Composite JoJo character vs Composite Bleach Character

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SagaTheLegend

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@red_leader: Also I forgot about Filthy Acts at a Reasonable Price. The best stand name to be ever created. I dunno he would be useful here thou.

If I remember correctly they beat HA DIO via Jotaro's "We have the same type of stand" BS again. Jotaro never changes lol

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EcoBlitz

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#152 EcoBlitz  Online

@sagathelegend: GER is not NLF. Because you have no counter for it doesn’t make it a NLF

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EcoBlitz

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#153 EcoBlitz  Online

@sagathelegend: the canon name is dirty deeds done dirt cheap. D4C not filthy acts at a reasonable price

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SagaTheLegend

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@ecoblitz: Show me a feat of GER resisting power nulification or soul destruction and then you can say the composite has no counter for it.

No Caption Provided

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BlackWizzard17

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#155  Edited By BlackWizzard17

@sagathelegend: you're treating this as if all stands are separate. This is all stands together as one character justice the bleach character.

Again stop tiem and time skip allow for the use of za hando and even vanilla ice ability which erases anything from the universe.

Novel Kars is above the almightys pay grade. One glance and he already has the ability but stronger.

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SolidShadow134

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#156  Edited By SolidShadow134

people are still arguing soul destruction and power nullification? yikes

not like it would really matter because if you're going that route, comp Jojo can heal souls and ywachs vague statement (and powers) has never been used in any (if at all) way some bleach debaters are arguing it

final verdict: since i only know part 1-5 and most of the games from what I can see Jojo should win pretty easily for all rounds except for 1 that could be a stalemate

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SagaTheLegend

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@blackwizzard17:

you're treating this as if all stands are separate. This is all stands together as one character justice the bleach character.

  • People have been treating it as multiple stands until now. All in one is pretty impossible too, since it would have the abilities of automatic stands and stand like Cheap Trick and Superfly too which basically acta against the user. The op did not say which one are but whatever, they still die to soul crush, at least on Round 1 and Round 2.

Again stop tiem and time skip allow for the use of za hando and even vanilla ice ability which erases anything from the universe.

  • Again, the composite is faster so he can soul crush, copy abilities and become immune to them basically. He will be able to move in Stopped Time and Act within Time Erasure, alongside using The Hand for example.

Novel Kars is above the almightys pay grade. One glance and he already has the ability but stronger.

  • I doubt it since the Composite is probably faster and can copy all the abilities of Kars, including that one and negate Kars's own power set with the Almighty.
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SagaTheLegend

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#158  Edited By SagaTheLegend

people are still arguing soul destruction and power nullification? yikes

not like it would really matter because if you're going that route, comp Jojo can heal souls and ywachs vague statement (and powers) has never been used in any (if at all) way some bleach debaters are arguing it

  • False, Yhwach used it against Ichibei, nulified his conceptual power manipulation and made his bankai harmless against him. Also used it to negate KS since Aizen never deactivated that ability and he had no reason to do so. Yhwach also made Ichigo's bankai impossible to be restored by Orihime's reality rejection via destroying it in all possible futures.
  • Also where the soul healing come from? Probably will not protect rhe stands thou, it also works on multiple spiritual bodies.

final verdict: since i only know part 1-5 and most of the games from what I can see Jojo should win pretty easily

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EcoBlitz

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#159 EcoBlitz  Online

@sagathelegend: power nullification is an action. Action gets negated. Yhwach isn’t done anything on a universal level, KC has, GER negated him like fodder

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SagaTheLegend

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#160  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@ecoblitz: It is an action that occurs before GER can do activate anything. GER's return to zero is a power, that needs to be activated and before that, it will be negated. Yhwach's faster and GER's ability is not instantaneous, in fact it took several pages in the manga for it to take full effect. KC Universal Erasure is meaningless here, since we are discussing hax, the AoE of it does not matter at all here.

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EcoBlitz

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#161 EcoBlitz  Online

@sagathelegend: What? GER exists independent of time lol.

How tf is KC not hax?

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SagaTheLegend

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@ecoblitz: GER does not exist independent of time. You have no facts or author statements to back up that, do you?

I didn't say KC's power is not hax. I said the AoE of it does not really matter in this context

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BlackWizzard17

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@ecoblitz: GER does not exist independent of time. You have no facts or author statements to back up that, do you?

I didn't say KC's power is not hax. I said the AoE of it does not really matter in this context

No Caption Provided

Comp bleach action is the almighty, his will is to defeat comp jojo but GER ability retroactively stops that truth. The ability may come to fruition but will not succeed.

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SolidShadow134

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@sagathelegend:

1) yhwach didn't negate ichibei"s power, thats not even what he said, all he did use powers to make it a future in which he did not get hit

2) yhwach was always under ks, you do realize that the almighty works based on sight, how is it going to work on an ability that warped your perception of what you are seeing, that also brings me too another point yhwach cant change the future of what he cant see, that's why the world and KC are so effective against him

3) how can soul healing not work on the stands if the stand is basically their spirit? by the way, it wouldn't even matter as what bleach does isn't even soul destruction

4) im going to be at a soccer game so im not gonna be back until around 10

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SagaTheLegend

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#165  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@blackwizzard17: Yeah, but that only applies if GER activates the ability. Yhwach can negate the abilities he sees and stopping them from taking effect althogether. For example Yhwach sees into the future what GER will do. GER notices and tries to negate it, but his ability to turn to zero is negated by the Almighty. It is just a matter of who activates their ability first really. The Composite might copy GER's ability too, but that will probably lead to a stalemate.

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BlackWizzard17

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@sagathelegend: king crimson saw the future and guess what? He got stopped. Same to yhwatch, he sees a future in which he can "win" but gets stopped the moment he does something since GER stops him from reaching that truth which was already in play. Novel kars also copies abilities and makes them "ultimate" versions.

I dont see how yhwatch

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SagaTheLegend

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@sagathelegend:

1) yhwach didn't negate ichibei"s power, thats not even what he said, all he did use powers to make it a future in which he did not get hit

Nope, what happened was this:

No Caption Provided

  • Ichibe used his power to leave Yhwach in this state, where he was completely powerless and transformed into this. But later on...
No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

  • He completely negated Ichibe's abilities and returned to his normal state, all due to the Almighty.
No Caption Provided

2) yhwach was always under ks, you do realize that the almighty works based on sight, how is it going to work on an ability that warped your perception of what you are seeing that also brings me to another point yhwach cant change the future of what he cant see, that's why the world and KC are so effective against him

  • Yeah, but... he will have knowledge of those abilities via memory copying and will be able to move while thei are active with power copy.

3) how can soul healing not work on the stands if the stand is basically their spirit? by the way, it wouldn't even matter as what bleach does isn't even soul destruction

  • Well, it depends on how the soul healing works, where it comes from?
  • Is soul destruction thought, it is stated all quincies have it and Aizen destroyed spiritual bodies of humans with soul crush.

4) im going to be at a soccer game so im not gonna be back until around 10

  • No problem.

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SagaTheLegend

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@blackwizzard17:

king crimson saw the future and guess what? He got stopped. Same to yhwatch, he sees a future in which he can "win" but gets stopped the moment he does something since GER stops him from reaching that truth which was already in play.

  • Yeah, King Crimson saw the future but he can't change or manipulate what he sees in it. The problem with it is that Yhwach can see all possible futures, so when he sees GER negating his actions in a possible future, he can negate GER's power before it activates. GER's power needs the action to happen first to negate it, so if the action is to negate GER's ability, what can he do?

Novel kars also copies abilities and makes them "ultimate" versions.

  • Novel Kars is another discussion, but the Composite can still copy Kars's powers, including his ability to copy other powers, so it could possibly go to an stalemate.

I dont see how yhwatch

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Ymirgod

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@blackwizzard17:

king crimson saw the future and guess what? He got stopped. Same to yhwatch, he sees a future in which he can "win" but gets stopped the moment he does something since GER stops him from reaching that truth which was already in play.

  • Yeah, King Crimson saw the future but he can't change or manipulate what he sees in it. The problem with it is that Yhwach can see all possible futures, so when he sees GER negating his actions in a possible future, he can negate GER's power before it activates. GER's power needs the action to happen first to negate it, so if the action is to negate GER's ability, what can he do?

Novel kars also copies abilities and makes them "ultimate" versions.

  • Novel Kars is another discussion, but the Composite can still copy Kars's powers, including his ability to copy other powers, so it could possibly go to an stalemate.

I dont see how yhwatch

Unlike KC yhwach has resistance feats

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Saxz

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F*ck it ...channelling my animefreak-Juubi laser one shots both fodder verses

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Co-Boss

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I don't know how I completely forgot about the Love Train. The only attack I could see hurting the team would be Lille's deletion and the Visionary as Green Green Grass of home would not allow any physical thing to get near them (literally impossible to approach him) and I don't feel like arguing whose power null is better between GER and Ywach so well just say they cancel each other out. So, with a composite character that means the character is always within Love Train (Lucy will be connected to the others) and so any misfortune laid upon them will go to someone else on the world. And yes it is any MISFORTUNE so Gremmy's stuff will still be deflected. I can't see bleach team being able to take down jojo now as the deletion and the visionary can't break through love train and so those methods of attacks are gone too IMO.

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SagaTheLegend

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#172  Edited By SagaTheLegend

@co-boss: But while in Love Train they cannot attack the opponents that are on the outside and the Bleach Composite can sinply regenerate from the damage dealt. That is also the fact Love Train acts throught a dimensional barrier of light. We've seen that Kenpachi's shikai can cut throught space, so if he breaks the wall, Love Train is completely useless.

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MattyBoi

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#173  Edited By MattyBoi

Jojo character, they have far superior hax. GER alone could solo/stalemate.

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EcoBlitz

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#174 EcoBlitz  Online

@co-boss: bleach character don’t get past jail house rock and heavy weather

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Co-Boss

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@ecoblitz: Ik but I’ve been debating that Ywach can’t just nullify them (through GER) for a while now and haven’t broken any ground with the bleach debaters

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#176  Edited By Bossmountain
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Co-Boss

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@bossmountain: That game is quite non-canon and shouldn't really be used to answer how people's abilities work imo.

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MattyBoi

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@co-boss said:

@bossmountain: That game is quite non-canon and shouldn't really be used to answer how people's abilities work imo.

Agreed.

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Bossmountain

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@mattyboi said:
@co-boss said:

@bossmountain: That game is quite non-canon and shouldn't really be used to answer how people's abilities work imo.

Agreed.

there is not about it that contradiction anything in canon

Loading Video...

GER clearly damages Diovalo before resetting all his actions.

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Co-Boss

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#180  Edited By Co-Boss

@bossmountain: You mean all the actions that happened well after the injury and has nothing to do with the thing reversed? There is nothing within that scene that indicates it was the injury that caused the time-reversal and using something not written by araki to try and back it up isn't really enough to indicate it either. The only thing we really can assume is that he has to touch the enemy to start the death loop, thats really it. The attack was clearly written by araki to show that GER has an increased attacking ability and to make Diavolo assume that was all it could do.

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Bossmountain

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@co-boss: No more likely GER powers are an evolve version of GE delirium touch except now it affects causality. what we see happening after is happening from Diovalo's perspective.

The attack was clearly written by araki to show that GER has an increased attacking ability and to make Diavolo assume that was all it could do.

let's not pretend you know araki intent.

the issue here is GER only had 1 canon used and how it powers works is so vague to the point where it's kinda up to interpretation . Jojo fans clung to strongest interpretation possible even tho conflicts with other jojo material like light novels and video games . Where as Eye of heaven's interpretation is consist all across the board.

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BNinja

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I agree that composite Jojo wins R1 and R2, but it think R3 goes to composite Bleach. The fact that Cheap Trick will actively try and help composite Bleach win via looking at it, and the Almighty being able to know stand abilities and change the future pretty much ensures that composite Bleach won't get hit with anything.

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Co-Boss

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#183  Edited By Co-Boss

@bossmountain: We have no indication that the reversal is a upgrade of delirium which Araki doesn’t use past the Bruno fight. Requiem did not just evolve people’s power with what we were shown as nothing with silver chariot requiem was following any rules silver chariot had, it was an entirely new stand (in a sense). People don’t bother with light novel and game contradictions because they are not canon nor are they recognized by Araki to be canon. They aren’t even things that were once canon and then were removed like Disney and Star Wars, they just flat out aren’t canon. Yes GER has only a few canon feats and those are the feats we use to judge his character. I can’t assume what araki meant with scenes and you can’t use things not connect to araki to shape araki written works.

Edit: we also have his stand stats page that directly explains how it works.

No Caption Provided

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EcoBlitz

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#184 EcoBlitz  Online

@bossmountain: that’s a non canon video game lmao. It doesn’t need to amage you to reset actions. It didn’t damage Diavolo yet reset his ass like a bot.

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EcoBlitz

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#185 EcoBlitz  Online

@co-boss: yeah ignore them. We know the truth. Yhwach doesn’t have feats of resisting causality manipulation.

Though I do believe GER has to kill you to put you in a death loop.

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Bossmountain

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@ecoblitz:

@ecoblitz said:

@bossmountain: that’s a non canon video game lmao. It doesn’t need to amage you to reset actions. It didn’t damage Diavolo yet reset his ass like a bot.

he clearly did 14 seconds into the video

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Bossmountain

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@co-boss said:

@bossmountain: We have no indication that the reversal is a upgrade of delirium which Araki doesn’t use past the Bruno fight. Requiem did not just evolve people’s power with what we were shown as nothing with silver chariot requiem was following any rules silver chariot had, it was an entirely new stand (in a sense). People don’t bother with light novel and game contradictions because they are not canon nor are they recognized by Araki to be canon. They aren’t even things that were once canon and then were removed like Disney and Star Wars, they just flat out aren’t canon. Yes GER has only a few canon feats and those are the feats we use to judge his character. I can’t assume what araki meant with scenes and you can’t use things not connect to araki to shape araki written works.

Edit: we also have his stand stats page that directly explains how it works.

No Caption Provided

y

If you just paying attention you see these with GE other abilities like his life giving that was enhanced by the arrow it give birth to two scorpions from a single pebble in it's GER form. So how can you say his delirium touche wasn't enhanced when his life giving ability was clearly enchanted.

Yes and none of it says the ability is automatic or passive and none of the secondary jojo material like the novels or the games supports it working this way either if anything they all go against it.

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Co-Boss

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#188  Edited By Co-Boss

@bossmountain: let me rephrase, the arrow doesn’t ONLY give upgrades. So that’s why I say assuming it’s just the touch is assuming he didn’t receive additional powers.

Also most people assume that it is automatic because giorno was very much still frozen in the skipped time area but GER was moving and acting on its own to protect giorno. Plus the stand stage states that "The strength of an attacker's will and actions will be reverted to zero" No mention of needing to do damage which I personally think araki would have put if it was so. He proceeds to state that GER needs to touch someone to permadeath them so Araki did mention the limitations of GER within the Stand stats page. No mention of this needed damage to revert to zero though.

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EcoBlitz

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#189 EcoBlitz  Online
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Bossmountain

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Loading Video...

@ecoblitz: THIS VIDEO IS CANON IT'S FROM THE PART 5 ANIME ! look at the 14 second and see GER hitting diovalo before any of his actions were reset.

I know you have a long tradition of completely ignoring all opposing proof against your interpretation . But maybe you should look at the source material you're contradicting with your headcanon.

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Bossmountain

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@co-boss: "Also most people assume that it is automatic because giorno was very much still frozen in the skipped time area but GER was moving and acting on its own to protect giorno. Plus the stand stage states that "The strength of an attacker's will and actions will be reverted to zero" No mention of needing to do damage which I personally think araki would have put if it was so. He proceeds to state that GER needs to touch someone to permadeath them so Araki did mention the limitations of GER within the Stand stats page. No mention of this needed damage to revert to zero though."

Yes GER being passive and automatic is a fan assumption an assumption that is not really confirmed in canon and complete denounced in secondary jojo material. Especially when this is a COMPOSITE GER like the OP said then we have to take the secondary material into consideration.

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SagaTheLegend

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Also for some reason Jail Hourse Rock is being overrated in this thread. It is useless outside of the prison walls:

No Caption Provided

It would only work otherwise if the user gets in contact with his opponent, which won't be happening here.

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EcoBlitz

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#193 EcoBlitz  Online

@sagathelegend: obviously in a composite it won’t be relegated to the walls of dolphin green prison.

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SagaTheLegend

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@ecoblitz: The ability says it only works on the walls of the Dolphin Prison. Being composite doesn't mean the abilities of the stand will change. Nothing like this was stated by the OP.

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EcoBlitz

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#195 EcoBlitz  Online

@bossmountain: what? GER used his giving life ability to turn what he hit into scorpions (can’t remember this from the manga but then again it’s been a while) and didn’t revert any actions. Did it also hit mista? The birds? The fly? The floor?? You’re literally reaching as hard as you can to make your precious bleach not lose.

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Lilgodperv

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#196  Edited By Lilgodperv

@ecoblitz: lol why isn't anybody bringing novel Kars in? He destroys the bleach verse.

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JOVIOLMA

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Lmao.

Why this was not locked yet but my composite bleach character gauntlet was ?

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EcoBlitz

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#198 EcoBlitz  Online

@sagathelegend: okay. Fair point. I’ll still ask OP tho. Nevermind still there’s highway to hell and Heavy weather and a multitude of other stands.

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EcoBlitz

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#199  Edited By EcoBlitz  Online

@lilgodperv: most people don’t know he exist. And yeah he solos the verse.

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EcoBlitz

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#200 EcoBlitz  Online

There’s literally no way team bleach win this. The hax is just too much.