

why are some compositing or should i say merging these weak angels and his inferior version of the Presence with Vertigos as a way to downplay Lucifer and Michael from their original Vertigo run? The Pax Dei are featless canon fodder from JLA and Final Crisis, hell even Morrison's version of The Presence is nearly featless and has never appeared if I'm not mistaken(i could be wrong though).

Morrison version of The Presence also isn't the same as Vertigos and hell even main DCs as in N52 The Presence was still doing his own thing in The Phantom Stranger like nothing happened and even the N52 Vertigo run Presence was supposedly killed by Gabriel then turned evil in that storyline.

The thing is some of you can't say that the weak version of Mandrakk that came back in that DC Unexpected issues isn't the same Mandrakk or The Nil that they traveled to isn't the real one but sit here championing Morrison's version of these characters as if they are their Vertigo counterparts.

My overall point in this is why are Morrison weak versions being combined and compared to Vertigo Michael and Lucifer who are leagues above them But whenever that weak Mandrakk is brought up who lost, got his entire being changed and then kicked back to the Dark Multiverse doesn't count even though Final Crisis is referenced multiple times or the fact that lower dimensional beings such as Hawkman were able to go to Nil in the first place when Nil supposedly isn't apart of DC anymore after Limbo?

I'll happily back off if someone can show me even one scan in the original Vertigo series(so no n52 vertigo which isn't Canon at all) of anyone ever calling the Angels, Pax Dei, as that group/order isn't a thing at all in vertigo.