Combat/Reflex Speed Wolverine vs Batman

@theocitylegend: i think he is saying that because of batman's popularity he is portrayed as better than he is suppose to be by human or even peak human standards. the writers want to make him look good and show tat he can hang with the other demigods he is on the JL with

#17 Edited by MisterWhisper (1271 posts) - 7 hours, 55 minutes ago - Show Bio

I think the main difference here is that Wolverine is a mutant with superhuman physical abilities given to him by his DNA, Batman is a human with superhuman physical abilities given to him by his popularity.

So true. Qft

I don't have the scan but in Batman R.I.P (I think) while Bruce Wayne was in training one of his teachers tried to poison his tea. The teacher ends up being poisoned because Bruce habitually swaps cups with people when they blink without being noticed or spilling anything from a full cup.

That scan was posted already, pretty impressive.

Judging by the feats posted I'd say they were about as fast as each other.

Wolverine is superhuman. Batman is not.

People keep saying this, with no point to add..

There is no need to add anything. It's sufficient.

Wolverine is superhuman, but is he legitimately superhuman in speed? Is he only peak human in speed?

Are they both peak human speed? Are they both superhuman speed?

Nobody knows..

Feats > Statements

This was already addressed a few times and it was to counter a claim that apparently Spiderman thought Wolverine was almost as fast as him.

The point is, superhuman>peak human. Done.

Both comes pretty close if you ask me, despite the fact that Wolverine is superhuman while Batman is possibly beyond peak perfection. Batman has disappeared in a blink.

Gee, what a compelling argument

Thank you, :p

Batmans speed showings may be partially down to superior technique too. Nobodys better than disappearing than him, and he obviously practices A LOT.

Wolverine doesn't train as much as Bats, so his showings may be down to natural speed.

Either way, I'd say they were about even.

@i_like_swords: Agreed. The difference wouldn't be by much.

@enzeru:

Wolverine also recently "fought" Kaine, who was impressed by Wolverine's speed and we also had Thor saying that Wolverine is faster than him, while Thor is someone who can move so fast that he becomes a blur.It's not hard to believe that Wolverine could come at least close to Spider-Man's speed and the scan you've shown doesn't really have all too much to do with speed by it self - or at least in my opinion.

And what you did then is to come up with a "low showing" for the character to negate his higher speed showings, which is really not cool man. That's as if I would walk around and yell that Goku withstands city-busting explosions and in the next moment he gets hurt by a small rock ... or that Superman tanks supernovas, but a punch from Black Adam knocks him out.

(Keep in mind that the two last examples have actual context, so they're not just thrown out there)

Thor only has good travel speed despite few claims from his fans he has never really displayed reflexes beyond a typical unpowered main character. Batman has also fought avoided blows from people such as WW and speedsters, people that should be faster than him, you can claim these are PIS but then you could claim Wolverine fighting Kaine is PIS which it is because when people always reference this one showing despite countless others then it clearly means that isn't his average.

Only if it is a low showing which it is not, a low showing would be well below there average. Spiderman outmaneuvering and easily entangling Wolverine is perfectly viable, a low showing would be a rare beating by a character such as toad

Batman is faster than Wolverine. Reflexes? Equal.

@i_like_swords:

Why should Batman be able to eclipse the speed of someone who is superhuman?

They are from two different universes, peak human speed in DC can be the same as low level Superhuman speed in Marvel. There is no point in saying that one is faster because he's labelled Superhuman when they both have similar feats

I guess you have a point about different universes, but IMO, someone who is peak human isn't faster than someone who is superhuman. Plain and simple.

It really isn't plain and simple, but to each their own.

But they've done similar things, although Batman is just 'peak human'.... and does it consistently.

The standard between peak human and Superhuman differ in different universes. Batman may be considered Superhuman if he transitioned to Marvel

Even Cap could to be considered a low level of metahuman in the DC.

Considering the fact that Batman has been said on numerous occasions to be peak of human through extensive training, and doesn't have any enhancements, I find it hard to believe that he would be superhuman just through training, and coming to Marvel would make him superhuman. This isn't the Speed force we are talking about here, it's just the simple distinction between a man that is human, and a man that is superhuman.

Someone has probably posted Batman's cup feat by now.

To me, that one is quicker than anything Wolverine has done.

And that one where he disappears in front of a guy that was looking right at him.

Wolverine SHOULD be faster.

But according to feats I think Bats has a slight edge.

Jmarshmallow

The feats, showed that Batman and Logan have the same speed, more or less. Logan is superior than Batman in endurance thanks to the healing factor and a slightly level of physical strength..

I didn't say he would be superhuman, I said he could be considered. They may think he's superhuman when he's not, seeing as he has feats similar to those with Superhuman stats

Exactly

*Shrugs* I think Wolverine has the edge when it comes to speed/ reflexes since he is a low level superhuman, but Batman may be close since he's peak of human.

The all feats of this two characters, proof just that Logan surpass Batman in endurance and strength, but not in speed and reflexes. You take for granted that because Logan is portrayed like a "metahuman", can beat Batman in everything.

Yes, I think that because Wolverine is a legit superhuman, he should have an edge in physicals to the peak human Batman. I'm not saying that the difference is huge, because Wolverine is only a low level superhuman, and I think Batman is probably close to him since he's peak human, but ultimately Logan has a slight advantage when it comes to physicals.

Well, a peak human is almost to the level of a low superhuman level character, in speed, reflexes and agility, the difference is really little. In endurance-stamina and strength, well, here the difference is more big. In stamina, Logan can withstand at impacts and fights for long time, Batman for less. In strength, Logan is class 1 tons, Batman can lift 1000/1100 lbs (but is probable that the current Bats can lift even 1500 lbs) . So, in an arm wrestling, Logan is the winner and also in a challenge of high jump.

Batman shouldn't really supposed to be faster, but due to feats he looks slightly faster than Wolverine

Yes, indeed.

I'd say both are equally as fast. Batman is better at disappearing with his speed and stealth, but Wolverine seems to be quicker in a fight.

judging combat speed is pretty difficult when dealing with static, 2-dimensional images. There's a lot that happens "between the panels" that we don't see.

So has wolverine.

Gallery

In all honesty moving faster then human eyes is pretty standard....

@jashro44 said:

@jmarshmallow said:

And that one where he disappears in front of a guy that was looking right at him.

Jmarshmallow

So has wolverine.

Gallery

In all honesty moving faster then human eyes is pretty standard....

Good stuff.

Yea thats what I was assuming. He/she probably got it from the batman capability site (its a good resource for showing batmans feats but they have so many out of context scans and showings).

And just to elaborate why I believe wolverine is faster then batman I think his feats are better on average. Someone posted a scan of batman moving cups in the blink of an eye, I posted a scan of wolverine moving faster then someones mind can register (speed of processing thought is about 200 miliseconds where as the speed of blinking an eye is about 300 miliseconds IIRC). People are posting scans of batman moving faster then the human eye I posted scans of wolverine and sabretooths fight in mutant massacre where they fought at speeds so fast that Psylocke couldn't follow there movements. Batman is peak human on paper where as wolverine is low level superhuman/enhanced.

And about some of the scans posted but batman tagging impulse isn't really something which would make him faster then wolverine because we have no idea how fast impulse was moving. And as for batman moving faster then Jay can see I think thats a thing of stealth rather then speed...Because if we assume its speed we would have to assume batman is faster then light.

I don't think wolverine would be blitzing batman but I do think he is noticeably faster.

@wolverine08: LOL thanks!

For the point of the matter the feat was fine which was that Wolverine has no reflexes showings that haven't been performed by any non-enhanced heroes and the fact of the matter is that seems to be holding true.

Your saying faster than someones mind can register but that's not the case when a dirt old scan doesn't hold up to the fact that Psylocke has proven multiple times that she has no problem following Wolverines moves, in fact there are countless examples of the non-enhanced holding there own or beating Wolverine.

Wolverines enhancements are fairly minor over peak human but who's to say that just because someones unnaturally enhanced that they are automatically peak human.

Not sure what feat you are referring to in your first paragraph?

As for wolverine getting tagged by non enhanced characters taking away from Psylocke being unable to follow his movements, it really doesn't. Battle forum rules state that sometimes characters don't use there speed for plot all the time. Everyone gets tagged by characters slower then them. It doesn't really mean anything.

As for your last sentence, again I am not 100% what you are saying here, but if you are saying wolverines enhancements only make him peak human I disagree. Wolverine has been called super human/enhanced in many bios and sources which typically means beyond peak by marvels rating systems. Admittedly they are a bit inconsistent but wolverine is ranked as beyond peak on paper which is something we should take into account.

I agree its not a huge gap but it is a noticeable gap IMO.

@jashro44: I've been through this before and that's not what the rule means. It doesn't = best showings only otherwise Batman would have no trouble with anything less than Kryptonian, it's more to do with characters such as Superman who clearly choose not to use certain abilities.

Deathstroke is listed and has said multiple times as having his reflexes enhanced by a factor of 10. He puts up a good fight with Batman and loses depowered but when he's powered he should absolutely stomp with that sort of difference but he doesn't Batman in turn puts up a good fight. What's said is fairly unimportant compared to what's shown and from what we've seen there's negligible difference because at the end of the day there's little the artists and writers can do to differentiate the feats that most street levelers perform without taking the piss.

This is a battle of feats not stats

Batman has a slight edge in better feats than Wolverine

Wolverine has better stats than feats

the battle is not who would win in a fight it's who has better feats and currently Batman winning.

As always good stuff and breakdown.

@dextersinister:

I've been through this before and that's not what the rule means. It doesn't = best showings only otherwise Batman would have no trouble with anything less than Kryptonian, it's more to do with characters such as Superman who clearly choose not to use certain abilities.

The feats I have posted for wolverine are pretty consistent....There as consistent as the ones posted for batman. As for batman fighting superman level beings again its an issue of superman not using speed. Batman has admitted superman could kill him before batman even knew what happened in Hush....Batman tagging superman isn't a feat of speed its a showing of one character not using there speed to the best of there abilities.

Deathstroke is listed and has said multiple times as having his reflexes enhanced by a factor of 10. He puts up a good fight with Batman and loses depowered but when he's powered he should absolutely stomp with that sort of difference but he doesn't Batman in turn puts up a good fight. What's said is fairly unimportant compared to what's shown and from what we've seen there's negligible difference because at the end of the day there's little the artists and writers can do to differentiate the feats that most street levelers perform without taking the piss.

I don't see what this has to do with batman and wolverine.

However Slade and batman have never fought while Slade was depowered. This is an internet rumor which no one has been able to prove. Batman has bridged the gap on Slade due to suepioer skill but Slade is faster then he is.