Corporate Wars 2020 - Round 1 - Shade545 vs. ANTHP2000 (CLOSED)

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#1  Edited By geekryan  Online

Shade545

Characters:

  • X-23 - 3
  • Edward Elric (FMA) - 2
  • Shang Tsung (Original Timeline) - 1
No Caption Provided

Sponsor: Stark Industries

Perk: Iron Legion (Three Age of Ultron Iron Legion suits controlled via AI by JARVIS aid your team)

No Caption Provided

ANTHP2000

Characters:

  • Batman - 2
  • Black Widow - 2
  • Deadshot - 2
No Caption Provided

Sponsor: Galactic Empire

Perk: Probe Droid (Every 10 seconds, your team is updated with the exact location of the enemy team on the map)

Tournament Rules

  • Video game and book characters get composite feats (as long as they remain the same point value)
  • Canon tie-in comics are allowed
  • Marvel characters are standard/base 616 versions. However, you can also choose characters from the Ultimate (Earth 1610) universe
  • DC characters are composite across Pre-52, New-52, and Rebirth
  • Everyone is in character and starts with their standard gear
  • No character can be amped above a 3-point character
  • Each team will get 1 full day of training together in order to get basic knowledge on each other and ensure decent teamwork. Every character on the team will also get a communication device in order to stay in contact during the mission.
  • There will be 12 corporate sponsors, and each one can only be picked once. Once a sponsor has been chosen, it cannot be chosen by anyone else. Each sponsor will have 3 perk choices, and you may only choose one perk for each round. If you make it to the next round, you can change your perk.
  • Some perks may involve summons or fodder to help your team. Additionally, every battlefield will involve some amount of fodder such as civilians and/or guards. They can be ignored, killed, manipulated, etc.
  • Must have completed a CaV/tournament or have over 500 posts in order to join. If you do not intend to see this tournament through to the end, please do not join. Thank you.
  • 3 posts each with 7 days to post
  • You will be bumped on the 3rd and 6th days
  • If you need an extension, let me know before the 7 days are up and I will allow you a 3-day extension (for a total of 10 days)
  • Failure to post on time will result in disqualification and an automatic victory for your opponent

Banned Powers/Abilities

  • Reality Warping
  • Time Manipulation
  • Space Manipulation
  • Luck Manipulation
  • Power Copying/Stealing
  • Speed Stealing
  • Precognition (things like Spider-Sense are fine)
  • Immortality
  • Instant-Kill attacks
  • Internal Attacks
  • Permanent Intangibility
  • Cloning

Limits

  • BFR cannot be used on the opposing team but can be used against summons and fodder.
  • Intangibility, teleporting, and transmutation as offensive attacks cannot be used on the opposing team but can be used against summons and fodder.
  • Teleportation is limited to line of sight, and cannot be used to teleport within 50 feet of the mission's objective.
  • Telekinesis and similar abilities cannot be directly used on the bodies of the opposing team but can be used on their gear, or against summons and fodder. TK blasts against the opposing team are allowed.
  • Telepathy: mind reading and telepathic communication are fully allowed on everyone on the battlefield. Mind control, illusions, and other psychic attacks can only be used on summons and fodder. This applies to soul abilities, pheromones, gas, and magic-based telepathy as well.
  • Gear and hax must remain street-level.
  • Summons made by your own characters cannot exceed 1-point characters. You cannot have more than 5 summons for the entire mission.
  • Regeneration is limited to 616 Wolverine level.
  • Invisibility is allowed but it can only affect the sense of sight.

If you are unsure about any of the rules/limits, please ask! It is better to ask in advance than to risk being disqualified from going above the limits or breaking rules.

You have SIX points to spend on characters in order to form your team.

Essentially, 1-point characters are low-street, 2-point characters are mid-street, and 3-point characters are high-street.

The criteria for each category is the maximum. If the criteria is wall level, then it cannot exceed wall level but it can be below wall level. Wall level is the capability of a character to break through a brick wall in one strike, or to completely destroy a whole brick wall in a few strikes.

Wall level refers to a standard brick wall. House level refers to a standard two-story house. Small building level refers to a standard building with no more than 4 stories.

Speed refers to movement and reaction speeds.

Low Street Level (1 point)

  • Striking Strength: Wall Level
  • Lifting Strength: 1 Ton
  • Durability: Wall Level (Fully susceptible to arrows/bullets)
  • Speed: Arrow-Deflecting (or less than Mach 1, i.e. not supersonic)
  • Energy Projection: Wall Level

Example Character: CW Arrow

Mid Street Level (2 points)

  • Striking Strength: House Level
  • Lifting Strength: 5 Tons
  • Durability: House Level (Arrow-proof is allowed)
  • Speed: Non-Casual Bullet Dodging or Casual Arrow-Deflecting (supersonic, Mach 1-2)
  • Energy Projection: House Level

Example Character: Bane (without Venom)

High Street Level (3 points)

  • Striking Strength: Small Building Level
  • Lifting Strength: 10-15 Tons
  • Durability: Small Building Level (Bullet-proof against small arms gunfire is allowed)
  • Speed: Casual Bullet Dodging or Bullet Deflecting (supersonic+, Mach 3)
  • Energy Projection: Small Building Level

Example Character: Black Panther

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/corporate-wars-tournament-2020-edition-full-2074103/?page=1

Voting Rules

  • Only the two participants are allowed to debate
  • If you want to be tagged to vote at the end, say "T4V"
  • Vote for whoever was the best debater, or who convinced you more, not for which team you think would win
  • Make sure to provide reasoning for your vote
  • Votes based on obvious character bias will not be counted
  • Be respectful, honourable, and civil

Mission: Search & Destroy

Team A (Shade) must bring a briefcase bomb to a designated building ("C"), place the briefcase in the center of the building, activate the 5-second detonator, and exit the building. Team B (ANTHP) must stop the building from being destroyed by any means necessary.

There are 15 civilians and 5 guards spread throughout the map, with 3 additional guards positioned near the designated building. The guards are on high alert and will shoot either team on sight. Each guard is a trained Navy Seal equipped with an assault rifle and combat knife. Civilians will not attack, but they will scream and alert nearby guards if they feel threatened or are attacked. There are also five security cameras around the map, two of which are aimed at the designated building. Being caught in a hostile act by a security camera will alert all the guards. All the cameras are on street-level.

Team A Objective: Destroy the building (activate bomb or eliminate enemy team first)

Team B Objective: Protect the building (eliminate the enemy team or sabotage bomb)

Ilios map from Overwatch
Ilios map from Overwatch

A = Shade545 Spawn Point

B = ANTHP2000 Spawn Point

C = Designated Building

Best of luck!

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geekryan

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#2 geekryan  Online
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ANTHP2000

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@shade545 Once the perks are announced, are you okay with going first? I know nothing of Shang Tsung and it's been a while since I watched FMA. I can open too if you're unable too, though.

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Tag 4 every post

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Shade545

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#6  Edited By geekryan  Online

@shade545@anthp2000 Both teams know where the building ("C") is located.

Perk choices have been added to the OP, so you can begin now.

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Shade545

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@geekryan: Two questions before i start

If i wanted, could i have one of the Iron Legion suits carry the briefcase?

Are the teams aware of the guards existence?

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#8 geekryan  Online

@shade545 said:

@geekryan: Two questions before i start

If i wanted, could i have one of the Iron Legion suits carry the briefcase?

Are the teams aware of the guards existence?

Someone on your team has to carry the briefcase, not fodder/summons.

Yes, they are aware of the guards and civilians.

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T4V

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Shade545

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@geekryan: Okay more question before i get started on my post

Are there any environmental hazards on the battlefield and if so where are they located? I haven't played Overwatch so i wouldn't know.

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#11 geekryan  Online

@shade545 said:

@geekryan: Okay more question before i get started on my post

Are there any environmental hazards on the battlefield and if so where are they located? I haven't played Overwatch so i wouldn't know.

That circle in the middle of the map, next to C, is a pitfall that leads to instant death. Beyond that, no. You can always youtube the "overwatch ilios map overview" and you'll find videos showing all of it. Keep in mind that there are 3 Ilios maps though, so make sure you check the right one.

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X-23

No Caption Provided

You can read her bio here

Claws

Due to her claws being coated in adamantium she is able to cut through just about anything and everything. This section is to simply show you the potency of her claws and that she should be able to cut through anyone in this tourney.

Cuts Cho Hulks skin

Cuts through Drax

Cuts out WW Hulks eyes

Speed

X-23 is probably the fastest character in this match. And has the feats to prove it.

Kills a group of soldiers before a timer goes off

Dodges a bullet after its been fired at close range

Blocks a bullet with her claws

Kills a group of soldiers in a very short amount of time

Cuts an arrow after its been fired while lying on the ground

Moves as a blur

Strength

X-23 also has amazing strength.

Rips off a metal door

Rips off a piece of metal

Breaks through armored glass with ease

Throws a cleaver with enough force to pierce armored soldiers

Durability/Healing Factor

X-23 is extremely difficult to put down due to her healing factor and pain tolerance.

Heals from having a lot of her flesh burned off

Literally makes a joke out of getting riddled with bullets

A large amount of grenades blowing has little effect on her

Survives falling out of an airplane

Fire has little effect on her

Can reattach body parts

Can briefly survive in space

Edward Elric

Shang Tsung

No Caption Provided

You can read his bio here

Sorcery

Tsung has pretty impressive magic abilities. Which include morphing and fire based offensive attacks.

Can lift opponents with his magic

Can morph into other beings

Summons a fire snake

His fireballs can knocks away a group of combatants except for Shao Kahn

Iron Legion

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Iron_Legion

I have 3 Iron Legion suits helping me out. This video pretty much shows you what they are capable of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxDQh_-vJss

The Fight

Once the fight starts, my team will advance forward until we see some security cameras, Edward will then knock out all electricity in our area. Which would mean we don't have to deal with the cameras on our side of the battlefield but you do. We will then send out one or two Iron Legion suits to deal with any guards that may be near. X-23 will then kill any guards that happen to survive From there its simple. All of my team raids the building at once, places the bomb in the building and detonates it. The guards near the building won't be a problem at all and the briefcase will be held by Tsung, who will be protected by the rest of my team. Meanwhile your job will be much harder, having to not only get by any guards that may be in your way but also get to the briefcase which will be well protected by Tsung, X-23, Edward, and 3 Iron Legion suits. If our team does fight however, i think my team takes it rather easily. Edward can block my team with constructs if need be and restrain your team as well, X-23 is going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible for your team to put down, and Tsung morph into your team or a guard, throwing your team off. Overall, in order for your team to get the briefcase you will have to get through

3 Iron Legion suits

X-23

Edward

And Tsung

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#13  Edited By Shade545
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#16  Edited By ANTHP2000

Post #1: Opening.

I will first make some small introductions on my characters and the useful part of their equipment. Then initiate the counters to get the debate going. First off, the versions I'm using for all my characters are composite Pre/New 52 + Rebirth and 616 respectively. And before everything else, I want to get out of the way that Batman and Deadshot, while enemies, have worked together in the past (Suicide Squad V5#41 - #44) and clashed for the sole reason of their different moral codes, which, as per @geekryan, will not be an issue here [1]. And finally, something that's true for both of us here, the teams will be having 1 full day of training together.

I. Bruce Wayne, Batman.

No Caption Provided

Having witnessed the murder of his parents first hand, Bruce decided he'd become a vigilante and fight crime from a young age. Using his wealth, he grew up to become the most feared masked hero and the world's greatest detective, trained himself to the highest possible human levels of physical condition, martial arts, stealth and all related skills to develop the identity of the Dark Knight.
================================================

Batman is notorious for being the best at everything, which, all jokes aside, is the truth. He's the perfect detective, the perfect ninja, the perfect weapon specialist, the perfect fighter, the perfect athlete. We'll forcus on some core parts of his skill set here that might prove efficient against my opponent's team: Batman is an inhumanly capable master of stealth, so much that he can spy on the entire Justice League while in the same room as them without them realising until he reveals himself [1] (Green Arrow VIII#4). The roster includes Superman and Wonder Woman, both of whom have superhuman senses that would make Daredevil blush.

=> [Deathstroke V4#34]

To demonstrate Batman's combat ability, I've chosen a rather recent fight between him and Deathstroke, one of his primary rivals since forever. And I chose this one because it involves an adequate blend of Batman's skill set; his martial arts, his mobility and his resourcefulness along with some gear-play: he opens the fight by throwing some batarangs at Slade, and he cuts them down. While they trade blows, it is revealed that Bruce had counted on Slade slicing a batarang apart with his sword, as they are sonic devices that summoned a swarm of bats to throw him off. Batman grabs Slade's sword and goes up against his staff, which quickly evolves in a ranged battle. Batman uses his grappling gun to dodge the fire, gain the high ground and land his energy discs on Slade, before closing in disarming him and matching him until they both go down.

This more or less shows that Batman has the potential to match Deathstroke 1 on 1, Deathstroke being a metahuman assassin who has near effortlessly made fools of the team of Green Arrow and Black Canary [1] (Green Arrow V3#75) before the Justice League intervened, and has dodged bullets after they've been fired [2] (The New Titans V2#62).

II. Natasha Romanoff, Black Widow.

No Caption Provided

Natalia Alianovna Romanova was taken in as a young child by the Red Room, wing of the KGB, to be trained as the perfect human weapon - the finest spy, covert specialist and one of the most dangerous assassins on the planet. There, she was trained in all forms of physical combat and Black Ops, brainwashed to serve the Soviets until she broke free and used her code name Black Widow to serve in SHIELD and the Avengers.
================================================

As Captain America has said, 'no one works better in the shadows than the Black Widow', she's a highily skilled stealth artist. Here, Natasha notices an undercover sniper on top of a multi-story antenna tower from a great distance away, gets out of her car and ghosts the sniper all in broad daylight with him having full view of her.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Black Widow V3#5

However, her most impressive showcase is probably back in one of her team ups with Spider-Man, when, in order to get back to him for sneaking up on her, she sneaks up on him before his Spider Sense - not as advanced back in the Bronze Age, but still impossibly strong - can fully operate and warn him of her position [1] (Marvel Team-Up V1#98). Her stealth training goes hand in hand with both her versatile loadout, as well as her training as an assassin - I won't be getting into this further though since it won't be needed here, instead I will mention that she's an excellent fighter.

=> [Black Widow V4#3]

Learning that Natasha had been gathering intel on her, amongst others, for years, Elektra Natchios confronts Widow and they fight an even duel that ends in a total stalemate. Natasha's only using her dual guns in CQ, opening and closing distance when necessary, to match Elektra blow for blow until they decide it will lead to nothing. Keep in mind that Elektra has the reputation of the most feared assassin in Marvel, and she has proven herself through challenging the likes of Iron Fist [1] (Defenders V5#7). Keep in mind that in this very same fight with Natasha, she slices a bullet in half using her Sai.

III. Floyd Lawton, Deadshot.

No Caption Provided

Floyd Lawton grew up in an abusive environment; his father's drinking issues and violent behavior towards his mother, his brother and himself traumatised him until one day he decided to take matter to his own hands, grabbing a firearm and take his father's life himself. One moment is all it took to miss and shoot his brother dead instead however, and Floyd swore to never miss another shot in his life, trained to eventually become Deadshot, the world's greatest assassin.
================================================

Deadshot is an inhumanly good shot, that's more or less his entire style as an assassin - he's the most skilled sniper in DC. He can land a perfect headshot on a moving target from a 5 miles (over 8,000 meters) distance [1] (Suicide Squad: Hell To Pay: V1#6). Take note of the specialised ammo he uses. He can land a pinpoint shot on a powered armor using a specialised custom bullet while skydropping one mile high, then land another bullet on the exact same spot after switching weapons to kill the man inside [2] (Justice League of America V3#7.1).

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight V1#214
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight V1#214

In addition, we've seen Floyd is an expert in trickshots, ergo ricocheting bullets off of surfaces to hit impossible angles efficiently. Above you can see him hitting a wall close to him to ricochet the bullet and land a headshot on a surprise target several yards away and on higher ground. He did this casually and with his back turned - without having seeing the target previously, but using his senses to pinpoint the exact location.

Due to what Floyd is supposed to do in this battle I don't feel the need to present more than that for him. He is only going to act as a sniper after all - which brings me to the final section of my post.

IV. Gameplan. Counters. Conclusion.

Never having played overwatched, I did some research on the battlefield, and apparently Ilios is a fictional town based on a famous greek island, which gives access to 3 maps. Geek has picked a map called 'The Well', which has a well/pit in the middle of the town. Here's a video navigating the battlefield to give everyone a better look:

Loading Video...

Now, the whole setting is advantageous to us, since it is full of small buildings easy to navigate, letting room for the use of stealth, agility and range. So, for starters, Deadshot will go on the highest possible vantage point, granting him full view of the town given his radius is at least as good as 5 miles - much higher than what the location has to offer (there's always a chance that Widow would set camp as a sniper too, but that is not what she should do here, and that's why I didn't bring up any feats for her on that category). So, her and Bruce will approach in stealth mode and get closer to the central building.

With an update on your team's location every 10 seconds, and a long range of vision both on Floyd's and the duo's part through specialised tech, figuring out who they are won't be an issue. And while we don't know anything about Ed or Tsun Lung, Natasha has worked together with X-23 on more than occasion, and has actually relied on her damage soak / healing factor to help her complete missions (Black Widow V5#11), meaning she's more than aware of her threat level and what it takes to drop her. This all means that Deadshot can immediate snipe either Edward or Lung and kill them at any range so long as they're not actively covering themselves. Basically, 2/3ds of your team will probably be dead before they even come close to the center of the town. Once Nat sees Laura, she'll know they have to get around her damage soak using other means and not brute force - this includes incapacitation via tranquilizers, knock out gas, freeze rays, the Widow's Bite, sonics... or even a powered sniper bullet to the head, which I don't know if she can survive. Mission accomplished.

Which would mean we don't have to deal with the cameras on our side of the battlefield but you do.

The cameras and/or the guards won't be an issue. Firstly, Batman and Widow are virtually invisible if they want to be through stealth. But even if they aren't, Navy Seals cannot even slow them down. One batarang or thrown knife, a bullet or a sniper shot from Floyd is all needed to kill anyone in the way, assuming they even become visible to any civilian or guard.

Meanwhile your job will be much harder, having to not only get by any guards that may be in your way but also get to the briefcase which will be well protected by Tsung, X-23, Edward, and 3 Iron Legion suits.

I honestly don't see how it's harder. We have advantages your trio doesn't have, important ones: range and visuals. Deadshot knows exactly where each member of your team is located every 10 seconds, and he can just end them at any moment. AFAIK, the only characters of yours arguably capable of dodging a high caliber bullet out of nowhere is Laura, and she cannot protect the team on her own. The Iron Legion suits are nothing but distractions either, seeing as how Deadshot has shot right through bulletproof opposition before, including Killer Crock [1] (Suicide Squad V5#21) and Deathstroke [2] (New Suicide Squad V1#4) - I can provide scans for both of these characters to prove they're bulletproof if necessary, but I don't want to scan bomb. Furthermore, if anything, that fact that your plan is this:

All of my team raids the building at once

makes my job all the easier. Deadshot won't even have to turn around to immediately kill them all. Wether or not X-23 can deflect a sniper shot is up to you, but there's a chance she goes down too.

You also brought up Ed's constructs as an issue. Normally, it would be given how powerful he is, but given we start out of sight, Ed (and the rest of your characters) are poorly equipped to deal with stealth artists and snipers, so he's more than likely going down before your team even knows who or what they're up against. And even if he does pull a contruct to protect your team, an explosive of this caliber [1] (Captain America and Black Widow V1#638) will kill everyone besides Laurel right behind your shield. Knock out gas will take them out too, and a ricocheted bullet from Deadshot is another way to bypass any shield.

Conclusively,

  1. My team has a strong range advantage. Knowing exactly where your team is and having visuals on them, as well as being fully aware of X-23's superhuman abilities thanks to Natasha's experience with her, eliminating your team, which as you said will also be moving as a unit, should be easy. While you haven't gone all out explaining their abilities yet, I don't think Tsung, Ed or Stark's suits have an answer to a sniper.
  2. The guards in the area won't be an issue, assuming my team even becomes visible to them at any point.
  3. Assuming Laura survives the initial assault and reaches the center of the town, Batman and Widow will be there to stop her: they have more than a few ways to do it. Electricity, sonics, toxin, gas, as well as Deadshot backup.
  4. Assuming Ed survives the initial assult too - somehow - getting through his defences is easier than it sounds, through trickshots or my team's stealth and gear, giving us loads of firepower on top of the ways of incapacitation mentioned above.

@shade545 ball's on your court.

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Keep up the good work guys tag me when you're done. I've been reading both of your posts and watching your debate. Amazing job to the both of you so far!

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Shade545

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#19  Edited By Shade545

Counters

With an update on your team's location every 10 seconds, and a long range of vision both on Floyd's and the duo's part through specialised tech, figuring out who they are won't be an issue. And while we don't know anything about Ed or Tsun Lung, Natasha has worked together with X-23 on more than occasion, and has actually relied on her damage soak / healing factor to help her complete missions (Black Widow V5#11), meaning she's more than aware of her threat level and what it takes to drop her. This all means that Deadshot can immediate snipe either Edward or Lung and kill them at any range so long as they're not actively covering themselves. Basically, 2/3ds of your team will probably be dead before they even come close to the center of the town. Once Nat sees Laura, she'll know they have to get around her damage soak using other means and not brute force - this includes incapacitation via tranquilizers, knock out gas, freeze rays, the Widow's Bite, sonics... or even a powered sniper bullet to the head, which I don't know if she can survive. Mission accomplished.

Laura being knocked out before reaching the building for 2 reasons

1: She has more than enough speed to get to the building before your team can attack her

2: She's being protected by two teammates and three Iron Legion suits

And even if Deadshot could snipe from that far across the map, why would he choose to shoot Ed or Tsung?

Does your team even have access to some of the weapons you say they do?

You also said that Deadshot needs to get a vantage point to snipe our team while by that time my team should already be near the building with Laura probably already there.

The cameras and/or the guards won't be an issue. Firstly, Batman and Widow are virtually invisible if they want to be through stealth. But even if they aren't, Navy Seals cannot even slow them down. One batarang or thrown knife, a bullet or a sniper shot from Floyd is all needed to kill anyone in the way, assuming they even become visible to any civilian or guard.

Both of our teams could easily dispatch of the guards but our can do i even easier meaning the guards will slow you your team down more than mine.

I honestly don't see how it's harder. We have advantages your trio doesn't have, important ones: range and visuals. Deadshot knows exactly where each member of your team is located every 10 seconds, and he can just end them at any moment. AFAIK, the only characters of yours arguably capable of dodging a high caliber bullet out of nowhere is Laura, and she cannot protect the team on her own. The Iron Legion suits are nothing but distractions either, seeing as how Deadshot has shot right through bulletproof opposition before, including Killer Crock [1] (Suicide Squad V5#21) and Deathstroke [2] (New Suicide Squad V1#4) - I can provide scans for both of these characters to prove they're bulletproof if necessary, but I don't want to scan bomb. Furthermore, if anything, that fact that your plan is this:

If Deadshot can see our team, why would he need to be updated of our location? Laura can just simply run to the building with her blur speed and detonate the bomb. And the Iron Legion suits survived blows from Mjolnir so i doubt Deadshot could take them out that way.

makes my job all the easier. Deadshot won't even have to turn around to immediately kill them all. Wether or not X-23 can deflect a sniper shot is up to you, but there's a chance she goes down too.

You also brought up Ed's constructs as an issue. Normally, it would be given how powerful he is, but given we start out of sight, Ed (and the rest of your characters) are poorly equipped to deal with stealth artists and snipers, so he's more than likely going down before your team even knows who or what they're up against. And even if he does pull a contruct to protect your team, an explosive of this caliber [1] (Captain America and Black Widow V1#638) will kill everyone besides Laurel right behind your shield. Knock out gas will take them out too, and a ricocheted bullet from Deadshot is another way to bypass any shield.

He isn't going to be able to hit a blur speed target much less in the head

Batman and Black Widow aren't going to do much to Ed in a fight especially with Tsung backing him up. Your team won't even get to use the explosive before they are killed, so Deadshot isn't much help here.

Summary

  • You haven't convinced me that your team can take down Laura before she can reach the building much less when protected by the rest of my team
  • We have the numbers
  • Deadshot won't find an vantage point before Laura reaches the building
  • The guards will slow you down more than it will mine
  • Batman and Black Widow are going down fast considering they will fight my team head on

@anthp2000

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@shade545 said:

@professorrespect short counter but my opponent didn't give me much to reply to.

Aha. I will respond, probably by today.

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#22  Edited By ANTHP2000

Post #2: Counters.

I'll break down the counters in individual categories as I always do in order to make it easier both for the readers and us to go through. I'll also try to bring all my cards on the table in this post because my opponent will not have the chance to respond to new arguments after this round.

I. General Statements.

Firstly, I want to note an inconsistency between your posts. In your opening statement, you said that it will be Tsung carrying the briefcase:

The guards near the building won't be a problem at all and the briefcase will be held by Tsung, who will be protected by the rest of my team.

but now you're saying it's Laura who will be carrying the briefcase and be protected by the rest of the team. In any case, we'll go over both ways, but I wanted to point this out.

And even if Deadshot could snipe from that far across the map, why would he choose to shoot Ed or Tsung?

There's no 'even if', he can. I broke down 2 feats of him shooting from a much higher distance than the one here; he can. And not once did I say he'd choose to shoot any of them. I said he will shoot all of them in some order. And he can, since you have not brought up any showings of speed/sensory required to defend against a sniper for anyone here - even Laura is questionable since you've only shown her defending against handgun bullets while looking at the shooter.

The fact that (a) you chose for them to be in close proximity with one another and (b) that we get constant updates on their exact location is just icing on the cake.

If Deadshot can see our team, why would he need to be updated of our location?

I don't think he needs it, per se. But it ensures your team cannot hide from mine, even behind cover or between buildings.

Does your team even have access to some of the weapons you say they do?

I took the time to sight both scans and sources for each and every piece of weaponry I listed in my post, and they're right there for everyone to see. If what you mean is that you need 'evidence' that they're standard I can provide more scans of them being used on other occasions as well. They are part of my team's loadout consistently when they're battle/mission ready.

Both of our teams could easily dispatch of the guards but our can do i even easier meaning the guards will slow you your team down more than mine.

There's no reason why your team can dispatch of the guards easier. To correct you, my team will not be slowed down at all. Again, it's very questionable if anyone will even notice Bruce and Natasha while in stealth mode, and even if they do it takes no more than a thrown knife or batarang or a gunshot to drop the guards. Seriously, my team does not even have to look to mow them down [1] (Red Widow: First Strike), they won't be slowed down.

I don't think the guards will slow you down either to be honest, I think they're not factors.

II. X-23's Speed.

The main issue I have with this is that there seems to be an assumption that Laura is a speedster of some kind. She's not, she might be able to move at FTE/blur speeds in small bursts and limited movements, but she's not the Flash. This is helpful with intercepting projectiles or actions, like in your scan, but I've seen nothing to suggest she can cover a large distance with obstacles like this running at blur speeds. Feel free to provide examples if you have.

You also said that Deadshot needs to get a vantage point to snipe our team while by that time my team should already be near the building with Laura probably already there.

I already adressed this above, but I want to mention that getting on higher ground will not take more than 2 seconds. We already start on rooftops, Floyd will just use his grappling hook to get to the nearest taller building.

Laura being knocked out before reaching the building for 2 reasons

1: She has more than enough speed to get to the building before your team can attack her

2: She's being protected by two teammates and three Iron Legion suits

There's several issues I have with this first statement. For one, what I already mentioned above. Laura is, at best, slightly faster than my team when it comes to crossing distances. I mean, peak humans in comic books can also move at blur or FTE speeds momentarily. Here, Bruce appears right behind Batwoman's back from more than 10 feet in front of her in the time it takes for her bombs to explode:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Batwoman V1#A1

And Natasha could cross an over 10 feet distance and blitz a shooter while moving comparably fast to his bullet - she both percieves it and reaches him before the fire ends [1] (Daredevil V2#63). So really, I don't see why Laura appearing as a blur while tackling someone from behind is supposed to prove she can cross a small town and reach a building before my team catches up to her. Secondly, you yourself stated twice now that your team will be protecting one another. So even if Laura was, hypothetically, as fast as you thought, her own teammates would draw her back. And finally, you are assuming my team does not have ranged options. Even outside of Deadshot, Natasha and Bruce have long range weapons with high AoE that can incapacitate her. I already mentioned sonic weapons, knock out gas, tranq darts and a freeze ray - she has no resistence to any of these. The Widow's Bite can also stun her, packing up to 30,000 volts of force, like it did this android assassin sent by S.H.I.E.L.D. [2] (Marvel Knights V1#13). The same android no sold high caliber fire, without even budging or slowing down - durability well past Laura's tier:

Marvel Knights V1#13
Marvel Knights V1#13

There are also explosives, flash bombs and smoke grenades that can effectively blind her and slow her down if not outright stop her. And all these are available to use from range, even assuming Bruce or Natasha cannot catch up to Laura on equal grounds, which I'm not really convinced of either if I'm being honest. And to bring the sniper back to the conversation:

He isn't going to be able to hit a blur speed target much less in the head

That is not true. Even without the use of a sniper and perks that come with it, Floyd has proven his inhuman skill translates well to speed and reactions required to hit fast paced targets. After all, he never misses:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Suicide Squad: Raise the Flag V1#4

Captain Boomerang can sprint at blur speeds just like you showed Laura doing, and Floyd basically toyed with him. And he did so while letting him know he can see each beat of a hummingbird's wing, you know this: [1]. Additionally, we've seen him shoot Green Arrow's arrows right out of the air from almost point blank range [2]. Adding in the visual aid a sniper riffle offers, I don't see why he cannot pin her down. The question, for me, is wether or not she's fast enough to defend against a sniper shot, but at least based on what you've shown, she can't.

III. My Team Vs. Yours.

And the Iron Legion suits survived blows from Mjolnir so i doubt Deadshot could take them out that way.

They didn't. In the scene you posted, we see Thor fighting the bots 4 times. The first time he deflects a charging armor with Mjolnir and launches it away: we don't see how it ended up taking the hit, but considering we saw the jets on its feet shutting down, it's more fair to assume he put it down than the other way around. Second time he charges at one of them and punches it without using his weapon. Third time he hits an armor on its leg and completely destroys it then pins it against the wall and throws it down (damage which is enough to rip it in half), Then we see Cap throwing the remaining half on Thor again and he destroys it using Mjolnir.

Collectively, we saw much less damage (a throw through thin metal bars and a low fall) breaking their bodies in half, and the 2 times we saw the effects Mjolnir's hits had on the armors, they ended up destroying the armors. So I think it's not really fair to assume that armor survived the hit in the beginning just because we didn't see it shut down. And to add to that, we also saw Cap's shield throw busting another armor, which would make it further inconsistent for them to tank Mjolnir attacks.

The only relevant durability feats for them consist of tanking shots from Widow and Maria Hill, but that is no better than what Killer Croc [1] (Batwoman V1#21) and Deathstroke [2] (Faces of Evil: Deathstroke) have shown, and Floyd has shot right through them.

Batman and Black Widow aren't going to do much to Ed in a fight especially with Tsung backing him up. Your team won't even get to use the explosive before they are killed, so Deadshot isn't much help here.

More issues here. Firstly, you have not brought up a single feat suggesting anyone besides Laura even stands a chance at surviving Deadshot's assault. Second, even if they did, you also assumed that Bruce and Natasha will be fighting head on - which isn't the case since they'll be in stealth mode. Third, even if they were going for a head on fight, you've not mentioned why it would be one sided in any case. You just said it will be. So I don't think I have anything more to counter on that for now.

IV. Conclusion.

My strategy remains the same. 2/3ds of your team, as well as Stark's armors, are going down to Deadshot. Laura might as well go down because if she survives that, she will have to deal with Batman and Widow, who can catch up to her just fine. One way or another, the briefcase is ours. I'll admit your team is strong, that's clear, but they're not well suited to take on operatives with the skill sets my team brings to the table.

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Counters

Firstly, I want to note an inconsistency between your posts. In your opening statement, you said that it will be Tsung carrying the briefcase:

I figured it wouldn't really make a difference who held it TBH but it must have been an oversight on my part. Tsung will hold it.

There's no 'even if', he can. I broke down 2 feats of him shooting from a much higher distance than the one here; he can. And not once did I say he'd choose to shoot any of them. I said he will shoot all of them in some order. And he can, since you have not brought up any showings of speed/sensory required to defend against a sniper for anyone here - even Laura is questionable since you've only shown her defending against handgun bullets while looking at the shooter.

How can you guarantee that Deadshot will be able to shoot anyone across the map? First of all, there's the fact our team start quite a distance away. There are multiple building obstructing Deadshot's view. And not to mention soldiers and cameras spread around the battlefield. There's no guarantee where the cameras or soldier are located, so by having Deadshot snipe people, the sound will no doubt alert people nearby. While my team do not rely on making sounds to make our way toward the building as my team can easily kill any soldiers without alerting others. Deadshot being a sniper will also leave Batman and Black Widow more vulnerable to our team. There is not way the two can beat Laura, Ed, and Tsung all at once. They may be able to beat Tsung in a fight, but X-23 and ED will beat them handily. and in your opener, you said "This all means that Deadshot can immediate snipe either Edward or Lung and kill them at any range so long as they're not actively covering themselves".

The fact that (a) you chose for them to be in close proximity with one another and (b) that we get constant updates on their exact location is just icing on the cake.

This makes it worse for you. Them all being together reduces the chances of Batman and Black Widow beating them even more. And also, Laura has managed to detect an invisible opponent before, so i doubt your team can get the drop on here, and since none of my other characters have senses like she does, them being in a group works to my advantage.

I don't think he needs it, per se. But it ensures your team cannot hide from mine, even behind cover or between buildings.

I disagree. Even with this perk, i doubt he can shoot through a building that far away. Nothing you showed for him convinces me he can do this. And i believe it's worth mentioning that the perk doesn't say anything about being able to tell my characters apart either.

I took the time to sight both scans and sources for each and every piece of weaponry I listed in my post, and they're right there for everyone to see. If what you mean is that you need 'evidence' that they're standard I can provide more scans of them being used on other occasions as well. They are part of my team's loadout consistently when they're battle/mission ready.

Yes please.

There's no reason why your team can dispatch of the guards easier. To correct you, my team will not be slowed down at all. Again, it's very questionable if anyone will even notice Bruce and Natasha while in stealth mode, and even if they do it takes no more than a thrown knife or batarang or a gunshot to drop the guards. Seriously, my team does not even have to look to mow them down [1] (Red Widow: First Strike), they won't be slowed down.

I don't think the guards will slow you down either to be honest, I think they're not factors.

What i meant by that is my team will be able to take them out easier, given Laura's speed and Ed's Alchemy.

The main issue I have with this is that there seems to be an assumption that Laura is a speedster of some kind. She's not, she might be able to move at FTE/blur speeds in small bursts and limited movements, but she's not the Flash. This is helpful with intercepting projectiles or actions, like in your scan, but I've seen nothing to suggest she can cover a large distance with obstacles like this running at blur speeds. Feel free to provide examples if you have.

The blur speeds will help to close the gap much quicker, If you want more examples, she has done this and this, the obstacles really won't be much trouble for her.

I already adressed this above, but I want to mention that getting on higher ground will not take more than 2 seconds. We already start on rooftops, Floyd will just use his grappling hook to get to the nearest taller building.

Being on the tallest building doesn't necessarily guarantee him a clear shot.

There's several issues I have with this first statement. For one, what I already mentioned above. Laura is, at best, slightly faster than my team when it comes to crossing distances. I mean, peak humans in comic books can also move at blur or FTE speeds momentarily. Here, Bruce appears right behind Batwoman's back from more than 10 feet in front of her in the time it takes for her bombs to explode:

Moving at FTE speeds is something Laura commonly does. And as i shown, Laura has more impressive speed feats than that.

And Natasha could cross an over 10 feet distance and blitz a shooter while moving comparably fast to his bullet - she both percieves it and reaches him before the fire ends [1] (Daredevil V2#63). So really, I don't see why Laura appearing as a blur while tackling someone from behind is supposed to prove she can cross a small town and reach a building before my team catches up to her. Secondly, you yourself stated twice now that your team will be protecting one another. So even if Laura was, hypothetically, as fast as you thought, her own teammates would draw her back. And finally, you are assuming my team does not have ranged options. Even outside of Deadshot, Natasha and Bruce have long range weapons with high AoE that can incapacitate her. I already mentioned sonic weapons, knock out gas, tranq darts and a freeze ray - she has no resistence to any of these. The Widow's Bite can also stun her, packing up to 30,000 volts of force, like it did this android assassin sent by S.H.I.E.L.D. [2] (Marvel Knights V1#13). The same android no sold high caliber fire, without even budging or slowing down - durability well past Laura's tier:

This is really nothing compared to what Laura does here. Even assuming she was standing close to him, jumping in front of a bullet after it was fired is more impressive than that. I have also shown you Laura moving at FTE in multiple situations. And yes, My other characters aren't as fast as Laura, but Ed alone can possibly take Batman and Black Widow in a fight. With the aid of Tsung and the Iron Legion suits, they stand no chance. And your team isn't going to be able to hit Laura with any of those long range weapons, and the AOE ones have a chance of hurting your team too.

There are also explosives, flash bombs and smoke grenades that can effectively blind her and slow her down if not outright stop her. And all these are available to use from range, even assuming Bruce or Natasha cannot catch up to Laura on equal grounds, which I'm not really convinced of either if I'm being honest. And to bring the sniper back to the conversation:

None of these will effect Laura much considering her senses and her pain tolerance. And this is all assuming you even tag her with them.

Captain Boomerang can sprint at blur speeds just like you showed Laura doing, and Floyd basically toyed with him. And he did so while letting him know he can see each beat of a hummingbird's wing, you know this: [1]. Additionally, we've seen him shoot Green Arrow's arrows right out of the air from almost point blank range [2]. Adding in the visual aid a sniper riffle offers, I don't see why he cannot pin her down. The question, for me, is wether or not she's fast enough to defend against a sniper shot, but at least based on what you've shown, she can't.

This is a different situation. There, he had a clear view of his opponent. Here, he's going to have to get past all the buildings while far away.

They didn't. In the scene you posted, we see Thor fighting the bots 4 times. The first time he deflects a charging armor with Mjolnir and launches it away: we don't see how it ended up taking the hit, but considering we saw the jets on its feet shutting down, it's more fair to assume he put it down than the other way around. Second time he charges at one of them and punches it without using his weapon. Third time he hits an armor on its leg and completely destroys it then pins it against the wall and throws it down (damage which is enough to rip it in half), Then we see Cap throwing the remaining half on Thor again and he destroys it using Mjolnir.

Collectively, we saw much less damage (a throw through thin metal bars and a low fall) breaking their bodies in half, and the 2 times we saw the effects Mjolnir's hits had on the armors, they ended up destroying the armors. So I think it's not really fair to assume that armor survived the hit in the beginning just because we didn't see it shut down. And to add to that, we also saw Cap's shield throw busting another armor, which would make it further inconsistent for them to tank Mjolnir attacks.

The only relevant durability feats for them consist of tanking shots from Widow and Maria Hill, but that is no better than what Killer Croc [1] (Batwoman V1#21) and Deathstroke [2] (Faces of Evil: Deathstroke) have shown, and Floyd has shot right through them.

At best, it's likely he just briefly shut it down, and that's if it did actually shut down. The second time the suit shown no visible sings of damage. No, Thor did not "completely destroyed". The armor was still clearly functioning after Thor's swing. it So i still do not believe they are going down as easy as you say.

More issues here. Firstly, you have not brought up a single feat suggesting anyone besides Laura even stands a chance at surviving Deadshot's assault. Second, even if they did, you also assumed that Bruce and Natasha will be fighting head on - which isn't the case since they'll be in stealth mode. Third, even if they were going for a head on fight, you've not mentioned why it would be one sided in any case. You just said it will be. So I don't think I have anything more to counter on that for now.

Laura has feats of blocking people from gunfire, so i believe she can protect her team if he does manage to shoot them. And with what i presented, i already proved how they would take them handily.

Summary

I still do not believe your team has what it takes to beat mine. Laura can detect your team from a distance with her senses and can dodge everything you can throw at her. Ed's Alchemy is more potent than anything your team has, and i believe Deadshot still won't be of much use to Batman and Black Widow, which would result in them being easily defeated and our team would end up succeeding in our goal.

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#28 geekryan  Online
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Post #3: Closing.

I. General Statements.

Firstly, some things to get out of the way regarding Deadshot.

How can you guarantee that Deadshot will be able to shoot anyone across the map? First of all, there's the fact our team start quite a distance away. There are multiple building obstructing Deadshot's view. and in your opener, you said "This all means that Deadshot can immediate snipe either Edward or Lung and kill them at any range so long as they're not actively covering themselves".

I disagree. Even with this perk, i doubt he can shoot through a building that far away. Nothing you showed for him convinces me he can do this. And i believe it's worth mentioning that the perk doesn't say anything about being able to tell my characters apart either.

By "actively covering themselves" I meant exactly that he cannot shoot them behind cover. This does not stop him from gunning them down at any moment outside of it. Floyd does not only have a 5+ mile radius as a sniper, he is also extremely fast, something I already highlighted in the previous post. This is the man who sensed a sniper shot coming his way while distracted from an active firefight, moved his head around after it was fired and then dropped the shooter without issue:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Deadshot V2#2

I still have not seeing anything to suggest anyone besides Laura has a shot of surviving this. You argued she will intercept the shots, so we'll get to that later. But outside of that, there's no actual counter to Floyd killing them the moment they pop in view of his.

As for the perk, this doesn't matter. I never said it offers us this knowledge, Floyd will just shoot any vulnerable target.

Laura has feats of blocking people from gunfire, so i believe she can protect her team if he does manage to shoot them. And with what i presented, i already proved how they would take them handily.

So far you've shown two feats of her timing bullets, and while impressive, it's not what's required for her to cover both her teammates here. A sniper is much different than plain handgun rounds in front of her. For one, it's a faster round, but I can let that one slide because it's concievable a bullet timer of her caliber can defend against this here. But there's also the surprise factor. Not only is a sniper shot coming out of nowhere, and it's something your team has no reason to expect, but this is even more the case with Deadshot, who is an expert on trickshots - he regularly ricochets bullets just the way I presented in my opener.

Basically, your scans are enough to say that if your team came face to face with Black Widow, Laura could protect everyone from her shots - but this is vastly different than what you're supposed to prove here. It's Deadshot hiding on the other end of the town, with a high caliber weapon and surprise techniques to aid.

And not to mention soldiers and cameras spread around the battlefield. There's no guarantee where the cameras or soldier are located, so by having Deadshot snipe people, the sound will no doubt alert people nearby. While my team do not rely on making sounds to make our way toward the building as my team can easily kill any soldiers without alerting others.

I've already established that none of the guards will even distract us in our way. And there's nothing to suggest they can locate Floyd in a sniping position in the first place.

What i meant by that is my team will be able to take them out easier, given Laura's speed and Ed's Alchemy.

Yes, I know what you meant. It's just incorrect. My team can take them out just as easily, given everyone's speed and gear.

There is not way the two can beat Laura, Ed, and Tsung all at once. They may be able to beat Tsung in a fight, but X-23 and ED will beat them handily.

My other characters aren't as fast as Laura, but Ed alone can possibly take Batman and Black Widow in a fight. With the aid of Tsung and the Iron Legion suits, they stand no chance. And your team isn't going to be able to hit Laura with any of those long range weapons, and the AOE ones have a chance of hurting your team too.

Why do you insist on acting like this is a straight up fight? It's a search and destroy scenario. It's virtually Black Ops - it's exactly what all 3 members of my team are trained to do best. It's stealth; you've not shown something for Ed or Tsung to suggest they can as much as detect Batman or Widow, let alone fight them. The only relevant feat you've brought up so far is for Laura,

And also, Laura has managed to detect an invisible opponent before, so i doubt your team can get the drop on here, and since none of my other characters have senses like she does, them being in a group works to my advantage.

which you haven't really explained much. I'm assuming she detected a run-of-the-mill invisible character without special magic abilities. Yelena Belova, a Black Widow explicitly second to Natasha in skill and experience, has done this while explaining the mechanics behind it:

Thunderbolts V1#133
Thunderbolts V1#133

Upon detecting Ghost in his invisible form, she says it was achieved by hearing his breathing. So there are practical means of detecting an invisible opponent from the smallest of sounds they make while moving or breathing. What's impossible is what the likes of Spider-Man, who can detect a uniquely designed radiation trail [1] (Marvel Team-Up V1#14) - credit to BlackSpidey2099 - and Wonder Woman, who can deflect bullet baragges blindfolded [2] (Wonder Woman V2#215), have shown. And Widow and Batman respectively have been able to ghost these people through sheer skill.

Yes please.

Fine. I wanted to avoid scan bombing, a lot, but since it's so much of a big deal, here's the same list of weapons I argued for with new scans. You're obviously asking for everything I listed relative to taking down X-23, so I'll at least limit it to those:

and I think I've already shown more than enough scans for the Widow's Bite and the explosives they carry.

And your team isn't going to be able to hit Laura with any of those long range weapons, and the AOE ones have a chance of hurting your team too.

The large scale weapons are not hurting my team. You can look at each of the scans I provided, they know how to use them, they're not morons. As for Laura, the problem is - again - that it is an ambush. She - or the rest of your team, assuming they survive up to that point - have no idea what they're up against, and they're not stealthy. Bruce and Natasha can approach them without issue and attack accordingly. And keep in mind that dodging or timing is not something you typically do with gas, a smokescreen or a sonic wave - at the very least it's not something you've shown Laura capable of doing. Certainly not Tsung or Ed. It's something beyond reaction speed.

None of these will effect Laura much considering her senses and her pain tolerance. And this is all assuming you even tag her with them.

What does her pain tolerance and sensory have to do with a sudden burst of light and sound blindsiding her, or toxic gases knocking her out?

At best, it's likely he just briefly shut it down, and that's if it did actually shut down. The second time the suit shown no visible sings of damage. No, Thor did not "completely destroyed". The armor was still clearly functioning after Thor's swing. it So i still do not believe they are going down as easy as you say.

No. That's not what "at best" happened. Not once did the armors do anything to suggest they can tank a direct strike from Mjolnir without shutting down. So just because we did not see the explicit effect this had off screen, we cannot just assume it tanked it. The second time I literally said it completely destroyed its leg, which is what Thor was aiming for and what happened. For everything else, my breakdown is in the second post for everyone to see.

II. X-23's Speed.

This is all weird to even discuss at this point because you yourself contradict it two posts now; the point of your argument here, at least initially, was that Laura is fast enough to get to the building before my team can pin her down, but now you've decided and closed your case that it's Tsung carrying the briefcase and Laura being right next to him for protection. Which by itself means Laura cannot even go full speed, even assuming your arguments were legit, and therefore she can only go as fast as Tsung can in order to cover him. I'm going to counter your arguments one last time regardless, but I wanted to point this out from the beginning: there's virtually no point in arguing how fast she is since you said many times already that she will be following Tsung.

The blur speeds will help to close the gap much quicker, If you want more examples, she has done this and this, the obstacles really won't be much trouble for her.

You keep mentioning this but it's something very questionable, if not outright unlikely, to imagine. What is she going to do just because she can make limited movements like this? Just keep bursting every 10 feet? She's going to run, leap etc. She's crossing a town. My team can time bullets: the art in those instances might not outright show it, but they are moving at FTE/blur speeds by default just as much as Laura does. But it's not quite so relevant in crossing a small town.

This is really nothing compared to what Laura does here. Even assuming she was standing close to him, jumping in front of a bullet after it was fired is more impressive than that. I have also shown you Laura moving at FTE in multiple situations.

I agree that this is more impressive movement speed than what I've shown for Bruce and Natasha, but again, this is just reactions/restricted movement. Based on everything you've shown thus far, Laura's travel speed is not what you seem to think it is. Not so good that my team, peak humans with similar speed feats armed with grappling hooks, cannot keep up with.

III. Final Thoughts.

  • My characters' roles and training gives them an immediate battlefield control advantage. Deadshot has full view of your team at any moment that they're not behind cover, and he can most likely kill any of them, or at least two out of three, extremely easily. Even when they are behind cover, he will know due to our perk, and be ready for when they pop out. Meanwhile, Bruce and Natasha approaching fully out of sight means they can have full view of your team at a reasonable distance, while your team doesn't.
  • Your final say was that Tsung will be carrying the bomb and your team will be covering him. But Ed or Laura cannot do much against a sniper of Deadshot's caliber without knowledge on who they're up against. Trickshots will catch them off guard and can hit behind cover, and they have no idea where to defend from since they can never have view of him from the opposite part of the town. The Iron Legion armors will go down to the assault inevitably.
  • The first line of attack is Deadshot's assault. There's a strong chance your team gets shot down before they even reach sight of the building.
  • The second line of attack is the duo's assault. Gases, explosives, sonic grenades, flashbangs and stealth are the key to an effective ambush, and it's a tactic my team frequently prefers. Meanwhile, Widow knows full well how dangerous Laura is and what her power set consists off, so they are not going to waste any time before incapacitating her with their gear instead of sheer force. Keep in mind that thoughout all this time, Deadshot is still actively scanning for the team. He can gun them down even while Bruce and Natasha are in close range themselves.
  • Ed would normally be an issue in a straight up fight, but it's a far cry that he will survive long enough for this to be a problem. If he doesn't just get shot - which there's no reason for him not to at this point - he will be taken out afterwards.

Tldr: my team has the entire field covered on every account. They are on the offensive while your team has no idea of where the threat is even located at any given time. We have several ways of taking you out before you reach the building.

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ANTHP2000

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#30  Edited By ANTHP2000
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geekryan

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#31 geekryan  Online
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ANTHP2000

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psi-bite234

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I am giving it to ANTHP2000 he had a better and more precise approach then shade and he did a amazing with repping characters especially Batman and Black widow. Now he seemed to go of Natasha knowing X-23 and her capabilities but like most characters X-23 has grown a lot since then getting training from the likes of Psylocke and Wolverine ect. (Fun fact :

No Caption Provided

-This scan you used is actually Natasha undercover as Yelena belova during the dark Reign event.

Now I can respect Shade's approach considering he made those characters look like equals to the opposite teams but he heavily focused on X-23 speed and the iron legion which was his downfall Imo considering the other team had counters for that.

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ANTHP2000

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@psi-bite234: Considering her identity was revealed in the very next issue of the run, this is just embarrassing, to be honest. But I have an excuse in not having touched or gathered scans from the first 'Thunderbolts' in almost 2 years. I guess it could just be a brain fart, lol. See that's why it took courage for me to actually rep CB characters officially, this is how much content there is.

Also, thanks for the vote. Sidenote, I was mostly referring to the basic structure of Laura's power set going by that approach - ie. she's fast and regenerative.

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I’m putting my Vote Towards Ant, feel at the end of the day they put up pretty convincing display the Threat Deadshot displays while it feel Shades was inconsistent on how their team would deal with it. This isn’t even touching the little counters I felt for the Batman/Widow Tag-Team dealing with Laura, who seemed to be the Crux of Shade’s arguments.

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TheWatcherKing

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No promises but I’ll try to vote before Thursday

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Giving my vote to @anthp2000. In addition to having a more detailed strategy for his team, he also provided more in depth counters. @shade545 relied a little too heavily on his scans doing the debating for him IMO. A good example of this would be the debate over Laura intercepting Floyd's bullets to protect her teammates. Shade's argument was in essence, Laura has intercepted bullets to protect people before, therefore she can do it here and didn't expand any further than that. On the other hand, ANTHP gave reasoning for why the situation presented in that scan and in this debate weren't equivalent and because shade didn't explain why the feat translates to the debate his argument just falls flat. Aside from that, shade's own strategy often contradicted itself making it difficult for the reader to discern exactly what his strategy was.

Sidenote, if anyone knows where the image of Black Widow in the ANTHP's opener is from please tell me.

Overall 0/10 debate. My boy Ed's gonna get no-scoped by Deadshot. :( /s

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#41  Edited By ANTHP2000

@theonewhoknocks: Thank you for the vote and in depth analysis. And Ed is still cooler than Deadshot if nothing else.

The picture is cover art from her 2014 run, specifically issue #13. The art in all those 20 issues is underrated in my opinion, it's probably my favorite of the character.

@thewatcherking said:

No promises but I’ll try to vote before Thursday

Appreciated.

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#43  Edited By TheOneWhoKnocks

@theonewhoknocks: Thank you for the vote and in depth analysis. And Ed is still cooler than Deadshot if nothing else.

The picture is cover art from her 2014 run, specifically issue #13. The art in all those 20 issues is underrated in my opinion, it's probably my favorite of the character.

Thanks, I'll have to give those a read

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blackspidey2099

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I'll vote for anthp; I felt like shade's arguments contradicted himself just as much as anthp countered him and that's never a good look. Furthermore, I just wasn't convinced by shade's arguments against anthp's Deadshot snipe strategy with Laura somehow protecting 3 people from sniper bullets when she has never blocked bullets that fast from a marksman as good as Deadshot. As such, I overall feel that anthp's Trio of Marksmen should take this win comfortably.

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ANTHP2000

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I'll vote for anthp; I felt like shade's arguments contradicted himself just as much as anthp countered him and that's never a good look. Furthermore, I just wasn't convinced by shade's arguments against anthp's Deadshot snipe strategy with Laura somehow protecting 3 people from sniper bullets when she has never blocked bullets that fast from a marksman as good as Deadshot. As such, I overall feel that anthp's Trio of Marksmen should take this win comfortably.

You are good. Thank you for the vote.

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@geekryan: Going to finish reading it, and then give an answer here soon. :)

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SWA2point0

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Finished reading the last two posts and thought about it, but I'm going to side with @anthp2000. @shade545 did a good job at first displaying his game plan and how his team could very possibly win, but what he fell flat was informing us of the rest of his team and how their powers and abilities could be used. Overall the debate was pretty solid, but again anthp2000 had the better argument at the end of the day

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#49 geekryan  Online