Comicvine Hunger Games Scenario 2022 - Ambush: Beast & Alucard vs. The New Warriors (OPEN FOR VOTES)

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geekryan

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#1  Edited By geekryan
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Beast (Death4Bunnies) & Alucard (Buildhare)

VS.

The New Warriors: Insomniac Spider-Man (TheWatcherKing), Deathstroke (Maalik), and Prince of Orphans (Naronu)

Rules

  • Beast & Alucard ambush the New Warriors alliance at the Blood Altar located in Lazy Lagoon.
  • Beast has level 1 damage. Insomniac Spider-Man has level 2 damage. Deathstroke has level 3 damage. Prince of Orphans has level 3 damage.
  • Since this is an ambush, D4B and Buildhare will post first.
  • The New Warriors alliance can either argue escape or victory by death.
  • 2 posts each. 7 days to post.
  • Voting will be open to non-participants and the Gamemasters.

Battlefield

Teams start near the fountain in the middle of the town. Starting distance of 10 meters.

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@geekryan:

Given Alucard is arriving from loot lake would he be on the other side of the team from Beast, rather than right next to him?

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Xunt

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Disappointing.

None of the members of The New Warriors are team members of The New Warriors. Speedball would've been cool.

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@geekryan:

Given Alucard is arriving from loot lake would he be on the other side of the team from Beast, rather than right next to him?

Yes

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GearSecond619

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@xunt: Vote that they all die for this offense

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@geekryan said:
@buildhare said:

@geekryan:

Given Alucard is arriving from loot lake would he be on the other side of the team from Beast, rather than right next to him?

Yes

Same 10 meter distance or no?

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geekryan

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@geekryan said:
@buildhare said:

@geekryan:

Given Alucard is arriving from loot lake would he be on the other side of the team from Beast, rather than right next to him?

Yes

Same 10 meter distance or no?

Yes

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death4bunnies

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#9 death4bunnies  Online

@geekryan said:
@thewatcherking said:
@geekryan said:
@buildhare said:

@geekryan:

Given Alucard is arriving from loot lake would he be on the other side of the team from Beast, rather than right next to him?

Yes

Same 10 meter distance or no?

Yes

Wait why is it a 10 meter distance? Can I not argue that I jump out after the spring razor trap has sprung?

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TheWatcherKing

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geekryan

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@geekryan said:
@thewatcherking said:
@geekryan said:
@buildhare said:

@geekryan:

Given Alucard is arriving from loot lake would he be on the other side of the team from Beast, rather than right next to him?

Yes

Same 10 meter distance or no?

Yes

Wait why is it a 10 meter distance? Can I not argue that I jump out after the spring razor trap has sprung?

10 meter starting distance is the default for all battles, ambush or not. You can argue that you leap right away at the 10 meter distance.

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#12  Edited By death4bunnies  Online
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--------

Prelude:

Beast has gained 10 spring razor traps from the cornucopia, and a matter transmutation ray from patrons.

While the other team was running amok, getting burnt by that devilish fog, trying and failing to fly over the fog, and ultimately winning a hard fought battle with Vertigo and the Verdugos; Beast was setting traps and prepping the area behind the scenes with DMs to mods.

No Caption Provided

As you can see Beast has been busy.

Here is a video of the basic traps he has set up and turned to Adamantium along with the spring razors.

He waits in cover near the alter.

Both Alacard and Beast had plans to take advantage of the injured at lazy.. as they scout their prey they notice eachother..

The vampire spots the beast, and tho he’s seen many night creatures in his travels, this one had a intelligence behind its eyes.. Alacard recognizes the human within.

The mutant spots the swordsman, and tho he’s seen many warriors with blades and swords, this one had something feral behind his eyes… Hank recognizes the beast within.

With a nod they set their sights back to the wounded warriors.

------

Quick run down of Beasts abilities.

.

No Caption Provided

This is my first role playing tournament, and ive been known to be long winded so I will try to keep it relatively short.

Beast is a mutant who has gone through many physical transformations, first looking relatively human with large feat and muscles, then Beast messed with his mutation and became more beastly, he has been through a few mutations turning into a cat like form for a while before settling as a large gorilla like blue beast.

His agility has been a defining characteristic since day one.

He has tons of showing in the danger room training with all matter of traps and obstacles. 1,2,

He has navigated a mine field that took out most the avengers.1

In a woodland setting he avoided traps set by Kraven the Hunter, and eventually bested him in CqC.

I think agility and Beasts showings against these kinds of traps will be a huge factor because Beast has prepped the field with razor mines, spike traps, rolling spike log traps etc.... this fight is basically taking place in a obstacle course that Beast has spent the last couple moves building.

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Now I dont know how deep I need to go on speed and strength and stuff, but Beast is no joke in a fight without prep, he has fought Wolverine a few times pretty evenly.

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Here is a link to full fight.

In terms of damage output, Beast has claws and teeth I dont think anyone on the team can withstand.,,he bit and ripped apart Danger the sentient danger room.

Defensively, he can take pretty good hits from people like..... Atlas, Atuma, Danger and ofc Sentinels.

And hes fast enough to not get tagged easily, you saw Wolverine comment on his speed and how hard it is to hit him, he also also caught missiles1,2,3,4 and dodged bullet a lot 1,2,3,4 and can create dynamic after images to gambit...and he often attacks at blur speeds.

Once again, this is my first role playing tournament, I see we are supposed to keep our posts relatively short, but im definitely willing to expand on this.

------

Fight.

First thing the injured warriors must do is survive the 3 Adamantium spring razors they just triggered.

Then a fight begins where Beast has prepped the battle field with Adamantium traps and weakened branches that he has mapped out in his mind....basically a Adamantium obstacle course with Beast attacking during the most opportune moments and forcing the battle into his traps.

Problems I foresee for the new warriors are.

1. They are injured...badly.

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Deathstroke and Prince of Orphans have level 3 damage.... they basically have broken bones, and stab wounds, injuries that definitely are very severe...I don't know how either will avoid the initial 3 adimantuim spring razors.

2. Insomniac Spiderman is kinda their weakest character, and their only hope. He already has level 2 damage, so hes doing a bit better then the others, but with sprains and gashes he's not at near 100% and im not sure he can avoid the initial spring razors either; let alone compete with Beast in a trap prepped environment.

3. Beast has level 1 damage, some bruising... but Alacard is fresh and dangerous.. my teammate will post next and show you how dangerous.

4. Still the first thing the team must deal with is the 3 Adamantium spring razor traps that set the fight off.

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@xunt said:

Disappointing.

None of the members of The New Warriors are team members of The New Warriors. Speedball would've been cool.

Speedball would've been way too op. Snowflake would've been better.

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Alucards Ambush

No Caption Provided

The Plan

Just builds off Beasts initial scheme and it's pretty simple;

  1. Alucard utilizes his mystery box item, a Bioshock Insect Swarm Plasmid, to disable Spider-Man.
  2. Assuming the already critically injured Deathstroke & PoO didn't instantly die trying to avoid traps Alucard accelerates the process.
  3. Seizing either the spear or the lightsaber, Alucard kills Spider-Man.

1. Bug on Bug Action

As Beasts traps are activated Alucard is going to sic these cute little critters on Peter;

Link to video if it doesn't work.

Loading Video...

...a deeply disruptive insect swarm. They're active for up to 10 seconds and during that time their victims are unable to do much more than scream and flail. As you can see in the clip above it's an AOE cloud that sticks on it's target rather than a conventional projectile to be aimed, meaning dodging isn't gonna work. Being tanky won't help either given it works just fine against bulletproof mechs too.

2. Double Kill

While the human spider is disabled Alucard is going to rush the PoO/DS duo. I've seen DS touted as possessing speed around "Tourney limits";

The most important factors here are the facts that slade has the speed and skill advantage over the verdugo's as-well as a weapon that can harm them. Deathstroke is at or near the limits of this tourney in terms of being able to casuallydeflect bullets after they were firedordodge themafter they were fired.

...and while reacting to bullets is decent it doesn't put him near the actual limit for that attribute;

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...as Alucard can truly move and operate at truly supersonic + speeds for sustained periods, not just react to the odd bullet here and there, something that can even be accomplished by regular humans depending on distance to the shooter. I feel like just that one gif should be enough evidence to prove he's clearly above Slade (and by extension PoO, who has just had a single bullet timing feat posted so far) in terms of speed given Alucard's moving fast enough to create shockwaves in his wake. While the mercenary may be able to react to a bullet, he'll be hard pressed to do so against one that is also a skilled fighter and can change course on a whim.

All of the above is assuming both fighters are coming into this on even ground though. In reality you need to prove Deathstroke can react and defend himself from a mini-speedster while;

  1. Being taken by surprise.
  2. Avoiding the traps lain by Beast.
  3. Being caught in a pincer movement from in front and behind (Beast to the front and Alucard to the back)
  4. Being critically injured. Level 3 injuries are defined as broken limbs/stab wounds, Slade is operating at a level of efficiency far beneath his peak so to even assume he'll avoid the traps, let alone a supersonic blitz from behind him, is a jump. Something that'll be difficult to do with a potentially broken leg.

Once Alucard does lay hands on Slade the fight is over. In addition to pushing the speed limits he also has Spider-Man tier strength;

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...here bullrushing his father through what is easily tens of meters of stone castle wall. Alucard is going to take the lightsaber from you in his quest for a sword and he's at the level of strength where even if Slade did have time to resist him Alucard can remove the unarmoured Mercs arm when he pulls on the hilt. More likely than going straight for the saber is Alucard going for a killshot either in his wolf form or at base;

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...by combining his aforementioned super sonic + bullrush and his abusive strength advantage to simply tear Slades head off (Night Creature RT here, but as a universal rule they are supernaturally strong/durable/fast) as he did to that Night Creature. After which Alucard should still have about 9 seconds to collect the saber.

I've been mainly focused on Deathstroke in this section because the only attributes that really matter in this ambush are speed and as of yet there's no indication PoO is even as fast as his teammate. Assuming he doesn't die in the initial trap surprise it'll be a 2 for 1 deal, Alucard can just as easily behead two severely wounded humans.

3. Godspeed Spider-Man

With his comrades deceased the best is left for last. If mopping up his weakened allies takes less than ten seconds this fight becomes simple as Alucard now armed with a lightsaber (or spear) will obviously just oneshot. Even with his spider sense in play he's never avoided that kind of attack while surrounded by something as distracting as a plasmid swarm. Assuming it does take that long we're still left with a battered Peter Parker (gashes, sprains) fighting a 2v1 in which he can't get hit once. While that proposition might be feasible for someone as agile as the Spider normally, here he's fighting someone I'd argue has a clear speed edge;

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...capable of basically teleporting through speed alone against Dracula himself. Even mook vampires are blur speed casually and Alucard had a clear cut advantage against someone far beyond that. The combination of Peter's own reflexes + Spider sense might keep him in it for a bit but he's going to get hit by Alucard solo when the Dhampir can perceive even supernatural Night Creatures as basically frozen;

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...with the assistance of Beast and potential additional injuries from traps landing the one saber strike it'll take should be trivial. When it comes to taking a hit I don't think Peter is beating this;

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...first Alucard endures a blow that cracks the very stone they stand on, then takes a strike that creates a sonic boom/shockwave dead on. The latter did stagger him but ultimately he was fine. Anything not related to blunt force he can simply heal. As an additional obstacle for you to overcome, he can also temporarily go intangible by transforming into a swarm of bats;

No Caption Provided

...as he conveniently does when ensnared by another web user. He can also outright fly. Though I think this fight will likely be decided more by how fast Alucard is than how much punishment he can endure.

TLDR; The already fatigued team getting surprised by the fresh one with traps and no time to react dies.

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#17  Edited By Xunt

@professorrespect: Would you say him as Penance would've fit the tier better since his powers are more limited?

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@xunt said:

@professorrespect: Would you say him as Penance would've fit the tier better since his powers are more limited?

Well yeah, but he's still got a lot of meme high-ends and whatnot that would've made him also unsuitable here.

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TAEP

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#20 owie  Moderator

@xunt said:

@professorrespect: Would you say him as Penance would've fit the tier better since his powers are more limited?

Well yeah, but he's still got a lot of meme high-ends and whatnot that would've made him also unsuitable here.

Maybe Hairball/Niels :)

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#21 owie  Moderator
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#22  Edited By death4bunnies  Online
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#23  Edited By Maalik

John Aman: The Prince of Orphans

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"Not a Ghost, Wendell -- an angel. The Angel of Death. John Aman is here -- The Prince of Orphans" - Orson Randall, The Iron Fist

Skill:

John Aman is foremost among the seven immortal weapons, a standing which is explicitly backed upover and over again. Of the immortal weapons every single one is relative to Danny Rand in skill, both H2H and chi manipulation. John's own unique style manifests itself as him being able to turn his entire body to mist becoming completely intangible. Crucially, he is not limited to making his entire body mist, but can instead pick and choose which parts of him are physical at any point. His fighting style (or at least the one that is permitted within the rules of this tournament) is pretty much exclusively limited to rushing down his opponents and pummeling them in melee. Now the rules on what is considered offensive intangibility have been clearly defined by the hosts of this scenario:

Attacking while intangible would be considered offensive intangibility, whether you are attacking with strikes, a weapon, or using phasing as an attack.

If over half of the body is intangible, then attacking would be considered offensive intangibility.

Now this wording is very clear, any sort of offensive movement while over half of the body is intangible is considered offensive intangibility. If less than half the body is intangible it's not considered offensive intangibility, and the Prince of Orphans can attack freely, whether with strikes or a weapon.

But John's mist isn't limited to just intangibility, he's used it to restrain and toss Ha-Dai warriors through walls oneshotting them. And these guys aren't your standard fodder ninjas either, in the same run they take hits from Shang-Chi and Cap. And are even able to capture Shang Chi despite Black Widow and Cap's efforts. I'll note here that Cap has infamously stomped Beast (one of our opponents in this very battle).

Now I'm sure you'll question how John's mist can possibly be a defensive boon when he's forced to keep over 50% of his body tangible in order to attack. But he's shown the ability to turn only certain parts of his body intangible in order to dodge the strikes of enemies. With this defense it'll be completely impossible for his opponents, who lack any form of AoE attacks to take advantage of his forced tangibility, to land any hits on him for the first 5 seconds of melee. More than sufficient time to easily dispatch of either opponent.

But let's step away from the mist and go through John's own H2H skill to prove that he's far far above his opponents in this match. For example, his mist form only acts as an equalizer when facing spirits and ghosts, granting him none of the intangible defenses he often relies on. And yet he fights 1 vs 10,000 highly trained ancient chinese soldiers and doesn't suffer a single hit. Most impressively he withstands a straight up attack of 1000 spears being thrust at him without being tagged. He also of course scales at the very least to the Immortal Weapons, but neither of his opponents here are particularly skilled combatants so avoiding 1000 spears in close proximity should be enough to show that they'll never tag him should they survive the first 5 seconds of intangibility.

And he can fly, so Alucard isn't safe even taking refuge in the sky.

Stats:

This section would have been much shorter if not for the ridiculous notion that John isn't at the very limits of the tournament in speed. I've posted this before but he's explicitly reacted to assault rifle fire and turned himself intangible while the bullets are in the air, cementing him at the Mach 3 reaction limit. Yet for our opponents, explicitly reacting to assault rifle fire isn't enough, so here are some feats from character John scales to:

  1. Danny Rand and Orson Randall dodge hundreds of arrows and bullets fired at close proximity without being tagged
  2. Danny KOs a gunman after he pulls the trigger but before the gun fires
  3. Danny catches a bullet fired point blank range before it can strike Brenda's head
  4. Danny punches an enemy fast enough to tag him over a dozen time before he can react

All of this to cement what? Being faster than a character whose only posted speed feat is going FTE to a featless monster (Even in his previous threat, the speed feat was going FTE to a different set of featless monsters)? You even cut out the only actual sonic boom during that fight [Start at 1:45]. Notice the explicit visual and audial cues compared to his later dashes. Even the supernatural night creatures in the respect thread you linked only have a single speed showing that was against Trevor Belmont. Someone who has shownrelativity to Alucard... And dodged attacksfrom Night Creatures... So your entire speed argument is built around a single sonic boom in a bullrush, and then some circular scaling. And you're using these feats to try and establish Alucard at Mach 3? When Trevor's best showings are arrow timing?

From what you've shown Alucard is supersonic, but nowhere near the level to compete with any of the New Warriors. Your dreams of a bullrush and oneshot on any of our characters are just that, dreams.

For durability, he's pretty much no-sold this explosion (although Fat Cobra was in the way) and has taken multiple hits from Orson Randall's Iron Fist. As to striking, he took down Davos in a couple blows, who was fine after his clash with Danny destroyed several floors of Rand Tower.

I'll also take this section to explain why the Level 3 Injuries John has suffered will do little to reduce his fighting efficiency. When the Immortal Weapons ventured to the 8th Mystical City they were captured and forced to fight constantly in the arena, being beat to the verge of death over and over again and still forced to fight. Fighting with injuries that would be considered Level 4 is nothing new to John and would do little to hamper his ability, especially as unlike the 8th city he can use his unique chi to become the green mist of death he is known for.

The Spear of Bashenga:

John's weapon is the Spear of Bashenga, a physical manifestation of the first Black Panther wielded by T'Challa. To start off the spear tip is solid vibranium, a good hit will undoubtedly punch right through any character in this tournament, which means even a single headshot will be an instant kill.

The spear can also be thrown, where it is empowered by the energy of Bashenga allowing it to pierce through and destroy a small submarine, and even strike Manifold (who is usually defended from all projectiles by his portals).

A Plasmid Sized Problem:

Now Alucard was given an Insectoid Swarm Plasmid from Bioshock. He received this from a mystery box. Now plasmids at their core are serums that inject modified stem cells directly into your bloodstream. When someone receives their first plasmid they're overwhelmed with intense pain and lose consciousness for a significant period of time. Why is this important? Because there is no time for Alucard to have injected the plasmid at any point previously in the hunger games, let's walk through his direct route from Advancement #1, to this ambush.

Advancement #1:

Alucard's eyes adjust to the blinding light as he spies a bunch of shit that really doesn't help and races to something he isn't sure is useless. - Post 37 Main Thread (M.T.)

I'll head to the lake. - Post 45 M.T.

Alucard begins by grabbing the mystery box and heading towards Loot Lake, clearly can't inject the plasmid here as the box hasn't even been opened yet.

Advancement #2:

Fodder Threat by Prof - Loot Lake

Prof will tag you on this thread with his post. You both make one counter post separately, then we open for votes.

One, both, or neither of you can die. - Post 122 M.T.

Alucard spends the entirety of Advancement #2 fighting off Del Lago at Loot Lake (Posts 142 and 149 if you need a recap).

Advancement #3:

This is the essential part, Alucard could have spent some time here, with the Del Lago no longer being a threat, to set up his plasmid properly. Instead he rushes directly towards Lazy Lagoon:

Just as quickly as the gargantuan monstrosity had emerged it vanished once more into the murky depths of Loot Lake. Alucard had found himself unable to slay the beast with nothing but his bare hands. "I need my sword". Before he could ponder more on his dilemma he heard pained cries from across the woodland. Pain was not new to him but this sounded as though the creature was being boiled alive in its very skin. Either drawn to rescue a potential ally or to eliminate wounded foes he made off in their direction.

TLDR: Alucard is heading towards the Lagoon/Fog wall and will look to join any battle as soon as he can make it there, ideally sneakily.

- Post 307 M.T.

Now Alucard clearly intends to use the plasmid in this ambush, to do so he would have had to inject himself with the serum on the way over. With no prior knowledge on the side effects of injecting a plasmid into his system. He'd arrive to the Lagoon barely conscious if he even arrives at all. He'd need explicit feats showing that he can stay conscious while his very DNA is being rewritten, otherwise he'll be in far worse of a state than any of the New Warriors.

No Caption Provided

Setting the Table

First off, I want to establish the damage Spider-Man has coming into this

Insomniac Spider-Man has level 2 damage.

What this means is

Level 2 - Your character has moderate injuries, like gashes, sprains, etc.

This won't hinder Spider-Man as much as you're hoping it will. Spider-Man has went through the final part of his game with 14 broken bones(in fact it was described as his spine being destroyed and ribs ”poking into things) and still ran a gauntlet of characters, some of whom can give Peter a run for his money when at his best and always outnumbered.

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To break down what he went through

  • He went on to solo both Vulture/Electro in aerial combat(both of whom are obviously in their element there and faster via flight).
  • Solo'd Rhino/Scorpion while recovering from being poisoned(confirmed to be extremely lethal), keep in mind Rhino is stronger than Spider-Man and is someone that has beaten Peter before.
  • Went on to solo armies of demons, dealt with Mr. Negative construct summons, and still beat Mr. Negative at his full power when he could give an uninjured Spider-Man a fight. Keep in mind Mr. Negative was at some points using his telepathy meaning Peter was fighting him off on both the physical and mental plane, despite being pushed physically and mentally by the situation he was in.
  • Had to in between fighting the the above sinister six at moments I described had to deal with hordes of super powered escapees from the Raft, as well as heavily armored Sable agents.
  • And then went on to win against Doc Ock admittedly with a suit to help him in his injured state. And wasn't slowed down in his mission when stabbed doc ock

All in all, Spider-Man's endurance is amazing and cleared through a lot despite working with something between Lvls 3/4 worth of damage, having back to back fights where he's outnumbered and sometimes outmatched(as far as physicality goes) and still pulled through.

As for our adversaries, I'm not making any claims about how it would effect him but in beast's case he is dealing with

Beast has level 1 damage.

From the Fog threat, and my allies will go into detail about why they're situation won't stop us from winning here.

He waits in cover near the alter.

Both Alacard and Beast had plans to take advantage of the injured at lazy.. as they scout their prey they notice eachother..

The vampire spots the beast, and tho he’s seen many night creatures in his travels, this one had a intelligence behind its eyes.. Alacard recognizes the human within.

The mutant spots the swordsman, and tho he’s seen many warriors with blades and swords, this one had something feral behind his eyes… Hank recognizes the beast within.

With a nod they set their sights back to the wounded warriors.

It should be noted that this singular bit of RP is the extent of your interactions. You guys don't have any knowledge on each other not in terms of ability or fighting style, and there won't be any sort of trust even if you both decide to team cause of a seemingly easy fight. I want to contrast that with the New Warriors who have in back to back conflict and are once again fighting for their lives together and are seasoned combatants. My point is Spider-Man/Deathstroke/Prince of Orphans are familiar with one another, knowing how the others fight and have helped each other before. In terms of coordination and knowledge we have the advantage which can not be underemphasized in a death games scenario. It's more like Beast and Alucard are fighting for themselves against a team of 3 rather than a unified team against Spider-Man, Slade, PoO.

And to finish setting things up for the fight, Spider-Man will sense the second he and his teammates will be walking into a trap(like your booby traps) and give a heads up so there's no catching us off guard and trying to run away while we avoid the attack. Even if they were set off I'm sure I could avoid it, dozens of shots midair from multiple shooters were being avoided by Spider-Man casually at the beginning of the game. So even if there's some traps with projectiles I shouldn't have an issue avoiding it

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And considering the distance between us is Alucard 10m from us on one side, and beast 10m on the other you're 20m from your "ally" who is likely more intent on trying to kill than saving you. Being in a situation where all three of us are focused on you for a bit isn't favorable for you.

Beast

I think agility and Beasts showings against these kinds of traps will be a huge factor because Beast has prepped the field with razor mines, spike traps, rolling spike log traps etc.... this fight is basically taking place in a obstacle course that Beast has spent the last couple moves building.

And Spider-Man can more than match your agility(1,2,3), and has the advantage of Spider-Man meaning he can be avoiding traps before they’re set off. And he would’ve been fast enough to react anyway given he’s solidly at the limits of speed.

In terms of damage output, Beast has claws and teeth I dont think anyone on the team can withstand.

I do have shields to help if it ever comes down to it, though Beast is in character and wouldn’t likely jump straight to using his claws

Defensively, he can take pretty good hits from people like.....Atlas,Atuma,Dangerand ofcSentinels.

Some of this scaling would put you over limits… in regards to the last one he needed to save himself with his agility. Can you give quantifiable showings for his durability?

he also dodged bullet a lot1,2,3,4

Those are three scans of avoiding bullets, one of them is the same scan twice and I don’t think a single one of them is bullet timing.

createdynamic after images to gambit...and he often attacks at blur speeds.

This is clearly a case where the afterimages is just to show motion, not because the character can’t properly be perceived. As for blur speeds Spider-Man is FTE to people.

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First thing the injured warriors must do is survive the 3 Adamantium spring razors they just triggered.

Then a fight begins where Beast has prepped the battle field with Adamantium traps and weakened branches that he has mapped out in his mind....basically a Adamantium obstacle course with Beast attacking during the most opportune moments and forcing the battle into his traps.

These simple traps wouldn’t be a problem for me, even if you could prove they would move at the speed limits I could avoid it and would again know about it. And this isn’t a tourney where no friendly fire is a thing, you could easily end up killing Alucard with these adamantium traps and you already quoted the extent of your coordination and it wasn’t a single word exchanged between you two. Meaning he has no idea about these traps going in, so he’s in a situation where he has to take on three characters while also avoiding traps he didn’t know or was told about. All he would know is that you’re the reason for it, and he really doesn’t need to get distracted in this fight.

And if you ever up try to attack the team you’ll get ganged up on, you won’t catch me off guard and the rest of my team has notable senses as well.

Insomniac Spiderman is kinda their weakest character, and their only hope. He already has level 2 damage, so hes doing a bit better then the others, but with sprains and gashes he's not at near 100% and im not sure he can avoid the initial spring razors either; let alone compete with Beast in a trap prepped environment.

I disagree with nearly every word, not only can he fight in far worse conditions against people who can fight him at his best, he’s not the weakest not that it matters as I think he’s more than a match for Beast.

Still the first thing the team must deal with is the 3 Adamantium spring razor traps that set the fight off.

You would have to set it off because we won’t end up stepping on anything to set it off, and from there my spider sense would alert me to you trying and you won’t get a chance to be hiding setting off traps.

Like miles’ spider sense was set off just when guys are preparing to fire at him, you about to set off a trap is something I would be notified about would easily spot you (you’re 10m to the left of us) which would blow your whole plan.

Alucard

Alucard utilizes his mystery box item, a Bioshock Insect Swarm Plasmid, to disable Spider-Man.

Distract Spider-Man while you try to deal with my teammates? Let’s see if this works for you.

a deeply disruptiveinsect swarm. They're active for up to 10 seconds and during that time their victims are unable to do much more than scream and flail. As you can see in the clip above it's an AOE cloud that sticks on it's target rather than a conventional projectile to be aimed, meaning dodging isn't gonna work.

I wouldn’t see them tagging Spider-Man in 10 seconds, not that I don’t have options. Like webbing up the insects, and if you think that doesn’t sound plausible……

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….. Spider-Man has done just that against another swarm of bees. So this distraction would’ve been better attempted against some other lesser opponent.

While the human spider is disabled Alucard is going to rush the PoO/DS duo

Except he wouldn't be, bees would instantly be dealt with.

Once Alucard does lay hands on Slade the fight is over. In addition to pushing the speed limits he also has Spider-Man tier strength;

Idk about pushing the speed limits, but I’m more interested in strength. Being as strong as 616(assuming that’s the spider you mean, if you mean ISM then okay) would be admitting you’re over limits. Thankfully for you I don’t think this feat is as good as you think it is. Like as visually impressive it it looks……

here bullrushing his father through what is easily tens of meters of stone castle wall.

....bullrushing someone continually with wall busting force and punching someone sending them flying through all of that are vastly different things. One would call for way more strength and be much more impressive, while the other looks strong but ultimately is just continually exerting the same amount of force over a period of time. And for the record I would say Spider-Man can tank this.

  1. A comparable or outright better feat would be taking being rammed through a smokestack just fine. And this was during his fight with Electro/Vulture, meaning he was not at his best as explained in my first section.
  2. Also Spider-Man has took blasts from electro which are shown to be powerful
  3. More of the same.

If you want to assert being as strong as 616 though be my guest.

If mopping up his weakened allies takes less than ten seconds this fight becomes simple as Alucard now armed with a lightsaber (or spear) will obviously justoneshot

I do still have BannerTech shields, which would let me survive/no sell the spear and could use it for myself.

  1. Withstands attacks from Juggernaut
  2. Takes being slammed by Red Hulk
  3. Can activate fast enough to stop bullets

Though Spider-Man is also much much stronger and could disarm Alucard if it ever came down to it

Even with his spider sense in play he's never avoided that kind of attack while surrounded by something as distracting as a plasmid swarm. Assuming it does take that long we're still left with a battered Peter Parker (gashes, sprains) fighting a 2v1 in which he can't get hit once.

Killer bees would be dealt with instantly, and thus your whole “kill my allies in 10 seconds while Spider-Man can’t interfere” plan is foiled. You have to deal with Spider-Man who would be more than capable of interrupting your blitz, if you could blitz at all.

While that proposition might be feasible for someone as agile as the Spider normally, here he's fighting someone I'd argue has a clear speed edge;

I disagree.

The combination of Peter's own reflexes + Spider sense might keep him in it for a bit but he's going to get hit by Alucard solo when the Dhampir can perceive even supernatural Night Creatures as basically frozen;

Spider-Man has shown that RPGs and superhumans from the raft would be moving in slow motion to him.

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And even if he takes a hit so what? He’s taken worse, in worse condition. He’s going to tank it.

with the assistance of Beast and potential additional injuries from traps landing the one saber strike it'll take should be trivial.

There won’t be additional injuries cause there’s no proof the traps will be hard to avoid for someone that dodged dozens of supersonic projectiles from multiple sides in midair(much harder to maneuver) has precognition to warn him about your threat. He also has tons of experience with being outnumbered, and you guys aren’t very experienced as a unit.

Not to mention this 2v1 is stemming from the belief that you can take out my teammates in 10 seconds which won’t ever happen, not only are you underestimating them but also Spider-Man cause your bee trap won’t buy you a single second.

first Alucard endures a blow that cracks the very stone they stand on, then takes a strike that creates a sonic boom/shockwave dead on. The latter did stagger him but ultimately he was fine.

I don’t think that’s better than Shocker’s punching Spider-Man through a bank safe, and through a pillar. Spider-Man not only shrugged this off but immediately made a joke about it, and shocker is a relatively low tier boss outright being scared of the demons.

And Spider-Man has shown he can stop punches from Rhino(with both hands) who is the physically strongest of the S6.

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Spider-Man shouldn’t have an issue hurting Alucard at all.

Anything not related to blunt force he can simplyheal.

Considering Spider-Man has webs and stats it’s all incap or blunt force for the most part so this is not going to matter.

As an additional obstacle for you to overcome, he can also temporarily go intangible by transforming into a swarm of bats;

That’s not really intangible, and would this even counter webs if I just shown a swarm of bees(something smaller than bats) can get incapped?

He can also outrightfly.

Spider-Man has dealt with multiple opponents at once that can fly.

Deathstroke

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About the injuries

My opponents seem to have the idea that Slade is explicitly dealing with broken bones here that will impede his speed. Actually, Slade's injuries stem from the previous battle with Vertigo and the verdugos. They were noted to explicitly have slashing type attacks here

Because of this, the Verdugo hands, feet and tail are also capable of dealing solid damage given they are made of the same material as the carapace, allowing the Verdugo to casually slice through concrete (4:52 to 4:56) as well as do the same with its tail (6:15) and does a ton of damage if it hits Leon, doing more than Del Lago (who, keep in mind, was a over 60 foot mutated fish) and can behead him outright at low health with a simple claw slash.

So while our injuries are level 3

  • Level 3 - Your character has severe injuries, like broken limbs, stab wounds, etc.

I emphasize they're stab and slash wound type injuries, not broken bones. Meaning that Slade's speed isn't going to be impacted that much from his injuries. Keep in mind even slade who'd just been shot in the leg was still agile and fast enough to evade close range machine gun fire.

Beast and his traps

Firstly I'll address the ludicrous notion that Slade would fall for traps set by beast. Watcher already covered the fact that his spider-sense would effectively counter these traps in the first place; allowing him to notify us if it even got to that point. However, even if he couldn't, Slade isn't someone that would fall for simple traps like that anyway.

Slade is an ex-military colonel for one, so the idea that he would fall for vietnam-era war pitfall traps that you set is ridiculous based upon that alone. But more than that, Slade has always been regarded as an especially observant and fast thinking tactician on par or superior to that of batman himself (2: described by priest himself) For example, even with outside help on their side, Slade discerned a trap set by the teen titans based upon small minuscule details and defeated them quickly and effectively. Of all characters in this tournament, you are NOT getting the drop on slade, especially with traps.

Onto matters about agility, Slade is easily beast's peer or superior in this regard as-well.

Slade's shown the ability to literally weave through hails of machine gun fire close range without getting tagged once.

He's been able to react to and dodge ice beams from behind multiple times and counter acrobatically

In regards to agility and acrobatic ability Slade is as good as it gets. So since you believe that beast's agility will allow him to have some sort of advantage against these traps, Slade's own agility should similarly allow him to react and counter them should he have to. Not that he will because again, Slade's teammate has a spider-sense that would alert him and the rest of us to things like that.

In regards to your speed, I echo the same sentiment my teammate did in regards to the dubiousness of your ability to actually bullet time given your scans. Slade would be more than enough to handle you on his own given his superior speed and lightsaber that gives him superior range in CQC, and would one shot by chopping off limbs and vitals. In comparison, you're only armed with tooth and claw against an opponent who is either as fast or faster than you with the ability to one shot you. I trust you're smart enough to recognize Beast doesn't have a way to block attacks from a weapon that can cut right through him.

But your post indicates that you'll begin by trying to lure us into traps, waiting for the most opportune moment to strike and finish us off with alucard who jumps in first.

The issue there is that assuming we do chase you at all, we'd be alerted to your traps and cease following you immediately. Alucard will jump in and attack and he'll get bodied, whether or not you opt to help him. But if you do, just know that means your death as-well.

Alucard's failed ambush

Alucard's plan fails on so many levels it is actually laughable.

For one, his intention to incapacitate Spider-Man fail outright due to his webshooters taking out the bees. Two, he completely disregards prince of orphans here as even a threat which is a fatal mistake. Three, he implies Slade isn't close to the limits for speed in this tournament while simultaneously arguing that he can speedblitz and one shot.

So let's break this down.

My opponent asserts that he is so completely superior in speed that he can blitz one shot both DS and PoO in less than 10 seconds, specifically being able to kill deathstroke in a second. You would think that if he was capable of doing something like this, he'd have a plethora of impressive speed feats that truly showcase his speed. However the most impressive speed feat provided is him moving FTE to some featless monster.

You might be supersonic but that absolutely doesn't allow you to speed blitz someone like Deathstroke who has explicit superhuman reactions. Slade's reactions are easily at the limit of this tourney. For one, he was noted to explicitly be faster than the likes of Cassandra Cain.

The same cassandra cain who could practically see bullets in slow motion fired in close range.

The middle scan being probably one of the most famous examples of clear cut street level bullet dodging. And slade by her own admission, is FASTER than her.

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Oh and since you love FTE feats, Cain has her own feats of moving FTE to nameless goons. And while I usually detest scaling, Slade is explicitly stated to be faster than her.

Not to mention slade has his own feats of reacting to bullets point blank range. Also, I shouldn't have to spell this out, but the fact that you're a human sized object moving at sonic speeds rather than a bullet sized one makes you EASIER to hit. So this

While the mercenary may be able to react to a bullet, he'll be hard pressed to do so against one that is also a skilled fighter and can change course on a whim.

Is backwards and ludicrous at best. You might be faster than slade in regards to travel speed, but in terms of reactions I'll have zero issue. Your attempt at lowballing by reducing slade's speed to just "reacting to the odd bullet here and there" is both insulting and untrue.

In reality you need to prove Deathstroke can react and defend himself from a mini-speedster while;

Done. And I have many more feats to pull from if need be, but based upon your post I doubt I will. Casually reacting to bullets close range and being faster than people who can do the same OFTEN is more than enough to prove DS can react to a super sonic character.

  1. Being taken by surprise.

Yeah nobody is being taken by surprise here. We have a character with danger sense on our team and you start 10 meters away. Sadly we'll already know you're there before you attack.

  1. Avoiding the traps lain by Beast.

Quite easy to do given we're all as fast and agile as him while also having the aforementioned danger sense.

Your teammate states he's going to wait to swoop in after we get caught in a trap, but your whole plan is going to blow up. And Slade's injuries aren't going to inhibit his speed much especially given they aren't broken bones but slashes.

Once Alucard does lay hands on Slade the fight is over. In addition to pushing the speed limits he also has Spider-Man tier strength;

My teammate has already covered this but I'll quickly address it myself.

While you have a definite strength advantage, Slade is no stranger to wall-busting damage which is what you provided. Unarmored he could tank being punched through walls by powergirl and take blows to the face that punch through walls and destroy the ground around him.

note the gloves were disrupting his armor so he was taking the brunt of the attacks

Unfortunately for you however, Slade being alerted to your presence on top of his reaction speed + the 10 meter distance means that your initial bull-rush where you attempt to kill him and take the lightsaber in one blow will completely fail. Slade's speed and agility will allow him to dodge your attack leaving you open to immediate counter attack from spiderman and prince of orphans. So the likelihood of you landing a killing blow on slade dramatically decreases here even more.

Last thoughts

This should be a cakewalk for us. Your plan fails on many levels but first and foremost because attempting to ambush a team like this is foolish. Alucard could likely be taken on by any of us solo but he's going to die very fast here considering it starts out as a 3v1. Our opponent underestimated us greatly which will prove to be his undoing.

He attempts to make this a 1v2 by incapacitating spiderman but that fails due to webbing. Considering you state that you're going to attempt to attack spiderman first with the bees, whether or not that fails (It will, because you either can't use them or they get webbed), it alerts both me and Prince of your presence if Peter already didn't.

Then he believes somehow he's fast and strong enough to blitz and one shot deathstroke and prince which is laughably unfounded. But instead of even having that fight, he has to deal with Peter on top of the two of us. Meaning we're essentially jumping him unless beast intervenes, which would only ensure the death of both of you. Honestly, I implore beast to run away and leave Alucard to die. This is a very one-sided fight, regardless of injuries we're simply too fast and skilled to lose this.

Slade evades the initial rush after being alerted to the presence of traps or a threat by Peter. From there, all of us have ways to put Alucard down. Slade has a weapon that can easily slice and dice through large chunks of steel, Alucard isn't going to survive long against people who are easily his peer's in regards to speed while also possessing means to kill him. If beast intervenes instead of running away, he'll die here as-well.

Summarizing

  • You’re underestimating this team’s endurance and ability if you think we’re so weak that 2/3’s of the team will be taken out in 10 seconds, 1/3 having no counter to bugs, and your basic traps turned adamantium are taking us out.
  • I would argue Spider-Man has the means to take Alucard solo, and Beast’s trap attacks may end up hurting his “ally”.
  • Your plan has you guys fighting basically alone while Spider-Man is dealing with bugs, and only then coming to do a 2v1. Which means if your trap fails it’s an immediate 3v1 and because you guys didn’t even stop to say a simple hello(let alone go into detail about an actual strategy) Beast would only jump in once he sees Alucard is hopelessly outmatched and by then it’s too late as it’ll be his turn next.
  • I honestly don’t see any of us setting off the traps given our skills, experience and straight up precognition. They have to be done manually and we would still sense beast but if he doesn’t jump in and help immediately he’s only making this easier for us, but he may end up getting jumped depending on who takes who given it’s a 3v2(not that it’s required).
  • Absolute worst comes to worst I want to emphasize again how much experience Spider-Man has being outnumbered and still pulling through. The odds are really in his favor here
  • Thankfully, Peter isn't alone here and has two teammates that are fully capable as-well making this fight one-sided in our favor
  • The injuries are explicitly slash/stab type attacks, not likely broken bones so trying to characterize our injuries as such in order to prove we're slower than normal is wrong
  • Slade possesses a weapon which neither can effectively counter and can one shot both of them with a well placed blow
  • John is easily faster and more skilled than either opponent possessing the ability to turn intangible to avoid attacks as-well
  • The initial bullrush is explicitly being aimed at slade, however, we're alerted to the threat before it happens, meaning Slade will evade it; either way leaving Alucard open to a counter-attack from all three of us, so despite Slade's injuries he shouldn't take much further damage here especially given his reactions and acrobatic ability
  • Alucard dies here no matter what, and if beast were smart, he would run away instead of running towards his death
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#25  Edited By death4bunnies  Online
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Lets start with injuries.

Oh I take issue with this part of your post...Where you think you get to pick the injuries your characters get.....

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First off the vertigos did have raw strength.... so broken bones are a possibility.

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The idea that you get to pick the kind of damage your 2 characters with level 3 damage have seems sus, not only were you wrong about the Verdgo not being able to break bones but you act like if it was just cuts its at all minor.

There is nothing minor about level 3 damage that 2 of your characters have.

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Your trying to say it's jut cuts, and I clearly showed the Vertigos could deal broken bone damage... also even if it was 'just cuts and stabs' they are level 3 severe..

Lets look at the scan you gave for Slade dodging some bullets with a bullet leg wound.

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So he rolls 5 feet on the floor, doesnt seem agile at all anymore rolling on the floor like that...I dont think that proves he can get away from a omnidirectional adamantium spring razor when he haas much more severe injuries.

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And then the very next scan a human gets the jump on him, stating that he has Slade dead to rights becuase of the injury... That suggests Slade could not run or resist.

Orphan said he can fight at 100% with his injuries.(man I dont think these guys know what level 3 injuries are....anyway here is what Orphan said about his injures.

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I dont know if they just dont expect us to read the scans or what...but in the very scan Oraphan provided they are clear about letting the contestants heal and about not wanting them to die quick because thats less fun.

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So the way Orphan made it sound "being beat to the verge of death over and over again and still forced to fight" seems to leave out they were giving time to heal, explicitly said in the very scan he provided...If I was one of the voters, id wonder if Orphan tried to trick me.

In conclusion.... neither slade or orphan proved they are near 100% with injuries, in fact the very scans they provided proved this...Slades scan shown that even with a bullet wound he is severely hampered to the point where rolling on the ground is his best bet and had to be saved from a human with a pistol... Orphan showed no evidence outside a scan that literally said he had time to heal between matches that he tried to pass off as 'will do little to hamper my abilities'

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Traps.

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First thing the injured warriors showed to counter this is Spidey sense.... neat trick to get Spiderman away from the trap, but I dont see why it would save Slade or Orphan

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See im taking issue with the word "US" here... Spiderman senses danger and flips away he doesnt sense traps that are not tripped..... he flips away..fair enough but he has no time to warn the others...his voice is only mach 1...hed be wasting precious moments he doest have warning them....in fact Spider Sense has failed so many times that id ask the voters to consider Spiderman being hit by the initial 3 spring razors if he does try to call out a warning.

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Being Ex military isnt enough, and he can think as fast as he wants once traps start going off, with level 3 injuries hes not going to be able to rep his best feats...also the scan where he figures out the titans trap happened over minutes, he had time to notice details that were wrong, not the same as fighting beat on a trap premed environment.

Again, you are injured, severely... simply not capable of your best showings, while Beast has 3 initial spring razor traps and traps set about the forest.

He has full knowledge on where these traps are you do not, I think thats a pretty mighty advantage for beast and alarcard on top of your sever injuries.

Orphan didnt mention a counter for traps that takes into account that he still has level 3 injuries.

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Beast.

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Stated to be one of the worlds best brawlers, Beast is a match for anyone on team 2 even if they weren't wounded and surrounded by traps.

Speed. I showed 4 instances of Beast weaving between bullets and 4 of him catching missiles and Wolverine commenting that beast is hard to hit...one of the bullet reactions was double linked apologies.. Beast has lots of bullet dodging so here is 5 different instances (not shown in my first post) of Beast weaving through bullets 1. 2.3. 4. 5. The fifth one he threw a rock to intercept a bullet.

Agility.... Everyone on team wounded warriors claimed to have agility to match Beast, but I dont think they even came close to beating the feats I showed.

Here are the feats I showed in post 1.

He has tons of showing in the danger room training with all matter of traps and obstacles. 1,2,

He has navigated a mine field that took out most the avengers.1

In a woodland setting he avoided traps set by Kraven the Hunter, and eventually bested him in CqC.

These feats are specifically feats against traps, and the mine field took out Wasp in shrunken form, nothing the other team showed comes close...to add to that Beast beats Nightcrawler in a game they call.. obstacle corse chess.

AP. No one here argued they could tank Beasts claws they just claimed he might not use them...Beast its not someone who shys away from killing, in fact in a bunch of the comics ive been reading about Beast his morals are super suspect...Because no-one claimed they could tank the claws that ripped up Danger and his regular strikes are pretty good too...He broke Silver Samurai's helmet

Dura... I was asked for something more quantifiable than scaling. Here he is getting hit through a wall..and different versions of himself busting concrete with his face.

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Lets talk about people beast has fought that are quite frankly better than the injured warriors.

Deathstoke: Is a formidable opponent, but it think Spiral (a reoccurring X-man villain) is better.

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First off she has 6 arms and she can bullet time with all of them. ^Those shots are fired by Domino.

Here is beast getting the better of Spiral being neigh untouchable, he even says his middle name should be 'maneuverability' in the scan.

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Beast getting the better of a teleporting, 6 armed, bullet timing swordsman shows that Beast could best even a fresh Slade let alone one so severely injured, where beast has prepped the Battleground.

===

Orphan: Again cool character, I like his neat misty ability, however I dont think it would beyond Beast even if Orphan was near full health which he is not.

Id like to compare him against Nightcrawler.

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Teleports away from a point blank gunshot

So a pretty good comparison to Orphan, tho id think the interstellar competition is more impressive because its aa bunch of races of aliens.

Beast fought beat Nightcrawler with a sword in his back.

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Beast does all this with a sword sticking out of his back, and only calms down once its removed... as shown Nightcrawler is a incredibly skilled teleporter who can teleport before a point blank bullet can hit him, and Beast had him dead to rights.

==

Insomniac Spider-Man- Not quite his 616 counterpart especially when injured and with minimal gear.

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I could only find one instance Beast fought 616 Spider-Man, both were brainwashed and the fight was off panel...but they seem fairly comparable.

They have teamed up a bunch of times, and always seem pretty comparable.

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In this scan Spiderman uses Beast like a mace swinging him into a giant creature.

They are also pretty comparable in things like running, jumping, striking, dura....etc etc...Tho it should be noted that Spiderman has outperformed Beast on occasion in thier various teamups, like when when they were hit with clearly the same force but Spiderman recovered first.

Keep in mind in post one I showed Beast beating Kraven, and fighting on par with Wolverine; I think its fair to say that Beast and 616 Spiderman are pretty comparable stat wise with Spiderman having some advantages...........when both are at full health.

Insomniac Spider-Man is not at full health tho, and Beast has prepped the field.. I think the raw feats shown for Beast are plenty to show he a serious threat... but along with his prep and health advantage he also has fought with and fought beside a Spider dozens of times so he will understand the fighting style and tactics that Spidey will likely use, Insomniac Spider-Man has not met or fought a Beast.

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I see myself getting a bit long winded again so ill wrap this up.

The initial 3 adamantium Spring Razor traps seem like the are very likely to outright kill Deathstroke and Orphan, both are heavily damaged(level 3) and they didnt show feats to avoid omnidirectional adamantium shrapnel in any case.

Beast would be a great fight for any of the wounded warriors at full health, the fact that Deathstroke and Orphan have serious level 3 Damage make it near impossible for them to really hang with the Beast who can avoid the the 6 bullet timing swords from Spiral, and catch and best the uber fast and skilled Nightcrawler... and he has some heavy advantages against the injured Spider-Man including traps and knowledge.

Id remind everyone that the environment has been prepped with traps, from the 3 spring razors near the alter to 7 more spring razors set where Beast knows, spiked pitfalls and weakened branches.

I dont think the injured team has what it takes to win in this scenario, it would be decent battle maybe under different conditions, but the game is what the game is and I think the heavily injured team that walked into a trap prepped area is doomed....Ill let my partner Alacard quickly explain his place in the battle.

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#27  Edited By buildhare

Alucard's Ambush Cont.

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I appreciate some debaters rely solely on arrogant language and crippling overuse of words like laughable, ludicrous and ridiculous in order to build a lofty perch from which to piss down on the rest of us in disdain. However these debates aren't any fun to have and reading through what is essentially pompous monologuing about supposed superiority is even less so. With that in mind I'm going to isolate the arguments ostensibly made in bad faith to just this section before the post proper;

Items

On the Plasmid swarm;

Now Alucard clearly intends to use the plasmid in this ambush, to do so he would have had to inject himself with the serum on the way over. With no prior knowledge on the side effects of injecting a plasmid into his system. He'd arrive to the Lagoon barely conscious if he even arrives at all. He'd need explicit feats showing that he can stay conscious while his very DNA is being rewritten, otherwise he'll be in far worse of a state than any of the New Warriors.

...which is based fundamentally on a misrepresentation of both the rules and general spirit of the game. I have two points here;

  1. You quoted a long list of my actions in order to frame it as though I hadn't properly prepared to use my item. This is despite the fact you are currently being ambushed in exactly a scenario where your foes organized the attack without posting in the main thread, but rather through messages to the Gamemasters about actions undertaken without broadcasting them to the greater games. Additionally the games have been running for two days in universe at this point, obviously Alucard has inspected his item.
  2. Assumedly all combatants are at least somewhat able to use the gear they're given or pick up. This is not to say that Alucard would receive expert level marksmanship were he to pick up a gun, but we can at least reason he would not instantly remove his own head out of confusion. This is outwardly the same argument undertaken against the Power Pack and is just as centred on metagaming over common sense.

...if you insist on this line of debate I would ask you to then defend Deathstrokes use of a lightsaber, a tool that's infamously difficult for non-force sensitives to use both with both the gyroscopic effect of the blade from legends;

Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield, and it was extremely difficult—and dangerous—for the untrained to attempt using. However, in the hands of an expert of the Force, the lightsaber was a weapon to be greatly respected and feared.

...and now featured in canon last week in The Mandalorian;

  1. ...where even after having used it several times a skilled Mandalorian can't deal with ever changing properties of the (in theory) weightless blade, to the extent his moves are sluggish and he can barely lift it.
  2. Or in a freezer where the exact opposite happens, Din overcompensates and both overswings on his first target then again to maim himself.

...and that's a character who knows what lightsabers are and has visibly practiced, yet is still barely able to wield it without crippling himself let alone fight effectively with it. Deathstroke has no such luxury and by your own logic without posting in the thread about him training day and night with it you've confirmed he hasn't and as such is at major risk of just killing himself on the first swing. Or we could just recognize that functionally it was always intended to just be basically a laser sword in this tournament and plasmids didn't require DNA hocus pocus (when some participants aren't even organic) to work. Up to you.

Teamwork

It should be noted that this singular bit of RP is the extent of your interactions. You guys don't have any knowledge on each other not in terms of ability or fighting style, and there won't be any sort of trust even if you both decide to team cause of a seemingly easy fight.

A mutual understanding has been made by Beast and Alucard, we don't need to have extensive training around fighting styles for this to work given the plan is dead simple. When the enemy triggers the traps, attack. There's no complexity to it and with neither of us having AoE there's no chance we're getting in each others way.

I want to contrast that with the New Warriors who have in back to back conflict and are once again fighting for their lives together and are seasoned combatants. My point is Spider-Man/Deathstroke/Prince of Orphans are familiar with one another, knowing how the others fight and have helped each other before. In terms of coordination and knowledge we have the advantage which can not be underemphasized in a death games scenario.

You're right in that teamwork is an important attribute for the New Warriors but dead wrong in assuming you have a wealth of it. You've had two fights spanning a period of minutes, and this is going to allow you to function effectively as a team? Even more so it's going to override that your team chemistry is inherently at rock bottom given you have the ever optimistic and heroic Spider-Man paired with two indiscriminate killers and objective villains. For reference as to how this Spider-Man has gone historically in team ups with morally reprehensible characters;

...Otto leaving someone to die, even for the greater good, leads Peter to just lose his marbles and attack him. That two good guys like Beast and Alucard are going to have worse chemistry when your most powerful character is diametrically opposed to the methods of his teammates, is just incorrect.

Damage Levels

Throughout your post you've tried to minimize how much damage you've taken and although D4B has addressed it I'd like to touch on it as well;

Prince of Orphans

I'll also take this section to explain why the Level 3 Injuries John has suffered will do little to reduce his fighting efficiency.When the Immortal Weapons ventured to the 8th Mystical City they were captured and forced to fight constantly in the arena, being beat to the verge of death over and over again and still forced to fight.Fighting with injuries that would be considered Level 4 is nothing new to John and would do little to hamper his ability, especially as unlike the 8th city he can use his unique chi to become the green mist of death he is known for.

Nothing really to add here, you completely misrepresented what was happening on panel given it was confirmed they were given enough time to heal between fights. Even if that weren't true PoO is like the only fighter who looks completely rested;

Level 0 PoO here vs Actual Level 3 Cobra
Level 0 PoO here vs Actual Level 3 Cobra

...so as it stands you've provided no evidence to support the Prince being able to fight with notable injuries let alone multiple broken limbs/serious stab wounds.

Deathstroke

My opponents seem to have the idea that Slade is explicitly dealing with broken bones here that will impede his speed. Actually, Slade's injuries stem from the previous battle with Vertigo and the verdugos. They were noted to explicitly have slashing type attacks here

As D4B has already noted this is incorrect;

While it takes Leon 30 seconds or so to reach the end of this maintenance tunnel (3:16 to 3:46) Verudgo does it in only 5 (4:13 to 4:18) moving fast enough to dent a reinforced steel door before moving to the ceiling.

...they were clearly stated to have had metahuman strength and were easily capable of breaking limbs. As has also been covered you do not get to pick what injuries you have. As outlined in PoO's section Level 3 damage explicitly means Broken Limbs/Stab wounds. Not specifically one kind and certainly not the one you feel is less impactful. Your example of Deathstroke operating with level 3 injuries is also disingenuous for two reasons;

  1. It's just not a level 3 injury. A single low calibre wound to a non-vital area like the leg is not "severe injuries". This is going to be level 2 at best given that's described as gashes (notably not the same thing as cuts, a level 1 injury) and it's only a single wound.
  2. You state that he's dodging bullets, when all the hallmarks of what many would recognize as bullet timing are missing. "Evading machine gun fire" is not the same as dodging a shooters aim, which is obviously several tiers worse as a feat. Aim dodging is just as likely to be what's happening there without explicit evidence of the bullet being fried on panel then Deathstroke dodging. In general bullet timing is far rarer than people make out in comics but that's for the speed section.

Spider-Man

Had the least injuries so the arguments for him operating effectively were the least unreasonable but still;

All in all, Spider-Man's endurance is amazing and cleared through a lot despite working with something between Lvls 3/4 worth of damage, having back to back fights where he's outnumbered and sometimes outmatched(as far as physicality goes) and still pulled through.

In the main story I think Peter suffered level 3 injuries 4 times;

  • Twice vs Scorpion, the latter encounter only because of the resulting poison effect.
  • First beatdown from Ock. Didn't meet the listed criteria but he was in a poor state.
  • Second beatdown from Ock.

...under no circumstances did he run through most of what you listed back to back without time to recover. Obviously you or I would be in the ICU but hours of time between these major events if not days is ample time for someone with Spider-Mans healing to return to near normal.

This won't hinder Spider-Man as much as you're hoping it will. Spider-Man has went through the final part of his game with 14 broken bones(in fact it wasdescribedas his spine being destroyed and ribs ”poking into things) and still ran a gauntlet of characters, some of whom can give Peter a run for his money when athis bestand always outnumbered.

Broken bones are not the same as broken limbs. Breaking some ribs is clearly bad but Peter could still mostly endure that, he never came close to breaking a leg etc. I'd just outright dispute the spine thing hyperbole as if he actually had his spine destroyed he'd be paralysed or dead. In reality though Spider-Man's physical state matters the least by far here, our plan is not dependant on him being weakened.

Bee Careful

I wouldn’t see them tagging Spider-Man in 10 seconds,

Spider-Man, attacked at all sides, is probably going to prioritise the least lethal threat last even if his Spider-sense does manage to navigate all the danger in this ambush. Obviously that would be the purely disruptive Plasmids. Given Peter is only 10 meters away and he's getting jumped from multiple angles I doubt the swarm is failing to tag him. Even if they did having Peter flee for 10 seconds accomplishes exactly the same thing, which is to incapacitate or otherwise waste time, not kill.

not that I don’t have options. Like webbing up the insects, and if you think that doesn’t sound plausible……

….. Spider-Man has done just that against another swarm of bees.

This could feasibly work if they were a) ordinary bees and b) telegraphed in advance. I've shown you a Plasmid effecting something that can no sell gatling gun fire in Post #1, gnawing through webbing doesn't seem like an issue for that level of damage output. More importantly though that specific feat was performed against Swarm after multiple encounters and knowledge of what to expect. When Peters Spidey sense starts playing up here there's no way his first assumption is going to be shoot his uber specialized BeeBagWebTM directly behind him and instead Pete would much more likely opt to just run. Kinda like he did, you know, against literally the same guy;

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...and it'll work about as well.

Except he wouldn't be, bees would instantly be dealt with.

This Spider-Man has explicitly struggled with regular bee swarms in the past. In an ambush scenario, attacked from below, behind and in front he's going to deal with this the only way that could feasibly work (if they were just bees and not a living bioweapon) in the barely an instant he has to do so before he's surrounded? Doesn't seem super likely to me. Far more realistic is that either Peter tries to flee and is tagged or is just caught out entirely while dodging everything else going on. Obviously Spider-Man could come up with a solution given time but when all I'm asking for is mere moments it's beside the point.

PoOStroke

Prince of Orphans

Killing the injured duo is still focussed pretty much entirely on the fact they can't react to the initial ambush on top of everything else. Therefore while I acknowledge the Prince of Orphans is exceptionally skilled, it's all but entirely irrelevant in this context. The critical issue is his ability to first react to the traps and then to Alucard & Beast. I feel pretty confident saying his reaction feats are the weakest on his team as this;

This section would have been much shorter if not for the ridiculous notion that John isn't at the very limits of the tournament in speed. I've posted this before buthe's explicitly reacted to assault rifle fire and turned himself intangible while the bullets are in the air, cementing him at the Mach 3 reaction limit.

...doesn't prove what you think it does. Some assault rifle fire can move at those (Mach 3) speeds but there's nothing in that scan to suggest PoO can move even a fraction that fast. Consider a character that reacts to a Mach 3 projectile, lets say fired from 10 meters away, by moving their head an inch to the right. Are they capable of operating and moving at speeds three times the speed of sound?

No!

While they clearly had some awareness of the danger the distance they actually moved was far far less than the projectile did in the same timeframe. You can still infer some speed from that showing but it's blatantly obvious that the character did not move nearly as fast as the bullet. This is an essential thing to consider when you keep posting this scan to argue PoO is at the tourney limits; because he doesn't just move slower than the bullet, he doesn't move at all. All you can prove from this feat is that PoO was able to think in the span of time it took for those bullets to reach him, which is obviously considerably worse than if he had even managed to move an inch like that hypothetical character above.

As it currently stands all you've proven is that PoO can think but not move in the span of time it takes a bullet to cross a bridge. Against an essentially living one that can move all of his limbs at that speed as well as think it's clear he's vastly outmatched.

Yet for our opponents, explicitly reacting to assault rifle fire isn't enough, so here are some feats from character John scales to:

It is kind of amusing that you're so confident in his "at limit reactions" yet you immediately try to scale him to a character with half a century of high ends, but okay.

Danny Rand and Orson Randall dodge hundreds of arrows and bullets fired at close proximity without being tagged

Not a single part of this can be debated as bullet timing given we have no proof they weren't reacting to the marksmen rather than the bullets. A high level instance of aim dodging to be sure, but still aim dodging.

Danny KOs a gunman after he pulls the trigger but before the gun fires

Awesome feat, not bullet timing. Rand was already in motion prior to the trigger pull and at best he's outpacing the firing mechanism inside the gun, not the muzzle velocity of a bullet that was never fired.

Danny catches a bullet fired point blank range before it can strike Brenda's head

We see Danny's eye immediately before the gun is fired, the gun firing without context, the bullet stopped, then Danny's final position. You have no evidence to support him just standing there until after the gun is fired and as such can't prove he didn't make it to Brenda prior or as she pulled the trigger. Without the definitive proof of /1. Gun fires 2. The character moves/ it's not provably bullet timing at all.

Danny punches an enemy fast enough to tag him over a dozen time before he can react

Awesome feat and indicative of blur speed if we take it at face value. Given I already showed you mook vampires moving and fighting at those speeds (minimum) I think you know this doesn't cut the mustard.

From what you've shown Alucard is supersonic, but nowhere near the level to compete with any of the New Warriors. Your dreams of a bullrush and oneshot on any of our characters are just that, dreams.

I would love for you to show me Prince of Orphans breaking the sound barrier. Given you're arguing he's Mach 3 and he has far more feats than Alucards roughly 12 minutes of fighting this should be trivial. Shockwaves from moving past his opponents would also be appreciated! I'm being facetious but that's an incredibly bold claim with how limited your supporting evidence is. You singled out Trevor being an arrow timer;

. Even the supernatural night creatures in the respect thread you linked only havea single speed showing that was against Trevor Belmont. Someonewho has shownrelativity to Alucard...And dodged attacksfrom Night Creatures... So your entire speed argument is built around a single sonic boom in a bullrush, and then some circular scaling. And you're using these feats to try and establish Alucard at Mach 3?When Trevor's best showings are arrow timing?

As though fast characters cannot exist in settings without firearms? Trevor reacted to those arrows with absolute ease so it can't be near his limit anyway. Ultimately that's entirely irrelevant when Alucard is far, far beyond Trevor with regards to speed;

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...in a clip you conveniently forgot to include. This was in a fight where Alucard was just testing Belmont and only abused his speed twice, yet was still completely invisible to Trevor when he chose to do so. Belmont manages to predict it when Alucard uses the same trick twice but he doesn't keep up with him at all as his blade was already in position. Given there's other comparisons like the fact even (compared to Alucard, slow) Dracula blitzed Trevor I'm going to assume this claim was just an error.

So your entire speed argument is built around a single sonic boom in a bullrush, and then some circular scaling. And you're using these feats to try and establish Alucard at Mach 3?

I do believe he's considerably faster than just the speed of sound but no that's what I'm trying to establish here specifically. Just that your characters are obviously nowhere near that fast and aren't capable of doing anything like what Alucard did even in that one scene.

All of this to cement what? Being faster than a character whose only posted speed feat is going FTE to a featless monster (Even in his previous threat, the speed feat was going FTE to a different set of featless monsters)?You even cut out the only actual sonic boom during that fight[Start at 1:45]. Notice the explicit visual and audial cues compared to his later dashes.

Crossing hundreds of meters in an instant, appearing as a flash of crimson light, moving so fast the actual cut doesn't happen until a second after it's been done;

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...is more than enough to be obviously a tier beyond what PoO is capable of. There's no need to waffle on about creating sonic booms or shockwaves when your character is clearly incapable of even matching those preliminary elements of the feat. Deathstroke actually has some standing for being faster than a bullet so I'll highlight some of Alucard's better showings below but for just the injured Prince and his sole lacklustre feat that is enough. You brought up durability too;

For durability, he's pretty much no-soldthis explosion(although Fat Cobra was in the way)

For starters it'd help if you actually provided the scan of him no selling it rather than leaving us to take your word for it. Given his powerset without proof we may as well assume he turned to mist. Regardless this doesn't have a whole lot to do with blunt force trauma or being cut by adamantium so it's not overly helpful here. As I've shown in the sections centred on Spider-Man, Alucard is capable of tunnelling through castle walls without resistance so tearing your head off is an absolute non-issue if PoO is solid.

Now I'm sure you'll question how John's mist can possibly be a defensive boon when he's forced to keep over 50% of his body tangible in order to attack.But he's shown the ability to turn only certain parts of his body intangible in order to dodge the strikes of enemies. With this defense it'll be completely impossible for his opponents, who lack any form of AoE attacks to take advantage of his forced tangibility, to land any hits on him for the first 5 seconds of melee. More than sufficient time to easily dispatch of either opponent.

To make it really simple here are the scenarios;

  1. John fails to react to the trap, he dies.
  2. John reacts to the trap but keeps some of his body tangible to attack the person he can see (Beast), Alucard rips him apart from behind on the initial blitz, he dies.
  3. John reacts to the trap but goes entirely intangible. He's effectively BFR'd himself for 5 seconds and has created exactly the staggered 2v1 on Deathstroke we were looking for, running out of intangibility a full 5 seconds before Spider-Man can even begin to help, he dies.

If anything his desire to turn to mist makes our plan more potent as you're willingly dividing your forces. Cheers!

Deathstroke

I just want to start with this to set the tone here;

And while I usually detest scaling, Slade is explicitly stated to be faster than her.

This in a post where you have one speed feat that's actually Slade himself, despite Deathstroke having nearly half a century of his own feats to draw on. Suss. To start with Wilsons sole showing;

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...which I would agree is legitimate bullet timing. Given you're arguing this though;

Slade's reactions are easily at the limit of this tourney.

...this still clearly requires addressing. In the scan you presented Slade crouches in the time it takes a bullet to reach him. The gun is clearly a revolver and as such we're looking at muzzle velocities between about 240 m/s to above 400 m/s if we pretend its a hand cannon and not the old west gun it looks like. For reference the speed of sound is just below 350 m/s. To summarize the feat we see him dodge a bullet that's moving somewhere between two thirds the speed of sound or marginally above it, by crouching just under the distance the bullet travels. This is a bonafide instance of bullet timing but as not all bullets are created equal and even generous interpretations of this feat would only grant Slade Mach 1 reactions (and just reactions, because all he did was duck, not fight) it doesn't fit at all with the portrait you're trying to paint of a Mach 3 speedster.

Cassandra's showings are undoubtedly impressive but critically they're Cassandra's alone. A single instance of self doubt doesn't categorically prove her inferiority to Deathstroke (and it certainly sounds like self doubt given she makes out she's worse at absolutely everything) especially when he seems to lack feats even close to what she did there. It's even harder to take seriously when they've actually fought before and if anything Cass was winning, landing several hits and disarming Slade while dodging his attempts to shoot her.

I will address one feat though because even if we did believe Slade was able to recreate her otherwise superior feats her instance of moving FTE is still not on Alucard's level. In the same scan we see her moving as a blur we get this tidbit from an overweight mob boss;

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...confirming that the showing wasn't truly FTE as she was seen in action. At best we can infer blur level combat speed which as established is not impressive even among lower tier vampires. That's assuming it wasn't just a stylistic choice from the artist to present her as being unstoppable.

My opponent asserts that he is so completely superior in speed that he can blitz one shot both DS and PoO in less than 10 seconds, specifically being able to kill deathstroke in a second. You would think that if he was capable of doing something like this, he'd have a plethora of impressive speed feats that truly showcase his speed.

Once again you seem to be under the impression this is a fair fight where you need to be completely outclassed, rather than the flustercluck fish in a barrel situation you've got yourself stuck in. Given the already well explained external factors (Injury, Traps, Surprise) Alucard could be only as fast as Deathstroke and still pull off the ambush.

Is backwards and ludicrous at best. You might be faster than slade in regards to travel speed, but in terms of reactions I'll have zero issue. Your attempt at lowballing by reducing slade's speed to just "reacting to the odd bullet here and there" is both insulting and untrue.

Of the feats you've presented thus far in the games the vast majority are aim dodging. The only one that clearly meets the criteria for bullet timing is the one I broke down above and it's still obviously on the lower tier for that kind of feat. Given he's basically 1 from 6 for legitimate bullet timing feats you've presented for threats, I think "the odd bullet here and there" comment was generous if anything. If you're going to be shy about posting feats for you character I'll do it for you;

  1. Slade rushes an armoured jeep and somersaults onto it while avoiding getting shot. Given we don't see him react to a single bullet after it's been fired it's probably just aim dodging.
  2. Same thing again, this time with a lone gunman armed with a shotgun. Good time to point out that Slade flees rather than try to rush and blitz the guy head on, something he should've done easily if he was at tourney speed limits.
  3. The best of the three, Slade slashes three arrows out of the air from close range. The added flavour of completely outclassing Oliver is also nice.

...so looking at those three showings plus the one you gave in your post we are faced with a character who is capable of avoiding the aim of marksman with fancy acrobatics, reacting to something potentially moving at the speed of sound as well as casual arrow timing. Every last one of those attributes also apply to Trevor Belmont (Aim dodging, Speed of Sound, Arrow timing) a character definitively below your opponent here. I'd challenge anyone to try and imagine Slade in this scene;

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...wherein Alucard finally faces his father alone, cuts loose and is able to (temporarily) blitz the hell out of him. We see him break the sound barrier from a standing start (notably, from less than the 10 meter start distance we have here) by such a margin the shockwave staggers even Dracula himself, a certified mid tier physically and far beyond Slade (see his punch on Alucard in Post#1). I would like to be able to give your argument some credit but I can see no parity between our combatants here, reacting to something (potentially) moving that fast in a one off desperate dodge (i.e his duck against the revolver) is clearly not the same as actually operating at those speeds and it's night and day when you compare the two.

Terminating the terminator is just as straightforward;

While you have a definite strength advantage, Slade is no stranger to wall-busting damage which is what you provided. Unarmoured he could tank being punched through walls by powergirl and take blows to the face that punch through walls and destroy the ground around him.

Alucard can just keep doing it back to back;

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...so it's not like Deathstroke enduring being punched through one wall changes the current physical disparity. Notably though what I actually showed you wasn't wall busting it was Alucard bullrushing his dad through an entire section of the castle. That's tiers better than just wall busting as they were in the castle stone for several seconds and we know exactly how fast Alucard can move at this point. You tried to prove Slade could take a hit with an instance of him being lightly cratered into the ground, when Alucard would have had him 10 or so meters into the earth based on the showing above. Alucard has cracked stone just by moving;

Look at where he took off
Look at where he took off

...so DS tanking a hit that creates a human sized crater isn't standout. Even if none of that were true Alucard has more than one form;

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...and even as a wolf retains his great strength, popping a vampire inside his armour like a grape. So regardless of whether it's by getting his head plucked off or his throat ripped out Alucard will be able to deal with an unarmoured DS's durability without much fanfare.

Brilliant. But lazy.

Lastly we've gotta cover the fight between Alucard and Spider-Man as regardless of what end befalls his teammates Peter will be the last man standing. Everything we're about to cover is still operating on a worst case scenario where for some reason Beast can't help, though this is unlikely.

Idk about pushing the speed limits, but I’m more interested in strength. Being as strong as 616(assuming that’s the spider you mean, if you mean ISM then okay) would be admitting you’re over limits.

Lifting strength limit is 25 tons and Spider-Man typically operates around that level. Saying Alucard is in that tier doesn't put me above limits though I do believe he and Insomniac Peter are peers in this regard.

Thankfully for you I don’t think this feat is as good as you think it is. Like as visually impressive it it looks……

....bullrushing someone continually with wall busting force and punching someone sending them flying through all of that are vastly different things. One would call for way more strength and be much more impressive, while the other looks strong but ultimately is just continually exerting the same amount of force over a period of time.

Obviously if he just one shot Dracula through a castle it'd be better but you're talking as if that is just wall busting. One can be accomplished by smashing through a single layer of brick and the other is comparable to tunnelling into the earth a good distance. You said this;

And for the record I would say Spider-Man can tank this.

...based on;

A comparable or outright better feat would be taking being rammed through a smokestack just fine.

...which is a bit confusing. Spider-Man can tank Alucards rush because he got bullrushed through a far small building that is hollow by design? Alucard was in the castle stonework for several seconds whereas Peter was out in an instant. I don't think this matters given by the time we fight Alucard will be armed but Electro's feat is not really comparable outside of being a bullrush.

I do still have BannerTech shields, which would let me survive/no sell the spear and could use it for myself.

I wasn't suggesting Alucard would throw his only weapon away, he'll use the spear as a melee weapon. If you choose to use your shields for five seconds that's fine, it just gives Beast more time to join our battle.

Though Spider-Man is also much much stronger and could disarm Alucard if it ever came down to it

Pulling a truck doesn't even seem top tier for Pete. Even if he'd lifted it above his head it'd be like a 15 ton feat. I'm unconvinced he's stronger at all when Peter doesn't really have anything comparable to basically swimming in stone like above. Additionally even before we get into speed there's a pretty big issue with the idea of disarming Alucard in that he's a skilled fighter in his own right;

  1. When not abusing his speed he and Trevor Belmont (Think Van Helsing, most skilled fighter in the verse) are near equals in sword play.
  2. Outskills Dracula despite the fact Vlad has centuries of experience on his son.
  3. Is able to parry and avoid attacks from multiple angles when facing a teleporter.

That last one is a pretty good example as despite the vampires initial advantage Alucard is able to come up with a gruesome plan;

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...by abusing the mechanics of his teleportation and setting him up at every turn. We both know Spideys track record against skilled fighters isn't great even when he outstats them in every sense, so trying something like a disarm on Alucard isn't wise.

And Spider-Man has shown he can stop punches from Rhino(with both hands) who is the physically strongest of the S6.

Spider-Man shouldn’t have an issue hurting Alucard at all.

Alexi's striking still pales in comparison to Vlad;

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...and Alucard fought him alone for several minutes. I'm not disputing that Spider-Man could hurt Alucard with his punches but the Dhampir has clearly taken better and kept fighting fine, he's not getting KO'd before landing the one hit he needs. On that;

I disagree.

"The combination of Peter's own reflexes + Spider sense might keep him in it for a bit but he's going to get hit by Alucard solo when the Dhampir can perceive even supernatural Night Creatures as basically frozen;"

Spider-Man has shown that RPGs and superhumans from the raft would be moving in slow motion to him.

I'd like to point out that it seems to be an instance of Peter also moving in slow motion at the same time, it seems to clearly be a Spidey-sense slow-mo thing rather than statueing an RPG. For perspective I want to post the feat again alongside one of Peters;

If it doesn't work.

Loading Video...
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...I don't think it's a disservice to Peter to use his fight against the Sinister villains because it's probably his best showing of speed and agility. One is a good example of a superhuman moving fast enough to avoid several foes before ultimately getting tagged, the other is a character moving so fast they're invisible and on both sides of their foe so quickly it's basically instantaneous. I don't see how Alucards speed advantage isn't clear cut. I know you've used this as this as proof Peter is FTE but seem to ignore the last line;

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...he'd just managed to hide above them after dodging their gunfire, nothing about it would lead us to believe he's moved fast enough to be effectively invisible in the same vein as Alucard.

And even if he takes a hit so what? He’s taken worse, in worse condition. He’s going to tank it.

At the point these two face off Alucard has a oneshot weapon from your teammates so not a likely scenario.

That’s not really intangible, and would this even counter webs if I just shown a swarm of bees(something smaller than bats) can get incapped?

Not sustained webs if Peter could actually land enough to cocoon Alucard, sure. But the regular webs he uses in a fight? Absolutely.

Summary

  • Our team has a stacked deck coming into this fight. Our foes are injured, have activated traps and are in the middle of an ambush.
  • Basically my entire post is a worst case scenario where none of the traps work and Beast didn't fight like the monster he is. With those factors in play it's even easier.
  • Spider-Man is probably going to avoid the traps but there's little to prove he can save his weaker teammates, never mind while he's being set upon by Plasmids. We know for a fact weaker swarms have occupied him for similar time frames in the past and all we need here is a few moments to eliminate his pals.
  • The Prince of Orphans still has very little going for him in terms of combat speed and at best can BFR himself once this fight starts if he reacts at all in his injured state. This in character strategy would actually benefit us as it serves to break up his team even more.
  • Deathstroke can't even hide behind intangibility if he does react at all and right now bar one relatively low tier instance of timing a revolver shot is reliant solely on faulty scaling.
  • The main strategy of Deathstroke and Prince of Orphan's debaters was to present one feat of their own and then immediately reach for scaling (especially in Slade's case, a character with 40 years of feats). The fact this was the go-to strategy rather than using their own consistent feats is a telling sign that these characters do not operate on that level often if at all, never mind the fact that even if they did I have shown Alucard is still considerably faster.
  • Neither Deathstroke or Prince of Orphans were shown to have durability that Alucard couldn't bypass in one hit accompanied by speed abuse, or a bite from his wolf form, meaning that yes a blitzoneshot.ggez strat is still what's happening.
  • Spider-Man and Alucard are rivals physically though the Dhampir is both quicker and more skilled, which combined with the weaponry of Peter's fallen allies is all that is needed to win that fight, even solo.
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buildhare

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I appreciate some debaters rely solely on arrogant language and crippling overuse of words like laughable, ludicrous and ridiculous in order to build a lofty perch from which to piss down on the rest of us in disdain. However these debates aren't any fun to have and reading through what is essentially pompous monologuing about supposed superiority is even less so. With that in mind I'm going to isolate the arguments ostensibly made in bad faith to just this section before the post proper;

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10/10 copypasta

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defiant_will

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Sheesh. Very impressive post BH. Shame I can’t vote

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BladeOfFury

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Good post

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@buildhare: Why would Alucard be entering the battle with level 4 injuries? I’m confused. Because of the traps?

Assume that everyone has a basic mastery of whatever gear they have.

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#38  Edited By TheWatcherKing

@geekryan: if you’ll give us till 10:30 PM EST time the posts should all be up. Me and Naronu finished Maalik’s got most of it done and not sure how close we’re cutting it

Edit nvm

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#39  Edited By Naronu

Conclusion

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Beast

Injuries

You didn’t say anything about how Spider-Man has dealt with level four amounts of damage....

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...while here he’s at best sprained or has a few gashes. It should go without saying that Spider-Man can deal with this, though you still are trying to pretend he’s majorly weakened when comparing beast to insomniac Spider-Man.

Let’s not pretend like you aren’t damage either from the acidic/poison fog. You got caught in it meaning you not only had acid on you but inside you as you breathed it in. And while you are recovering as you initially had lvl 2 damage and it’s lvl 1 you aren’t back at full health, and you need to take into consideration how your performance would be at least somewhat not matching your peak. And I can pretty easily see your traps backfiring on your teammate.

Traps

So let’s look at every single trap you plan to utilize

All of the ones from your video can be boiled down to three types

1. Traps involving animals

2. Traps where you step on something and fall

3. Traps where you set off a tripwire.

Immediately we can rule out the ones with animals as you didn’t collect any in your RP and obviously they won’t do anything. And given the location nothing overhead falling on us will work, and honestly pits where you fall wouldn’t work as well given it’s concrete/rocks from the looks of it and not a lush environment full of vegetation to make it less obvious like in Vietnam but I guess you can still try it.

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However given Slade’s experience and tactical mind rivals The Batman, Spider-Man has precognition, and Prince of Orphans can mist to phase through this who would this be effective against? No one, all of the one’s that involving firing something(arrows) or something hitting you cause of a tripwire would be too slow to work for people who can perceive supersonic projectiles and dodge them. Any arrow would be basically not moving to their eyes and that goes double for anything like the spike board or whip.

And even if you set these traps you aren’t immune to this, especially if you’re in a situation where you are getting jumped you can accidentally fall into them. The only trap that’s worth discussing is the spring razor. Which you neglected to and failed prove it’s speed when I touched on it(or talk about it’s range), for all we know it’s at the speed of arrows or it could be faster not that you tried to even answer that. And we’re out in the open remember, with you ten meters away from us in the middle of a town. There’s no places to really discretely hide it it’s an obvious assortment of metal. Not to mention to the left of us is a freaking giant blue furry…. You aren’t really hidden and the way your post reads you’re setting traps along the path to the alter which you hope would be Hard to spot because of the forest but that’s not the case. All of these traps from 50s tailored to jungle/forest warfare alongside an obvious assortment of metal wont catch us off guard, and you aren’t hidden so trying to stay out of sight for an opportune time isn’t possible.

TLDR;

The location doesn’t leave a lot of places for these traps that aren’t hyper obvious, and the speed of these traps would be way too slow for people of our caliber if it’s one’s involving projectiles. You never proven the speed of the springrazor the main one you’re banking on, you just said it’s Adamantium and hope it’s enough. The very fact it’s adamantium would mean it’s heavier and would take even more force just to move at the speeds relative to what it moves in the game, so you really should’ve proven you can create some fast projectile adamantium traps.

First thing the injured warriors showed to counter this is Spidey sense.... neat trick to get Spiderman away from the trap, but I dont see why it would save Slade or Orphan

he flips away..fair enough but he has no time to warn the others...his voice is only mach 1...hed be wasting precious moments he doest have warning them

And? You didn't even prove the traps are mach 1.... don't act like you proven they're mach three cause you didn't. And acting like he can't speak and move out of range at the same time is stupid, especially since he would sense it before it happens.

That said if any of Spider-Man’s teammates were to die Spider-Man wouldn’t be pulling any punches, he would be a lot less nice and considering where you’re arguing your stats(wall level durability) you would end up getting one shot.

he doesnt sense traps that are not tripped.....

This isn’t a very logical counter, those torrents can’t fire at Spider-Man as they were inside the pillar, and nothing he does would trigger them to be fired at him. The spider sense warns about more immediate threats….

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….those guns as they were couldn’t have been a danger to anyone so he wasn’t warned. If Spider-Man is walking towards a grenade basically that would blow up if he gets too close to it.… it’ll warn him beforehand. It’s that simple, which is why Spider-Man would be alerted to the spring razors as we get close to the alter making the ambush attack ruined, he could just quickly dispose of them flinging them away from our team or just have them be set off in a way that we’re not going to be harm(using webbing to set it off while we’re far enough away).

If he happened upon a tripwire it would warn him... the spider sense doesn’t warn about things that aren’t a danger. It doesn’t even have to be a danger to Spider-Man himself as shown with miles. Hell chances are Spider-Man would sense your killing intent from the get go invalidating those whole ambush even further but I digress.

in fact Spider Sense has failed so many times that id ask the voters to consider Spiderman being hit by the initial 3 spring razors if he does try to call out a warning.

And you fail to list a single example for me to debunk, you just say "it's failed so it probably will for my featless traps outside of them being made of a specific metal". And a simple "watch out" wouldn't make him lose "precious time". Hell you need to prove that it's moving too fast for Spider-Man to not be able to fire a web line to save someone before the trap reaches one of my allies so I save them quick once I'm out of the way. Webs are provably fast, fast enough to cover at least a foot or two before a shot can leave the barrel.

But I’ll give another option for survival, the banner shields. They again molecularly repulse attacks strong enough to shield attacks from high tiers and can be used to shield multiple people at once. Given this was the start of the fight I wouldn’t have used the shields yet so they can be used here, and it’s not a continuous attack so it wouldn’t use all 5 seconds I have.

So there are MULTIPLE avenues for surviving your adamantium AoE attack right off the bat that Spider-Man alone brings, when everyone on this team has things that make this unlikely to kill us.

  1. Spider sense that would warn us of an upcoming ambush
  2. Spider sense that would warn us when walking towards the obvious weapon that will explode if we get close
  3. given the speed and range were never elaborated on Spider-Man should have no trouble avoiding it
  4. Spider-Man has shields that be able to fend off attacks from adamantium shrapnel if needed.

Spider-Man will NOT die to this, and those shields can shield multiple people at once as I said. For as strong as adamantium is struggles with force fields like Susan’s or juggernauts.

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So the New Warriors won’t fall to your adamantium trap, full stop.

not the same as fighting beat on a trap premed environment.

But the trap is also much much more complex, while yours are traps made for a jungle/forest while we're basically in a Minecraft type village. The traps are insanely out of place, not to mention Spider-Man would literally sense either Beast/Alucard’s killing intent on the way to the alter, or would sense the spring razors as an immediate danger before we get too close even if we ignore that it’s an obvious trap out in the open with a blue animal 10m to our left.

Plus Alucard has

  • No precog
  • None of the tactical experience for seeing through these traps
  • No knowledge of these traps
  • And no intangibility

So chances that you end up killing/hurting your teammate are high if you want to treat these traps as a threat, or if you admit they aren’t then they’re irrelevant.

Again, you are injured, severely... simply not capable of your best showings, while Beast has 3 initial spring razor traps and traps set about the forest.

Not in the forest, and I’ll point out there’s an audible sound it gives off before sending shrapnel everywhere similar to a grenade so slade wouldn’t be helpless against it. Plus once again Spider-Man would sense this before we get too close, and we deal with it accordingly.

He has full knowledge on where these traps are you do not, I think thats a pretty mighty advantage for beast and alarcard on top of your sever injuries.

Not alucard, cause he has 0 knowledge on the traps and Spider-Man would have sensed this before even reaching the alter.

Beast

Stated to be one of the worlds best brawlers, Beast is a match for anyone on team 2 even if they weren't wounded and surrounded by traps.

Definitely not.

I showed 4 instances of Beast weaving between bullets and 4 of him catching missiles and Wolverine commenting that beast is hard to hit...one of the bullet reactions was double linked apologies.. Beast has lots of bullet dodging so here is 5 different instances (not shown in my first post) of Beast weaving through bullets1.2.3.4.5.The fifth one he threw a rock to intercept a bullet

In regards to the third scan, Cyclops’ back was turned and Wolverine at times takes attacks he can avoid due to his healing factor. This was even noted in verse by Laura Kinney(X-23, Logan’s clone) in all new wolverine when she became the new wolverine she acted the same way to emulate Logan. As for your general bullet feats, quite literally none of them are straight up bullet timing. While I can certainly agree Beast should be a bullet timer, you don’t try very hard in proving it. A bullet timing feat is bullets being fired and your character performing some sort of action after the fact tot avoid it, or deal with it, and while he is avoiding it none of the scans make it very clear if it was preemptive or not. And I would be willing to afford you Beast being a bullet timer(not that it would put you at the Mach 3 limits of speed) if your partner wasn’t having the same mentality towards my partners bullet feats.

As for Spider-Man? I already shown he has feats of reacting to electricity to put him at the limits, he has also reacted to bullets (1,2). Even sniper bullets(this was a perfect dodge which in game means waiting till an attack is coming to dodge at the last second).

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Also Spider-Man has great movement speed with his webbing(even without them he has FTE feats), like shown here or here when he covers a significant distance at least relative to a rocket (more agility).

Also you brought up how Beast has created afterimages which I think just indicated movement, but even if we say they were Afterimages Black Cat(and Spider-Man) have done so too.

Yet she has trouble with the speed of his webbing.

I doubt Beast would have an easy time breaking out as you shown no strength feats to say he could when webbing is this strong and there will be no leverage to use your claws. A webbing incap would only be easier with gear like the suspension matrix, which manipulates gravity. Considering your speed feats and how fast I shown webbing to be you should have trouble avoiding it too.

These feats are specifically feats against traps, and the mine field took out Wasp in shrunken form, nothing the other team showed comes close...to add to that Beast beats Nightcrawler in a game they call.. obstacle corse chess.

He is agile which no one is doubting but I don’t think showing up avengers like Tony or Thor is anything noteworthy. Wasp is alright bot because of her speed necessarily but how small she is. It doesn’t beat all the showings I shown, nor does avoiding some wooden traps from Kraven.

To reiterate (1,2,3,4) in addition to the others I’ve already posted. Even if you think you do have the edge it’s not to a large enough degree that it’s an advantage, which I would disagree with anyway.

AP. No one here argued they could tank Beasts claws they just claimed he might not use them...Beast its not someone who shys away from killing, in fact in a bunch of the comics ive been reading about Beast his morals are super suspect...Because no-one claimed they could tank the claws that ripped up Danger and his regular strikes are pretty good too...He broke Silver Samurai's helmet

I did say ripping up danger would likely put you above limits given how strong danger is, but that I also don’t need to as based on what you’re arguing Alucard is getting beat up first and beast gets jumped after. Though even if Beast does fight Spider-Man with spider sense and speed at the limits I should be fine given your speed feats, the fact that we’re able to operate in milliseconds and I have a Bannershield which will activate when needed to protect me from an attack for 5s, and I have range with suspension matrixes and webbing while you haven’t prepped any offensive weapons for long range attacks.

Dura... I was asked for something more quantifiable than scaling. Here he is getting hit through a wall..and different versions of himself busting concrete with his face.

Is that all? Punched through a wall and cracking concrete is what you have to offer? Then I don’t see your durability holding out to Spider-Man’s strength, any of the feats I went through in my first post should be enough to one shot Beast again if this is where you argue his durability is at. Just for the sake of reminding everyone how strong Spider-Man is his Arachknight suit is the prototype to his velocity suit(he upgrades it later to be built for speed), at this point it just had more flexibility in terms of movements.

And Spider-Man just flexing punching the ground was enough to shatter his suit so he could move around easier.

The velocity suit was shown no selling bullets and took an explosion that sent trucks flying.

If wall level feats is the most you can boast you’re getting one shot by Spider-Man.

Insomniac Spider-Man- Not quite his 616 counterpart especially when injured and with minimal gear.

Still falling back on his injuries when I said how that won’t be an issue here? And minimal gear? All 616 typically has are his web shooters, I have bannerTech shields, web shooters and suspension matrixes.

I could only find one instance Beast fought 616 Spider-Man, both were brainwashed and the fight was off panel...but they seem fairly comparable.

And scaling to 616 when the limits are that you aren’t supposed to be comparable to 616 Spider-Man in stats? Otherwise I could easily bring up Insomniac’s encounter with SpOck in Spider Geddon, this comparison isn’t valid in this scenario. And I would disagree with the scaling anyway, there’s also times where beast is portrayed nowhere near the likes of Spider-Man. Like in Spider-Man (1990) issue 15, they’re fighting a neutral opponent and while Spider-Man can hold his own Beast immediately gets one shot at the start of the fight and while Spider-Man is in combat eventually wakes back up only to get one shot again.

Tho it should be noted that Spiderman has outperformed Beast on occasion in thier various teamups

Correct.

Keep in mind in post one I showedBeast beating Kraven,

Kraven's stats aren't on Peter's level, 616 or otherwise.

fighting on par with Wolverine;

a morals off beast but he's also been outdone by Logan. And you brought up how Wolverine said he forgot how fast Hawk is but the second he took beast even slightly serious he was on the ground and was stabbed. I would dare even say he got blitzed but definitely couldn't react in time.

wolverine(1988) 162

Beast even implies he was hurt by being thrown down by Logan in a joking manner who is nowhere near Spider-Man(Insomniac) in raw strength but if you want to dismiss it as a joke I won't hold it against you.

I think its fair to say that Beast and 616 Spiderman are pretty comparable stat wise with Spiderman having some advantages...........when both are at full health.

I love how you cling to the damage argument for dear life when you have a partner in way worse condition, aren't fresh yourself, and you didn't even try to debunk the fact that Spider-Man has while at lvl 4 amounts of damage taken on a bunch of enemies who are either at his level, slightly below, or stronger than he is.

Insomniac Spider-Man is not at full health tho, and Beast has prepped the field.. I think the raw feats shown for Beast are plenty to show he a serious threat.

Durability wise, the feats shown would have beast one shot and feat wise no raw strength feats were shown so he can't break out of webbing or overpower Spider-Man. Speed doesn't seem to be hitting limits, standard dodging bullets and just scaling off wolverine for general combat speed. I'm not convinced Beast would be able to hang in CQC with someone with speed at limits/precog, superior strength and durability(claws are the one thing that would help him hurt Spider-Man based on what you shown and I have shields). I think your presentation on Beast has him as a much smaller threat in comparison to Alucard, who Spider-Man can also deal with.

but along with his prep and health advantage he also has fought with and fought beside a Spider dozens of times so he will understand the fighting style and tactics that Spidey will likely use, Insomniac Spider-Man has not met or fought a Beast.

A Spider-Man with more gear, and different fighting experience means a different fighting style. And despite being self taught Spider-Man has shown decent amounts of skill in how he fights.

The initial 3 adamantium Spring Razor traps seem like the are very likely to outright kill Deathstroke and Orphan, both are heavily damaged(level 3) and they didnt show feats to avoid omnidirectional adamantium shrapnel in any case.

One can turn intangible, and you failed to elaborate on how

  1. Fast said shrapnel would be moving
  2. The range for said attack

Which you should have done if asserting the proof given in favor of slade wasn't enough. Either way it sounds like you agree Spider-Man avoids this with little issue

and he has some heavy advantages against the injured Spider-Man including traps and knowledge.

Super obvious traps given the environment and knowledge of those traps is your only advantage. It wouldn't be impossible for you to be caught in your own traps.

from the 3 spring razors near the alter to 7 more spring razors set where Beast knows, spiked pitfalls and weakened branches.

Weakened branches when we're in the middle of a town? Either way the 3 adamantium razors won’t take us out, or at the very least Spider-Man out. He has too many options and counters for such a simple and lazy strategy.

So you have a couple of choices

  1. Spider-Man's spider sense makes this ambush futile, allowing us to not get within range of these traps added on Slade/PoO's tactical minds. We promptly body Beast while Alucard tries to jump in
  2. Spider-Man/team avoid the spring razor trap in one of the numerous counters we have to it
  3. Best case scenario for you the trap takes out one of my teammates(definitely not both) and you have an enraged Spider-Man to deal with while your durability is literally one shot material.

Really, even if everything goes you guys way I would like to point out how consistent again Spider-Man takes out opponents while outnumbered and disadvantaged. I don't see Spider-Man falling here.

Alucard

I want it to be noted Buildhare’s entire argument is predicated on a borderline fan fiction type scenario where he can keep Spider-Man preoccupied with bees while he kills my teammates(why Alucard would choose Spider-Man he never said) and go onto steal their gear and use it to kill Peter Parker. Which I don’t at all mind that, but if any of this can’t go as he needs them to his whole plan falls apart

You quoted a long list of my actions in order to frame it as though I hadn't properly prepared to use my item. This is despite the fact you are currently being ambushed in exactly a scenario where your foes organized the attack without posting in the main thread, but rather through messages to the Gamemasters about actions undertaken without broadcasting them to the greater games. Additionally the games have been running for two days in universe at this point, obviously Alucard has inspected his item.

I had counters to this subject but since a ruling has been made I'll leave this be.

A mutual understanding has been made by Beast and Alucard, we don't need to have extensive training around fighting styles for this to work given the plan is dead simple.When the enemy triggers the traps, attack.There's no complexity to it and with neither of us having AoE there's no chance we're getting in each others way.

There was no knowledge given on the traps, and talk of what the plan is from that RP. And I didn’t say you needed knowledge on each other’s fighting style, I merely am talking about The New Warriors advantage and how it’s one you don’t have. Don’t have AoE? Clearly you haven’t been reading your own teammates posts…. Omnidirectional spring razors are what then? Even if I pretend in your weakened state you weren’t caught in the adamantium ones there are more, and you only find out about it when you see it and not a moment before.

You've had two fights spanning a period of minutes, and this is going to allow you to function effectively as a team

????

First where are you getting these timeframes from? No one from any participants on my team, me, nor the GMs mentioned how long these fights lasted so where did you get them from? And I said was that we

  1. Have knowledge of each other’s fighting style and abilities.
  2. Having fought alongside each other and would have some level of coordination.
  3. And are once again fighting for our lives together.

None of which is wrong as you admitted, I never said we would have anything resembling perfect teamwork, but it would be way better than yours. All you guys did was look at each other, nod and split up. Objectively speaking it’s not debatable we would have a much higher level coordination than you guys, that’s not up for discussion.

For reference as to how this Spider-Man has gone historically in team ups with morally reprehensible characters; Otto leaving someone to die, even for the greater good, leads Peter to just lose his marbles and attack him. That two good guys like Beast and Alucard are going to have worse chemistry when your most powerful character is diametrically opposed to the methods of his teammates, is just incorrect.

….. This is such a horrible example. 1048 Spider-Man had a mentor relationship with his Otto, which carried over when he met SpOck. And SpOck literally recruited Insomniac Spider-Man to be apart of his team that was for killing the Inheritors while miles had his own team for dealing with them without killing

The reason they had a falling out is SpOck seemingly betrayed Ben Reilly just to save his own skin…. as Ben said “I think we should’ve told the others what we’re doing”, meaning obviously Insomniac Spider-Man didn’t have the full story. Nor did he know that Ben could be brought back like he ultimately was.

This becomes even more stupid because despite all of that they do work together as seen at the end of the same scan where Spider-Man finds out they had a plan.

Your example is bad in every meaningful way imaginable, you gave an example…. left out ALL context and either forgot or tried to lie about the fact that they still do work together throughout the entire series both before it seeming like SpOck sold them out(when Insomniac was recruited for helping kill the Inheritors) and after it seemed like they were sold out by SpOck. Not to mention they threaten the stability of the multiverse with what they would due to the web of life, so obviously “losing his marbles“ was more than plausible. Looking less and less brilliant as we go on….

In reality though Spider-Man's physical state matters the least by far here, our plan is not dependant on him being weakened.

I’ll take this as a concession that he will not be weakened to any substantial degree, but I still need to point out how wrong you are regardless.

Twice vs Scorpion, the latter encounter only because of the resulting poison effect.

I'll count the first time as the collective sinister six assault. Which is the encounter where he suffered level four amounts of damage and as soon as he he woke back up jumped right back into action with 14 broken bones.

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Second time with scorpion he nearly died if he didn't cure himself and was fighting unconsciousness and intense hallucinations barely able to stand at some points. But was still swinging around the city to get what he needed for a cure

First beatdown from Ock. Didn't meet the listed criteria but he was in a poor state.

Sure.

Second beatdown from Ock.

Second beatdown as in after the mr negative fight or when Peter won the boss fight?

.under no circumstancesdid he run through most of what you listed back to back without time to recover. Obviously you or I would be in the ICU but hours of time between these major events if not days is ample time for someone with Spider-Mans healing to return to near normal.

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. After the sinister six fight Spider-Man was brought to the feast shelter and did take some time to recover(while he was passed out) but immediately upon waking got back to work. From that point forward there's 0 indications of any sort of break, the only exception we see is when he sits down after the boss fight against Electro/Vulture. It was night time when he woke up from the S6 fight was shown to be morning/afternoon for the boss missions with Rhino/Scorpion and back to night time by Mr negative and Doc Ock battle meaning the final part of the game took place in one 24 hour period. There's absolutely nothing but your own (time and time shown to be wrong) headcanon showing multiple days passed.

And within that time he has to defeat all of the escapees from the raft across the city, deal with demons, and rogue Sable agents who were putting people in harms way trying to maintain order. All of what I said occurred and that would be obvious for anyone who played the game. And it was reinforced by Yuri that Spider-Man still had 14 broken bones when Spider-Man left F.E.A.S.T. to deal with bad guys and not recover like you're trying to imply.

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Broken bones are not the same as broken limbs.

Do not strawman me, I didn't say that. But that also obviously depends on which bones are broken and where.

Breaking some ribs is clearly bad but Peter could still mostly endure that, he never came close to breaking a leg etc.

You have a wonderful knack for presenting arguments I never made and then trying to debunk them, but what evidence would you have for that anyway? I would love to see you try to prove it. But I'm even more interested in this....

I'd just outright dispute the spine thing hyperbole as if he actually had his spine destroyed he'd be paralysed or dead.

….audacious statement. I don't care what you assert but you need to try to prove it, the fact that his spine was broken was outright stated and addressed as something they were surprised didn't kill him. Just because that would be the result of a normal person means nothing, Spider-Man isn't normal. You haven't put forth any effort into debunking the showing cause you can't.

In reality though Spider-Man's physical state matters the least by far here, our plan is not dependant on him being weakened.

Cause he can easily deal with them and has dealt with enemies more numerous than you guys, more versatile/powerful(some more so than Spider-Man himself) and he still won them. That's fact.

Spider-Man, attacked at all sides, is probably going to prioritise the least lethal threat last even if his Spider-sense does manage to navigate all the danger in this ambush. Obviously that would be the purely disruptive Plasmids.

Attacked from all sides by who? Beast? Who your partner said is going to mostly be hiding until an opportune time? You? Who won’t fight me till you can find a weapon? Who’s attacking me other than some bees? There’s the traps, but as I proven I can outright no sell them if I really want, their speed is unquantifiable as is their range so easily “flipping out of the way” is enough as even D4 said in my case. After which, only the Plasmids would be attacking me unless you abandon your initial 10 second team bust strategy.

So not only did you manage to be wrong but also couldn’t keep your own argument consistent with itself alongside the argument of your partners.

Given Peter is only 10 meters away and he's getting jumped from multiple angles I doubt the swarm is failing to tag him. Even if they did having Peter flee for 10 seconds accomplishes exactly the same thing, which is to incapacitate or otherwise waste time, not kill.

I don’t need to do that though, and I’m not being attacked by multiple angles.

I've shown you a Plasmid effecting something that can no sell gatling gun fire in Post #1, gnawing through webbing doesn't seem like an issue for that level of damage output.

Brilliant argument, but lazy in terms of research. See, you didn’t do that. You shown the plasmids effecting a different Big daddy altogether

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NjpEV0vzDpk

Rosie on the left, bouncer on the right
Rosie on the left, bouncer on the right

The one you shown being effected by the bees was the Rosie, while the one that was eating bullets is on the right which is better armored and more melee oriented. Perhaps you should’ve tried to do better?

telegraphed in advance.

They’re bees man, they aren’t doing anything fancy. The fastest bees move at 20 mph according to a quick google search, and the videos you yourself show doesn’t have them moving in any different of a pattern than the swarm Spider-Man webbed up. They move in as one swarm towards their target, Spider-Man would have no issues jumping back webbing them in a web net and moving on like he already has.

When Peters Spidey sense starts playing up here there's no way his first assumption is going to be shoot his uber specializedBeeBagWebTMdirectly behind him and instead Pete would much more likely opt to just run. Kinda like he did, you know, againstliterally the same guy

He’s also done the exact same thing I said???

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So what kind of argument is this? Why would he not do exactly what he’s already done…… that worked? Are you that afraid of fighting me?

This Spider-Man has explicitly struggled with regular bee swarms in the past.

He “struggled” with S.W.A.R.M. In their first encounter only, and even then he was stomping him till he tried incapping him but didn’t realize the bees came out of his own body and that he couldn’t leave openings in the webbing like he did.

side note this is a feat for the webbing having the momentum to fire underwater and still hit its target.

And right after this S.W.A.R.M. ran away anyway. After this Spider-Man no diff’d him later in the same series(he had the velocity suit at that time) and then he beat him as I already shown in a single page in CaW.

I would think the fact he has experience with someone who’s power is bees, and has a method that worked in the past it would be common sense that he used the same thing again? But I suppose it is true common sense isn’t common.

And they aren't normal bees anyway? The guy that became swarm turned himself into those bees, any feats they have are their own. Obviously normal bees wouldn't be keeping up with Spider-Man

In an ambush scenario, attacked from below, behind and in front he's going to deal with this the only way that could feasibly work (if they were just bees and not a living bioweapon) in the barely an instant he has to do so before he's surrounded?

Stop overrating these traps from the Vietnam war, in this location they would be obvious and the spring razors wouldn’t be easily dealt with as I already stated. Spider-Man isn’t being attacked at all sides either, not that it’s anything new? Didn’t I already say that Spider-Man clears waves of enemies when he fights the demons, sable troops, and super powered escapees from the raft? Bees and punji stakes are comparatively child’s play. Attacks from all sides aren’t anything new

Doesn't seem super likely to me.

Let’s reiterate…. It doesn’t seem super likely for Spider-Man to use webbing in a manner he’s already used them against the same type of threat? A method that would work here as you lazily couldn’t get the right armors together? What part of this doesn’t seem likely?

Just a reminder that webbing is strong (1,2). The fact that he has done similar in the past, and according to you is in such a dire situation it should be even MORE plausible that he do what worked(webbing them up) and not what didn’t (running away). But it’s quite obvious you’re only saying this cause you need this to be true, not because it makes a lick of sense.

Obviously Spider-Man could come up with a solution given time but when all I'm asking for is mere moments it's beside the point

He has a solution…. one that can remove the issue instantly. You just don’t like it cause it doesn’t soot your needs. The fact that Spider-Man has so much experience with someone with bee powers and webbing them has gotten him the win why would he go for running away? That’s stupid, if the situation is as bad as you think that’s all the more reason to deal with the issue as fast as possible not take your time. Especially since it’s not like he would have trouble webbing them up, you already failed to prove they can gnaw their way out of the webbing(though they weren’t biting people they were stinging), and they neither possess the speed or nor ability to avoid the webbing. And right after that Spider-Man’s attention would be directed to Alucard, the man trying to rip off his teammates heads while unarmed and Spider-Man himself has several pieces of gear.

confirming that the showing wasn't truly FTE as she was seen in action.

I know this was in regards to DS but this is stupid, first regular humans bullet time and then this.

Lastly we've gotta cover the fight between Alucard and Spider-Man as regardless of what end befalls his teammates Peter will be the last man standing. Everything we're about to cover is still operating on a worst case scenario where for some reason Beast can't help, though this is unlikely.

It's incredibly likely the character that was presented as having wall level durability gets one shot by Spider-Man, what's unlikely is taking out out two characters near or at the limits in ten seconds one of whom straight up can be intangible(whole body for five of those seconds, half or less unrestricted). The fact you haven't even considered a scenario where you don't solo them before the bees time limit runs out(or a scenario where Spider-Man does something he's already done.... a web net) is interesting to me. I think it's cause you know that's an automatic loss for you especially since your whole win strategy is built upon stealing weapons because unarmed you aren't beating Spider-Man let alone with backup.

Obviously if he just one shot Dracula through a castle it'd be better but you're talking as if that is just wall busting.

Obviously the collective destruction caused was above wall level but that is a wall busting attack used continuously .... which is why the electro feat is much better.

...based on;

Could it possibly be the feat I directly compared it to say it’s better?

Spider-Man can tank Alucards rush because he got bullrushed through a far small building that is hollow by design? Alucard was in the castle stonework for several seconds whereas Peter was out in an instant.

That’s kinda the point? Because of how long it took to cause that damage it’s not nearly as impressive as you’re thinking. It’s the difference between destroying half a city in one shot and doing the same thing overtime rampaging. While Electro destroyed a structure slamming into Spider-Man ”in an instant” as you said with comparable or greater amounts of concrete/rock. It’s quite simple, there’s also the blasts electro was doing that I already shown. While injured as I’ve already established.

I don't think this matters given by the time we fight Alucard will be armed but Electro's feat is not really comparable outside of being a bullrush.

How well Spider-Man can take your attacks definitely matters if you end up in a scenario where

A) Your bees are dealt with much faster than your plan needs

B) You end up struggling to take down my teammates

C) You get disarmed

I wasn't suggesting Alucard would throw his only weapon away, he'll use the spear as a melee weapon. If you choose to use your shields for five seconds that's fine, it just gives Beast more time to join our battle.

Funny you say that but this was you?

Everything we're about to cover is still operating on a worst case scenario where for some reason Beast can't help, though this is unlikely.

And you realize if that was a scenario it would be the worst possible outcome for you right? 1v1’ing a superior opponent when both of us are able to operate in milliseconds and for five seconds I’m effectively invulnerable to all of your attacks and can still attack you right?

And considering your partner was shown to have Wall level durability what stops Spider-Man from one shotting him and continuing to trounce you?

Pulling a truck doesn't even seem top tier for Pete.

It’s not I’ve already shown better (1 ,2) I was just assuming you arguing the bullrushing feat as striking but you’re arguing it as raw strength which is fine.

doesn't really have anything comparable to basically swimming in stone like above.

That's overselling it but I would be willing to say that it makes them comparable in raw strength given we're both at the limit

Additionally even before we get into speed there's a pretty big issue with the idea of disarming Alucard in that he's a skilled fighter in his own right;

When I meant disarming I was talking webbing and snatching it away. I did show Spider-Man is skillful in how he fights but I can also go over his fighting more skilled opponents than himself if you think that Alucard has the skill advantage.

We both know Spideys track record against skilled fighters isn't great even when he outstats them in every sense, so trying something like a disarm on Alucard isn't wise.

Except he literally stomped Taskmaster twice both times when he had prep and watched Spider-Man’s moves? After he lost the first time only challenging Spider-Man again once he made sure he had no other moves that could surprise him?

Taskmaster who could copy people’s moves upon seeing once, could anticipate moves(could even figure out which leg Spider-Man favored) and had gone toe to toe with their worlds avengers. He got stomped twice by Spider-Man even when noting Spider-Man was holding back.

As for sable it’s said in her character bio Spider-Man doesn’t view her as a bad guy and that she’s one of the most skilled people on earth, Spider-Man isn’t really trying against her but her feats are her own. We know she’s also taken on demons off screen and won(see the level where you go onto face Mr Negative the second time) so it’s not like Spider-Man’s the only superhuman she’s fought.

Alexi's striking still pales in comparison to Vlad;

Clearly you missed me going over how weaker characters have better striking but you would rather compare shockwave size. If that's the case you can rest easy knowing Spider-Man still comes out on top.

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I know some don't like using gameplay however this kind of strength is backed by side mission research stations where it's a plot point that he can do stuff like this. You seem to like calcs(DS section) so I could calc sending someone flying like that and show you it's not better than the Shocker feat but it's unnecessary since no matter how you spin it Spider-Man is outright better than Alucard. Either I pretend the shockwave feat is better but then Spider-Man himself has done better, or he scales above a character who did better.

...and Alucard fought himalonefor several minutes. I'm not disputing that Spider-Man could hurt Alucard with his punches but the Dhampir has clearly taken better and kept fighting fine, he's not getting KO'd before landing the one hit he needs. On that;

Doesn’t matter if you think he’s fought better than Spider-Man has fought or better than Spider-Man himself, it’s wrong. Spider-Man is more than a match for Alucard and despite being shown to be way stronger than his teammate beast I have no doubt Spider-Man can take him down. A situation where Spider-Man’s teammates are killed only seals your fate as Spider-Man will not be playing around or taking it easy on you guys, and as I shown Spider-Man taking on foes while outnumbered is nothing new especially given one of you is essentially not at the limits of this scenario like Spider-Man.

Just to double down on the his fought better, he's taken Rhino and despite being much stronger than Spider-Man to point it took him weeks to recover the first time they fought he still managed to win time and time again.

I'd like to point out that it seems to be an instance of Peter also moving in slow motion at the same time, it seems to clearly be a Spidey-sense slow-mo thing rather than statueing an RPG

This is provably incorrect, he himself isn’t in slow motion alongside of the RPG(I think the term statue is over used which is why I didn’t say it).

I don't think it's a disservice to Peter to use his fight against the Sinister villains because it's probably his best showing of speed and agility.

I mean it’s not a bad showing but it isn’t his visually fastest either, the S6 mostly scale off Peter’s speed so it wouldn’t look amazingly fast considering everyone there(maybe save Rhino but he can still tag Peter) is around Spider-Man’s tier of speed.

It does show how ridiculous the idea of a spring razor and some bees overwhelming Spider-Man so much so he’s going to run away rather than deal with the threat accordingly is ridiculous, so thanks for proving my point.

the other is a character moving so fast they're invisible and on both sides of their foe so quickly it's basically instantaneous

I seem to recall Dracula literally wanting to die anyway, and wasn’t putting forth his full effort anyway. This isn’t at all comparable to fighting 5(later six) people at once that all scale to your level of speed. I would even argue Scorpion is potentially faster than Spider-Man which makes the fact he beats him in 1v1s, 2v1s, and held his own in that group impressive(given his method of attack involves a lethal poison that after one strike almost killed Spider-Man). As for scorpions speed he outspeed Spider-Man poisoning him and was the first of the S6 to seriously tag him and allow the others to take advantage of that. Even if you don’t think he’s straight up faster, he’s at a level of speed where Spider sense+ raw speed still has Spider-Man struggling with him. Which is something I wanted to get into, this version of Spider-Man is extremely experienced. From speedsters, to dark energy corruption, life force sucking vampires, alternate universe counterparts and people with reality bending powers Spider-Man has faced a lot.

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Spider-Man’s been around the block, and his experience is extremely diversified from his 9 years(as of Miles morales’ game) being Spider-Man. He’s just faced so many different manners of threats and managed to come out on top and better than before, which includes more skilled opponents than himself or faster/stronger opponents. I don’t want this to be under emphasized because it’s the reason why he can come into a fight outnumbered, outmatched, and weakened but still pull through alongside his spider sense.

He may not have the publication history of beast or his 616 counterpart but he’s quite well at what he does and I do think he can make it through here.

I know you've used this asthisas proof Peter is FTE but seem to ignore the last line;

he'd just managed to hide above them after dodging their gunfire, nothing about it would lead us to believe he's moved fast enough to be effectively invisible in the same vein as Alucard

You seem to be misunderstanding the situation, they fire at Spider-Man he dodged and moved up and they don’t know where he moved.

The logical deduction here is that couldn’t see where he moved because of his speed. This isn’t 1048 Spider-Man but his 616 counterpart but it’s a very good way to help you picture what I mean.

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Likewise, these “idiots“ didn’t look up but that was because they couldn’t process his speed and he moved FTE to them. The same thing is being described for Insomniac Spider-Man, where he’s been shot at and he moved upwards faster than they can see and was sticking to the ceiling afterwards.

In other words

it would lead us to believe he's moved fast enough to be effectively invisible in the same vein as Alucard

This is the case.

At the point these two face off Alucard has a oneshot weapon from your teammates so not a likely scenario.

Very doubtful, you failed to defend your bees distraction so Spider-Man is going to be on Alucard like white on rice from the get go. And my 5 second defense eclipses your “one shot weapons” (same gear defended against Odin force Thor's lightning) so Spider-Man will not be one shot by Alucard, especially since it will only activate when attacked by something Spider-Man can’t avoid and would be lethal.

Not sustained webs if Peter could actually land enough to cocoon Alucard, sure. But the regular webs he uses in a fight? Absolutely.

I mean he uses both, but agreeable. If webbed up like taskmaster he could escape, but if webbed up like swarm? The bats would be too big to escape.

The Green Mist of Death

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"You burden me with your insanity. Ten Thousand noble souls extinguished from eternity are too many for my conscience. But one I can bear." - John Aman

Beast:

I'll start this section talking about injuries, as that's really all our opponents have going their way. They know this and as such focused extensively on

The idea that you get to pick the kind of damage your 2 characters with level 3 damage have seems sus, not only were you wrong about the Verdgo not being able to break bones but you act like if it was just cuts its at all minor.

We did not choose the damage inflicted upon us. During our threat there were two gamemasters who voted for level three damage, geek did not specify the type of damage. However, Owie did:

Verdugos' attacks: since they're attacking with claws, not just blunt force, it seems to me that they could hurt all three of the players (at least while PoO is solid). There was no durability given for Slade; obviously he's tough but still it should be addressed. I think the Verdugos would get some hits on each player while the players are fighting their way through the vertigo effect. Ultimately the players would win, but I'm going with level 3 damage to each ("stab wounds"), with Slade being on the higher end of that--Spidey's the fastest and would avoid damage the most easily, Prince has his mist form, but Slade isn't as fast as Pete and lacks the special defense of PoO (or DS's normal armor), plus he's already injured.

- Owie Post #472 Main Thread

We received level 3 damage ("stab wounds") because of the claws the Verdugos' were attacking with. We are not the ones picking and choosing the definition of our level 3 damage here, you are.

I dont know if they just dont expect us to read the scans or what...but in the very scan Oraphan provided they are clear about letting the contestants heal and about not wanting them to die quick because thats less fun.

So the way Orphan made it sound "being beat to the verge of death over and over again and still forced to fight" seems to leave out they were giving time to heal, explicitly said in the very scan he provided...If I was one of the voters, id wonder if Orphan tried to trick me.

Let's talk about this, we're clearly shown the immortal weapons being in poor condition even going into their fights based on the very first scans of Danny. Note him going into the fight with clearly broken bones and unhealed injuries. The healing was to keep them alive, not to let them fight in peak condition. In fact Danny even explicitly states:

"I know there's a way out of here. There has to be. I could probably think of one, if I had any time to recover from these relentless challenges. To give my chi time to heal my mind as well as my--"

It's extremely clear that the Immortal Weapons were kept in an extremely poor condition to the point where Danny was struggling to string thoughts together outside of "survive". They were able to heal just enough to not die, but even when they were thrown into their next fights they still had what would be considered level 3 injuries. And they did this for so long that time blurred together. In fact it's so clear that any voter who actually read the scans posted would clearly understand the situation, which makes it bizarre that you thought cherry picking a few scans from the numerous posted in an attempt to construct an alternate narrative would work.

I feel Watcher covered the traps pretty clearly and the numerous shortcomings of that plan. There were no feats shown for the speed of the spring razor traps, which makes them a complete non-factor to characters with supersonic reactions.

As to Beast's physicals:

Agility: I've shown people John scales to dance around hundreds of bullets and arrows effortlessly at short range while not a peak performance. I've also shown John explicitly not being tagged a single time by 1000 different spears thrust into a position where he has no room to truly dodge. And this is when it was impossible for him to become intangible. Suffice it to say he's more than agile enough to match up here.

AP: You have to be able to tag John first to even get to his durability, but the immortal weapons he at the very least scales to no sell multi-floor busting strikes. So Beast's not putting him down.

Durability: Taking attacks that bust walls and concrete is nowhere near enough to withstand John's strikes. As referenced in the above section Davos took no damage from his and Danny's clash. And John took him down in a few hits.

Now:

Lets talk about people beast has fought that are quite frankly better than the injured warriors.

Id like to compare him against Nightcrawler.

lmao.

In what world is a teleporter comparable to an intangible fighter? I don't see any basis of comparison here or how it will help your case, but you're allowed to do whatever you want.

So a pretty good comparison to Orphan, tho id think the interstellar competition is more impressive because its aa bunch of races of aliens.

Except for the fact that the tournament between the seven cities is an interdimensional tournament full of characters explicitly equal to Iron Fist... Compared to what? A menagerie of featless aliens swordsmen? And the fact that it's still a completely baseless comparison considering the differences in both their powerset and skill? Let's look at how Nightcrawler's matched up against actual fighters with feats. We've seen an explicitly morals off Nightcrawler be crushed by Sabertooth, utilizing his teleportation far more offensively than he did against Beast. Sabertooth of course being someone Danny has beaten (1,2,3) multiple times over the years through skill. We've also been told Wolverine consistently beats Nightcrawler in training, while Danny and Wolverine have fought seriously once with Danny never getting tagged and tossing Wolverine out a window.

I'd also point out that the scan you showed for Beast fighting Nightcrawler is clearly a morals off Beast, and that the normal one couldn't even count how quickly Nightcrawler was punching Wolverine. Which is an exceptionally poor look, when your cherrypicked example that doesn't fit the situation at all also relies on a version of your character not in this battle.

With the (in-limits) durability showings you've posted for Beast a single strike from John would put him down, while you're relying entirely on traps you failed to show any feats for beyond turning them into adamantium and relying on that.

Alucard:

The gamemasters have given their explicit ruling on how they want to rule plasmids during this scenario. As such there's no point in touching on it other than to reiterate said ruling:

for the purposes of the Games, injecting the plasmid for the first time won't cause anything but temporary pain.

Alright now let's get into the rest of your arguments.

Nothing really to add here, you completely misrepresented what was happening on panel given it was confirmed they were given enough time to heal between fights. Even if that weren't true PoO is like the only fighter who looks completely rested;

Level 0 PoO here vs Actual Level 3 Cobra

...so as it stands you've provided no evidence to support the Prince being able to fight with notable injuries let alone multiple broken limbs/serious stab wounds.

I already addressed d4b's poor attempt at misconstruing the kind of feat the 8th City was for the Immortal Weapons. But let's take a moment to talk about the idiocy of comparing the wounds between them. Notice how it's explicitly stated in the scans I posted that Danny usually follows Fat Cobra:

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Now look at the scans of the Immortal Weapons again:

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Notice how Danny is literally fighting or being thrown back into his cell during that very moment? Fat Cobra is the fighter who most recently fought, it's only natural his injuries are the most prominent. Unless your argument is that fighting endlessly for what could have been centuries did no damage to the Prince of Orphans when those same fights consistently inflicted level 3 and 4 damage on Fat Cobra and Iron Fist. In which case I'd question if you were sane in the head and how you possibly hope to put someone with that level of durability down in 10 seconds or less. Of course I'd be disqualified for arguing John that durable but if you think you can put down someone that durable in 10 seconds (especially with Danny having no sold that explosion I posted in my first post) you're way way over limits.

As has also been covered you do not get to pick what injuries you have. As outlined in PoO's section Level 3 damage explicitly means Broken Limbs/Stab wounds. Not specifically one kind and certainly not the one you feel is less impactful.

I feel the need to post this again, even though I already posted the reasoning behind our level 3 damage being stab wounds based on the vote of a gamemaster. The reason I'm posting this again is to point out the double standard here, our opponents arbitrarily decided to choose wounds that make the situation more advantageous to them, ignoring the judgements of the gamemasters, and then attempt to portray the New Warriors as the ones who are picking and choosing the severity of the wounds.

With the injuries finally being fully cleared up, let's move onto the bizarre and inconsistent speed arguments.

Some assault rifle fire can move at those (Mach 3) speeds but there's nothing in that scan to suggest PoO can move even a fraction that fast. Consider a character that reacts to a Mach 3 projectile, lets say fired from 10 meters away, by moving their head an inch to the right. Are they capable of operating and moving at speeds three times the speed of sound?

No!

While they clearly had some awareness of the danger the distance they actually moved was far far less than the projectile did in the same timeframe. You can still infer some speed from that showing but it's blatantly obvious that the character did not move nearly as fast as the bullet. This is an essential thing to consider when you keep posting this scan to argue PoO is at the tourney limits; because he doesn't just move slower than the bullet, he doesn't move at all. All you can prove from this feat is that PoO was able to think in the span of time it took for those bullets to reach him, which is obviously considerably worse than if he had even managed to move an inch like that hypothetical character above.

As it currently stands all you've proven is that PoO can think but not move in the span of time it takes a bullet to cross a bridge. Against an essentially living one that can move all of his limbs at that speed as well as think it's clear he's vastly outmatched.

So your argument here is despite John explicitly reacting to Mach 3 projectiles after they'd been fired and could cover less than 10 meters, he'd be unable to react to Alucard covering the same 10 meters? None of what you said in this entire paragraph actually matters in the least. The feat is a character reacting to a projectile at the speed limit, that's the limit of the tournament, Mach 3 Reaction and Combat Speed. To argue that you've got faster reactions or combat speed is explicitly admitting you consider yourself over the limits.

It is kind of amusing that you're so confident in his "at limit reactions" yet you immediately try to scale him to a character with half a century of high ends, but okay.

Oh wow, the character with 41 appearances (7 of which cannot be used due to being an alternate universe) has only a few feats of his own? Especially when he is a side character at best in every one of those appearances save two? And his main style of combat is limited in parts (5 seconds max) and outright banned in others (his main offense is literally disintegrating people from the inside out). Of course there's going to need to be some scaling, the validity of which I established and you didn't even try to contest.

It isn't relevant as the Secret Avengers showing is extremely explicit Mach 3 reactions which are at the cap of this tournament, but let's break down your grievances with the four posted Iron Fist speed feats. For the voter's sake I will post the scan in question, then your interpretation of the feat in quotes and then my response to that interpretation below. I would also point out that I did not argue a single one of these feats ever as 'bullet-timing' something that BH spends the vast majority of this section attempting to debunk.

Feat #1: Danny Rand and Orson Randall dodge hundreds of arrows and bullets fired at close proximity without being tagged

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Not a single part of this can be debated as bullet timing given we have no proof they weren't reacting to the marksmen rather than the bullets. A high level instance of aim dodging to be sure, but still aim dodging.

There are dozens of both archers and gunners firing on Danny and Orson who are in a constrained space moving towards their attackers. And you're trying to portray this feat as them moving slower than the bullets themselves? While both characters are explicitly noted to be tired and still aren't being tagged?

Feat #2: Danny KOs a gunman after he pulls the trigger but before the gun fires

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Awesome feat, not bullet timing. Rand was already in motion prior to the trigger pull and at best he's outpacing the firing mechanism inside the gun, not the muzzle velocity of a bullet that was never fired.

Yes... The intention is to take the timing for the gun's firing mechanism for the feat, it's explicitly stated no bullet is fired. As to what that timeframe is, it's between 1/200th and 1/1000th of a second (based on the spring weight in the semi-automatic pistol), in which time Danny jumps and kicks to the point the gun cannot fire. Multiple movements which even at the most conservative give supersonic speed.

I don't even know how you got that I was arguing this as a bullet timing feat considering a bullet was never fired...

Feat #3: Danny catches a bullet fired point blank range before it can strike Brenda's head

We see Danny's eye immediately before the gun is fired, the gun firing without context, the bullet stopped, then Danny's final position. You have no evidence to support him just standing there until after the gun is fired and as such can't prove he didn't make it to Brenda prior or as she pulled the trigger. Without the definitive proof of /1. Gun fires 2. The character moves/ it's not provably bullet timing at all.

Again, the impressive part here is just Danny catching the bullet within the timeframe... Congratulations once again on debunking an argument I never made in the first place.

Feat #4: Danny punches an enemy fast enough to tag him over a dozen time before he can react

Awesome feat and indicative of blur speed if we take it at face value. Given I already showed you mook vampires moving and fighting atthose speeds (minimum) I think you know this doesn't cut the mustard.

Clearly you misunderstood the context which this feat has behind it... This is an opponent shown already capable at keeping up with Danny's casual bullet timing speeds, that only continued to grow stronger. Danny then blitzed this monster over a dozen times. The fault for your misunderstanding of the scan falls on the english language here, as the "fast enough to tag him" plaudit applies to the enemy with him being a pronoun for Danny himself here. This misconception should have been cleared up, however, by the inclusion of the monster tagging Danny in the imgur album.

I wouldlovefor you to show me Prince of Orphans breaking the sound barrier. Given you're arguing he's Mach 3 and he has far more feats than Alucards roughly 12 minutes of fighting this should be trivial.

Again not sure where you're getting the misconception that John has anywhere near the number of feats as Alucard... Especially in regards to an aspect of his combat style that usually is irrelevant given his intangibility.

Given there's other comparisons like the fact even (compared to Alucard, slow) Dracula blitzed Trevor I'm going to assume this claim was just an error.

Interesting that you claim Dracula (a character explicitly singled out by Geek as above the limits) is slow compared to Alucard. In fact you argued again for him blitzing ("the hell out of") Dracula when talking to Maalik. This is obviously up to the voters to take into consideration however they wish. Just note that Buildhare is scaling his character not just to an above limits character, but above them in speed. I'd also like to remind voters that context is on the debater to provide here, he provided no context for a possible extenuating circumstance allowing Alucard to scale above an over-limits character and should be judged as such.

Crossing hundreds of meters in an instant, appearing as a flash of crimson light, moving so fast the actual cut doesn't happen until a second after it's been done;

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...is more than enough to be obviously a tier beyond what PoO is capable of. There's no need to waffle on about creating sonic booms or shockwaves when your character is clearly incapable of even matching those preliminary elements of the feat.

The timing argument here really doesn't help you. Covering the roughly 50 meters between him and the monster in over a second is a really poor showing. The entire fight was linked in my first post if any voter wants to go back and see how poor the showing is if you start taking the literal timings shown. I personally have Alucard far faster than the very subsonic speeds that you get from going down this argument, but if you want to argue your character as both faster than the limits and also unable to cover 50m in a second that's your own choice.

For starters it'd help if you actually provided the scan of him no selling it rather than leaving us to take your word for it. Given his powerset without proof we may as well assume he turned to mist. Regardless this doesn't have a whole lot to do with blunt force trauma or being cut by adamantium so it's not overly helpful here. As I've shown in the sections centred on Spider-Man, Alucard is capable of tunnelling through castle walls without resistance so tearing your head off is an absolute non-issue if PoO is solid.

Context. Anyways it's very telling here that you entirely ignore the Danny/Davos feat considering it's both entirely striking in nature and leagues above anything you've shown for Alucard. I'll drop it one more time for the voters. Neither you nor d4b ever contested John scaling above the other immortal weapons, so his chi enhanced defenses should be at least comparable.

Alright let's take a look at these scenarios you've concocted and break down the legitimacy of each one.

1. John fails to react to the trap, he dies.

Ok well we can disregard this one right off the bat, the springrazors are both incredibly telegraphed and have had zero relevant speed feats posted for them, there is a 0% chance that John can't react to them.

2. John reacts to the trap but keeps some of his body tangible to attack the person he can see (Beast), Alucard rips him apart from behind on the initial blitz, he dies.

3. John reacts to the trap but goes entirely intangible. He's effectively BFR'd himself for 5 seconds and has created exactly the staggered 2v1 on Deathstroke we were looking for, running out of intangibility a full 5 seconds before Spider-Man can even begin to help, he dies.

I'll address the two of these because of the erroneous assumption that I somehow need to choose between being fully intangible or partially intangible. No such rule exists, the only rule is that intangibility can be used for 5 seconds and then needs to be recharged. Even if we weren't able to see both combatants by the word of the Gamemasters, there is nothing stopping John from going completely intangible to dodge the featless springrazors and then turning partially tangible within those same five seconds to attack the approaching Alucard.

Your speed arguments are all over the place from arguing yourself over limits to debunking arguments I never even made, you have no skill feats even close to John's level, you have no durability showings on the level of Davos who John took down in a few hits, and you don't even have the offense to take down someone on Davos' level. Alucard is massively outclassed here and has no knowledge. Immediately after attempting to bullrush John he punches mist and then gets put down in a single hit.

No Caption Provided

Deathstroke

I don't have a fancy passive agressive copy-pasta sadly.

Concerning injuries and traps

.

Verdugos' attacks: since they're attacking with claws, not just blunt force, it seems to me that they could hurt all three of the players (at least while PoO is solid). There was no durability given for Slade; obviously he's tough but still it should be addressed. I think the Verdugos would get some hits on each player while the players are fighting their way through the vertigo effect. Ultimately the players would win, but I'm going with level 3 damage to each ("stab wounds"), with Slade being on the higher end of that--Spidey's the fastest and would avoid damage the most easily, Prince has his mist form, but Slade isn't as fast as Pete and lacks the special defense of PoO (or DS's normal armor), plus he's already injured.

- Owie, a game-master voting for level 3 damage explicitly with stab type wounds. Our opponents attempts at shoehorning "broken bones" in for our injuries makes sense when they need to rely on us being much slower than usual in order for this shoddy attempt at an ambush to have any semblance of success. I also asked professorrespect and his opinion was that it would be mixed but mostly stab/slash type wounds.

Unfortunately for them, with even mostly stab-type wounds, Slade's speed isn't going to be impact that much, so your plan still falls completely flat on multiple fronts. Even allowing for the assumption that hes slightly hampered, his reactions are still more than enough to deal with the current battle, as I'll expand on later in the post. Slade has a few feats of fighting injured for example, taking on the teen titans during the teen titans east storyline, fighting multiple titans for multiple issues without much of a break after getting stabbed in the chest. He also has according to wintergreen he took down half an army with a shot lung, two broken arms and the bones in his fingers shattered (DS vol 1 #7). He also has feats such as fighting another version of himself for hours receiving multiple slash wounds on his arm and body for example, being noted to be healing as hes fighting. He has more feats from wolfman's and priests' runs but that should suffice to establish his level of endurance.

Lets assume that instead of being a casual bullet timer, the injuries make him just a bullet timer or bullet timer level with effort, that's still plenty fast enough here given Slade only has to react to the initial attack and he has 2 other guys here helping him. Which shouldn't be hard again given there is no stealth element here for yall.

Concerning the traps, I believe Watcher covered that front pretty excellently enough. But I'll reiterate myself. Our opponent showed explicitly that he is using Vietnam era guerrilla warfare traps that for one, do not even mesh well with the environment at hand. I'll ask the voters to consider how ridiculous it is to think that Slade Wilson, who was stated and shown multiple times to the peer or superior to batman in tactical intelligence, would fall for these traps.

Oh yeah, he was also literally in the freaking VIETNAM WAR.

https://imgur.com/a/v0HIOPx

The second scan details his origin written by Wolfman in tales of the teen titans 44 which I believe is pre-crisis. But the first scan is from deathstroke vol 1 #1 also written by Wolfman which confirms his origin remains the same. Slade fought in the same war in which these traps were used, so this should put to bed the notion that even if he were alone here that he'd fall for them. Thankfully, Slade ISN'T alone and as shown by Watcher Spiderman alone would be enough to prevent us from being caught in these traps. And if Peter doesn't, Slade with his experience would recognize any potential threat in front of us regardless.

As for the adamantium traps, speed was never established and adamantium is a heavy substance so It's safe to argue that we'll evade them just fine.

Beast

Not much to say on this front as not much was offered.

Beast is essentially relying on slade having no speed here but as covered before, his endurance is fine enough and Spiderman will warn us if all else fails.

Lets look at the scan you gave for Slade dodging some bullets with a bullet leg wound.

So he rolls 5 feet on the floor, doesnt seem agile at all anymore rolling on the floor like that...I dont think that proves he can get away from a omnidirectional adamantium spring razor when he haas much more severe injuries.

Notice how you conveniently left off the part where he later also avoids bullets doing flips and acrobatics in the process. The point isn't to demonstrate his speed here because it very well might not be true bullet timing, but his agility is still intact despite his leg having a hole shot through it. I'm not arguing whether Beast is agile because he clearly is, however, Slade is plenty agile himself and more than enough to avoid any traps if he has to. But as proven above, he won't have to use his agility as there is no chance any our team actually falls for one.

And then the very next scan a human gets the jump on him, stating that he has Slade dead to rights becuase of the injury... That suggests Slade could not run or resist.

He got the jump on him while he was on the ground fixing his wound, but also we literally see Slade avoid gun fire, running and resisting in the very next panels, so clearly he wasn't correct.

Onto your stats.

Lets talk about people beast has fought that are quite frankly better than the injured warriors.

AP. No one here argued they could tank Beasts claws they just claimed he might not use them..

I'm not arguing that Slade can tank Beasts claws or that he can't use them. I did however state correctly that Slade has an advantage here with the lightsaber giving him greater range on top of his superior reactions to Beast. Quite frankly the instances you provided don't seem like clear cut bullet timing, and as I'm about to establish further in the next section, slade actually is a bullet timer with multiple feats proving such. So Slade being as fast (if you want to say so due to injuries) if not arguably faster with a reach advantage (mind you and a weapon that could very well one shot Beast) spells doom for Hank if they did fight 1 on 1.

Deathstoke: Is a formidable opponent, but it think Spiral (a reoccurring X-man villain) is better.

First off she has 6 arms and she can bullet time with all of them. ^Those shots are fired by Domino.

Well having multiple arms would actually make it easier to deflect bullets. But that's not something DS hasn't done regardless. Note that DS was injured in the second scan.

Under Priest DS was actually noted to be faster than a Power Girl, who he wrote casually blocking bullets. So unfortunately, the instance provided doesn't cut it as far as substantiating a claim like this

Beast getting the better of a teleporting, 6 armed, bullet timing swordsman shows that Beast could best even a fresh Slade let alone one so severely injured, where beast has prepped the Battleground.

Alucard

This in a post where you haveonespeed feat that's actually Slade himself, despite Deathstroke having nearly half a century of his own feats to draw on. Suss. To start with Wilsons sole showing;

I didn't anticipate the lowballing on your end. But sure I'll post more, I apologize for being less than thorough in my initial post as-well.

Outsiders v3 #22 he tells Roy harper to shoot at him, letting him get a shot and then dodges the bullets from a small distance away.

Titans #25 & Outsiders v3 #29

First scan he moves himself and luthor under a bullet after the assassin fires from almost point blank range. Second scan he dodges a crap ton of bullets after they start firing from a seated position and then kills them in the same motion

Gun fires from point blank range and Slade moves fast enough to get behind her before she can realize

Also recall that I mentioned DS was noted to be faster than Cassandra Cain. This was under Gabrych who took over the last arc of Batgirl volume 1. He also had Batgirl perform these bullet timing feats and still believed DS was faster than her.

Most writers and all good writers of Deathstroke had him as a bullet timer if not a casual one. Some wrote him as a bulky rambo type but for example priest, winnick (who wrote a few of the above instances), johns etc stayed true to the lightning fast mercenary that Wolfman created. Who was specifically noted to have superhuman reaction speeds since his introduction.

Think this should suffice.

..this still clearly requires addressing. In the scan you presented Slade crouches in the time it takes a bullet to reach him. The gun is clearly a revolver and as such we're looking at muzzle velocities between about240 m/sto above400 m/s if we pretend its a hand cannon and not the old west gun it looks like. For reference the speed of sound is just below350 m/s. To summarize the feat we see him dodge a bullet that's moving somewhere between two thirds the speed of sound or marginally above it, by crouching just under the distance the bullet travels. This is a bonafide instance of bullet timing but as not all bullets are created equal and even generous interpretations of this feat would only grant Slade Mach 1 reactions (and just reactions, because all he did was duck, not fight) it doesn't fit at all with the portrait you're trying to paint of a Mach 3 speedster.

You can't really make an assumption either way, regardless I've provided more than enough feats of Slade's casual bullet timing from multiple different models and makes of guns. I never stated he was a mach 3 speedster, I stated that the limits for this tourney in terms of reactions are casual bullet timing, something that Slade has demonstrated. Nothing more nothing less. Honestly this wall of text is ridiculous.

Cassandra's showings are undoubtedly impressive but critically they're Cassandra's alone. A single instance of self doubt doesn't categorically prove her inferiority to Deathstroke (and it certainly sounds like self doubt given she makes out she's worse at absolutely everything) especially when he seems to lack feats even close to what she did there. It's even harder to take seriously when they've actually fought before and if anything Cass was winning, landing several hits and disarming Slade while dodging his attempts to shoot her.

Provided feats for Cassandra from the same writer who wrote the statement. Speed is debatable, she might certainly have more numerous Bullet timing feats, however she is absolutely right about in universe Slade's reputation for having superhuman reactions, being much stronger and more intelligent than her. Slade's stats in those regards is something most superheroes and villains alike would know. It isn't just "self doubt."

Also that instance was written by Devin Grayson not Gabrych. But yes Grayson did have Cass seemingly have the upper hand that fight, but Slade also beat the hell out of Nightwing in that run who has impressive bullet timing feats of his own. Grabrych's version of Slade vs Cassie was more even in regards to speed, although he noted that Slade was toying with her as they both reacted to each others attacks.

I will address one feat though because even if we did believe Slade was able to recreate her otherwise superior feats her instance of moving FTE is still not on Alucard's level. In the same scan we see her moving as a blur we get this tidbit from an overweight mob boss;

...confirming that the showing wasn't truly FTE as she was seen in action. At best we can infer blur level combat speed which as established is not impressive even amonglower tier vampires.That's assuming it wasn't just a stylistic choice from the artist to present her as being unstoppable.

I never said Slade could recreate that feat, even though I showed an instance above similar. Just that he has reactions fast enough to deal with someone who has a similar feat, if I wasn't clear. Regardless, this is actually ridiculous. He didn't have to react to the attack itself to see the aftermath. Like, seriously?

Once again you seem to be under the impression this is a fair fight where you need to be completely outclassed, rather than the flustercluck fish in a barrel situation you've got yourself stuck in. Given the already well explained external factors (Injury, Traps, Surprise) Alucard could be only as fast as Deathstroke and still pull off the ambush.

Traps aren't an issue and you're in view in 10 meters, unfortunately there is no surprise. Unless the injuries are broken leg bones which I doubt, Slade's speed isn't going to be impacted enough that he can't react here.

Of the feats you've presented thus far in the games the vast majority are aim dodging. The only one that clearly meets the criteria for bullet timing is the one I broke down above and it's still obviously on the lower tier for that kind of feat. Given he's basically 1 from 6 for legitimate bullet timing feats you've presented for threats, I think "the odd bullet here and there" comment was generous if anything. If you're going to be shy about posting feats for you character I'll do it for you;

Hilarious attempt but it falls short on the very first attempt.

Slade rushes an armoured jeep and somersaults onto it while avoiding getting shot. Given we don't see him react to a single bullet after it's been fired it's probably just aim dodging.

Its like you didn't even look at the scan. You can't make this up. If looking at pictures is hard I'll zoom in for you. This is from new teen titans.

No Caption Provided

First we see the gun fired in one panel AS SLADE IS RUNNING TO THE VEHICLE, three bullets, note bullet trails under the "pow pow" side effect. They seem to also be heading for slade himself as-well.

No Caption Provided

Then we see this, SLADE JUMPED OVER the three bullets. But you still had the gull to say this?

Given we don't see him react to a single bullet after it's been fired

????????? You must have been hoping the voters were stupid and didn't actually read the scans you posted. Does this not fulfill your "see the shot first and then see the dodge" requirement?

Same thing again, this time with a lone gunman armed with a shotgun. Good time to point out that Slade flees rather than try to rush and blitz the guy head on, something he should've done easily if he was at tourney speed limits.

Says who? In this instance from DS vol 1 #6 Slade didn't even want to fight or kill this person. He was on a separate job and was attacked.

The best of the three, Slade slashes three arrows out of the air from close range. The added flavour of completely outclassing Oliver is also nice.

Not even close to the best feat out of the ones you posted, the first one seeing slade casually vault over semi-auto gun fire is much, much more impressive. The second instance may or may not be aim dodging, regardless demonstrates Slade's impressive acrobatic ability and agility.

o looking at those three showings plus theoneyou gave in your post we are faced with a character who is capable of avoiding the aim of marksman with fancy acrobatics, reacting to something potentially moving at the speed of sound as well as casual arrow timing. Every last one of those attributes also apply to Trevor Belmont (Aim dodging,Speed of Sound,Arrow timing) a character definitively below your opponent here. I'd challenge anyone to try and imagine Slade in this scene;

...wherein Alucard finally faces his father alone, cuts loose and is able to (temporarily) blitz the hell out of him.

Nice try.

But yes, I absolutely can imagine Slade in this scene reacting to Alucards attack given his reflexes. I'm not sure how you extrapolate any instance you've posted thus far to being mach 3, or three times the speed of sound, but even if you were, Slade reacting to machine gun fire and the numerous other bullet timing instances I've shown should establish his reactions as enough here.

Alucard can just keep doing it back to back;

...so it's not like Deathstroke enduring being punched through one wall changes the current physical disparity. Notably though what I actually showed you wasn't wall busting it was Alucard bullrushing his dad through an entire section of the castle. That's tiers better than just wall busting as they were in the castle stone for several seconds and we know exactly how fast Alucard can move at this point. You tried to prove Slade could take a hit with an instance of him being lightly cratered into the ground, when Alucard would have had him 10 or so meters into the earth based on the showing above. Alucard has cracked stone just by moving;

I like how you conveniently ignore that I posted two instances of him tanking casual wall busting damage. One of which was a blow from Powergirl who would be close to the limits in terms of strength and the other was from a weapon similar to Batman's power gauntlets. Not only did the blow from the gauntlets throw slade through a wall but he took repeated attacks to his face from them, which THEN proceeded to crater the ground below him.

Regardless, the initial attack isn't going to work, and more likely than not you'll have to deal with the immediate counterattack from my team. Also, trying to bullrush attack Slade in the same manner just seems foolish because Slade can react to you and has a weapon that could cut you in half like butter or impale you.

Your link doesn't work. But if it did based upon your description I still wouldn't credit it any higher than continuous wall busting. Tiers better would be on and above building level which frankly none of your feats seem to be indicative of. I believe Watcher's initial description of the feats hold up here. Slade won't even have to worry about it for the most part as

.and even as a wolf retains his great strength, popping a vampire inside his armour like a grape. So regardless of whether it's by getting his head plucked off or his throat ripped out Alucard will be able to deal with an unarmoured DS's durability without much fanfare.

Sadly you won't. Slade is more than fast enough to react to your initial bull-rush especially given the warning coming from Peter once we discover the traps. After that you have to deal with the immediate attack from all three of us, which means you die pretty fast.

I don't believe our opponent disagreed with the lightsaber being able to hurt Alucard here so Slade also has the reach advantage against him on top of being fast enough to react to his attacks AND having the numbers advantage.

Finale

  • This is our fight to win, you’re in a 3v1 from the get go with Alucard getting jumped by Spider-Man, who by YOUR own words is a rival to Alucard. Spider-Man can more than match you or surpass you, what are you going to do when he has back up in the form of Deathstroke and Prince of Orphans himself? At best Beast jumps in before you’re defeated(still seriously hurt) but either of my teammates could take on Beast or straight jump him while Spider-Man finishes off the big threat Alucard.
  • Your bees? Aren’t cutting it, they get webbed up kinda like Spider-Man has already done to a very similar opponent in the past.
  • You clearly didn’t do research because those bees effected an entirely different armor than what you shown, do better next time.
  • Your while strategic plan is built around solo’ing two of my teammates in ten seconds before I finish with the bees, even if I pretend the bees would distract me for ten seconds before vanishing so what? What if you can’t take them out in 10 seconds? What if it takes 15? Spider-Man would easily have joined the fight and turned the tide in our favor, and once again beast refuses to join till a opportune time (based on what you say, when Spider-Man is alone) so if things don’t go your way he would either have to flee or get jumped.
  • Beast wasn’t portrayed to be at the limits, wall level durability feats are essentially one shot material for Spider-Man.
  • Beast has no counters to a suspension matrix, web incap or a combination of the two.
  • Spider-Man can more than deal with the injuries he has, as you two have practically conceded by this point.
  • Spider-Man has dealt with being outnumbered, and still pulled through against opponents stronger than he is and with much more diverse power sets than here. This shouldn’t be impossible to pull through even in a worst case scenario
  • This ambush may straight be impossible as due to the spider sense I would sense your intentions before arriving at the alter, the alter has obvious traps on it that would be sensed by Spider-Man or noticed by someone as inquisitive Deathstroke. But even if so you guys admitted Spider-Man would avoid it no matter what so this isn’t even an issue for me.
  • Alucard has 0 knowledge of the traps, and could easily end up getting hit by them.
  • I’m not seeing how you guys can win this, despite trying to ambush us I think this matchup favors us. Spider-Man can more than take either you guys solo, or together due to his experience, spider sense, willpower, gear, and stats.
  • The New Warriors are not the ones here attempting to portray their damage as something that it isn't. There was specification from a gamemaster as to the type of damage inflicted. Death4Bunnies and Buildhare instead are portraying the wounds suffered in the way that best benefits them as opposed to what was stated by the Gamemasters.
  • The adamantium spring razor traps pose no threat to the Prince of Orphans, they are extremely telegraphed and can be dodged easily with his mist form.
  • There is no stealth going on in this battle, the gamemasters explicitly stated both of our opponents were in view once they were 10 meters away.
  • The notion that Alucard can somehow handle both the Prince of Orphans and Deathstroke within 10 seconds unarmed is completely nonsensical.
  • Alucard's speed was scaled multiple times to a character explicitly stated as above limits, leaving him either barely above supersonic or above limits. Neither of which is relevant to this fight.
  • Beast does not fair much better, the comparison of the Prince of Orphans to Nightcrawler was ridiculous considering their respective fight histories and powersets. Not to mention the example given of Beast beating Nightcrawler was of an OOC Beast while regular Beast by his own admission cannot keep up with the speed of Nightcrawlers strikes.
  • Neither of our opponents had any counter to the Prince of Orphan's mist being used to grapple and restrain them, nor did they post any durability feats that would allow them to take strikes from someone whose hits took down Davos.
  • The traps don't work out against a team with a top 3 tactician in DC comics who also happened to serve in the same war they were used, AS-WELL as someone with danger sense
  • My [Deathstroke] injuries are mostly if not completely stab/slash type damage, barring his legs being broken Slade should still be atleast close to his usual speed
  • Beast is outmatched here on every front, and has no defense against someone who is either as fast or faster than him with the means to effectively one shot or deal critical damage with one swing of the lightsaber
  • Alucard is hopelessly outmatched here and getting jumped 3v1 to start with
  • His initial attack doesn't work as he lacks the element of surprise as soon as we discover the traps and ya'll become visible in 10 meters
  • All of us possess the means to kill Alucard, and it will be a very one-sided fight without the element of surprise, again, Beast's best option was to leave.
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#43  Edited By geekryan

Voting is open!

@owie@professorrespect

Beast (@death4bunnies) & Alucard (@buildhare) vs. Insomniac Spider-Man (@thewatcherking), Prince of Orphans (@naronu), Deathstroke (@maalik)

Remember:

Voting can only be done by non-participants and the Gamemasters themselves. In order to avoid having alts voting, each voter is required to have at least 500 posts on CV. Gamemasters have the final say on whether a vote is allowed or not. Each vote must be explained to some degree, and votes based on obvious bias (personal or character) will not be counted.

Vote for who dies and if the victors live with no damage or some damage (minor, moderate, severe). Normally, an ambush does not need to result in a death, but since both sides are arguing this battle as to the death and escape wasn't really discussed, one side will die.

Voting will be open for 2 days and end on Thursday. The Gamemasters will deliberate and post the results afterwards, assigning damage based on the number of votes that each character has received and the average level of damage that was assigned to them from each vote.

Some tags:

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#44  Edited By higherpower  Moderator

'Twas a rather entertaining debate. I'm voting for The New Warriors with no further damage. (They can aggravate existing wounds though).

At the end of the day this is still a 3v2, and I think Beast is the weakest overall character here. Which tips the scales of balance greatly in the Warriors' favor, considering his six-decade old machinations acting as traps are almost a non-factor due to being slow, and not heavily disguised. (Cloaking them would've seemed like a no-brainer, but I guess he either didn't think of it or didn't have a way to do it).

Ambushes bank on the element of surprise, and on the other hand, the opening attack from Alucard was a swarm of bees, that were pretty succinctly refuted by Watcher with mirroring examples of Spider-Man dealing with them. And also the fact that the entire potency and threat of the bees came from buildhare scaling them to the wrong kind of mech.

So... that levels the playing field. In an open confrontation I can't see Alucard winning, because Beast starts off hiding and it was confirmed earlier that him and Alucard are coming from different sides of the map. He's pretty strong but I don't think the teams injuries would impede them to the point where they'd take any more damage when it's functionally gonna be at least 2v1 at any given moment and whoever is fighting Beast solo or not is gonna beat him.

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#45  Edited By ProfessorRespect

First off, the weird feat-scaling of the duo where they were asking for Slade feats while he had a uber specific injury in this context is really silly and really shouldn't be used as a debating tactic at all. There's a difference between realism and "where's the feats with him with x number of broken bones" mindset that just rubbed me off the wrong way. It's so specific that even they know that it's a unrealistic aim. You might as well ask for Spider-Man feats with him having a broken elbow or something. It's rubbish reasoning in general and you should've known better.

But all in all, this was a pretty hotly contested debate. D4B was the obvious weak link here in terms of formatting and actual argumentation throughout, but I think he was used here more so as a sidekick to Build's argumentation, hanging around in the background. Build's counters were very good, focusing around the trio's lack of definitive stats in comparison to what they were scaling around in the first place. In response, the lads do a bit of a debating misnomer and throw in tons of new feats for their last post, which tells me that this did mentally get to them a lot in the end. It would be unfair to then grade the duo downwards from this fact.

Didn't buy that the traps would be a gamechanger but at the same time, I also have to consider the fact that they could easily be activated mid-fight or at any point beyond the initial encounter/attempt due to the sheer number of them set up here. Maybe one could be activated unknowingly in the heat of combat or whatnot, given the fact that D4B does at least say that these were paired up with the duo attacking and with branches scattered around. I can see the less mobile not necessary running into the traps like a dumbass, but the potential for one to be triggered just out of the vast majority of them seems reasonable enough for me, especially given the fact that most of the counter-examples were based around the players involved being fully aware and unoccupied to figure out what's going on.

Beast definitely dies through given the lackluster feats provided. Not impressed at all by what was given, really. Maybe that's just because D4B isn't very good at actually debating in the first place but his feats didn't really compare at all to everything else on the table.

I can conclude from all of the argumentation thrown out here that the ambush doesn't really go as well as expected, but at the same time I was unconvinced by the trio that they just easily get through all of the traps, none of the extra gear used here is a issue and everything just goes perfectly in such a manner that everyone gets out unharmed while beating the pair away. It's easy to say that when you bring up isolated instances where they had time to think, plan, and manage said issues, but another to say that when not in the best of shape (as build did bring up, even stab wounds are going to hinder somewhat, even if some of them had functioned with similar or worse injuries as presented by the trio) but Orphans was the most limited when it came to just overall presentation despite what was on the table in the first place.

I believe that Build's points lead me to believe that he'd handle Spidey and Orphans if it came to a brawl, through he'd likely get overwhelmed by all three for obvious reasons. D4B dies, naronu dies as well. Build ultimately dies as Beast is nearly a non-factor here by the argumentation presented and the superior numbers gang up on him. Spidey and Slade should be fine but I'd say they could take further damage (Level 1 to 2) from either springing a trap mid fight or just fisticuffs, which considering they argued more or less a brawl as their main strat here is a expected result.

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#46  Edited By geekryan

The way I see it, the New Warriors had one primary advantage: superior numbers. Three against two is always a big advantage in a fight, and they capitalized on that. For Beast and Alucard, their advantages were the element of surprise, and the fact that the New Warriors were all injured to various degrees.

I was convinced that Insomniac Spider-Man could react to the traps and the ambush fine enough. I wasn't convinced that he would be able to warn his teammates in time though, at least about the traps. I do think that the only traps that would be a factor here are the 10 adamantium spring razor traps that Beast set up around the area. While the New Warriors might not set them off right away, in the heat of battle, it is possible that they stumble within range of one and set them off. There's no doubt that these would cause severe damage to whoever is in range, but that could also include Beast and Alucard. I think Beast is intelligent enough to know to stay out of range of his own traps, but he has no way of relaying that to his ally Alucard.

For the ambush itself, the idea was for Beast and Alucard to start 10 meters away, around the corner of the buildings. The specifics of this was never questioned, but asking the GMs about it might have cleared some things up a bit. Nevertheless, I do believe that the New Warriors could react to the ambush and not get taken out right off the bat. But, between the traps and the ambush, things would not be in their favour at the beginning of the battle.

Overall, Build and TWK did the best debating, and at representing their characters' physicals and capabilities. The sections from Naronu, Maalik, and D4B were okay.

How I see the fight going: at least a few of the traps are getting set off by PoO and Deathstroke, who would be injured if not outright killed. PoO could mist in time, but as he is suffering from level 3 damage, it isn't likely that he can react in time AND react to both Alucard and Beast. Same goes for Deathstroke, who is faster than PoO but lacks the intangibility to avoid the damage. If they aren't immediately killed, I don't see them lasting long against Alucard or Beast. I vote that Prince of Orphans and Deathstroke both die. However, I also see them taking down Beast, who is also suffering from level 2 damage and can be one-shot by Prince's Spear or Deathstroke's lightsaber, especially since Beast has no attack option except engaging in CQC. So, I vote that Beast dies as well.

Alucard would have the advantage against Insomniac Spider-Man with level 2 damage. I was convinced that Peter would be affected by the Insect Swarm at first, and although it wouldn't be more than a nuisance, it's enough to get overwhelmed by Alucard. However, without a weapon, Alucard would have to rely solely on his strikes in order to harm Spider-Man. Meanwhile, Spider-Man has his webs to incapacitate Alucard from range, but by this point, it will be CQC fight. Due to having already sustained level 2 injuries, and because the added factors of traps + ambush + insect swarm would play a role, I'll vote that Spider-Man also dies. However, I think it's fair to say he won't go down without a fight, and will therefore deal level 2 damage to Alucard.

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Naronu

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@geekryan: Now hold on, what happened to:

Normally, an ambush does not need to result in a death, but since both sides are arguing this battle as to the death and escape wasn't really discussed, one side will die.

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geekryan

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@naronu said:

@geekryan: Now hold on, what happened to:

Normally, an ambush does not need to result in a death, but since both sides are arguing this battle as to the death and escape wasn't really discussed, one side will die.

You're right, I had forgotten about that. Let me edit my vote.

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TheWatcherKing

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@geekryan: I’m kinda confused cause it sounds like you think Spider-Man has the advantage and would run from Alucard in character

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geekryan

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