Avatar image for monsterstomp
#151 Edited by MonsterStomp (32886 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Like I said earlier in the thread. If Wolverine is faster, its not a noticeable difference. I'm not saying Batman is faster than Wolverine. I think this is a stalemate. I'm just getting to the point that just because one is superhuman, doesn't mean he is faster than human perfection. Not with feats like Bruce's. Nightwing is peak human but he's no where near as fast as Batman or Wolverine..

Avatar image for pokergeist
#152 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Yes, I've heard of those terms. We weren't talking about that. I was getting to the point that just because Wolverine is superhuman, doesn't automatically mean he's faster than Batman. That's what everyone seems to point out though. "Wolverine is superhuman, Batman is peak human, debate over". Both have debateable speed.

OK, that is fair enough.

Avatar image for wolverine008
#153 Edited by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Good point about Nightwing, but I think that because Wolverine is a low level superhuman, he will have a slight edge in speed compared to Batman.

Avatar image for monsterstomp
#154 Posted by MonsterStomp (32886 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for wolverine008
#155 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for granitesoldier
#156 Posted by GraniteSoldier (12727 posts) - - Show Bio

For better or worse, the terms "peak human" and "super human" are really grey lines in comics. Captain America is considered "super human" by name, but if you look at his stats he's peak human or very low level super human. Same could be argued with Wolverine or Batman in my opinion, it really depends on the writer and what they want them to be able to do at that time I guess.

As for this thread, I personally think they are roughly equal, with maybe Wolverine edging a slight speed edge.

But like Cap, Batman often seems faster than he is in combat because expert combatants can predict what an opponent will do by subtle body movement. A shift in weight, the spacing of their feet, the squareness of their body, it is all clues as to what to expect. While Wolverine in raw speed may potentially be faster, it's Batman's ability to read an opponent in combat that gives him the illusion of great speed.

Or perhaps that's how I interpret it to keep the realm of "peak" and "super" human separate. Either way it's may two cents.

Avatar image for immortal777
#157 Posted by Immortal777 (9602 posts) - - Show Bio

They're about even.

Avatar image for monsterstomp
#158 Posted by MonsterStomp (32886 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for wolverine008
#159 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Do it! Bump your fist against your computer screen!

Avatar image for monsterstomp
#160 Posted by MonsterStomp (32886 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for tifalockhart
#161 Posted by TifaLockhart (18841 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine, he's faster than Thor.

OH SNAP.

Online
Avatar image for cfrehse
#162 Posted by cfrehse (2337 posts) - - Show Bio

id say wolverine is faster than bats but lately he doesn't show it. He just tanks damage while he fights. He couldn't barely tag black panther recently

Avatar image for pokergeist
#163 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

bump. Any others?

Avatar image for jashro44
#164 Posted by jashro44 (41189 posts) - - Show Bio

@cfrehse: to be fair we don't exactly know the full details of black panthers upgrade...

Moderator Online
Avatar image for god_spawn
#165 Posted by God_Spawn (40981 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cfrehse: to be fair we don't exactly know the full details of black panthers upgrade...

And we also know that a lot of Wolverine's stats are helped by his healing factor. He still has the adamantium, and right now Wolverine isn't exactly in peak psychological or physical condition for that matter. Even T'Challa pointed out Logan was acting strange.

Moderator
Avatar image for jashro44
#166 Posted by jashro44 (41189 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: is wolverines speed connected to his healing factor though? I think the drug beast gave wolverine has stopped adamantium from having the negative effects it normally would on wolverine.

Moderator Online
Avatar image for god_spawn
#167 Edited by God_Spawn (40981 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I would like to think it is, at least to some degree. Quite a few bios put his enhanced agility and reflexes in parts contributing to his hf, which allows him to push his body much farther than normal. And Beast said he found a way to counteract the poisoning, not necessarily counteract the added strain it puts on his body. I think Wolverine is basically beak human on a standard physical level anyway. I mean, he is moving around with the adamantium without dragging his body, but without the added benefit of his healing factor to keep his body in pristine condition, I'd think he wouldn't be able to move as fast or be as strong without it.

No Caption Provided

Moderator
Avatar image for thecerealkillz
#168 Edited by TheCerealKillz (10332 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Didn't Deathstroke get his shit kicked by a normal thug after that.

Avatar image for pokergeist
#169 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Didn't Deathstroke get his shit kicked by a normal thug after that.

Apparently a guy who "kicks horses" for fun put Deathstroke down after that.

Avatar image for thebourneposter
#170 Edited by TheBournePoster (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

It's funny that there was so much dissent. Last time I implied that their speed was even close I was treated like a bumbling idiot.

Also, an X men handbook stated that Wolverine has the strength of a normal man of his height and build who participated in intensive regular exercise.

Avatar image for jashro44
#171 Edited by jashro44 (41189 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I think they probably were just mentioning his enhanced physicals in that paragraph because they just made mention his stamina was beyond peak and they were leading into that wolverine is beyond human levels in physicals. I don't think the mention of super human reflexes gets its own paragraph in bios usually. I think wolverines physicals are about the same. All though he is afraid of death so he might not be mentally 100%.

Moderator Online
Avatar image for wolverine008
#172 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio

I recently got some scans showing Wolverine's speed show I thought I'd share them.

Keeps even pace with Spider-Man (a guy that's dodged TEN snipers shooting at him at at once, easily outraces cars, dodge Iron Man's repulsor blasts, etc), and moves so fast he even makes him say "Is he.... faster than me?".

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

Easily dodges X-23 (who has superhuman speed), while trying to not hurt her while creating after images.

No Caption Provided

Vanishes in plain sight.

No Caption Provided

Tags Speed Demon

No Caption Provided

Dodges bullets fired from a helicopter and a missle.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#173 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Vanishes after a mere second of being outside of Andrew Bennett's (a powerful vampire with enhanced senses) vision.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Gets the jump on Cheetah, who also has enhanced senses, and easily knocks her out.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Disappears before a cop and reappears behind him.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • In The Dark Knight, Batman evades Forbes without him even knowing.

  • Despite being weakened and battered, Bruce still vanishes from Bane's sight.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • Even Azrael, with Nomoz standing right behind him, lose sight of Batman in a single second.

  • Manages to vanish before Mr.Terrific's eyes.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • Deadshot loses track of Batman after trying to shoot him (granted he has a history of pulling his shots, the villains next to him also lost sight of him).

  • Not even Jay Garrick can find The Dark Knight once he vanishes.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • Martian Manhunter loses Batman after a second of the lights are shut down.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • In their first meeting, Batman already pulls his Houdini trick on Superman.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Both Superman and Captain Atom lose Batman after they turn around.

  • In the New 52, a young Batman sneaks up on a young Superman, AND manages to put a small bat-tracker on his cape.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Once again, pulls the disappearance act on Superman.

  • Dodges a volley of batarangs shot by Azrael.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Dodges a multiple rockets while fighting a thug.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Dodges Heatstroke's blasts.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Dodges Mr.Freeze's blasts in point-blank range.

  • Dodges Dr.Light's beams.

  • Dodges Malik's light constructs and manages to close the gap.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
  • Dodges and outruns explosive mines in very close range.

  • Dodges a drive-by shooting (sub-machine guns) while saving a person, and catches up with the car.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Grabs a gun from a trained government agent before he even knows it.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Easily grabs the gun from a cop and breaks her nose right after.

  • Speed-blitz a bunch of cops pointing pistols at him.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Takes the guns from the Hungarian Special Forces with a cyclone move before they can react.
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

There's more, but I think this proves the point well enough. Batman is faster by feats.

Avatar image for wolverine008
#174 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#175 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for tensor
#176 Posted by tensor (7486 posts) - - Show Bio

They are both pretty quick.My two favorite characters.Batman speed is insane for a human.Wolverine hold is own.Its hard to say who has faster reflex.

Online
Avatar image for wolverine008
#177 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Nice scans man! I still think Wolverine edges out Batman in speed though.

Its debatable.

True about it being debatable. I just think Wolverine moving so fast that Spider-Man even thought he could be faster than him shows that he's faster than Batman. Spidey is in a completely different league speed wise than Bats, and would dance circles around him if the wanted to. Logan keeping such an even pace with him is pretty incredible.

Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#178 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@wolverine08 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Nice scans man! I still think Wolverine edges out Batman in speed though.

Its debatable.

True about it being debatable. I just think Wolverine moving so fast that Spider-Man even thought he could be faster than him shows that he's faster than Batman. Spidey is in a completely different league speed wise than Bats, and would dance circles around him if the wanted to. Logan keeping such an even pace with him is pretty incredible.

Even though Superman was slower because of his mind control, this is still very impressive.

Avatar image for jmarshmallow
#179 Posted by Jmarshmallow (11925 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for wolverine008
#180 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@wolverine08 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Nice scans man! I still think Wolverine edges out Batman in speed though.

Its debatable.

True about it being debatable. I just think Wolverine moving so fast that Spider-Man even thought he could be faster than him shows that he's faster than Batman. Spidey is in a completely different league speed wise than Bats, and would dance circles around him if the wanted to. Logan keeping such an even pace with him is pretty incredible.

Even though Superman was slower because of his mind control, this is still very impressive.

Woah, that is impressive. Even though I do think Logan is faster than Bats, the difference probably isn't that much since Logan is just a low level superhuman.

Avatar image for god_spawn
#181 Edited by God_Spawn (40981 posts) - - Show Bio

I find Wolverine is the faster of the two and has the better combat speed feats.

Moderator
Avatar image for sovereign91001
#182 Posted by Sovereign91001 (7214 posts) - - Show Bio

I dunno if anyone's posted it yet but Wolverine can enhance his speed to superhuman levels:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

I tend to think Wolverine is the faster of the two; he tends to exhibit a higher level of speed more often in combat situations.

Avatar image for wolverine008
#183 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sovereign91001
#184 Edited by Sovereign91001 (7214 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for thebourneposter
#185 Posted by TheBournePoster (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Not to completely dismiss it, but I'd say the Spider-Man fight is more of a low showing for Spider Man than a high showing for Wolverine.

Avatar image for monsterstomp
#186 Edited by MonsterStomp (32886 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Wow dude! They might as well give Batman teleportation powers. That disappearing act he did on Superman and Captain Atom was insane.

I'd still give the Combat/Reflex speed to Wolverine though.

Avatar image for wolverine008
#187 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Wow dude! They might as well give Batman teleportation powers. That disappearing act he did on Superman and Captain Atom was insane.

I'd still give the Combat/Reflex speed to Wolverine though.

That was a pretty sick feat by Batman.

Avatar image for willpayton
#188 Edited by willpayton (18545 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure why people always insist on calling Batman "peak human" as if that means something. Any way you look at it he has superhuman speed. There's plenty of scans on this thread to show that.

Avatar image for jashro44
#189 Posted by jashro44 (41189 posts) - - Show Bio

I think people are confusing stealth feats with speed feats.

Moderator Online
Avatar image for monsterstomp
#190 Posted by MonsterStomp (32886 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: More like disappearing acts to combat/reflex feats.

Avatar image for wolverine008
#191 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebourneposter: In Scarlet Spider #18 Kaine (Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was astonished by Wolverine's speed. While Kaine was having dodging all the automatic machine gun fire they were taking without spider sense, Kaine noted that "Wolverine hadn't even been touched. And that for a short hairy guy weighing one thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja."

So while I see where you're coming from with your remark about Spider-Man I really don't think it's a low showing.

Avatar image for thebourneposter
#192 Posted by TheBournePoster (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: It's definitely not something to be hand waved away, it's a great feat. Kaine being impressed by his speed is also a good feat.

Avatar image for jashro44
#193 Posted by jashro44 (41189 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: It's definitely not something to be hand waved away, it's a great feat. Kaine being impressed by his speed is also a good feat.

I just want to say that spider-man has commented on wolverines speed more then once. In his fight with daken when daken was landing more strikes, Peter remarked "he moves like dad". Granted he was disorientated by pheromones but still. Its not a low showing for Peter, or a high showing for wolverine. Its consistent for spider-like characters to be impressed by his speed. I think there is a 3rd time Peter commented that wolverine was fast but I can't remember. Obviously spider-man is faster but the gap isn't as big as some would think based on Peters comments.

Moderator Online
Avatar image for pokergeist
#194 Edited by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I like how your credibility is limited to insulting other users.

Wolverine Speed vs Batman

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

.

Great Debating skills. LOL.

Avatar image for ghostrider2
#195 Posted by GhostRider2 (4931 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Wolverine, and in a fight, unless Bats gets prep he gets owned.Batman can only be superior if he gets prep.Reflex or fight Wolverine is better.

Avatar image for wolverine008
#196 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I like how your credibility is limited to insulting other users LOL.

Stop mentioning me in different articles to try coax a puerile argument. If you don't, I'll just start flagging you, and report you to a mod. Try me :)

Avatar image for pokergeist
#197 Posted by Pokergeist (23180 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@wolverine08: I like how your credibility is limited to insulting other users LOL.

Stop mentioning me in different articles to try coax a puerile argument. If you don't, I'll just start flagging you, and report you to a mod. Try me :)

Flag away. Your the one who kept hassling me about Lowballing, now you cant take it when I show ya your colors in a debate? You want to talk smack about how I am being discredited by your skills?

Look at your skills. I highlighted them. Next time you want to troll me around forums and keep tagging me to remind me how bad at debating I am, take a good look at your skills above there. Loved how you even called MonsterStomp a clown. Good stuff. :)

Avatar image for wolverine008
#198 Posted by Wolverine008 (50948 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@wolverine08: I like how your credibility is limited to insulting other users LOL.

Stop mentioning me in different articles to try coax a puerile argument. If you don't, I'll just start flagging you, and report you to a mod. Try me :)

Flag away. Your the one who kept hassling me about Lowballing, now you cant take it when I show ya your colors in a debate? You want to talk smack about how I am being discredited by your skills?

Look at your skills. I highlighted them. Next time you want to troll me around forums and keep tagging me to remind me how bad at debating I am, take a good look at your skills above there. Loved how you even called MonsterStomp a clown. Good stuff. :)

LOL, this coming from the guy who was singing with the Ennis showing where Wolverine got taken out with a nerve strike until GodSpawn completely annihilated your argument. Great debating skills buddy. I also noted to you multiple times in both his solo titles and team books where he demonstrated superhuman speed, and kept up with people who have superhuman speed, and you still stick with the peak human label. Like I said, keep harassing me, and I'll just flag you and report you to a mod. It looks like you want to be banned today :)

Avatar image for acrokat
#199 Posted by AcroKat (6901 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting thread. By all logic Wolverine should be far faster but by feats Bruce isn't that far off.

Avatar image for warlockmage
#200 Posted by Warlockmage (4714 posts) - - Show Bio

@acrokat said:

Interesting thread. By all logic Wolverine should be far faster but by feats Bruce isn't that far off.

no Wolverine is the "Spider" level speed category. Batman is at his very very best moments equal to Captain America. the 2 are not comparable at all