@mrballins: There is a difference between the source of your life being cut off and being destroyed. Pretty much all life except humans in Notes died out with the planet, and humans hanged around probably because they are connected to Gaia instead of Alaya
No, there is no difference. What? Humans died out because the planet became toxic and couldn't produce life for humans to live on. This is irrelevant to Arc. She is the will of the planet, not the planet itself. Saying she will die if it does is complete headcanon.
While i agree with this, until Nasu properly retcons it (Since as it stands now, a proper god would shit on everything in Notes because they are made out entirely out of True Ether) we have to use what we have
Nerfed god Arc is already compared to a Divine Spirit, so this True Ether weakness doesn't apply to her. Not to mention it actually has to touch the Type, assuming it hits. But True Ether isn't effecting Arc based off comparing her to Amaterasu. And even if it did and it hit her, she can abandon and reinvent her body.
Not really, there are clear limits, but it should work for physical hits.
I doubt it. And not if those hits come from something conceptually superior to gods.
The only thing that TYPEs have over gods is a few statements and hype. I would adore nothing more than for ORT to appear and start kicking shit on the Fate side with the only thing that could stop him being Grand Saber Ado Edem, but TYPEs only get powerscaling from other characters due to statements since they are not present.
We are not talking about a random Type. We are talking about Arcueid, whose Extraverse statements and scaling put her above the verse. She would have all hax of the Moon Cell, including BB and Gilgamesh's, along with her own if she is unrestricted, since the entire Moon Cell is a mere part of her. Extraverse Red Arcueid alone solos the verse mid to low-diff.
The thing Prillya and Miyu use to transform into magical girls
You actually mentioned the worst thing in all of the Nasuverse. Going to pretend I didn't hear this.
(Technically they first appear in Hollow Ataraxia iirc, where Rin and Luvia use them). They are Mystic Codes crafted by Zelretch and have multiple abilities, but the most important one is that they can provide the user with infinite mana from parallel worlds and can also boost the user's parameters by manipulating their Od.
Oh, ok. Then that should be enough to sustain them. Too bad they die anyway.
This is not how it works. Raw power is irrelevant here, you could be capable of destroying an infinite universe but not be galaxy class. Amaterasu only scales up because multiple characters have made the Amaterasu=Vairocana, otherwise I will not be making Amaterasu>Astarte arguments
As it stands Arc is a planetary spirit, so she should not be able to brute force her way through coceptual defense of Astarte. Maybe she can do it if she uses the Moon Cell (Since it can cover the entire Milky Way with its jamming signal) to classify herself as a galaxy class entity, but she is strictly a planet class entity without it
*Facepalm* Conceptual advantages do not apply to Arc because she already has a small chance at defeating Amaterasu when she is nerfed as an enshrined god.
First, Arc was not enshrined. Getting enshrined essentially means becoming of Earth due to worship, even aliens are not free from this. Arc is already of the Earth so she is not really getting enshrined by a single guy (even if Earthlings can get enshrined, such as the Mesopotamians)
She was on that level. Gatou's worship specifically did that to her.
Second, the chance is still miniscule at best. You cannot argue that Arc would have been under 10% power even when nerfed by Gatou
Considering her entire existence dropped from a First Class True Ancestor down to a god, then yeah I can. And you keep ignoring unrestricted Extraverse Archetype-Earth godstomping Amaterasu with hax.
This is because Gods would be inherently lower on the ladder because of enshrinement.
The gods have inferior feats and scaling to First Class True Ancestors period. The gods can have difficulty with Servants. True Ancestors are stated to be far beyond the DAAs (minus the few obvious ones), who are equal to Servants. And Zelretch needed power from across the multiverse to fight a First Class True Ancestor, who is only equal to Red Arcueid. Meanwhile with gods:
Complete fodder. Roa one shots.
They are still a part of the same time tree, to the point of Extraverse being reachable in FGO. Hell, Zepar managed to essentially replace FGO Kiara with her CCC self before she mindfucked him
And? Their histories are still different.
Yeah, no. Roa doesn't really have any good feats beyond getting shredded by 10% Arc. He is a good mage, I suppose, but Medea could pull off the same thing Roa did at the school since she is a better mage than him overall. He will win against her because his reality marble is broken, but beyond zapping things with really powerful lightning I am not sure what can he really do in terms of hax (beyond his eyes as SHIKI). Medea emulating True Magic is honestly more impressive. Like, scaling from Altrouge is good, but we have no idea how strong she is either (beyond surpassing Brunestud in a way after acquiring PM) or how Roa went about fighting her
DAAs are stated to be children before the True Ancestors by Sion, who would know about this stuff. Also, the title of Brunestud is reserved for True Ancestors who are at least relatively close to Type-Moon in power:
Another name for the organism that was used as the template for the True Ancestors. Also known as the Crimson Moon Brunestud.
After he vanished, individuals close to him in power started being honored with the title of Brunestud.
However, in the long history of the True Ancestors, only two have ever received the name.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Altrouge_Brunestud#References
Altrouge is one of these two, with the other being obvious. So Roa defeated someone in the same general league as Type-Moon, who I need not explain why he is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Servants.
As for how Roa fought her... It flat out states he is more powerful than her:
Altrouge set out to put the newcomer Dead Apostle in his place, but by that time Roa was already powerful enough to defeat her instead. Of course, it was only natural. Not only was Roa an excellent magus in his own right, but he was able to wield the power of the strongest True Ancestor, Arcueid, at the same time.
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Roa_Valdamjong#References
So uh... Roa claps Servants.
Technically speaking Arc would also be buffed, since the Moon Cell amps uber conceptual entities such as gods (which is one of their weaknesses, since they are mostly concepts which makes theam vulnerable against Velber) so Arc should also be amped even if she got degraded to a god
...
She was flat out stated to be nerfed. It said the Moon Cell can (not always will) amp gods depending on their information and how powerful people regard them as. And even in the Moon Cell, gods are stated to be below True Ancestors. Even if her god form is amped (it isn't), it is still stated to be beneath her normal existence (a True Ancestor).
I still disagree with this. Both of us are making a lot of guesses here, as for example exactly how much Arc got nerfed and how big were her chances against Ama
Do also note, that depending on the exact Age during which Amaterasu dragged us to, she could have very easily been nerfed as well due to possibly being a Divine Spirit instead of a proper god
Arcueid normally is stated to be the strongest outside of the Moon Cell since she is "No longer the strongest" in the Moon Cell due to the massive nerfs her Servant form has and all the amps gods get. So Arcueid when not getting nerfed as a Servant by the Moon Cell making Gatou's information (delusions) true is flat out stated to be>Amaterasu. It makes sense too. Amaterasu doesn't even have a 100% chance against one of the weakest versions of Arc. Amaterasu's chances against a dual-Type Arcueid at full power with all the hax of the Moon Cell (along with her own) at her disposal are in the negatives. To say otherwise is quite frankly... unfounded wank. Especially since the only hax we know that Amaterasu has is bypassing causality, which even Gilgamesh can do. Otherwise, she has zero hax to contend with Arcueid at her best. Horrible mismatch.
It lets her regenerate, with said regeneration being heavily implied to be able to ignore Gae Bolg's anti-healing effect (something which only the Jabberwocky was shown as being capable of doing iirc). She was also mistaken for a True Ancestor, but was said to be a different type of elemental
That sounds like immunity to anti-regeneration, rather than uber regeneration. Can she regenerate from full body destruction?
The major theories are that she is either a member of Brunestud's race (She was referred to as "The last flower of the Moon")
That sounds OP.
or a low level Xian, which is essentially a Taoist Buddha.
Oh... Never mind...
Another thing that I was told is that top class Xians are apparently like Void Shiki, essentially being avatars of Wuji (Which is what Nasu's Root is based on, even if it is named after the Akashic Records) so that's a thing.
The same as Void Shiki in terms of being an avatar. But only one is omnipotent. Being avatars of Wuji (which we know little about) means nothing against Arc.
Oh yeah, two more things
First, the Servant could technically go the Goetia way of destroying history and becoming the planet (Since they would have Solomon) or the Kiara way of becoming the planet's brain and gaining dominion over it. Both of these should technically erase Archetype completely, since iirc Goetia's plan in specific involved burning the entire time tree down instead of a single timeline
Archetype-Earth is both Type-Earth and Type-Moon since she is Type-Moon's daughter and has all of his Type powers. Hell, her Type-Moon status is referenced way more than her Archetype-Earth status. Removing her as Archetype-Earth doesn't change the fact that she is still Type-Moon. And even her non-Extraverse self scales to Zelretch and Crimson Moon, who have a feat way above all of non-Extraverse. She still one shots.
Also, I know this battle banned Extraverse, but this is more of just talking about something from a lore standpoint. I can see Goetia burning down the time tree gaining him some very unwanted attention from Extraverse if he was successful, as burning it down still won't effect the Moon Cell or its entities. So if he was successful, I can see CCC Gilgamesh and Extraverse Arcueid getting pissed and... thinking him out of existence. So he seems doomed from the start, unless he wasn't going to effect Extraverse.
Second, as I was reading about Wuji I stumbled on something interesting called Taiji, which is what Shinza's Taikyoku was based on(iirc Taiji was also used as a synonym for it). It is supposed to be the ""Supreme Ultimate" state of undifferentiated absolute and infinite potential, the oneness before duality, from which Yin and Yang originate". Considering that this lines up quite well with the explanation of Taikyoku, would this constitute Hadou Gods as being able to manipulate Platonic concepts or not?
Depends. Fictions can heavily distort real life myths and religions. The fact that Hadou gods can get negged by more Taikyoko or appearing as software to Naraka makes me believe that they can't. But this is heavy derailment. Do you have a Discord? Some Vine people wanted you to join us on there.
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