Clone Wars/Rebels: Darth Maul vs Ahsoka Tano

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ZR2011

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Poll Clone Wars/Rebels: Darth Maul vs Ahsoka Tano (155 votes)

Darth Maul 70%
Ahsoka Tano 30%

Fighters:

1. Darth Maul (peak fighting condition)

2. Ahsoka Tano (peak fighting condition)

Motivation: Both fighters are blood-lusted and serious; neither underestimate their opponent. Ahsoka killed Savage and Maul killed Kanan.

Location: Where Rey and Kylo Ren fought in TROS

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*FIGHTERS ARE AT THEIR PRIME FIGHTING CONDITION

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ZR2011

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If you vote, please justify your decision!

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Fetts

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I'd reckon Maul. Anger, hatred, and pain are far more likely to service him than Ahsoka. He's far more experienced and consistently trades blows with a higher class of Jedi. When Savage died, he even landed a blow on Sidious (granted he was toying with most of the time, but an impressive feat nonetheless).

Ahsoka was able to fend off Vader at her best. And while she was certainly capable of keeping him at bay, I have no doubt that Maul at his prime could do the same, if not better.

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ZR2011

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@fetts: is that Maul’s best combat feat?

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Fetts

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ZR2011

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@fetts: I just watched the fight on youtube cause I never saw it before (i started Clone Wars in the season where Maul comes back a few days ago) and I agree that it's a great feat. When he took out the dark saber, Sidious was actually pretty pressed and resorted to force ragdoll

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eslay03

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I’d give it to Maul for the majority. I know Ahsoka held her own against Vader, but I think Maul could do just as well if put in the same scenario.

It’s close, but I vote Maul.

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ZR2011

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Any arguments for Ahsoka?

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DarthAdi

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#8 DarthAdi  Online

Could go either way.

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RGR

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#9  Edited By RGR

The dark side is a shortcut to power. If Ahsoka uses it, that might be enough for her to overcome Maul. Not sure if that's what OP is going for with the bloodlust thing, though.

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ZR2011

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@rgr: I more meant that they’re angry and fighting to do serious damage, not that Ahsoka is tapping into the dark side. They are still themselves at their peaks of their power

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deactivated-5e80d2cfcca66

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Hypnos0929

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Maul should win without p.i.s

He's got more experience, his species tends to be superior in physicals (the exception possibly being speed). Also when Savage died Maul got stupid strong.

Way I see it is Ashoka dies if she stops moving or goes for a blade lock.

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MattyBoi

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#13  Edited By MattyBoi

Ahsoka wins in a good fight.

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RGR

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#15  Edited By RGR

@zr2011: But that's the thing, anger is the dark side:

Anger, fear, agression - the dark side are they.

-Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back.

Any Jedi who is fighting with anger is tapping into the dark side.

Anyways, I take it you were going for "full focus" or something to that effect, in which case Maul wins.

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Hypnos0929

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@zr2011: plot induced stupidity.

Like how in comics "The power of friendship" helps the 3 orphans avoid bullets that ricochet off Batman in a shootout. Or how people suddenly forget how to use certain abilities that would resolve the issue faster.

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firelordiroh

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Maul.

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ZR2011

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Bump

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DrunkHC

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#19  Edited By DrunkHC

Maul at his best with access to his double-bladed lightsaber should have a greater chance of winning but it would be a great fight Ashoka has chance for winning too.

and rightly where there was PIS in Ahsoka's feats??

Ahsoka from the beginning was considered an jedi with great potential was trained by a exceptional swordsman like Anakin. Tano has a consistent evolution of power throughout the work! Ahsoka (rebels) is an duelist and an user of force with several years of combat experience

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mossbeard

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Not sure Maul has jobbed way too many times

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#21  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

Ahsoka more or less equaled Rebels Maul, though she held the slight upper hand in the end. In anycase, TCW Maul is stronger than Rebels Maul, and TPM Maul is much stronger than TCW Maul.

In short, TPM Maul >>>> TCW Maul > Rebels Maul ~ Ahsoka.

We also have Vader scaling. Ahsoka was losing -- albeit narrowly -- to a weaker version of Vader than the one TPM Maul decisively bested.

TPM Maul >> ANH Vader > Rebels Vader > Ahsoka.

I'd be willing to side with Ahsoka if you gave her some more years of training and study, which will more than likely be the case in future continuity. But in Rebels, she's just too pre-prime. Probably makes it past Rebels Maul, but his TCW incarnation stops her cold. She gives them both immense difficulty, however.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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^what???? Prime Vader >> Maul and TCW Maul >|= Rebels Maul > TPM Maul

Ahsoka holding her own against Vader is enough to say she wins. It’s undeniably better than all of Mauls feats. Ahsoka is above Maul decisively, and the only people that say otherwise hype Maul up too much.

Ahsoka’s performance against Vader puts her slightly below Dooku as a combatant, and everyone knows Dooku > Maul.

Also I know there’s a statement indicating Maul is superior, but it’s extremely discreet and vague, and not to mention there is another just as credible quote implying Ahsoka is superior, so the quotes cancel out and make them null and void.

This fight is extremely close, but honestly it’s clear who wins.

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King-Ragnar

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She'd obviously beat Rebels Maul given that it's the weakest version of the character. TPM or TCW Maul flatten Ashoka.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@zr2011: yes, Ahsoka wins. Maul is overhyped, and jobs in nearly every fight making it in his character to do so. Maul has no feat near temporarily equaling Vader. To further confirm my above post Ahsoka after years of not using the force, not using her lightsabers, and still being massively pre prime is able to match the most powerful version of Maul on screen at least temporarily.

Rebels Ahsoka >>>> TCW Ahsoka

Rebels Ahsoka >|= Maul

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El_mago

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Ashoka after a very good fight Indeed maul pulls out a challenge to the togruta but ultimately looses do to not really have a comparision on feats

sidious vs maul? heavily Taken out of context and its was clearly shown Palpatine was basically toying with them

Tano s feat against Vader puts to shame any feat maul has on canon

Tpm maul vs ANH Vader? irrelevant and a non canon source since ages further backed up by chee on his official Twitter account.

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@emmafrostxmen: Like, Rebels Maul explicitly scales over Rebels Ahsoka ala Inquisitorius (he was holding back too, plus he’s confirmed more powerful).

Though, Maul when rage amped matched Sidious in bladelock temporarily, an indication of nigh-parity, so bloodlusted Maul should be way more fearsome.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@the_buddha_: ....no

Ahsoka was trying to have a conversation with the seventh sister, and was toying around hence her turning off her lightsabers. She treated them like fodder and could have easily taken on more than 2, it was explicitly obvious (she even kicked away the fifth brother almost immediately like he was fodder which he was)

Ahsoka Vs Vader >>> Maul’s feats, I’m sorry but it’s a fact that you’re going to have to deal with

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#28  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

@the_buddha_: also Palpatine having fun >>>>>>>>>>>> Upset Maul

Bloodlusted does not mean rage amp (You don’t even need to be mad to be bloodlusted), and if it did it would apply to Ahsoka as well who has already blocked force attacks from Palpatine after an insanely long duel with arguably the best duelist in the verse

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deactivated-5f52e354205ba

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@emmafrostxmen: Well, the thing here specifically denoted he thinks she killed savage, which gave him the Sidious amp anyway, so I mean, yeah.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@the_buddha_: yes and Maul killed Kanan... the OP likely meant for this to be an equal amp because it’s kinda hard to weigh who would get madder about what....you know? Also Ahsoka seeing another Jedi get killed would likely make this an equal amp anyway, so many people that helped raise her and teach her were murderer and this would likely set her off. A light sider tapping into the dark side is always a bigger amp than a dark sider tapping into the dark side. After all Ahsoka didn’t need an amp to contend with Sidious

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@el_mago said:

Tano s feat against Vader puts to shame any feat maul has on canon

Ahsoka holding her own against Vader is enough to say she wins. It’s undeniably better than all of Mauls feats. Ahsoka is above Maul decisively, and the only people that say otherwise hype Maul up too much.

Totally. It's not like Rebels Maul stalemated a fresher Ahsoka than the one who fought Vader, and dueled her longer than Vader did.

Anything Rebels Ahsoka has done, Rebels Maul absorbs it via canonically being equal to her in a rough sense.

So yes, like I said, TPM Maul >>>> TCW Maul > Rebels Maul ~ Ahsoka. She might defeat Rebels Maul, but nothing beyond that.

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El_mago

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@lord_tenebrous: rebels maul is more powerful than the clone wars one where did you get that scaling chain?

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@the_buddha_: yes and Maul killed Kanan... the OP likely meant for this to be an equal amp because it’s kinda hard to weigh who would get madder about what....you know? Also Ahsoka seeing another Jedi get killed would likely make this an equal amp anyway, so many people that helped raise her and teach her were murderer and this would likely set her off. A light sider tapping into the dark side is always a bigger amp than a dark sider tapping into the dark side.

We haven't seen a bloodlusted Ahsoka, so we don't know her abillties. We have seen a bloodlusted Maul, who has been able to compete with Sidious. Much more than we can say for Ahsoka.

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Amonfire1776

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Tano beats Maul...she's Vader tier and his constant overconfidence leads him to usually lose to opponents he should beat easily.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#35  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

@el_mago:

Tpm maul vs ANH Vader? irrelevant and a non canon source since ages further backed up by chee on his official Twitter account.

Chee saying that legends material is no longer canon within the legends universe, years after decanonizing the entirety of said legends universe doesn't really hold any weight.

Prior to the 2014 wipe, Chee confirmed it to be canon multiple times, and the comic was referenced in other canon material which renders it official material as per the canon guidelines.

Even then, the Chee quote you're referring didn't say that Resurrection was non-canon, he said it was non-continuity, which is not the same thing. Being non-continuity means that Resurrection isn't an event that happened in the official Star Wars timeline, but that doesn't mean it's not legitimate material.

The whole purpose of the Star Wars Infinities series was to present material from a what-if point of view. As in, this is what would have happened if such and such continuity event did not happen. In that regard, Resurrection, while not official continuity, is still canon, and stands as a legitimate representation of what would have happened if TPM Maul and ANH Vader ever crossed blades.

Which was the entire point of the comic's existence.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@el_mago said:

@lord_tenebrous: rebels maul is more powerful than the clone wars one where did you get that scaling chain?

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El_mago

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@lord_tenebrous: matt martin is not that of a validable source sometimes if you take his arguments seriously then exar kun >DE sidious

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El_mago

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@lord_tenebrous: and the chee argument holds weight on both continuites since the former is the keeper of the holocron

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@lord_tenebrous: he did not stalemate her in any sense of the word. He fought her when she was just trying to get away and stop Erza (hence her leaving right when someone else could fight him).

Ahsoka was not struggling and neither was Maul, it was a simple exchange they had, and it is not enough at all to scale Maul to all of Ahsoka's feats.

Also a much, MUCH weaker version of Ahsoka was able to “stalemate” a stronger version of Maul in a upcoming episode of the close wars season 7... Prime Vader > Rebels Ahsoka >|= TCW Maul >|= Rebels Maul > TPM Maul who only has one feat and that is beating a featless Jedi master and a featless padawan.

Point is Maul doesn’t have a single feat close to holding her own against Prime Vader, then immediately after being tired and worn out by him having to block a force atttack from Sidious...debatably the strongest character in the verse who stomped Maul when he got serious

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@lord_tenebrous: completely wrong. Ahsoka with no amp was able to block Sidious’ force attack. Maul with the amp was only able to barely contend with non serious Sidious who didn’t even utilize the force, and only chose to duel.....Sidious was at least serious against Ahsoka because that was his chance to rule all of space-time....

Do not use his fight with Sidious as a credible feat because it’s factual that Sidious wasn’t trying at a single point in that fight.

Ahsoka + Amp will always be above Maul. Ahsoka with no amp matched a Sidious tier duelist in Vader....Maul still has no usable feat on this level

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Redshift_Bacon

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I would favor Ahsoka in the force. She preforms great against Vader who wasnt holding back. (And who has the best TK feats plus scaling to back it up) and withstood a post-ROTS Sidious’s Force TK.

Maul on the other hand was ragdolled by Pre-ROTS Sidious even when rage amped. I think Maul has the slight edge in sabers, despite Ahsokas preformance against Vader, who with scaling should be far above Maul. Scaling just isnt a good enough argument here jmo.

Id back either one, even split for me.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@emmafrostxmen:

he did not stalemate her in any sense of the word.

Literally did. They dueled for an extremely long amount of time, and the fight ended without either opponent having won. It was a draw.

He fought her when she was just trying to get away and stop Erza (hence her leaving right when someone else could fight him).

Then that just makes her extra-motivated to defeat Maul, since he's the obstacle between her and Ezra.

Ahsoka was not struggling and neither was Maul, it was a simple exchange they had,

Baseless speculation.

and it is not enough at all to scale Maul to all of Ahsoka's feats.

It is 100% more than enough. Maul dueled a fresher Ahsoka, and for a longer amount of time. They are factually near equal.

Also a much, MUCH weaker version of Ahsoka was able to “stalemate” a stronger version of Maul in a upcoming episode of the close wars season 7...

PIS, not relevant to this discussion.

Prime Vader > Rebels Ahsoka >|= TCW Maul >|= Rebels Maul > TPM Maul who only has one feat and that is beating a featless Jedi master and a featless padawan.

Pre-prime Vader > Rebels Ahsoka ~ Rebels Maul < TCW Maul <<<<< TPM Maul who isn't 12 years out of practice and hasn't lost a ton of power due to loss of body mass & over a decade of weakening.

Point is Maul doesn’t have a single feat close to holding her own against Prime Vader,

Maul outright competing with the same person who held her own against pre-prime Vader throws him directly into her tier.

then immediately after being tired and worn out by him having to block a force atttack from Sidious... Ahsoka with no amp was able to block Sidious’ force attack.

Ahsoka temporarily blocking Sidious' alchemy that was intended to grab Ezra, and do nothing else, isn't something that scales her anywhere near Sidious' real power.

Maul with the amp was only able to barely contend with non serious Sidious who didn’t even utilize the force, and only chose to duel.

Maul with the amp was able to genuinely compete with a 100% serious Sidious in a duel, which proves that he will utterly trounce Ahsoka in this matchup.

Do not use his fight with Sidious as a credible feat because it’s factual that Sidious wasn’t trying at a single point in that fight.

Baseless speculation.

Ahsoka + Amp will always be above Maul.

Also baseless speculation.

Ahsoka with no amp matched a Sidious tier duelist in Vader..

If Vader was a Sidious tier duelist, he wouldn't have struggled with Ahsoka, or Eeth Koth, or Ben Kenobi, or Luke Skywalker, or pretty much every single half-decent foe he's ever fought.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@el_mago said:

@lord_tenebrous: matt martin is not that of a validable source sometimes if you take his arguments seriously then exar kun >DE sidious

Martin is part the Lucasfilm Storygroup, and a creative executive in the company. He is definitely a valid source, and IIRC it was Tom Vietch who said Kun > Sidious.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@el_mago said:

@lord_tenebrous: and the chee argument holds weight on both continuites since the former is the keeper of the holocron

This doesn't contradict what I said.

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Ahsoka was trying to have a conversation with the seventh sister, and was toying around hence her turning off her lightsabers. She treated them like fodder and could have easily taken on more than 2, it was explicitly obvious (she even kicked away the fifth brother almost immediately like he was fodder which he was)

Referencing Malachor here.

No Caption Provided

Given that the “logical choice” is pairing Maul with “the weakest of the Jedi”, it then follows that Maul is the strongest of the group. Furthermore, the gap between Ahsoka and Maul is noticeable enough that Kanan (and Ahsoka) are willing to trust Maul with Ezra (Ahsoka and Kanan clearly care for him and likely won’t place him in danger unless absolutely necessary).

This is reflected in Maul and Ahsoka’s respective performances with the Inquisitorius.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04V0nS8AP2g (Exhibit A)

No Caption Provided

(Exhibit B)

In both cases, we have Ahsoka’s superiority to the Inquisitors being evident (less so for the second clip, but I’m letting that slide). In the first clip, she drives them back with some effort, and in the second she (along with Kanan) drive back another pair of Inquisitors. To contrast, Maul casually annihilates them:

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

Which is supported by the claim that Maul “does so easily” in reference to defeating the Inquisitors. Ahsoka handles the Inquisitors the way Maul handles Qui-Gon in TPM--by taking them out in an extended fight. Maul handles the Inquisitors the way Sidious handles the B-Team in ROTS. From the multiple pieces of evidence that support the claim, we can establish that Maul is indeed a superior to Ahsoka as of Rebels, by a noticeable margin nonetheless.

No Caption Provided

Ahsoka Vs Vader >>> Maul’s feats, I’m sorry but it’s a fact that you’re going to have to deal with

Which is an idea that is outright contradicted by the evidence I've brought up thus far. Though, do note that I hold Rebels as Maul's prime, and thus don't have TCW Maul casually stomping Ahsoka, for example. Maul being out of practice means nothing in regards to his power. In canon, Ben is far more powerful during Rebels and A New Hope, but I'd wager he's way less skilled.

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El_mago

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@el_mago said:

@lord_tenebrous: matt martin is not that of a validable source sometimes if you take his arguments seriously then exar kun >DE sidious

Martin is part the Lucasfilm Storygroup, and a creative executive in the company. He is definitely a valid source, and IIRC it was Tom Vietch who said Kun > Sidious.

i dunno some executive producers can said statements that are not that reliable in this type of situations whether or not are part of the storygroup

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El_mago

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#48  Edited By El_mago
@lord_tenebrous said:
@el_mago said:

@lord_tenebrous: and the chee argument holds weight on both continuites since the former is the keeper of the holocron

This doesn't contradict what I said.

it does considering the holocron contains all of star wars media including canon and legends sources with the non canon ones(resurrection fight,tales and what if) being apart

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@the_buddha_: nothing you showed puts Maul on a level that would let him do as well against Vader...literally nothing

The quote you showed is contradicted by another quote that says the only people that can match Ahsoka are Vader and Palpatine. Therefore since both quotes have equal validity they are null and void and unusable.

Ahsoka stomped the seventh sister and the fifth brother who have solid TK feats and dueling feats that put them around Kanan level each (if not above), Maul did the same with an added featless fodder. I don’t see how that’s far more impressive, and both performed the feats easily therefore I’m not sure why you’re using it as an anti feat for Ahsoka. Ahsoka was having fun, and she is also out of practice from not having a duel since when she was a teenager which was with Maul therefore making them both equally out of practice.

Ahsoka is a prodigious padawan as stated numerous times her being able to contend with Maul makes sense in universe. She was able to contend and not get stomped by Grevious, she should be able to do the same with Maul...it’s completely consistent and not PIS

She can keep up with Vader....Maul has not a single feats that says he can.

This entire thread represents Maul being overhyped

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@emmafrostxmen: I’ll respond to the bulk of your post later (on my phone atm), but the original source material (rebels in this case, including the “its the obvious choice” part) supersedes quotes from Dave Filoni. Furthermore, the quote refers to characters revealed as of Rebels 2x01, iirc, so it’s null to Claim it applies to Maul, as he’s not revealed.