Avatar image for ultimatesage
#1 Posted by UltimateSage (3702 posts) - - Show Bio
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

A composite being with all of the Jinchuuriki powers and abilities vs a composite being with all of Akatsuki powers and abilities.

Rules:

  • Bloodlust(but can think clearly
  • Naruto up to BM, nothing above that.
  • Orochimaru is part of akatsuki.
  • No Juubito....only good old tobi/obito pre-rinnegan version
  • Composite manga/anime(fillers too ewww) feats
  • Basic Knowledge
  • Starting Distance 300m

Rounds:

  1. Composite without edo feats
  2. Composite with edo feats.
  3. Composite get game feats and novel feats

Location:

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for ultimatesage
#2 Posted by UltimateSage (3702 posts) - - Show Bio

.....come little lambs..

Avatar image for hypnos0929
#3 Posted by Hypnos0929 (6720 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd give the edge to the akatski. The jins might as well be a 10 tailed beast but in the end I think the akatski has a way to floor it. Maybe the combined chakra can help trap it or at least control it via their various sharingan users.

Also with that kind of chakra flowing I could see Deidara's C5 being off the rails powerful and with endo they could reform in the second round.

3rd round is complex because all the games suck and I haven't read the manga.

Avatar image for rabii99
#4 Posted by Rabii99 (1935 posts) - - Show Bio

If speed is stacked then Composite Jinchuriki blitzes.

Avatar image for anomalous
#5 Posted by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto, Bee and Gaara are the only relevant members of team 1. Almost all the other jinchuriki are featless; Yuugito is the 4th strongest (or 5th if we give Yagura the benefit of the doubt for being a kage) and she lost to Hidan and Kakuzu without hurting them at all. Even the other tailed beasts themselves are much weaker than Kurama/Gyuuki. But a composite Akatsuki character with all the rinnegan abilities + intangibility + amaterasu + flying + immortality? Akatsuki stomp hard every round.

Avatar image for zuriel-el
#6 Posted by Zuriel-el (3382 posts) - - Show Bio

jinchuriki

Avatar image for worldofruin6
#8 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3873 posts) - - Show Bio

BB GG Vs Hax.

Avatar image for ultimatesage
#9 Posted by UltimateSage (3702 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup

Avatar image for anomalous
#10 Posted by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

It's actually amazing that anyone thinks jinchuriki can win this

  • They aren't blitzing. Itachi has similar combat speed to KCM Naruto. "He was faster as an edo so it doesn't count". Debatable, but either way he still had lightning speed reaction time while alive. Even if the jinchuriki could theoretically blitz they'd have to somehow use an attack that counters:
  • "TBB GG" is out of the question. They could make one that's the size of a planet and it won't do anything against intangibility.
  • Clones didn't use Kurama avatar prior to 6PSM, so they get countered by C4, shinra, chibaku or water dome
  • Chakra cloak can be absorbed with samehada or rinnegan
  • Genjutsu is still momentarily effective against perfect jinchuriki https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/413/9
Avatar image for undre
#11 Posted by Undre (4281 posts) - - Show Bio

Nagato by himself solos the tailed beast with CT or gedo mazu.

Obito cant be touched. And can just BFR a few of them.

Itach onw shots with ammertasu

Yeah the beast get stomped

Avatar image for emperormode
#12 Posted by EmperorMode (557 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite J wins extremely difficult tho...

Avatar image for grandtoaa
#13 Posted by GrandTOAA (986 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Akatsuki stomps

Avatar image for token1300
#14 Posted by Token1300 (316 posts) - - Show Bio

Jinchuriki start off in tailed beast form and spam multiple mountain busting biju damas.

Avatar image for zuriel-el
#15 Posted by Zuriel-el (3382 posts) - - Show Bio

this is basically a jubi jin vs akatsuki.

Avatar image for shogunspider-man89
#16 Edited by ShogunSpider-Man89 (4 posts) - - Show Bio

The Jinchuraki win this battle.

Avatar image for invadedtbd
#17 Posted by InvadedTBD (1695 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Akatsuki takes it easily.

Hidans immortality, six paths abilities, kamui, susanno, tsukuyomi, kisame's chakra drain, I could go on but this already isn't fair.

Avatar image for anomalous
#18 Edited by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el said:

this is basically a jubi jin vs akatsuki.

It's nothing like that. Ever heard the expression "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts"? OP obviously doesn't intend that the tailed beasts merge into Juubi inside the composite jinchuriki (edit: not that they even could without Gedo statue) so they won't have TSB, the ability to regen half their body, rinnegan, Juubito/Juubidara's speed feats, etc.

Avatar image for zuriel-el
#19 Posted by Zuriel-el (3382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Anomalous:

a composite character is one possessing the power of all its constituents. the nine bijuu together equals jubi. plus naruto didn't have gedo mazou to be a jubi jin, he just has parts of the biju.

Avatar image for anomalous
#20 Posted by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el said:

a composite character is one possessing the power of all its constituents

Yeah and none of the 1-9 tail Jinchuriki have powers/feats on the level of a Juubi jinchuriki.

the nine bijuu together equals jubi.

No. Again, when the tailed beasts combine into Juubi the result is much greater than their total power when split into 9 separate beings. Here's proof:

Kurama's Bijuudama is about equal to 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7 tails combined

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Let's be generous to your argument and say that's only 66% of all the tailed beasts' total power. Does 34% more equal this?

No Caption Provided

naruto didn't have gedo mazou to be a jubi jin, he just has parts of the biju.

1. EoS Naruto is not a Juubi jinchuriki lmao

2. His power came from Hagoromo.... not just absorbing a portion of each tailed beast's chakra. Have you even read the manga?

Avatar image for zuriel-el
#21 Posted by Zuriel-el (3382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Anomalous:

together they could.

dude you are comparing the ten tails to only six bijuu. and not accounting for the fact that naruto sent the blast into the sky. not saying that they outright equal juubi. but their collective power in one person makes the person the jubi jinchuriki. sasuke didn't use gedou mazou when he had all that power he uabsorbed their power and channelled it to susanoo.

You don't need gedou mazou to be a jubi jinchuriki, momoshiki was going to absorb them all and become like kaguya.

1. He is the jinchuriki of the nine bijuu (a jubi jin).

2. Yes and obito is why he could use the power of the other bijuu, (he put pieces of them in him so he vould borrow their power.

Avatar image for anomalous
#22 Edited by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el said:

dude you are comparing the ten tails to only six bijuu

Like I said... Even if we assume the explosion could be upwards of a third bigger with the other tailed beasts it'd still only be like 5% as big as Juubi's

@zuriel-el said:

and not accounting for the fact that naruto sent the blast into the sky.

Into the sky where we can see all of it? As opposed to the Juubidama that might go further into the ground? I'm confused how this helps your case

@zuriel-el said:

but their collective power in one person makes the person the jubi jinchuriki.

Absorbing Juubi makes someone a Juubi jinchuriki. Nothing else

@zuriel-el said:

sasuke didn't use gedou mazou when he had all that power he uabsorbed their power and channelled it to susanoo.

Sasuke's tailed beast susanoo isn't as strong as Juubi either

@zuriel-el said:

You don't need gedou mazou to be a jubi jinchuriki, momoshiki was going to absorb them all and become like kaguya.

Wtf are you even talking about dude? He didn't care about reforming Juubi and becoming its jinchuriki. He just wanted to eat the tailed beasts' chakra.

You 100% need Gedo statue to create Juubi. In fact it's the most important component. Little tiny baby amounts of tailed beast chakra will work as long as it finds its way into Gedo

@zuriel-el said:

1. He is the jinchuriki of the nine bijuu (a jubi jin).

2. Yes and obito is why he could use the power of the other bijuu, (he put pieces of them in him so he vould borrow their power.

Stop it. You're embarrassing yourself. Naruto first got a link to all the other tailed beasts when Son Goku swallowed him just before he obtained KCM2. By your logic he should have been a "jubi jin" at that point, right? And to be clear, he isn't their "jinchuriki". All of them other than Kurama and Gyuuki are out doing their own thing; Naruto just has a very small part of them for communication.

Avatar image for supermanforever
#23 Posted by Supermanforever (8982 posts) - - Show Bio

Composie Jinchuriki means also final form Madara. In that case he destroys akatsuki. Not even close.

Avatar image for supermanforever
#24 Posted by Supermanforever (8982 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Akatsuki takes it easily.

Hidans immortality, six paths abilities, kamui, susanno, tsukuyomi, kisame's chakra drain, I could go on but this already isn't fair.

Final form Madara is ten tails jinchuriki, has immortaility, sox paths abilities including limbo(which pain doesnt have), much more powerfull tsukuyomi, kisame chakra drain is pathetic compared to rinnegans though madara does not need to drain chakra. Other than that.

Madara has truth seeking balls, ridiculous levels of chakra, speed, regeneration and list goes on. This also includes Narutos abilities which all tailed beats transformations. Six path sage mode and chakra mode.

Combination of Madara and Naruto would trump them casually.

Avatar image for anomalous
#25 Posted by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanforever: Is it not obvious that Juubi jinchuriki's are excluded? I don't see a pic of Juubidara in the OP

Avatar image for supermanforever
#26 Posted by Supermanforever (8982 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanforever: Is it not obvious that Juubi jinchuriki's are excluded? I don't see a pic of Juubidara in the OP

well since its jinchuriki battle, i assume all jinchuriki are included.

Avatar image for anomalous
#27 Posted by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous said:

@supermanforever: Is it not obvious that Juubi jinchuriki's are excluded? I don't see a pic of Juubidara in the OP

well since its jinchuriki battle, i assume all jinchuriki are included.

No BSM Naruto. That'd be too strong. But I guess it doesn't say no Juubidara :^)

Avatar image for zuriel-el
#28 Posted by Zuriel-el (3382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Anomalous:

Dude the sage of the six paths sealed the jubi in himself and seal gedou mazou in the moon. gedou mazou not needed.

if all the bijuu are sealed in a person they become the jubi jinchuriki. thats fact.

you're right sasuke is stronger.

he wanted immortality, he wanted to be like Kaguya. they eat those pills to have immortality and power

he didn't have pieces of them inside him. why would he. After obito put pieces of them in him he had access to their collective power. Heck even the sage of the six paths split them, believing in Ashura's ideology that a multitude is better than a single person. for instance madara doesn't have the individual power of the biju, shukaku's sand, matatabi's fire etc, but naruto has all of these. just stop... sheeesh.

Avatar image for anomalous
#29 Posted by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude the sage of the six paths sealed the jubi in himself and seal gedou mazou in the moon. gedou mazou not needed.

Wrong again. He had both inside himself and then when he split Juubi into 9 parts he sent Gedo into space and it eventually became the moon.

if all the bijuu are sealed in a person they become the jubi jinchuriki. thats fact.

We've never seen someone have the tailed beasts all sealed directly into them. They always become Juubi (via Gedo statue) first then the person absorbs it

you're right sasuke is stronger.

You can't say things like that and expect to be taken seriously. Scroll up, take another look at that Juubidama then go find a feat that puts Sasuke above it. I'll wait

he wanted immortality, he wanted to be like Kaguya. they eat those pills to have immortality and power

Momo already thought he was superior to Kaguya and that she feared him. Let's stay on topic though. That in no way proves your claim that Juubi can exist outside of Gedo. He wanted power. Chakra gives power. Feel free to show me the scan or movie scene where he even mentions Juubi once

he didn't have pieces of them inside him. why would he.

If I had a dollar for every incorrect claim...

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

After obito put pieces of them in him he had access to their collective power.

He used literally 1 jutsu with son goku's chakra and 1 jutsu with shukaku's. That's not terribly impressive and doesn't support the theory that he has a ton of chakra from all the tailed beasts.

for instance madara doesn't have the individual power of the biju, shukaku's sand, matatabi's fire etc, but naruto has all of these. just stop... sheeesh.

Do you know why Juubito and Juubidara can't use the tailed beasts' individual powers? Because they are Juubi's jinchuriki and not jinchurikis of the 9 tailed beasts.There is a very clear distinction. That distinction is also why Naruto's skin doesn't look like clay, he can't regenerate half his body and lacks the destructive power of Juubi.

Avatar image for redshift_bacon
#30 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (885 posts) - - Show Bio

So basically BM Naruto with all chakra natures, including Boil Release, against Composite Akatsuski..?

Unfair match up. Akatsuski should have at least comparible stats due to prime Itachi and Obito’s feats against KCM/BM Naruto. Naruto has a lot of hax resistance here, and using Boil Release could increase his physical stats, but thats not going to be enough here. Akatsuski is going to have 5 minutes of Invulnerability, Rinnegan Hax, MS Hax, Poison, BFR. There are too many options for the Akatsuski member.

BSM Naruto against this team would be a better fight. Or maybe Living Madara. Regular BM Naruto cant take this without precog and the stat boost from Sage Mode.

Round 1: Akatsuski 8/10

Round 2: Akatsuski 10/10

Round 3: Unsure (I dont play the games)

Avatar image for invadedtbd
#31 Posted by InvadedTBD (1695 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanforever: I assumed juubidara was excluded.

But if he is apart of the comp jinchuriki, I could definitely see the fight going their way.

Limbo is too hax, but if he isn't Akatsuki should win.

Avatar image for zuriel-el
#32 Posted by Zuriel-el (3382 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous:

Zetsu disagrees with you. you're quoting obito, who wasn't there. gedoi mazou (juubi/kaguyas real body) was the chibaku tensei core

https://i5.mangapanda.com/naruto/681/naruto-5009465.jpg

she was sealed by her sons.

https://i5.mangapanda.com/naruto/681/naruto-5009467.jpg

https://i1.mangapanda.com/naruto/681/naruto-5009469.jpg

the jubi became the chibaku tensei core and became the moon.

https://i3.mangapanda.com/naruto/681/naruto-5009471.jpg

even hagoromo didn't know everything.

https://i3.mangapanda.com/naruto/681/naruto-5009481.jpg

madara summoned gedou mazou, from the moon (jubis body) now it's kaguya that was sealed in the moon remember that.

https://i9.mangapanda.com/naruto/606/naruto-3646485.jpg

i summoned them mazou from the seal stone.

The same moon seal was used on kaguya again and gedou mazou is getting sealed.

https://i5.mangapanda.com/naruto/690/naruto-5158759.jpg

six paths chibaku tensei.

https://i8.mangapanda.com/naruto/690/naruto-5158761.jpg

kaguya relives the memory of her first defeat.

https://i2.mangapanda.com/naruto/690/naruto-5158767.jpg

gedou mazou is being sealed and the bijuu fall out of it.

https://i10.mangapanda.com/naruto/690/naruto-5158763.jpg

just as he did the first time hagorormo extracts the chakra leaving the husk.

https://i10.mangapanda.com/naruto/670/naruto-4861477.jpg

we took its chakra. (sage of six paths is jubi jin)

the sage of six paths split the biju due to ashuras ideology. believing that divided they are stronger.

https://i4.mangapanda.com/naruto/670/naruto-4861485.jpg

Ashura's ideology.

https://i6.mangapanda.com/naruto/670/naruto-4861487.jpg

i believed co-operation is the true power. so6p believes the nine individually are superior to jubi individually. so6p opinion about his own power>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>yours.

the sage of six paths didn't do that. he sealed the gedou mazou (kaguyas body) in the moon. he didn't need the mazou. ir was sealed the day kaguya was defeated, i already proved this, stop quoting someone who wasn't there.

https://i2.mangapanda.com/naruto/690/naruto-5158767.jpg

zetsu made them get the mazou so as to revive his mommy.

where are the feats that put madara above the jubi, we already that jinchuriki >> biju.

https://www.mangareader.net/naruto/638/15

naruto and sasuke handed madara a beating individually even, sasuke surpassed naruto and you're asking me for sasukes feats that surpass jubi... really? stop asking me for explosions. jubito was rivaled (he couldn't kill them) by bsm and ems sasuke, he was stronger than jubi.

he thought and thought wrong, feat wise momoshiki is weaker, plus why would he want power from someone weaker than him. I already proved that jubi can exist outside gedou mazou within the six paths.

thats what hagoromo did. even when he split them, they were still in him. sheesh. obito wasn't there.

and sasuke used susanoo to host their chakra, creating the sage of six paths susanoo (another thing madara doesn't have)

https://i5.mangapanda.com/naruto/696/naruto-5244901.jpg

sasuke yanked out the chakra and put it in susanoo.

you'd still be broke compared to me 😜 obito yanked pieces and heres the proof.

https://i8.mangapanda.com/naruto/666/naruto-4813457.jpg

he yanked them from madara.

https://i5.mangapanda.com/naruto/671/naruto-4876851.jpg

even a piece of yang kurama. though he had yin.

https://i3.mangapanda.com/naruto/671/naruto-4876849.jpg

and gyuki confirms Naruto's biju power is from obito. the six paths sage mode might be from hagoromo along with the moon seal, but the power of the bijuu naruto has is definitely from obito.

lol one jutsu? super bijuu rasenshuriken disagrees,

https://i9.mangapanda.com/naruto/688/naruto-5100767.jpg

https://i1.mangapanda.com/naruto/688/naruto-5100769.jpg

thats the nine chakra natures of all the bijuu.

https://i4.mangapanda.com/naruto/684/naruto-5046225.jpg

note: when they gave him pieces of their chakra, he didn't converse with them like this.

https://i2.mangapanda.com/naruto/684/naruto-5046227.jpg

https://i2.mangapanda.com/naruto/684/naruto-5046227.jpg

he also used koukuo to amp his strength.

https://i6.mangapanda.com/naruto/684/naruto-5046229.jpg

and sent kaguya flying. (top right panel).

https://i7.mangapanda.com/boruto/32/boruto-11941111.jpg

current naruto still has their powers.

the jubi is the aggregate of the nine biju, the reason they can't use their powers individually is because they merged the biju into one.

https://i8.mangapanda.com/naruto/666/naruto-4813453.jpg

thats what madaras looked like. they had no individuality.

even hagoromo beleived they are stronger while seperate and naruto prove it. theres so many things naruto can do that madara can't as the jubi jinchuriki.

(look up, and Read from the top), madara can't use their chakra natures, he can't amp his strength, he isn't as durable as naruto etc.

madara also admitted that naruto has the same power as him, six paths senjutsu.

https://i3.mangapanda.com/naruto/673/naruto-4906987.jpg

and as to why naruto doesn't look like him... naruto is ashura, how many jinchuriki develop a chakra mode after controlling their biju... And you're bringing up regen, in durability naruto surpasses them all (took a moon breaker without a scratch), senjutsu can't even be called his weakness in comparison to those two, (sasuke's susano arrows would've killed jubito, they would've destroyed a huge part of madaras body). madara survived rasenshuriken because he absorbed the god tree.

Avatar image for anomalous
#33 Edited by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el Man, if you're going to share this many scans without actually posting them in picture form at least make them real links (and maybe quote what you're responding to as well?). On top of that only a handful of them are relevant to the topics at hand:

  1. Juubi being able to exist without Gedo
  2. Total power of the 9 tailed beasts equaling the power of Juubi

I've already disproven the latter with a very clear comparison of their strongest attacks' DC. It's completely irrelevant what 6PSM Naruto and rinne-sharingan Sasuke did with their chakra, because they also got direct buffs from Hagoromo. Frankly it's ignorant to suggest that all of Naruto's power comes only from having "chunks" of the tailed beasts put into him by Obito. Hagoromo flat out says that he's giving Naruto and Sasuke equal amounts of power this time around because he feels he may have made a mistake with Indra and Asura by only empowering one. So think how much stronger Sasuke got post-death; that's also how much of Naruto's strength Hagoromo is responsible for. Yes Naruto can use all the tailed beasts' chakra in small doses (literally 1 jutsu worth... he had none other than Kurama's left against Sasuke) but they aren't responsible for his massive power spike. That's the end of that discussion as far as I'm concerned. No need to keep trying to prove something which is clear to everyone but you.

Now about Juubi and Gedo existing separately:

You like Zetsu's version of the story? He says that Kaguya (Gedo) is a part of Juubi

No Caption Provided

I know you want the bottom right panel on this one to say "Gedo statue / Kaguya's husk was turned into the core of chibaku tensei", but it doesn't. It says "Juubi". It'd be very bizarre to refer to Gedo statue as Juubi if it isn't even a necessary component of Juubi, no?

No Caption Provided

When Naruto and Sasuke sealed Kaguya did the tailed beasts remain fused into Juubi? No. They immediately separated.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

So even if the first time Kaguya was sealed Juubi and Gedo existed separately for a while, they obviously can't after Hagoromo split Juubi

Avatar image for zuriel-el
#34 Posted by Zuriel-el (3382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Anomalous:

i can't, I'm on a phone. opera browser.

1. jubi is able to exist seperately from gedou mazou √

2. the sage of the six paths ie their creator their first jinchuriki agrees with me. madara being weaker than naruto is, is futher proof, if six paths madara tried fighting adult naruto, what do you think would happen.

you haven't disproven anything, you posted a scan with a jubi dama and a scan with six bijuu using biju dama against each other ie their powers were cancelling each other out and three biju weren't involved.

the biju power (ie being able to use their individual ability and having chakra for battle) is from obito, i posted the links proving this. if the six paths buff was all that (his power source instead of an amp plus new abilities) why would naruto need specifically, kokuo to amp his physical strength (sent kaguya flying, when he tried initially with normal chakra arms he was blown away but with kokuo he even ripped her hand off) , why would he need shukaku for sealing and why would he need kurama to provide him with the chakra to exist in that (so6p mode) form.

he gave sasuke a rinnegan (its useless if sasuke doesn't use chakra to activate its jutsu).

six paths sage mode (needs kurama supplying naruto with chakra and other biju to use various jutsu)

you're contradicting the story.

except sasuke only got a speed buff and rinnegan abilities (he had susanoo and everything else prior to this), naruto's chakra mode chakra is from kurama this is further emphasized when he needed kurama to help him gather chakra when he battled sasuke. yes naruto got the six paths sage mode, which amped him and gave him flight plus able to touch gudou dama but even Hagoromo admitted naruto leaving there depended on what people in the outside world did with him. (ie they have to put bijuu in him. yin kurama, pieces of the others including yang kurama.)

https://i10.mangapanda.com/naruto/670/naruto-4861473.jpg

yes he did, he WAS there, obito heard stories from zetsu's puppet.

my MOTHER (kaguya) was sealed by her sons, kaguya (gedou mazou the husk) was part of it, it got sealed in the moon.

you can literally see hagoromo say he was retrieving them in that scan no? (he brought the bijuu out) its like the god tree existing outside the jinchuriki and having the rinnegan, for madara to become kaguya he had to absorb the god tree. (it gave him the ability to cast IT).

its quite simple, when minato ripped kuramas chakra in two, the half he took in formed another kurama (yin kurama), when naruto took kuramas chakra he put it seperate from where kurama was sealed while kurama looked emaciated.

https://i6.mangapanda.com/naruto/499/naruto-1395110.jpg

kuramas chakra ripped out looks like kurama (until it is absorbed)

https://i2.mangapanda.com/naruto/499/naruto-1395111.jpg

https://i2.mangapanda.com/naruto/499/naruto-1395113.jpg

emaciated kurama.

https://i7.mangapanda.com/naruto/505/naruto-1459121.jpg

naruto sealed the chakra away from kurama. why wouldn't the ten tails chakra hagoromo ripped out have a jubi form until its absorbed huh? why can't you accept that gedou mazou is jubi/kaguya without her chakra. why can't you accept that even if kaguya and jubi are parts of a whole, one can be ripped out leaving the other behind. after all half kurama exists.

hagoromo sealed the jubis chakra in himself (not the husk which is kaguya) and sent the jubis body (gedou mazou which is kaguya) to space to become the moon.

https://i10.mangapanda.com/naruto/670/naruto-4861477.jpg

we took its chakra and sealed it in our bodies. seriously!!! what are you arguing.

if hagoromo could split them he can put them back together, yin and yang kurama are back as one now aren't they? he can put them together.

Zetsu needed gedou mazou, it is the only way to get kaguya back.

Avatar image for anomalous
#36 Edited by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el said:

the sage of the six paths ie their creator their first jinchuriki agrees with me

Still refering to that lame lecture quote that can be summed up as "the power of love and friendship are what r e a l strength is"? Sorry, feats are what matter here.

@zuriel-el said:

madara being weaker than naruto is, is futher proof, if six paths madara tried fighting adult naruto, what do you think would happen.

Double rinnegan Juubidara? Current Naruto would still lose lol. Even if that weren't the case, you absolutely can't say that the tailed beasts being split are the reason why he'd win. Don't be ridiculous. Any growth in power from EoS -> The Last -> Boruto is the result of training and physical stat gains. Bet Madara would get a lot stronger if he had 20 years to fine tune his new powers too.

@zuriel-el said:

you haven't disproven anything, you posted a scan with a jubi dama and a scan with six bijuu using biju dama against each other ie their powers were cancelling each other out and three biju weren't involved.

That's totally how explosions work right? Everyone knows the best way to cancel out TNT is by adding more TNT... All Naruto/Kurama did was deflect the attack. No reason to believe that one explosion contained the other. And for the third time, even if we assume that the collective beast bomb explosion would have been 50% bigger had the 3 remaining tailed beasts contributed (which is a stretch considering Kurama is by far the strongest) it'd still be stupidly small compared to a Juubidama. Maybe 5-10% the size. Keep in mind we're talking about a Juubi who's missing almost all of Kurama here.

@zuriel-el said:

the biju power (ie being able to use their individual ability and having chakra for battle) is from obito, i posted the links proving this. if the six paths buff was all that (his power source instead of an amp plus new abilities) why would naruto need specifically, kokuo to amp his physical strength (sent kaguya flying, when he tried initially with normal chakra arms he was blown away but with kokuo he even ripped her hand off) , why would he need shukaku for sealing and why would he need kurama to provide him with the chakra to exist in that (so6p mode) form.

I never said the tailed beasts' chakra didn't come from Obito, but it isn't responsible for the potency of Naruto's attacks. Changing chakra nature would be meaningless if the jutsu weren't amped by 6PSM. I mean Han can use boil release, so do you think he could send Kaguya flying too? Would Roshi be able to cut down the God tree with his Lava style? Of course not. Even with tailed beast chakra, the techniques are only as strong as the user.

@zuriel-el said:

he gave sasuke a rinnegan (its useless if sasuke doesn't use chakra to activate its jutsu).

So you don't recognize that Sasuke's stats got a massive boost on top of gaining rinnegan? Pure ignorance.

@zuriel-el said:

six paths sage mode (needs kurama supplying naruto with chakra and other biju to use various jutsu)

He can use 6PSM outside of KCM

No Caption Provided

Yes, he needs the tailed beasts to use certain releases but like I said the strength of jutsu incorporating those releases would be massively reduced if Naruto himself weren't so strong.

@zuriel-el said:

except sasuke only got a speed buff and rinnegan abilities (he had susanoo and everything else prior to this)

Please just tell me you're trolling. Teleportation is not a generic rinnegan ability, he couldn't use PS prior to meeting Hagoromo, his running speed was increased to a point comparable to 8th Gate Guy, his reaction time and durability increased substantially, and his chakra pool is much bigger as well (supported by how he ran out against Itachi and shortly after fighting Danzo, but now has enough to fight Madara, Kaguya, and Naruto without rest)

@zuriel-el said:

naruto's chakra mode chakra is from kurama this is further emphasized when he needed kurama to help him gather chakra when he battled sasuke.

No shit his chakra mode comes from Kurama. Go compare KCM Naruto to 6PSM Naruto, then compare his various jutsu where he used tailed beast chakra to the original jinchurikis' jutsu and tell me how they match up. What's more responsible for Naruto's power... 6PSM or tailed beast chakra? Hmmmm I wonder.

@zuriel-el said:

even Hagoromo admitted naruto leaving there depended on what people in the outside world did with him. (ie they have to put bijuu in him. yin kurama, pieces of the others including yang kurama.)

Naruto needed Kurama (not all the tailed beasts) to stay alive. Sasuke was on the verge of death and needed to be healed as well. This is irrelevant to the power Hagoromo gave each of them; all he's saying is that he's unable to stop their death unless people on the "outside" intervene.

@zuriel-el said:

yes he did, he WAS there, obito heard stories from zetsu's puppet.

"Yes he did" what? I have no idea what part of my comment you're responding to here.

@zuriel-el said:

my MOTHER (kaguya) was sealed by her sons, kaguya (gedou mazou the husk) was part of it, it got sealed in the moon.

That's not what the scan says... It says "Juubi" became the core. So I'll ask you again, it'd be very strange to refer to Gedo as "Juubi" if Juubi can exist without Gedo, would it not?

@zuriel-el said:

you can literally see hagoromo say he was retrieving them in that scan no?

Hagoromo is talking about bringing them back to the real world and what he's doing in that scan is summoning all the dead kage to help. He obviously doesn't have enough power in that state to split Juubi while it's in a different dimension. If he did you think m a y b e he'd have helped in their fight just a tad more? Get real and stop twisting words to fit your argument.

@zuriel-el said:

its quite simple, when minato ripped kuramas chakra in two, the half he took in formed another kurama (yin kurama)

Confused how this is relevant. You think half of the tailed beasts' chakra stayed with Gedo statue or something? It never would have reverted to Gedo if that were the case.

@zuriel-el said:

why can't you accept that gedou mazou is jubi/kaguya without her chakra

That's exactly what I've been arguing all along. Hello? Yes, Gedo is Juubi without the tailed beasts' chakra. Glad you came around.

@zuriel-el said:

why can't you accept that even if kaguya and jubi are parts of a whole, one can be ripped out leaving the other behind. after all half kurama exists.

Kaguya and Juubi aren't 2 parts of a whole. Kaguya is just part of Juubi. The main part.

@zuriel-el said:

hagoromo sealed the jubis chakra in himself (not the husk which is kaguya) and sent the jubis body (gedou mazou which is kaguya) to space to become the moon.

we took its chakra and sealed it in our bodies. seriously!!! what are you arguing.

Here are the 2 possibilities as I see them:

  1. Hagoromo, being an Otsutsuki himself, was able to act as a substitute for Kaguya as Juubi's body
  2. Since the 9 tailed beasts didn't exist yet, Juubi was able to remain whole apart from Kaguya/Gedo in chakra form. Now that it's been split it can't remain whole without the main body to keep it together. This is backed up by the fact that they didn't form Juubi inside of Naruto and how they immediately split the second time Kaguya was sealed.
Avatar image for cyogre
#37 Edited by Cyogre (165 posts) - - Show Bio

Jinchuriki lmfaowtfstomp

Avatar image for son_of_mori-jin
#38 Posted by Son_of_Mori-jin (437 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for deactivated-5d065fa72d466
#39 Posted by deactivated-5d065fa72d466 (2222 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Akatsuki wins R1 and R2.

Composite Jin godstomps R3

Avatar image for zuriel-el
#40 Posted by Zuriel-el (3382 posts) - - Show Bio

@Anomalous:

That ''love and cooperation is power crap'' is basically the whole point in naruto. heck obito was defeated by naruto and his peers, madara was losing to narusuke, and kaguya was beaten by team kakashi.

well I'm grateful you say that its training that made naruto powerful not six paths amp. and madara can't even scratch the last (jut two years in the future) naruto unless you think madara can break the moon. even eos naruto outstats madara, and naruto is more powerful unless madara can somehow beat narutos ashura.

you can put a fire out with a bigger fire. how can an explosion repel another if they aren't cancelling each other out, and stop comparing six biju to the ten tails, if all nine formed a bijuu dama with their collective they would rival the ten tails. not firing individually or against each other. and is there any other jubi in the story.

this isn't dragon ball, potency isn't a thing or all jutsu from naruto would look the same when they explode, its power and the jutsu used, biju dama doesn't destroy at cellular level, rasenshuriken does, and if naruto entered a normal sage mode he would damage madara with an ordinary rasengan like he did obito, ripping the gid tree is rasenshuriken and its range is what cut down the gos tree, tobirama cut the roots with water style too. actually changing chakra nature and adding pure chairs from kurama is what makes them so damn destructive aoe. narutos chakra comes from kurama, when he had to battle sasuke did you see sasuke saying your six paths chakra is small compared to mine? no.... he said the chakra you have from the biju is small compared to mine. sheesh, the six paths sage mode chakra mode, which is whats so damn awesome is kuramas chakra plus six paths sage mode, without kurama naruto would go about in the base form he showed up in and get flayed.

if han punched kaguya with kokuos strength yes she would fly (sakura moved her with a punch). Hans hits were so powerful naruto and bee couldn't contain them and hachibi couldn't tank a direct physical attack from kokuo he had to punch her to avoid getting hit a second time, roshi doesn't have rasenshuriken and kurama. and in this case the user is naruto its like u said it also depends on the jinchutiki, kind of how other biju users don't develop a chakra mode.

its not ignorance, you replied before reading the whole paragraph, sasuke got a speed boost but please don't say he can hang with 8 gate guy, madara got tagged when he teleported and when madara was not paying attention. sasuke didn't blitz him with foot speed the way guy did.

if this form was powerful compared to his chakra mode, why not fight on it, instead he went ahead to use kuramas chakra for a chakra mode. yes he needs the biju and kurama is the source of the enormous amount of chakra naruto uses in battle and rasenshuriken has more penetrating power than bijudama. 3rd rikage had gashes when naruto hit him, but gyuki couldn't scratch him and rasenshuriken is not as destructive as biju dama. naruto gave the chakra of a biju to a rasenshuriken.

teleportation is something sasuke uses his rinnegan for (its the rinnegan that gave him that, its like me claiming kamui is not a sharingan ability)... he used a half complete susanoo, he he can't compare to guy (guy ran on air molecules and warped space with night moth and madara was only tagged twice teleportation and when he was going after something else and sasuke suddenly cut him in two. sasukes durability increased how? his chakra pool didn't increase you'll have to prove this, when he fought danzou he used susanoo throughout, how many minutes did they fight madara, like what is that great and lengthy fight sasuke had that makes you say this, for most of the kaguya battle sasuke was in another dimension naruto was the one fighting during that time, when he fought naruto using stolen chakra you know.

against madara the fight didn't last an hour.

against kaguya he wasn't there for most of it. and he was mostly just standing ther letting naruto and clones do everything (in that figth there was no spectacular chakra usage from sasuke) susanoo only at the beginning, and the teleportation and chidori then moon seal.

against naruto he took bijuu chakra to hang with naruto and then started taking narutos chakra as well.

lets compare bijuu mode naruto to his base so6p mode without help from any bijuu.

naruto needed all the bijuu to be powerful.

https://i3.mangapanda.com/naruto/671/naruto-4876849.jpg

(biju power).

if he went out without this he would've had to find another way to amp his stats against kaguya and how to cut down the god tree. seal limbo etc. he wouldn't have his destructive power.

zetsu called the god tree and kaguya together jubi.

before he says jubi, he said my mother was sealed by her sons. it is gedo mazo that was sealed in the moon. thats what madara summoned from the moon, thats what the jubi (kaguya) is without its/her chakra.

he had the power to create a moon, and his chakra which he gave naruto and sasuke returned back after they sealed kaguya, they got to keep their powers though. and he summoned all the kage from the after life and undid edo tensei cast by someone else, even sakuras chakra opened the way to several dimensions, but hagoromo can't split biju, something minato could do when he was low on chakra. because they are in another dimension.... oh well. You may be righter, i may be right, either way pointless.

the sage of six paths split the jubi after he sealed in inside himself (in fact years later after his kids had geown up into adults), so i will ask, what was the jubi in him until then?

when bijuu get their chakra ripped out they don't vanish, when kurama lost more chakra he got emaciated, when hagoromo ripped out all the ten tails chakra and became the ten tails jinchhriki, what was left was gedou mazou the emaciated form of jubi. understand before replying.

gedou mazou is also kaguya, which is what you are failing to understand. zetsu said that his mother was sealed and refers to what was sealed as jubi. this tallys with your second assertion (this is my argument).

kaguya, the god, tree the jubi, and kaguya is the one controlling every aspect. can u be a part of something and be the one controlling it unless you're the main part. kaguya ate a fruit, much like momoshiki ate kinshiki.

1. wrong, the gedo mazou waa sealed, the ten tails was sealed in sage of six paths, just like when minato took the dark half of kuramas chakra, it formes another kurama, except in this case hagoromo didn't take half but all.

2. you finally came around, it remained whole, and then the sage split them up. if the sage wants to join them he can, the two kurama were put back together, nothing stops the biju from being joined that way as well. gedo mazou is what brings kaguya.

its like when the gedo mazou (the husk) was ripped out of obito (madara summoned it) and yet obito still had its chakra and thats what he gave kakashi.

Avatar image for zuriel-el
#41 Posted by Zuriel-el (3382 posts) - - Show Bio

@anomalous:

QUESTION. When the aage of the six paths split the biju inside him, and made them nine instead of one, did he become weaker?

QUESTION: If yes, why not put them back together, why would he still beleive in splitting up powers, he broke his power between narusuke.

QUESTION: If no... What are you arguing.

Avatar image for anomalous
#42 Edited by Anomalous (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@zuriel-el said:

That ''love and cooperation is power crap'' is basically the whole point in naruto. heck obito was defeated by naruto and his peers, madara was losing to narusuke, and kaguya was beaten by team kakashi.

We call that PIS. Big difference between winning with talk no jutsu / Sakura being able to fold Kaguya and legitimitely being stronger. The 9 tailed beasts are not collectively as strong or stronger than Juubi by feats.

@zuriel-el said:

well I'm grateful you say that its training that made naruto powerful not six paths amp. and madara can't even scratch the last (jut two years in the future) naruto unless you think madara can break the moon. even eos naruto outstats madara, and naruto is more powerful unless madara can somehow beat narutos ashura.

this isn't dragon ball, potency isn't a thing

These 2 arguments are mutually exclusive. I don't believe Toneri is a "moon breaking" character (it's like equating someone who chops a log with a sharp axe to someone who can make it explode with a sledgehammer) but that's beside the point. The only attacks that actually hurt Naruto in The Last didn't have anywhere near moon level DC.

@zuriel-el said:

stop comparing six biju to the ten tails, if all nine formed a bijuu dama with their collective they would rival the ten tails.

Feel free to keep saying that all you want, but it goes against what we've seen in the manga. The only way to prove me wrong is with scans that show how their TBB can possibly add up to a Juubidama.

@zuriel-el said:

its not ignorance, you replied before reading the whole paragraph, sasuke got a speed boost but please don't say he can hang with 8 gate guy, madara got tagged when he teleported and when madara was not paying attention. sasuke didn't blitz him with foot speed the way guy did.

Sasuke blitzed Madara with running speed. Madara noticed him but only had time to flinch.

No Caption Provided

I'd agree that this isn't as fast as Guy but it's up there for sure. 6PSM Naruto couldn't even blitz like that while Madara was sitting still on the ground recovering from Guy's final attack.

@zuriel-el said:

if this form was powerful compared to his chakra mode, why not fight on it, instead he went ahead to use kuramas chakra for a chakra mode.

Did I say he's stronger without KCM? I simply said that he doesn't NEED Kurama to use 6PSM and that 6PSM is the primary source of his strength. There's no reason not to combine the two.

@zuriel-el said:

1. teleportation is something sasuke uses his rinnegan for (its the rinnegan that gave him that, its like me claiming kamui is not a sharingan ability)...

2. sasukes durability increased how?

3. his chakra pool didn't increase you'll have to prove this, when he fought danzou he used susanoo throughout, how many minutes did they fight madara, like what is that great and lengthy fight sasuke had that makes you say this, for most of the kaguya battle sasuke was in another dimension naruto was the one fighting during that time, when he fought naruto using stolen chakra you know.

1. The point is that you're trying to downplay it. "Sasuke got a rinnegan so what nbd". Teleportation is a MASSIVE power increase and one of the most hax abilities in the series.

2. Probably the best example is how he wasn't noticeably injured when Kaguya literally turned his Susanoo into an explosive

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

3. You honestly believe the battle with Danzo required equal amounts of chakra to the 2 entire last days of war arc? Debunking that would be a waste of time; everyone knows it to be false. When he fought Naruto he stole chakra from the tailed beasts, yes, but Naruto also had to have a Kurama clone gather nature nature energy (and a lot of it). Prior to that point Sasuke used many large fireballs, amaterasu, susanoo arrows, perfect susanoo and Kirin.

@zuriel-el said:

lets compare bijuu mode naruto to his base so6p mode without help from any bijuu.

naruto needed all the bijuu to be powerful.

if he went out without this he would've had to find another way to amp his stats against kaguya and how to cut down the god tree. seal limbo etc. he wouldn't have his destructive power.

Why do I keep having to repeat myself? Comprehend it this time please before responding: Obito only gave Naruto small pieces of all the tailed beasts, and that allows him to occasionally use their chakra natures. Nothing more. HAGOROMO buffed him with 6PSM. That's what gives him the speed to fight God tiers like Madara and Kaguya. That's how he could create an eye out of thin air for Kakashi and reverse the effects of the 8th gate. That's what lets him make a rasenshuriken big enough to cut down the God tree. inb4 "but he used Son Goku's chakra tho". So I don't have to repeat myself a 5th time I'll just stress it now: borrowing chakra from a tailed beast does not give Naruto the technique to make jutsu on that scale. No other perfect jinchuriki can. Again, all he's doing is changing the nature of the jutsu; the tailed beasts are not responsible for anything else. Kurama is obviously the exception since he gives Naruto KCM and a chakra avatar.

@zuriel-el said:

zetsu called the god tree and kaguya together jubi.

before he says jubi, he said my mother was sealed by her sons. it is gedo mazo that was sealed in the moon. thats what madara summoned from the moon, thats what the jubi (kaguya) is without its/her chakra.

That's exactly my point... "Gedo is Juubi without its chakra". If you agree why are we still debating this?

@zuriel-el said:

the sage of six paths split the jubi after he sealed in inside himself (in fact years later after his kids had geown up into adults), so i will ask, what was the jubi in him until then?

when bijuu get their chakra ripped out they don't vanish, when kurama lost more chakra he got emaciated, when hagoromo ripped out all the ten tails chakra and became the ten tails jinchhriki, what was left was gedou mazou the emaciated form of jubi.

Like I said, it's possible that it remained Juubi in chakra form the first time around because it had never been split previously. \ But now that it has been split in can no longer remain as Juubi apart from Gedo. Literally everything in the manga supports that. So as it pertains to this thread, no, a composite jinchuriki would not be a Juubi jinchuriki.

@zuriel-el said:

1. gedou mazou is also kaguya, which is what you are failing to understand. zetsu said that his mother was sealed and refers to what was sealed as jubi. this tallys with your second assertion (this is my argument).

2. kaguya, the god, tree the jubi, and kaguya is the one controlling every aspect. can u be a part of something and be the one controlling it unless you're the main part. kaguya ate a fruit, much like momoshiki ate kinshiki.

  1. I've about had it with your lack of reading comprehension. Quote a SINGLE sentence in this debate where I suggest anything other than "Kaguya is Gedo and Gedo is Juubi without chakra". Never did. Instead of just typing out some nonsense, bullshit strawman response how about you process what I'm saying and actually counter that so we don't have to go back and forth on the same point 10 times?
  2. YES KAGUYA IS THE MAIN PART OF JUUBI. I've said that probably 3 times now if you care to scroll up. Juubi is not a part of her though. Her consciousness peeks through at times but at the end of the day she isn't in control. A mad desire to unite and possess all the chakra overwrites her genuine personality.
@zuriel-el said:

1. wrong, the gedo mazou waa sealed, the ten tails was sealed in sage of six paths, just like when minato took the dark half of kuramas chakra, it formes another kurama, except in this case hagoromo didn't take half but all.

2. if the sage wants to join them he can

  1. That doesn't disprove what I said in any way.
  2. What part of the OP states "the composite jinchuriki have the tailed beasts fused back into Juubi by Hagoromo"?
@zuriel-el said:

@anomalous:

QUESTION. When the aage of the six paths split the biju inside him, and made them nine instead of one, did he become weaker?

QUESTION: If yes, why not put them back together, why would he still beleive in splitting up powers, he broke his power between narusuke.

  • It's very clearly explained that he split them just before his death. He didn't remain the jinchuriki of the 9 tailed beasts.
  • Because he didn't do it for raw power gains... Ironically he split Juubi because he agreed with Asura's way of thinking, and then he split power between Naruto and Sasuke because he realized he may have made a mistake fully believing in Asura.