Cole and Delsin vs Mercer and Heller

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#1 Posted by deactivated-5a08a02678f1f (8110 posts) - - Show Bio

Cole MacGrath (inFAMOUS & inFAMOUS 2) and Delsin Rowe (inFAMOUS Second Son) versus Alex Mercer (Prototype & Prototype 2) and James Heller (Prototype 2).

Cole has all good and evil karma powers from the end of inFAMOUS 2, except for the Beast's power. Delsin has his smoke, neon, video, and concrete powers.

Likewise, Mercer and Heller are each fully upgraded.

They fight in Seattle. Everyone is bloodlusted. There is a starting distance of 85 feet. Who will win: the inFAMOUS, or the Prototypes?

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#2 Edited by deactivated-5a08a02678f1f (8110 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP

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#3 Edited by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

I had literally just finished Second Son about an hour ago. Anyway, Cole gets decimated by Mercer alone. While Delsin is incredibly versatile and will create difficulty for the Prototypes, his abilities aren't sufficient to deal a significant amount of harm to either and certainly cannot handle them both at once.

The Prototypes, with a small amount of difficulty.

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#4 Edited by deactivated-5a08a02678f1f (8110 posts) - - Show Bio
@pope052 said:

I had literally just finished Second Son about an hour ago. Anyway, Cole gets decimated by Mercer alone. While Delsin is incredibly versatile and will create difficulty for the Prototypes, his abilities aren't sufficient to deal a significant amount of harm to either and certainly cannot handle them both at once.

The Prototypes, with a small amount of difficulty.

Thanks. I think I'll avoid making inFAMOUS vs Prototype threads in the future.

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#5 Posted by Brolytard1337 (365 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

I had literally just finished Second Son about an hour ago. Anyway, Cole gets decimated by Mercer alone. While Delsin is incredibly versatile and will create difficulty for the Prototypes, his abilities aren't sufficient to deal a significant amount of harm to either and certainly cannot handle them both at once.

The Prototypes, with a small amount of difficulty.

QFT

Only because it's going to be mainly 2 on 1.

If Delsin was fighting one of the prototypes in a one on one battle, the prototypes would still win, but not as easily.

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#6 Posted by deactivated-5a08a02678f1f (8110 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by BEYONDERGOD (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/alex-mercer-vs-delsin-rowe-1547849/#1

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#8 Posted by BEYONDERGOD (1946 posts) - - Show Bio

@shiryu:

Alex & Heller would destroy him

Speed?

Strength?

Powers?

Intelligence?

I'm tried of people saying Beast Cole owns because he has a street level attack

Alex survived a nuke

Heller survived a island consumption

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#9 Posted by Brolytard1337 (365 posts) - - Show Bio

@shiryu: What do you mean beast cole?

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#10 Edited by deactivated-5a08a02678f1f (8110 posts) - - Show Bio

@shiryu: What do you mean beast cole?

...as in Cole... from the evil karma ending of inFAMOUS 2... with the Beast's powers.

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#11 Posted by Brolytard1337 (365 posts) - - Show Bio

@shiryu said:

@brolytard1337 said:

@shiryu: What do you mean beast cole?

...as in Cole... from the evil karma ending of inFAMOUS 2... with the Beast's powers.

Does he have any feats?

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#12 Posted by rogueshadow (29594 posts) - - Show Bio

Prototypes stomp.

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5a08a02678f1f (8110 posts) - - Show Bio

@shiryu said:

@brolytard1337 said:

@shiryu: What do you mean beast cole?

...as in Cole... from the evil karma ending of inFAMOUS 2... with the Beast's powers.

Does he have any feats?

Usually when Beast Cole is used, we just add his evil karma powers to that of the Beast's.

With that being said, though, no, there are no feats for Beast Cole explicitly. His feats are constituted by those of Evil Cole and the Beast.

Probably a good idea to let this thread die at this point. I see it wasn't a good idea.

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#14 Posted by ARMIV2 (10074 posts) - - Show Bio

@shiryu said:

@brolytard1337 said:

@shiryu: What do you mean beast cole?

...as in Cole... from the evil karma ending of inFAMOUS 2... with the Beast's powers.

Does he have any feats?

Only "feats" I can think of are his moves during his Beast mode level 3 in All-Stars.

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#15 Edited by BEYONDERGOD (1946 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Edited by UndinehunterTitan (297 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: @shiryu: @shiryu: @armiv2: @beyondergod: Delsin is untouchable and can decimate regular people in one shot, or restrain them. Cole is a bit more sturdy but overall his lightning and Delsin's restraining would win them this game.

Not to mention the Radiant Sweep would be the best karmic blast against Alex and James. Wombo Combo. That and lightning storm.

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#17 Posted by Stealth_Warrior (1359 posts) - - Show Bio

Cole solos.

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#18 Edited by DeathHero61 (18876 posts) - - Show Bio
Loading Video...

@shiryu: No feats? the beast can make himself into a ray sphere bomb. Which can encompass several city blocks. He has the beast destructive powers as well and we all know what he was doing during the game. Black holes, gravity manipulation. He was a beast!

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#19 Posted by UrbanChill (235 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont think durability directly translates to strength it just means you can take a punch

with that in mind team infamous wins

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#20 Edited by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan:

Like I said, Delsin's versatility is a key factor here and will cause Heller some trouble, but he shares the same durability and damage output issue as Cole does. He's only completely untouchable while invisible, but he can still get rained with bullets while running at "light-speed" or using his smoke-dash. Not to mention, he can't power-switch at will and has to absorb a source of power, but Heller will catch him easily.

Heller will eventually tag him like everybody else does and that's it, while he's safe from a significant amount of harm using his shields, speed and general durability. Cole is left to Alex, and short work is made of him since Alex has demonstrated literally everything required to stomp Cole. By the way, Second Son was beast.

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#21 Edited by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by Stealth_Warrior (1359 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by UndinehunterTitan (297 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052:

Yes but if he keeps getting away from James and knocking them dizzy with a neon headshot or leg shot, it'll annoy them. The neon grenade that's barely noticeable would be a problem too. I'm sure that Delsin can't vaporize James and Alex in one shot, but repeated attacks from it will damage them heavily assuming it does disintegrate people. But if OP says that he can use all powers at the same time, well that might be a lead they need. Though I'm pretty sure you can't get hit by dashing in smoke form or light speed. Maybe explosions but nothing else.

And so will Cole against either of them. Once one of them gets tagged the prototype is going to have difficulty getting back up.

Again I'll say it. We both have arguments that we can't get past. I still refute Alex's speed feat, him being too heavy, him being immune to the stun effects of the attacks and such. Cole can handle Alex if left alone with him. And Delsin will just have to survive. If they both target Delsin, or Cole then Delsin can run in front of them and use Radiant Sweep. Once they're floating, its easy enough to use a lightning storm.

And yes I love Second Son. I am disappointed by it but I still love it. And the most beautiful attack is Radiant Sweep. Tell me Pope, did you finish the game on evil or good? If you did good, what did you do to Hank? If evil, how's the ending? Be sure to place spoilers on your reply

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#24 Posted by DeathHero61 (18876 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@undinehuntertitan:

Like I said, Delsin's versatility is a key factor here and will cause Heller some trouble, but he shares the same durability and damage output issue as Cole does. He's only completely untouchable while invisible, but he can still get rained with bullets while running at "light-speed" or using his smoke-dash. Not to mention, he can't power-switch at will and has to absorb a source of power, but Heller will catch him easily.

Heller will eventually tag him like everybody else does and that's it, while he's safe from a significant amount of harm using his shields, speed and general durability. Cole is left to Alex, and short work is made of him since Alex has demonstrated literally everything required to stomp Cole. By the way, Second Son was beast.

Actually cole is ridiculously durable he can tank attacks from heller and mercer but delsin can potentially get one shotted. And im not sure if you knew this but delsin is actually pretty damn fast.

Loading Video...

And delsin is actually not touchable in smoke form.(technically)

Look

Loading Video...

Skip to 13:28-13:47 And go back to the first video i posted and skip to 2:05

Although i do agree cole and delsin loses, how does mercer counter subzero ice attacks, and spammable thunder rockets, and instant restraining electric grenades and more.(basically as soon as it hits a target, electric arc restraints cling onto a target right after the explosion.) And his attacks are far more powerful than regular grenades, guns, and rockets. And lightning storm will hurt like a bitch.

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#25 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio
@pope052 said:

I had literally just finished Second Son about an hour ago. Anyway, Cole gets decimated by Mercer alone. While Delsin is incredibly versatile and will create difficulty for the Prototypes, his abilities aren't sufficient to deal a significant amount of harm to either and certainly cannot handle them both at once.

The Prototypes, with a small amount of difficulty.

hahahah no

frist off as i keep reminding people the prototypes can be taken down with Tasers ( if you have a better showing with electricity by all means show me it ) so Cole should be able to fry mercer and he has a movement set that will allow hm to put some distance betwine him and mercer so that he can rain punishment all day

Neon powers can distigrate people with a single head shot it will take more than one obviously but they would have a hell of an efect on the protoypes as there is nothig to regen from it is litteraly burrning away their bio mass

@beyondergod:

I'm tried of people saying Beast Cole owns because he has a street level attack

dude you do realize that the beast ( whom cole has all the power of in the evil endingg) is a city buster with atomic level Regen? with the power to absorb all their power? with the abilatys to make micro black holes?

Beast cole is leuges above Mercer and Heller

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#26 Posted by UndinehunterTitan (297 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the final verdict here is the energy level attacks. Alex might have more resistance to smoke, but neon and video power is just something so different. He'll either be restrained or disintigrated in several shots

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#27 Edited by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan:

Sure, Delsin could annoy James by using his neon powers but they hardly suggest they could deal a significant amount of harm to Heller. I'm not saying they won't hurt, but they won't hurt too bad and hardly anything that could surpass Heller's shields. Lastly, Delsin can still take damage while running at light-speed (it only succeeds in avoiding shots, but not deflecting them) and the smoke dash can only be used once at a time, and Delsin has still been overwhelmed by firepower by using it.

And so will Cole against either of them. Once one of them gets tagged the prototype is going to have difficulty getting back up.

Again I'll say it. We both have arguments that we can't get past. I still refute Alex's speed feat, him being too heavy, him being immune to the stun effects of the attacks and such. Cole can handle Alex if left alone with him. And Delsin will just have to survive. If they both target Delsin, or Cole then Delsin can run in front of them and use Radiant Sweep. Once they're floating, its easy enough to use a lightning storm.

I don't see why you think they'll have any trouble getting back up, as Cole's shock-wave blasts would only succeed in staggering Mercer (and Mercer has showcased the ability to handle whatallof Cole's basics can do) and Heller's shields defend him from practically anything Delsin could dish out on a regular basis. Besides, Mercer and Heller always jump straight back up from everything that's fired at them and their stamina holds no limitation as opposed to the Conduits.

If you're going to clam that they'll have trouble standing, you'll need to demonstrate that Cole's attacks could do so instead of avoiding the feats. However, the Prototypes each exceed the weight in order to negate the effects of Cole's shockwaves and would only accomplish so much as even moving them. Although I do admit that Cole's Ionic Powers & Delsin's Karmic Bursts could potentially cause the Prototypes a moderate amount of damage, they lack anything suggesting they could deal significant damage to either Prototype as both have showcased to endure far worse than what the Conduits have demonstrated on panel.

Anyway, I finished the game on Good Karma and i'm replaying it on Evil at the moment although I have only made it past the part where you're making your way to Seattle with Reggie. As for Hank, I let him go as I wanted to stay on the strict hero side. I'm looking forward to the evil ending though(hoping it's soomewhat of an improvement over the good), and I assume you went with Good Karma too?

@deathhero61

Actually cole is ridiculously durable he can tank attacks from heller and mercer but delsin can potentially get one shotted. And im not sure if you knew this but delsin is actually pretty damn fast.

Cole is significantly durable if we're only referring to Cole himself, but when comparing him to the Prototypes he doesn't compare in the slightest. The impact from Mercer or Heller's moderate punches have easily busted out armored military choppers with a single blow. Cole's durability doesn't come close to that, at least in the blunt-force trauma aspect and the same applies to Delsin.

I know Delsin is fast (as I have completed the game) but not as fast as the Prototypes and they've tagged opponents who can move much faster than them. Once that happens, the Conduits are finished and the Prototypes have no need to use any of their effective weaponry.

And delsin is actually not touchable in smoke form.(technically)

Although i do agree cole and delsin loses, how does mercer counter subzero ice attacks, and spammable thunder rockets, and instant restraining electric grenades and more.(basically as soon as it hits a target, electric arc restraints cling onto a target right after the explosion.) And his attacks are far more powerful than regular grenades, guns, and rockets. And lightning storm will hurt like a bitch.

Delsin can only smoke-dash once at a time and it needs a second for him to use again, which is enough time for Heller to swipe him with the Whip-Fist.

  • The ice structures aren't durable and could be smashed out of from the inside.
  • Cole's rockets aren't getting past Heller's shields, and they're limited to Cole's energy capacity.
  • Again, Cole's restraints aren't strong enough to hold the Prototypes.
  • No they're not, military weaponry from Prototype have demonstrated to be far more destructive than Cole's basic attacks. The lightning storm will harm them conditionally, but hardly a game changer as opposed to what the Prototypes have withstood.

@cjdavis103

frist off as i keep reminding people the prototypes can be taken down with Tasers ( if you have a better showing with electricity by all means show me it ) so Cole should be able to fry mercer and he has a movement set that will allow hm to put some distance betwine him and mercer so that he can rain punishment all day

Neon powers can distigrate people with a single head shot it will take more than one obviously but they would have a hell of an efect on the protoypes as there is nothig to regen from it is litteraly burrning away their bio mass

Except as I had noted on a number of occasions, assuming electricity as a vulnerability based off one unconfirmed showing while the game had intentionally restricted Alex is a loophole argument around the fact that Cole's output isn't close to anything required to significantly damage Mercer.

Again, Cole has done nothing that has demonstrated the ability to hold off Mercer, instead only stagger or knock him down at best. Other than his Ionic Powers (which Mercer can and will recover from), Cole can't keep Mercer off of him and he'll eventually get struck like he has been on a number of inferior occasions, and it's all over.

Instead of focusing on what Cole has done or shown the ability to do, the primal argument is attacking a single instance at one of the earliest stages of Mercer's lifespan and was never referred to once again. The Conduits have been overwhelmed rather easily from a small group of enemies on a vast number of occasions, and those instances would be considered a warm-up for either Prototype.

On the other hand, the Prototypes only need their physicals and shields to handle Cole because they have the feats and evidence to back up this claim. The verdict here is the Conduits will get overwhelmed rather quickly, and it's done.

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#28 Edited by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio

Prototype is such an overrated game. Boring, dumb story, lame characters. I'll stick to Hulk Ultimate Destruction.

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#29 Posted by dondave (41760 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

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#30 Posted by DeathHero61 (18876 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052:

Loading Video...

It should be marked at 15:58, watch till 16:20.

Also its stated several times, that his durability is far higher than peak humans. The first few minutes(after the situation with the ray sphere.) Cole jumped of a multistory building and shrugged off the fall, later on calling his girlfriend telling her about it. Later on, the food was hanging from a large tall structure, and zeke stated that cole was the only one who can survive a fall like that. Although there are more infamous durability feats, im going to move on to infamous 2, infamous 2, cole got slammed in the head by a chopper,(mission 7) at the beginning of the game he got slammed by a flaming thrown object by the beast,(starting gameplay) and during the fight got crushed by his grip twice(which he seems to combines with his gravity powers) good cole(when the blast shard bombs were first introduced) he tried to go towards it and defuse it, but ended up having it explode in his face. Oh and to add icing to the cake.

Loading Video...

This video should be marked already.

Point blank explosion. gets up right after.

Loading Video...

It should be marked at 15:00, direct hit from rocket only temporarily fazed.

And here is a scan(s) of cole's durability.(the comics are canon)

No Caption Provided

He can effortlessly deflect RPG rockets within 1-2 meters of its target.

This shows he can easily just grab them with his powers.

Yeah i know i heard that they tanked a nuke. Im just showing durability feats for the heck of it.

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#31 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052:

Except as I had noted on a number of occasions, assuming electricity as a vulnerability based off one unconfirmed showing while the game had intentionally restricted Alex is a loophole argument around the fact that Cole's output isn't close to anything required to significantly damage Mercer.

I have a feat provide a counter example or give it up

Again, Cole has done nothing that has demonstrated the ability to hold off Mercer,

pulse attacks send him flying homeing electric rockets dase him at wworst and lets not forget the taser that is millions of times more powerful then the one that trew Alex for a loop

thing that has demonstrated the ability to hold off Mercer, instead only stagger or knock him down at best. Other than his Ionic Powers (which Mercer can and will recover from),

right a ligtning bolt's heat is aproximemetly 30,000 kelvins at point of contact and Cole can sustain that for approximately 4 seconds you really think he can tank that?

Cole can't keep Mercer off of him and he'll eventually get struck like he has been on a number of inferior occasions, and it's all over.

right because Alex can't be stunned by electrical attacks and cole is fast enough useing his plat forming powers he can get away in a hurry

ead of focusing on what Cole has done or shown the ability to do, the primal argument is attacking a single instance at one of the earliest stages of Mercer's lifespan and was never referred to once again

Do you or do you not have a counter feat if you do not then it is a legitament way for him to win thats like saying Krptonite is a cheap way to win aginst superman. if it is a weakness if you have poor showings against it then it is a charicteristic just because you refuse to accept an on screen weakness does not mean it is not there

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#32 Edited by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61:

Like I said, Cole's durability is substantial if we're focusing on him himself. While the feats you provided are certainly decent for Cole, my point still stands that a single blow from Mercer would decimate him on the spot.

@cjdavis103

I have a feat provide a counter example or give it up

No you don't, you're focusing on a game-mechanically restricted showing (which only occurred once) and the instance was never stated or confirmed. It's not nearly considered a weakness, but instead an assumption made up by the players of the game.

pulse attacks send him flying homeing electric rockets dase him at wworst and lets not forget the taser that is millions of times more powerful then the one that trew Alex for a loop

As I had pointed out before, Cole's shockwaves aren't remotely forceful enough to send someone of Alex's physicality flying back and would at best stagger him. Cole's rockets would succeed in knocking him off of his feet, but Mercer gets straight back up and could simply deflect the rockets using his shield in the first place (not that he'd need to).

Again, the Cross instance is a vehemently weak argument considering all of the variables and the fact that Mercer has handled Cole's demonstrated best output capacity. If you're going to refer to that flawed argumentation again instead of providing feats for Cole suggesting he could actually harm Alex, I really don't see the point in debating against you.

right a ligtning bolt's heat is aproximemetly 30,000 kelvins at point of contact and Cole can sustain that for approximately 4 seconds you really think he can tank that?

I do, because Mercer has demonstrated the feats to suggest he could and as far as it's actual feats say there'd be no trouble for Mercer to handle (plus he could possibly aim-dodge the attack itself). Besides, this is the one of two (Ionic Vortex) attacks that could only pose as a moderate threat to Mercer and literally nothing else could do anything significant as I have repeated more times than I could count.

right because Alex can't be stunned by electrical attacks and cole is fast enough useing his plat forming powers he can get away in a hurry

Alex has shrugged off better weaponry than Cole's basic attacks have to offer, and Cole is not even close to how fast Mercer is. He'd never outpace him, and if he ran off to recharge it leaves an opportunity for Alex to deliver a swift lunge kick to snap Cole's spine in half.

Do you or do you not have a counter feat if you do not then it is a legitament way for him to win thats like saying Krptonite is a cheap way to win aginst superman. if it is a weakness if you have poor showings against it then it is a charicteristic just because you refuse to accept an on screen weakness does not mean it is not there

I'm not refusing anything and I have been over this a countless amount of times. The instance was plot-driven, and everything suggests it. It's not even close to a weakness, and Alex has demonstrated virtually every requirement for beating Cole, which you have yet to showcase for Cole's defense instead of high balling a flawed "feat" from the opposing side.

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#33 Edited by deactivated-5a08a02678f1f (8110 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: You misunderstood me. I was saying that technically, Beast Cole has no feats, but the Beast does, so we just use his feats and add them to the ones Cole already has.

I was saying all of the Beast's feats are still applicable here.

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#34 Posted by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052:

No you don't, you're focusing on a game-mechanically restricted showing (which only occurred once) and the instance was never stated or confirmed. It's not nearly considered a weakness, but instead an assumption made up by the players of the game.

look at the feats is he is he not affected by the god damn taser if he was then he has a low electrical restaince now lets take a look at their biolagy Alex is a full Bio fourm meaning that excepting a thin hard shell of hardened Biomass he is surprisingly squashy henc why bullets do no damage to him from a lore seting due to fact that they do nothing to the bio mass it's self but this is why environmental attacks ( like explosions and fires and such ( yes i know he gets a fireproof upgrade but that is the outer shell) ) work on him because they affect it now unless you have an elctrical restaince feat for his outer shell that contridicts this it has a low protection from electrical charges so they can get thoughe and inflict damage directly to the bio mass frieing it

Heller in particular is only partaily converted so this means he still has a nervous system thus he will be tased hard

As I had pointed out before, Cole's shockwaves aren't remotely forceful enough to send someone of Alex's physicality flying back and would at best stagger him.

you seem to forget it is not just a physical force but an electro magntic one it levitates the target meaning Alex cannot just tank it he will be in the air unless he some how can cancle magntisum

ole's rockets would succeed in knocking him off of his feet, but Mercer gets straight back up and could simply deflect the rockets using his shield in the first place (not that he'd need to).

again what proof do you have of electrical restaince you seem to enjoy calling me out on it but you have absloutly Zero proof his powers are electrical restainte at all where as i have a showing and logic to back me up do you have eiter? because missles and bullets =/= electrical attacks

If you're going to refer to that flawed argumentation again instead of providing feats for Cole suggesting he could actually harm Alex, I really don't see the point in debating against you.

What is flawed you have yet to provide one source that shows electrical resistance even withot the taser feat you have nothing that says the outer shell can tank it if anything you are the one who is out of bounds here as you have no sources at all

o, because Mercer has demonstrated the feats to suggest he could

which ones? if you say nuke i am going to laugh so hard he did not survive a nuke he hapned to infect a crow that was it

Besides, this is the one of two (Ionic Vortex) attacks that could only pose as a moderate threat to Mercer and literally nothing else could do anything significant as I have repeated more times than I could count.

>.> <.<

where is your feats for electricity again?

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#35 Posted by dajhonmccloud (3034 posts) - - Show Bio

James and Alex..Total speed difference power, difference and Knowledge Level..

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#36 Posted by UndinehunterTitan (297 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052:

Here's my argument and to why Cole beats Alex or James.

You countererred that his electricity weakness wasn't there. It only occured once therefor it is not a valid weakness and more of PIS for gameplay mechanics.

1) I can either counter with the cutscene where a Hydra was restrained by a brace and an electric prod. However when James arrived it began to panic and try to get free in fear of James with the soldiers also noticing and running away. That could count as the second time they used it as a weakness. Why they didn't use it again? Well Cross has been hunting runners before, these guys are probably more afraid of James and are just mooks. Regular grunts. IF that's true then Alex still has shown no signs of adapting to electricity and Cole's lightning will still be effective.

2) If its not a valid weakness then it's something Alex never dealt with EVER. If that fight with Cross never involved that lightning as a weakness then it detaches this involvement with lightning. Alex never got hit by that PIS bullcrap and he gets off scot free, but one he deals with lightning he'll be affected by it. He won't be adapting to it anytime soon either. If that's true then Cole's voltage is also detached from its PIS bullcrap with the no-oneshot civilians despite killing people in one hit at the comics. Meaning more deadly against Alex.

At the weight problem, how in the world are Alex and James gliding if they're really that heavy? Sure that explains the heavy weight and large craters they form when landing but how in the world can they stay in the air for so long? Its not because they release the same amount of blood to counter gravity because then they would run out of blood, even if they can regenerate blood at a faster rate. So you either get James and Alex are faster but lighter, or they're heavier but not as fast as mach 1. Because they're still humanoid and if they go at that speed at that weight, well they can't fly then.

In any other game, like the comics, Cole can easily one shot several people at once. Even handling a military attack with ease and seemingly without a scratch. He koes people by throwing metallic objects at them and fries people's insides. These comic scans shows that

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And the soldiers are running around too seen by the feet position of the soldiers. Really, so out game, Cole casually takes out military the same speed as Alex does. With more accuracy too. He handles an organization 100 years ahead of time that knows him and have made preparations for him, yet he's still able to beat them. Keep in mind that the First Sons have better tech than the Blackwatch or anyone else in the world at that time

Although the damage output is really a bit more effective. Sure Alex can oneshot cole if he gets to attack him. But if he gets stunned once, he can get stuck in an infinite combo that I explained on another thread. Freezing him when he's stunned is also a viable option and the ice seems to cover everything. Probably damaging Alex more since he's biomass and thus more vulnerable to it than clothed people such as the Vemaak. Remember even the Vemaak with ice powers couldn't defend against Ionic Freeze. And as I said, Ionic Freeze is an unsuspecting attacks. It would look only like ice spikes but it'll actually freeze you before you know it and Alex and James would be too surprised by ice powers to consider that. In that time, it sets them up for a wombo combo. Ionic Vortex also electrifies everything. And with them if caught and sent flying around, the electricity won't be grounded. It'll be stuck in them, that's going to be a pain.

The key factors however are Radiant Sweep. Once Alex and James gets caught in it, they can be filled with lightning and neon with ease. Them being reliant on melee attacks would get them caught in this. Once they are, well, they'll be floating, again lightning can't be grounded if it hits them. Meaning more damage. Then afterward, they're either vaporized or restrained by neon. And I really can't see them getting out of that one

The key factors of Delsin and Cole's damage is unsuspecting damage and effects. Delsin's neon and video power would be an entirely new thing and something that Alex and James would never adapt to. The attacks from those could easily destroy or restrain if fired at the right place, and Delsin can do that when they're too busy moving away from or towards Cole. Cole's attacks all deal a bit more damage than military weapons, I'm a bit surprised at the response you once said that they weren't when they casually decimate military forces. Not to mention the stuns. They all have stun effects and if they hit James or Alex once, it can sent them tripping to the ground unable to attack or regenerate. Might be low damage, but a permanent ensnare dps move is more effective than a hit n run ability against someone like Mercer or Heller

Anyway, I finished the game on Good Karma and i'm replaying it on Evil at the moment although I have only made it past the part where you're making your way to Seattle with Reggie. As for Hank, I let him go as I wanted to stay on the strict hero side. I'm looking forward to the evil ending though(hoping it's soomewhat of an improvement over the good), and I assume you went with Good Karma too?

Had the game, not the ps4. Me and a friend made a deal since he got a ps4. He plays it there when I buy it but I also get to play it. And nope, decided to do evil this time. Have to say a hell lot easier too. Fun to disintigrate people. However the ending for me felt... well you'll probably recognize the feeling once you get it.

For your other arguments regarding Cole being overruned, do remember that these are the same creatures that were thought of as weapons of war. Replacing the military very quickly. Also when he easily curbstomps the military, two factors come into mind. Either the conduits are really stronger than the military by a lot, or its just gameplay challenge. Either way, Cole easily beats them.

Delsin being not fast enough I can see. But neither are Alex and James on the supersonic speed. So they'll be seeing each other and what they do. And how will James attack Delsin when Cole who got Alex stuck on the ground with lightning shoots out sitcky rockets at him or a sniper blast? Either way, Delsin might be slow enough to have 'cooldowns' for his abilities, but sometimes that doesn't take effect.

His 'cooldown' between smoke dashes is something James can try to exploit. But will be hard to time right if Delsin is running away or is heading to a smoke vent. Neon would be different as Delsin controls his path. Might hit him but hey he's taken a giant concrete island crushing him before, it'll probably lead a gash but nothing a drain couldn't handle. Video gliding is just too fast. Too fast man.

If concrete serves right, then the concrete moves while Delsin does. So his concrete armor would technically flick away the whipfist like Augustine's dangerous pebbles... Oh how I love that boss fight. See that's an impressive battle when compared to the hulking Beast

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#37 Posted by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan:

I'll get back to you on this topic as soon as i'm finished up regarding my posts for other debates. I've been wanting to debate this topic again since it's been a while, especially since Delsin has come into play.

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#38 Posted by Hollow_Point (1474 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by z3n_spyder616 (104 posts) - - Show Bio

and then the proto-conduits is born.....

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#40 Edited by UndinehunterTitan (297 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: Pope I'll say this now, I'll vote for you on the CAV in the Delsin and Cole vs Alex and James. In terms of debating, you beat him, already. I don't beam to mean but I don't like his debating style. And really, your debating style trumps him already.

If you'd like I'd want a rematch with you sometime next month if you can. A Cav or a regular thread (continuing here maybe) I'm okay with either if you have the time. If not, well, still here to firmly defend those two

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#41 Edited by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@undinehuntertitan:

Yeah, i'll take you on whenever i'm finished at least three of my current match ups and when you're ready mate.

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#42 Posted by godofnick (762 posts) - - Show Bio

Delsin would just be a distraction for the Prototypes where as Cole would be the actual brute power. Cole is more than powerful enough to take both on (not 2v1, just 1v1) so as long as Delsin is fighting in this with Cole, the Conduits win.

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#43 Posted by Parryboy (1194 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure Cole won several of the debates at other sites, but that's not the point.

Cole can call down lightning at near instant speed and lightning has about 50 000 degrees In a second and he can suspend it for as long as 10 seconds. It Alex or Heller gets hit (which it will, because the two hasn't shown to dodge lighting) they get to bet like Mercer when that nuke exploded.

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#44 Posted by gingerpenny (2401 posts) - - Show Bio

The inFAMOUS team would win

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#45 Posted by Parryboy (1194 posts) - - Show Bio

This is why Conduits wins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwZLKdP8jJk

See that stun baton?

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#46 Posted by lethalsmash (120 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say the Prototypes would win but I've heard some good arguments on the contrary. I've come to think it would be a stomp in favor of the prototypes if in close combat cause of all the weapons they have but in long range the infamous guys may win because I guess electricity could effect them. But Alex in his armored form would still be invulnerable to electricity it seems, it would be like shocking a rhino with a shell around it, it would bother and maybe hurt him but definitely not put him down. And same with fire it seems.

Claws or blade through the heart, end of Cole and Deslin.

And despite what most people think, I believe Cole would stand a better chance against either of the 2 with his electricity than Deslin with any power.

This is in no way a bad or dumb battle though, very similar games, gamplay style, and character developmemt, and the games came out at the same times, almost.

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#47 Posted by Parryboy (1194 posts) - - Show Bio

@lethalsmash:

On the contrary the story of inFamous is better than Prototype, and Prototype felt like another Hulk UD game with actual gore.

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#48 Posted by lethalsmash (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@parryboy: Well I do agree, I never said otherwise. I just said they're similar in that they're superhero like, get more powerful throughout the game and by the end are over powered, fight both mutated bad guys as well as a military or militia, there's always that presence that they could be a bad guy, and all the characters get their powers through accidents and must master them. But yes infamous is a better story line and the characters have more personality in them as well.

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#49 Posted by Hollow_Point (1474 posts) - - Show Bio

Cole is too powerful and delsin can at the very least be a good distraction, though I think her can do some pretty good damage as well. Conduits win

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#50 Posted by Enemybird (5170 posts) - - Show Bio

I've played and completed all infamous & prototype titles. Its true that an electrified baton slowed Alex down but it didn't stop him. In fact throughout the game Alex was practically unstoppable. Nothing short of a nuclear weapon could incapacitate him. The temperature of a nuke can reach (180,000,000 F). Cole's most powerful attack a lightning bolt is ( 53,000 F). Its true that we don't know what Alex's threshold is but considering he can tank a themobaric weapons, chances are Cole's less powerful attacks will not be able to put Alex down fast enough, not to mention Alex can put on armor to increase his defense and he can regen. Lets face it, it will take one shot form either Alex or James to end this. They have plenty of AOE, devastators, and long distance attacks to do just that. Cole is good but he is out of his league, he has never faced anything as powerful as Alex or James. Delsin's has decent mobility and a nice healing factor but he lacks the stopping power. Alex and James take this!