Grand Inquisitor, General Grievous, Kylo Ren, Darth Vader
Canon for both sides.
Death or KO.
Start 100 feet apart in a Deathstar hangar filled with Tie Fighters, and AT-ST Walkers.
SW side has their Lightsabers, and Grievous has a blaster.
ME side has all top weapons loadouts from ME2, no Heavy Weapons but Grenade Launcher, all abilities max, and all upgrades. Shepard is composite of all classes.
Force Power and Biotics will be treated as equivalent and interact.
Shepard vs Vader would be close, and the other Biotics users with the range advatage, and tech abilities, as well shields and armor would win out over pure lightsabers and force abilities.
@sheevsmacker: canon wise by what feat? I know for a fact I can (and will) show the too numerous to count times Vader struggle with foes and tech well below a Composite Sheaprd has. I know by outliers Shepard has insane feats more so than Vader too.
Vader is confrim light year above the maul and dooku in statement so he scale above Maul feat here.
He also have direct feat against the Sheev when he weakest version of Vader
He ragdoll and stomp the Sheev when he weaker than before than the Anakin.
Vader in LOTS 5 year after ROTS surpass Skywalker with ease.
VADER COMPLETED HIS MEDITATION and opened his eyes. His pale, flame-savaged face stared back at him from out of the reflective black surface of his pressurized meditation chamber. Without the neural connection to his armor, he was conscious of the stumps of his legs, the ruin of his arm, the perpetual pain in his flesh. He welcomed it. Pain fed his hate, and hate fed his strength. Once, as a Jedi, he had meditated to find peace. Now he meditated to sharpen the edges of his anger.
He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they’d perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.
-- Lords Of The Sith
Vader have 23 year carrer or no ? This mean he gain even more power than the LOTS because LOTS Vader very pre prime.
Here are more supremacy for the Vader
Ben Kenobi, vast inferior of Lord Vader can speedblitz and ragdoll they Sheev with an ease
Official Canon of Ben Kenobi speedblitz they Sheev
As you can see the fodder sheev no feat here to competing with even the Fodder Ben Kenobi
By feat Vader can stomp Ben Kenobi or no ?
"Your powers are weak, old man." Our lightsabers clash. I try to push forward, only to be thrust violently back. It's like striking iron. There's no give in Vader's arms, and far too much in mine.
...
"You should not have come back," Vader tells me.
My resources are depleted, my body screaming with pain. I have no hope of winning this fight.
He lunges at me; slash and counterslash, stab and riposte. The air is thick with plasma discharge, lights dancing on the edge of my vision.
I'm forced back, muscle burning, breath ragged. The grip of my lightsaber is slick in my hands, my ears ringing.
Credit to Dawn_Of_Ages
-- From A Certain Point Of View: Time Of Death
Vader also have power scale above the Count Dooku
He is light year above Count Dooku by feat. What is Count Dooku feat? He way above version of Dooku that can equal the Yoda. Feat of Yoda is what?
Sheev: *shoot the lightning*
Yoda: *silence*
Let me show you what happen when Yoda attack the Sheev:
Yoda: *do epic force push*
Sheev: *scream and cry*
-When Sheev be lightning the Yode he say nothing. No reaction. Yoda no sell Sheev lightning. CANON
-When Yode push the Sheev, Sheev ONCE AGAIN SCREAM in pain and he canot do anything. CANON
Sheev SCREAM AND CRY in pain when Yoda push him, when Yode be a lightning by the Sheev, he not scream.
In the end Yoda treat the Sheev like a trash. CANON.
AOTC Dooku can equalling the Yoda per Canon
George Lucas: You can't just go right into the sword fight, so I decided to go back to The Empire Strikes Back of throwing things at each other, even though I knew they were EQUAL to each other, so it was a hopeless gesture and they would've figured that out in two seconds. But for the audience it's nice for them to go through this process of everybody throwing everything around.
Source -- Attack of the Clones DVD Commentary
ROTS Dooku above the AOTC Dooku by statement. ROTS Dooku are Prime.
Vader >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ROTS Dooku >>> AOTC Dooku = Yoda >>>>>>>> Sheev the fodder.
Sheev by feat can kill world and destory all space.
Recalling Palpatine's Wormhole over Da Soocha, Luke Skywalker notes that Force Storms have the power to kill worlds:
"The Reborn Emperor used this at Da Soocha. It has the power to kill worlds."
Source: The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force
Another source mentions that this Wormhole threatened to "consume all of space":
Unleashing the full power of his hatred, he conjures a Force Storm that threatens to consume all of space, including the New Republic fleet.
Source: The Comics Companion
If Sheev can consuming all of space then he is omniversal no ? Vader scale way above the Sheev so he can crub stomp the fodders in this battle.
Shepard vs Vader would be close, and the other Biotics users with the range advatage, and tech abilities, as well shields and armor would win out over pure lightsabers and force abilities.
Out of Character Shepard can almost solo. Darth Vader is stronger than him in the force, but it doesn't matter as Shepard's abilities are more than enough to over come Darth Vader's durability imo. However, the reason why I say Shepard can almost solo is because I personally believe Vader has better reactionary speed. Everyone else is dead weight, due to it being canon versions. However, I think Team Shepard should win due to Liara and possibly Wrex while Thane is dead weight in the sense his stats aren't all that good and his weaponry is meh. I do believe he could take a jobbing General G and Kylo Ren, but loses to GI and Vader.
@achillesspawn: Similar powers, decent fire power, and good tech. Shepard lacks actual reactionary speed which Vader should be superior to him, so he should die, however unlike Vader's side you got Liara and Wrex to support Commander Shepard while Vader basically has no one.
@achillesspawn: I forgot about TP, but does vader TP often? Shepard doesn't have a lot of direct TK feats, just from what we know from lore with other characters who are below him/her. However, hes not going to outdo vader in this department. If you read my comment, i said he has enough to injure/kill vader because he does.
Does vader have a way to see someone invis in canon?
@kaijuking: @merulezall: in TP we have Indoctrination and Moridin feats. Moridin litteraly kills you by overloading your senses and birsting vessels in your brain. Shep resisted. The Prothean Beacon kill any normal human with brain damage. Shepard took it. Reaper Indoctrination speaks for itself. Shepard resisted it hard core.
TP feats.
I also say Liara has insane reaction time thanks to comics. Movie also shows insane reaction time of normal humans and James to scale.
As for TK feats Geth Goliath. And some of Jacks and Liaras TK feats to scale as Shepard was as strong as stated.
Yes your right Shep can almost solo with all his abilities and powerful Hypersonic anti tank weapons.
@kaijuking: @merulezall: in TP we have Indoctrination and Moridin feats. Moridin litteraly kills you by overloading your senses and birsting vessels in your brain. Shep resisted. The Prothean Beacon kill any normal human with brain damage. Shepard took it. Reaper Indoctrination speaks for itself. Shepard resisted it hard core.
TP feats.
I also say Liara has insane reaction time thanks to comics. Movie also shows insane reaction time of normal humans and James to scale.
As for TK feats Geth Goliath. And some of Jacks and Liaras TK feats to scale as Shepard was as strong as stated.
Yes your right Shep can almost solo with all his abilities and powerful Hypersonic anti tank weapons.
I forgot about the Morinth feats, but Indoctrination is impressive, but I don't think its super impressive in the fact that it usually takes days, weeks, and even months to get someone to become a reaper's slave. I think that's more of an impressive feat on the reaper's side due to the fact that they don't even have to be alive to indoctrinate someone as well. I think the Beacon is prolly the better feat considering its instant unlike the Reaper indoc.
However the rest is fine though, but how good is canon vader's TP. I don't think it matters though since hes unlikely to apply it to someone in a fight right?
This is true, but even shepard has decent ones as well considering he fought Kai Leng and Kai Leng blitzed and killed Turins easily in the novels. Plus Shepard has excellent aim dodge and possibly sees people move in slow motion as well. Although from what I've seen in the past Vader seems to have the better reflexes thanks to the force. I could be wrong on this part though.
That's what I had in mind, he just has a lot of scaling though more than him having actual feats. I swear Shepard needs his own set of novels from the ME universe, it'd really help though to showcase just how good he is.
Ok, I admit it has been years since I played ME 2 and 3. And my English wasn't good at the time. But I can't for the life of me imagine even a Reaper beating Vader, let alone Shepard.
What am I missing here? How do a bunch of street levelers stand a chance against SW god-tiers.
@eredin12: @somedud: Characters like Vader are more powerful than MCU Surtur or Hela so this team is getting stomped. Unless this team is > MCU Surtur.
@pedrolopesmateus: I saw feats for Shepard guys in a few threads in commented and yea they are fodders to the SW team, ofc Fizz and MErulezall, both notorious SW lowballers are backing them though.
Well, since Fizz said Alucard could beat Vader without TK, I thought this might be a mismatch, just wanted to make sure. If ME characters were just street level as I thought, then anyone from the SW team stomps horribly. I personally don't recall even Reapers being anywhere close to Vader.
Shepard vs Vader would be close, and the other Biotics users with the range advatage, and tech abilities, as well shields and armor would win out over pure lightsabers and force abilities.
Ok, what feats does Shepard have that makes him a match to Vader? And him having a range advantage, even if true, is irrelevant since they start 100 feet from it other and Vader's range is several kilometers. Vader also has shields and armor and I don't recall Shepard's being anywhere close to Vader's. That said, I don't remember ME very well so I'm ready to be proven wrong.
@pedrolopesmateus: I saw feats for Shepard guys in a few threads in commented and yea they are fodders to the SW team, ofc Fizz and MErulezall, both notorious SW lowballers are backing them though.
@eredin12: @somedud: Characters like Vader are more powerful than MCU Surtur or Hela so this team is getting stomped. Unless this team is > MCU Surtur.
TBF me and MErulez are not the only ones who think you SW debaters are wank fest happy with SW though.....
Agree to disagree. I feel Vader > Shepard yes, but the team with Vader, canon feats, get wreck fast as they are all <<<< Vader and its Vader vs whole team which edge the win IMO
@kaijuking: I agree Vader is far above his own team here, that said, how can any ME character on Shepard team withstand a force push fron the Sith Lord when Pre-ESB Luke (who Vader overpowered) shook and threatened to destroy a Imperial Star Destroyer from the inside with a single force push?
@kaijuking: I agree Vader is far above his own team here, that said, how can any ME character on Shepard team withstand a force push fron the Sith Lord when Pre-ESB Luke (who Vader overpowered) shook and threatened to destroy a Imperial Star Destroyer from the inside with a single force push?
Luke plot wise tapped his full potential that one time. Even then LUKE STILL ALMOST LOST A FIGHT VS A SINGLE STORMTROOPER BADASS! So that unguided one time tapping of incredible power amount to shit in a debate. Best feats of Force we seen in canon for Vader was shaking and failing to one shot a AT-AT piloted by Han and Leia.
Not sure why you try to even bring up Luke one time plot power that still failed to take out the normal human Stormtrooper badass that was kicking Lukes ass. Thats a terrible anti feat actually.
@pedrolopesmateus: I saw feats for Shepard guys in a few threads in commented and yea they are fodders to the SW team, ofc Fizz and MErulezall, both notorious SW lowballers are backing them though.
You know what's funny, is you're too cowardly to actually tag myself or Fizz in this case. I even called you out for a CaV and yet you didn't even bother to respond. @kaijuking nor myself lowball SW. We just don't buy that garbage of an argument that is constantly posted and reposted with the same flawed logic in order to justify SW. It's simple Jedi are glass cannons and will always be glass cannons. In this thread Shepard has tactical nukes that he can consistently spam mixed with various biotic powers that will disrupt team 2 without much of an issue...
Let's recap
Kylo Ren gets hit with a wookie bow caster and suffers some decent damage. Granted its actually impressive considering FO Stormies are sent flying, but honestly its not hitting harder than even the standard M-8 Avenger rifle.
General G is THEE biggest jobber in the west. Jobbed to gungans out of all species...
Vader is impressive, but is prolly the only factor that isn't considered fodder at this point.
Grand Inquis lost to an inexperienced jedi lawl.
None of them outside of vader have dealt with cloaked foes before, none of them outside of possible Vader wank are tanking a direct tact nuke to the face, and none of them are dodging hypersonic rounds right to the dome and living out side of again... possibly vader thanks to his armor.
The point is, unlike that Cal vs Shepard argument. Shepard is composite with all weapons. Meaning he pulls out a nuke and just keeps dumping load after load all while invisible all while moving all while only vader sensing it. However with everyone else here to keep vader busy as Shepard one shots. It's a no brainer. We don't lowball Star Wars, you just lowball Mass Effect because you can't stand seeing your favorite sci fi setting losing to anyone else.
As for the argument in the other thread. As I said CV hasn't fixed its image issue, so I'm getting really tired of having to upload and deal with CV's problem on that aspect. I even dropped out of a tourny due to this issue. That is why I offered Nova from SC since you seemed so confident in stating Obi wan can solo and most of her feats are via text not images; she has three comics though, but I can just quote the images or if I must post some here and or there. Overall I've argued for SW in fact I argued against someone for a few pages long along with various other characters. I'm just not buying that garbage argument you throw up ever time due to well... common sense and actual feats not cherry picked high ends.
@pedrolopesmateus: I saw feats for Shepard guys in a few threads in commented and yea they are fodders to the SW team, ofc Fizz and MErulezall, both notorious SW lowballers are backing them though.
@eredin12: @somedud: Characters like Vader are more powerful than MCU Surtur or Hela so this team is getting stomped. Unless this team is > MCU Surtur.
TBF me and MErulez are not the only ones who think you SW debaters are wank fest happy with SW though.....
Agree to disagree. I feel Vader > Shepard yes, but the team with Vader, canon feats, get wreck fast as they are all <<<< Vader and its Vader vs whole team which edge the win IMO
Vader isn't above composite Shepard with composite biotics with composite weapons imo. This is Canon vader after all and allthough he has superior raw force powers, he's not tanking M-920 Cain over and over again.
Shepard vs Vader would be close, and the other Biotics users with the range advatage, and tech abilities, as well shields and armor would win out over pure lightsabers and force abilities.
Ok, what feats does Shepard have that makes him a match to Vader? And him having a range advantage, even if true, is irrelevant since they start 100 feet from it other and Vader's range is several kilometers. Vader also has shields and armor and I don't recall Shepard's being anywhere close to Vader's. That said, I don't remember ME very well so I'm ready to be proven wrong.
Shepard has various tools and biotics to allow him to keep his distance and nuke vader from afar. I'm not seeing vader tank several tactical nukes and living. I'm not seeing vader being able to do much to a Shepard whos constantly on the move and constantly harassing from afar.
@kaijuking: I agree Vader is far above his own team here, that said, how can any ME character on Shepard team withstand a force push fron the Sith Lord when Pre-ESB Luke (who Vader overpowered) shook and threatened to destroy a Imperial Star Destroyer from the inside with a single force push?
Best feats of Force we seen in canon for Vader was shaking and failing to one shot a AT-AT piloted by Han and Leia.
@eredin12 Can you confirm this? How durable is the AT-AT that makes Vader crushing it more impressive than even fodderizing mountain level Kanan?
@kaijuking: I agree Vader is far above his own team here, that said, how can any ME character on Shepard team withstand a force push fron the Sith Lord when Pre-ESB Luke (who Vader overpowered) shook and threatened to destroy a Imperial Star Destroyer from the inside with a single force push?
Best feats of Force we seen in canon for Vader was shaking and failing to one shot a AT-AT piloted by Han and Leia.
@eredin12 Can you confirm this? How durable is the AT-AT that makes Vader crushing it more impressive than even fodderizing mountain level Kanan?
As seen Vader using all his power was barely shacking apart the AT-AT and gave han plenty of time to fire on him which threw Vader completely off.
So dont give me this silliness of Luke and Vader can shake Star Destroyers willy nilly in a fight. Its full on plot device "tapping potential" they need for that.
@eredin12: Its funny how so many debunk your nonsensical bullshit though in every SW vs whoever is out of their league thread though. You cant provide feats of anything, just wild headcanon scaling and exaggeration of out of context quotes,
@eredin12: Its funny how so many debunk your nonsensical bullshit though in every SW vs whoever is out of their league thread though.
I've honestly never seen Eredin get "debunked" in a SW thread. Anyway, I asked about Shepard's capabilities, how fast is he? How durable and strong? Because from what I've seen and remember from ME 2 and 3 (haven't played 1, admittedly), he is no match for even Kanan, let alone Vader.
@eredin12 can you link me a thread with Shepard's feats?
Thanks, based on what @kaijuking himself posted on the thread above, I can't see how Shepard has a shot. I mean, he posted Shepard moving in "normal speed" while his targets moved in slow motion? How does that compare to Vader statuing MHS blasters? Or fodderizing Kanan, who moved as if time stopped for him in the "A New Dawn" novel? Shockwaves with force between 900 and 1085 Newtons? Please, Vader threw a huge boulder in the "Vader Down" arc with enough speed to take down a TIE fighter and those things have city + level durability. These arguments for Shepard made it even more clear to me that this is a massive mismatch and that the Commander has 0 chance against any Canon Sith Lord.
@eredin12: @kaijuking: "The fact your depending on a massive SW wanker like Eredin confirms your beyond reasoning as well"
I have disagreed with Eredin before, I asked him because he has read way more Canon novels than I have. That said, unlike you, he isn't making his arguments based on headcanon and calling all good feats outliers. Unless you agree with Eredin on AT-ATs being above city level, a noob Vader in his 2017 run alone had better feats than wrecking the AT-AT like destroying the Geonosian army with a lava tsunami.
@eredin12: ftr I agree with you on AT-ATs having durability over city level, I mentioned the feat above because Fiz may disagree because of some mental gymnastic.
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