COIE Anti Monitor and Trigon vs Adult Franklin Richards and Akheneten

COIE version

Akenhenten that beat council of godheads .

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I have a very low opinion of COIE Anti-Monitor. I put him at herald level in actual battle, with universal DC. Sort of like Dr. Doom. Doom could destroy the universe but in straight-up battle he wouldn't beat Silver Surfer.

Anyways, Trigon has some low showings, no? Silent Armor? I admittedly haven't read many arcs involving Trigon.

From what I know, team 2 should win.

@avatar_of_green said:

He fought the Spectre at his absolute best which puts him way above herald level.

The Spectre at his absolute best was implied to be able to solo the crisis by the presence. Apart from that i agree.

team 1 easily

AF couldn't even beat the mad celestials by himself

The anti-moniter ate hits from full-power SA kryptonians. That already puts him over herald tier.

@odinson12387: I know Akheneten destroyed godheads but they are nowhere near Celestial in power amd Adult Frankil Richards is their equal if not greater in power. I don't see how Trigon could do anything against Anti-Monitor. This looks to me like an easy win for team 1.

COIE AM Solos .

We know for a fact that Trigon and the Spectre were roughly equal in terms of power, or atleast the only two who reached a certain level according to how the Monitor measured these things.

Ofc the COIE Spectre that faced the AM was boosted by an assortment of mages, in Trigons case there are none of those around... but on the other hand he doesn't have any qualms about consuming the universe if he needs some extra punch.

@outside_85: So what do you want to say?

That Trigon can, more than likely, do as much damage to the AM as the Spectre could.

I'd say Ahknaten alone has this. He had access to and wielded power from HOTU.

@outside_85: Ues but Spectre lost that fight,or are you talking about Trigon being able to do as much damage as full power Spectre.

He didn't loose it, since this was the AM at his most powerful and on the tip of total victory, the Spectre then went into a coma while the AM was now possible to defeat by the remaining heroes... and a cheapshot from Darkseid. But yes, I am saying Trigon could do the same amount of damage... it's just not certain there's going to be much of a universe left if he as to gear up.

trigon is nowhere near spectre.

@outside_85: Yeah but it doesn't matter sence this is AM and Trigon on the same team so they are not fighting each other but against AFR and Akheneten.

Scan for that?

That scan I posted says otherwise. Bear in mind that both the Monitor, Anti-Monitor and Trigon were back then almost exclusively written by their creator Marv Wolfman

True... but you were the one who posted this:

:)

@outside_85: Truth. In my head it was AM and AFR vs Trigon and Akheneten (we are all stupid sometimes) :)

@costy21: So you want to use COIE Anti-Monitor after he absorbed his entire universe? The most amped he ever was? Cause he still lost to the Spectre.

Seriously youre barking up the wrong tree. During the whole event his W/L record was like 2-7. CoIE Anti-Monitor was getting owned on Qward. Dont come at me when you clearly never read it.

@krleavenger: I am so down to crush COIE AM here. You guys are all out of your league on this one. Lets go.

Tell me how COIE AM would even hurt FR or Akhetenen? You think anti-matter would work on them? Cause that is all AM has to work with.

He was almost killed by a weakened (anti-matter sun) Supergirl in battle on his home turf on Qward. He was defeated in combat on separate occasions by Spectre, Alex Luthor, Darkseid, 2 different Supermen, and others. It really was a bad showing for him.

Many bad guys can blow up a universe. AM was using his Anti-Matter cannon. Barry Allen destroyed it. Doctor Doom was using Molecule Man's powers. That doesnt mean in battle Doom would crush anyone who isnt universal though.

I asked you for a scan where it says The Spectre at his absolute best was implied to be able to solo the crisis by the presence.

That`s all

@avatar_of_green: Why are you saying that only to me? A guy can consume universes to increase his power. He has control not just over Anti-Matter but also over other universal elements like time and space,he is invulnerable to multi galaxy busters. Has god like strength and can manipulate reality. If we are talking about AM before COIE than that is other story.

Also Am still wrecks.

@avatar_of_green said:

First off when Supergirl was fighting Anti-Monitor he was not at full power, nor was he at when he was defeated by Darkseid and 2 different Supermen.

AM at his peck was at the end of issue 10 of COIE their he basically had the powers of not only all the universes he destroyed but of all the heroes as well.

And when Spectre (An abstract level being) fought peck AM in the same issue he was also amped by all the mystic like Dr Fate, Phantom Stranger, Zatanna, etc. and even then the fight ended in a stalemate.

@krleavenger: @jwwprod: why would we use the peak version of COIE Anti-Monitor? We don't always use IG Thanos, it has to be specified.

AM wasn't weak on Qward, that was base Anti-Monitor. This fight is using base AM. It doesn't say "COIE at absolute maximum peak power". In actuality, by the time he nearly died on Qward he had absorbed countless universes which made him even stronger, so he was incredibly amped, if anything, and still almost died against Supergirl. Supergirl, who again was weakened, proven by Earth 2 Superman (also a kryptonian) being 1-shotted by a random goon on Qward, saying his powers were different there, and not being able to use X-ray vision while there.

Then, when he LOST to Spectre, you mean? He was trying to destroy the positive matter multiverse. Fact. Did he succeed? No. The universe still existed. He did not "stalemate" Spectre, he lost at his absolute peak. Despite being amped by his entire universe (equal to the DC multiverse in power) and all of the DC multiverse except for 5 universes, he still lost to Spectre who was amped by 5 magicians from Earth Prime and Earth 2.

If he was actually a universe buster he would have just destroyed the remaining multiverses. He instead needed an Anti-Matter cannon. If he was universal in DC on his own he should have destroyed the universe after he came back from losing to Spectre. Instead he got his ass kicked several more times.

Anti-Monitor never existed prior to COIE. That is the event which established the Monitors and a larger multiversal heirarchy. He has become much MORE effective in battle since COIE. I assure you, he lost 6 or 7 times in COIE and never succeed in defeating anyone in battle except Supergirl and Earth 2 Wonder Woman. His super-amped version's blasts FAILED to kill Superboy Prime. So there is his COMBAT DC limit right there.

I promise, you guys are barking up the wrong tree here. When I found CV I was shocked at how much people overrate the COIE AM. It is literally crazy to me, like I am reading a different comic from you guys.

No need to talk that way.We all have different opinions.It's not like I said Galactus would beat Hulk and Superman (sence Galactus can't even hurt Hulk and Superman).COIE AM looked really impressive to me but do you know when I read that comic?10 years ago.Maybe I'm remember it all wrong but he looks really powerful to me and him being beaten up by SUper Girld is the worst thing in the world sence he was taking hits from Multi-Solar busters.

@krleavenger: my bad. It is more directed to the other guy. AM is definitely powerful now but putting him against Franklin Richards and Akheneten is laughable to me, that is all.

@costy21: narrated by presence as it revives the Spectre

@zangetsusama01 said:

@costy21: narrated by presence as it revives the Spectre

Thanks i was searching for that scan.

@zangetsusama01: i had to go on a hunt for this scan since i lost it a while ago

Depends if Akhenaten has the HOTU

I mean ... he either has the HotU or he doesn't, right?

Either regular human or god.

There's no middle ground.

"Do or do not, there is no try"

@asgardianbrony: I agree with you always you know ur stuff?! Akeneten is crwzy strong so is afr I can't see them losing this , Franklin bodied like 3 celestials at once !!!

@zangetsusama01: Thank you. Scan saved

@w12yeah:

What makes losing to Mad Celestials a bad feat??

They tanked multiple blows from IG, UN, U-Entropy guns...and according to one of the Reeds, these universal destroying weapons only delayed the MC momentary...

I doubt either of team 1 would walk away from that kind of bombardment!!

@cosmic_reign:

the mad celestials are weak an ig can beat them that is just pis also

this coie antimonotor he can beat the mad celestial easily if this is new 52 ill vote team 2 but its not

Good point. Anti-Monitor often doesn't fight at his peak so I'll give you credit for that.

Supergirl was definitely not fighting an amped Anti-Monitor. All the pre-crisis heroes were shown to be at the mercy of the anti-matter waves in issues 3-5 of COIE and would've died without aid from the Monitor and you want to tell me Supergirl alone could face off AM with that given power? Pretty obvious he wasn't stronger as you brought up that a mere goon was able to one-shot Superman, so is that goon > Anti-Monitor?

He actually did succeed in retconning the entire positive matter multiverse (infinite universes) except for one universe which Spectre saved. I wouldn't call that a win for Spectre, especially when he was put in a comatose state from that fight while the Anti-Monitor was still active. If anything, the Anti-Monitor got the bigger end of the stick in that duel.

He used the anti-matter cannon because the Earths were trapped in a nether-verse at the time and it was a more efficient method of taking them out all at once. Also, peak COIE Anti-Monitor absorbed all the anti-matter in his universe which would include the power siphoned by the cannon.

It was ONE battle that required several components, teamwork, draining energy from AM rather than just brute force, and using his own power against him as well as aid from Darkseid just to beat an Anti-Monitor that wasn't at full power. The way you're phrasing it, Anti-Monitor was jobbing as hard as Molecule Man against Sentry but they clearly showed that post-Spectre fight AM was still well beyond being beaten through sheer force.

Bullshit. Nothing AM has done since COIE comes even close in feats. SCW Anti-Monitor beat a few fodder green lanterns then got badly injured by a galaxy level explosion then got trashed by Superboy Prime. Blackest Night at least had him powerful enough to fight all 7 lantern corps even while drained. Pretty impressive but then he got dismissed by Nekron with a flick of the wrist. Brightest Day had him getting outplayed by an inexperienced white lantern and then getting clowned by the Entity. New 52 did establish the higher cosmic pyramid but that doesn't compensate for this versions lack of feats. New 52 Anti-Monitor still needed to absorb multiple universes just to stand up to Darkseid.

You're not reading a different comic, you're reading a different damn comic company.

He succeeded in beating and draining an entire roster of pre-crisis heroes from multiple universes.

Also, he only lost twice in combat (the second time was done by sheer plot convenience and a lot of prep), his plans however, were foiled like 6 times.

Yep. You definitely read a different story (as if it wasn't obvious already since you think COIE Anti-Monitor is only herald level). That all happened after Dr. Light was absorbing the Anti-Monitor's power source, Alexander Luthor was draining him, gets burned and further drained by radioactive woman, gets blasted by Harbringer and the league AND having his own power fired at him, AND having his own demons destroy him inside out by the sorcerers. ALL OF THIS right after the Anti-Monitor had just fought Spectre and retconned the multiverse then moved Earth-1 into the anti-matter universe AND created those demons in the first place to kill Earth's heroes. Superman even comments that Superboy only survived because AM was getting weaker.

Jesus Christ, how could you leave out SO MUCH context?

I agree, if there's anything I learned from debating with people is that ignorance is a dangerous thing.

t2 thanks to ak cuz of his power connecting to The Heart of The Universe.