Cloak vs Sandman
Both are bloodlusted (Cloak thinks Sandman killed Dagger, Sandman thinks Cloak killed his daughter), so they won't just continually try to avoid being attacked, nor will they use BFR. Otherwise win by any means. Other than being bloodlusted, they are in character.
Battle takes place in a construction zone in a small city at night, starting at 50'.
Can either win?
Cloak just dumps him in the Dark Dimension. It is very much an attack, not just a BFR.
Cloaks main attack is to BFR you, if he does not have that option he can not really do much.
Dumping in the dark dimension is OK and not BFR for this fight. But can Cloak successfully get all or even most of Sandman inside his cloak?Cloak just dumps him in the Dark Dimension. It is very much an attack, not just a BFR.
Cloaks main attack is to BFR you, if he does not have that option he can not really do much.
@Owie: Yes, intangible and crap loads of shadow tendrils to throw him in, even if it is a little at a time.
But Sandman can always add more sand from the construction site. And he's pretty fast and can move very complexly; I don't know that Cloak can catch him all. Not all of Cloak is usually intangible anyway, right? For instance let's say Sandman secretly sent a tendril of sand from around the back and smacked Cloak on the back of the head, that might conceivably knock him out. I'm not sure about that, but I have vague memories of Cloak getting knocked down by one thing or another.@Owie: Yes, intangible and crap loads of shadow tendrils to throw him in, even if it is a little at a time.
@Owie said:
@MisterWhisper said:Dumping in the dark dimension is OK and not BFR for this fight. But can Cloak successfully get all or even most of Sandman inside his cloak?Cloak just dumps him in the Dark Dimension. It is very much an attack, not just a BFR.
Cloaks main attack is to BFR you, if he does not have that option he can not really do much.
He doesn't need to get all of Sandman, he just needs to get the main grain of sand that holds Sandman's essence of whatever inside. Sooner or later he should be able to.
I was thinking about that, but I would think that Sandman would be pretty protective of that grain. He could leave it hidden in some small cranny that Cloak wouldn't even be looking for--it's not like Cloak knows about it. What do you think of the possibility of Cloak getting KOed by behind, or some such strategy?@Owie said:
@MisterWhisper said:Dumping in the dark dimension is OK and not BFR for this fight. But can Cloak successfully get all or even most of Sandman inside his cloak?Cloak just dumps him in the Dark Dimension. It is very much an attack, not just a BFR.
Cloaks main attack is to BFR you, if he does not have that option he can not really do much.
He doesn't need to get all of Sandman, he just needs to get the main grain of sand that holds Sandman's essence of whatever inside. Sooner or later he should be able to.
But that's not quite what I mean. Of course, if he's trying to draw him in, then he's intangible inside his cloak. BUT, not ALL of him is intangible--just the interior of his cloak, unless his powers have changed over the years, in which case I'd be glad to see scans. But in his classic condition, at least, it seems to me that the OUTSIDE of his cloak is still solid, as is his head. He's not classically intangible in the sense that he can walk through walls, it's just that his cloak is a portal to the dark dimension, and of course he can wrap it around himself to teleport away. I went through a bunch of old Cloak and Dagger comics, and in all of them, he often absorbed bullets etc. into the inside of his cloak. But he never (from what I could find) absorbed anything into the outside of his cloak, or into his face/hood area. Nor did he actually ever make his arms or legs intangible when they were projecting from his cloak. He doesn't normally just float, he stands on the ground, so his legs are normally tangible. So I think Sandman could attack him successfully by creating a sandstorm around his legs, or battering him from behind. Here are some scans to support this:@Owie: If he is already drawing him in, he is already intangible.
Most importantly, Cloak is struck on the back of his head and knocked down/out, then is kicked from behind (from the back of his cloak), showing that he can be vulnerable to physical attacks when they come from the back of his cloak and/or on his head.
Here, he is grabbed by some random sewer dwellers--again, he can be grabbed from outside his cloak.
Here, he tries to jump on Punisher and misses, smacking a garbage can, once again not intangible.
Then these two are just showing that his head is not just some kind of shadow form, but physical and with normal anatomy: he has to breathe and can eat normally when he desires.
These are old scans and it's possible that his powers have evolved. But if so, I'd like to see examples of how he can be totally intangible and/or make his head intangible. As I said, I never actually even saw him make his arms or legs truly intangible. So I think a multi-directional attack by Sandman may be effective against Cloak. And I can't see Cloak pulling in every last grain of Sandman's sand.
My only reading experience of cloak is maximum carnage which I haven't read for a while. All I recall is being unimpressed by cloak so sand man wins imo. If carnage can pull himself out I see no reason sand man cannot. Unless maximum carnage isn't how cloak is portrayed consistently.
Cloak was able to hold Thanos for a couple of seconds before Thanos escaped, Sandman is leagues below Thanos..so he isnt' going to make it.
If that is the case then it's other PIS, or some sort of inconsistency on the writers part.@OmegaDynasty said:
Cloak was able to hold Thanos for a couple of seconds before Thanos escaped, Sandman is leagues below Thanos..so he isnt' going to make it.And yet Spiderman is able to make it out of Cloaks cape?
@OmegaDynasty said:
@acer51 said:If that is the case then it's other PIS, or some sort of inconsistency on the writers part.@OmegaDynasty said:
Cloak was able to hold Thanos for a couple of seconds before Thanos escaped, Sandman is leagues below Thanos..so he isnt' going to make it.And yet Spiderman is able to make it out of Cloaks cape?
Im not sure which you bellive is the PIS.
Spiderman Breaking out with some difficulty or Cloak being able to hold Thanos?
Because if you bellive Spiderman breaking out is PIS, you may want to consider the fact he's done it more then once.
Also sorry if my posts were misleading but I actually think Cloak would win.
most people need dagger to protect them inside cloak. otherwise they could get permanently drained or go crazy.
@OmegaDynasty said:
Cloak was able to hold Thanos for a couple of seconds before Thanos escaped, Sandman is leagues below Thanos..so he isnt' going to make it.
I give Cloak a lot of props. I'm just not sure he could get ALL of Sandman in there in the first place. How would he grab every individual grain of sand?
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