Cloak vs Sandman

Avatar image for owie
owie

9544

Forum Posts

286670

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By owie  Moderator
Cloak vs Sandman
 
Both are bloodlusted (Cloak thinks Sandman killed Dagger, Sandman thinks Cloak killed his daughter), so they won't just continually try to avoid being attacked, nor will they use BFR.  Otherwise win by any means.  Other than being bloodlusted, they are in character.
 
Battle takes place in a construction zone in a small city at night, starting at 50'.
 
Can either win?
 
Cloak
Cloak
Sandman
Sandman
Avatar image for deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba
deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba

5989

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Cloak just dumps him in the Dark Dimension. It is very much an attack, not just a BFR.

Cloaks main attack is to BFR you, if he does not have that option he can not really do much.

Avatar image for owie
owie

9544

Forum Posts

286670

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 0

#3  Edited By owie  Moderator
@MisterWhisper said:

Cloak just dumps him in the Dark Dimension. It is very much an attack, not just a BFR.

Cloaks main attack is to BFR you, if he does not have that option he can not really do much.

Dumping in the dark dimension is OK and not BFR for this fight.  But can Cloak successfully get all or even most of Sandman inside his cloak?
Avatar image for deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba
deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba

5989

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@Owie: Yes, intangible and crap loads of shadow tendrils to throw him in, even if it is a little at a time.

Avatar image for owie
owie

9544

Forum Posts

286670

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 0

#5  Edited By owie  Moderator
@MisterWhisper said:

@Owie: Yes, intangible and crap loads of shadow tendrils to throw him in, even if it is a little at a time.

But Sandman can always add more sand from the construction site.  And he's pretty fast and can move very complexly; I don't know that Cloak can catch him all.  Not all of Cloak is usually intangible anyway, right?  For instance let's say Sandman secretly sent a tendril of sand from around the back and smacked Cloak on the back of the head, that might conceivably knock him out.  I'm not sure about that, but I have vague memories of Cloak getting knocked down by one thing or another.
Avatar image for saren
Saren

27947

Forum Posts

213824

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 12

#6  Edited By Saren

@Owie said:

@MisterWhisper said:

Cloak just dumps him in the Dark Dimension. It is very much an attack, not just a BFR.

Cloaks main attack is to BFR you, if he does not have that option he can not really do much.

Dumping in the dark dimension is OK and not BFR for this fight. But can Cloak successfully get all or even most of Sandman inside his cloak?

He doesn't need to get all of Sandman, he just needs to get the main grain of sand that holds Sandman's essence of whatever inside. Sooner or later he should be able to.

Avatar image for owie
owie

9544

Forum Posts

286670

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 0

#7  Edited By owie  Moderator
@CitizenBane said:

@Owie said:

@MisterWhisper said:

Cloak just dumps him in the Dark Dimension. It is very much an attack, not just a BFR.

Cloaks main attack is to BFR you, if he does not have that option he can not really do much.

Dumping in the dark dimension is OK and not BFR for this fight. But can Cloak successfully get all or even most of Sandman inside his cloak?

He doesn't need to get all of Sandman, he just needs to get the main grain of sand that holds Sandman's essence of whatever inside. Sooner or later he should be able to.

I was thinking about that, but I would think that Sandman would be pretty protective of that grain.  He could leave it hidden in some small cranny that Cloak wouldn't even be looking for--it's not like Cloak knows about it.  What do you think of the possibility of Cloak getting KOed by behind, or some such strategy?
Avatar image for lance_bastro
Lance Bastro

5167

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8  Edited By Lance Bastro

cloak.

Avatar image for deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba
deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba

5989

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@Owie: If he is already drawing him in, he is already intangible.

Avatar image for tdk_1997
TDK_1997

20454

Forum Posts

60093

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 153

User Lists: 13

#10  Edited By TDK_1997

Cloak dumps Sandman in the Dark Dimension.

Avatar image for owie
owie

9544

Forum Posts

286670

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 0

#11  Edited By owie  Moderator
@MisterWhisper said:

@Owie: If he is already drawing him in, he is already intangible.

But that's not quite what I mean.  Of course, if he's trying to draw him in, then he's intangible inside his cloak.  BUT, not ALL of him is intangible--just the interior of his cloak, unless his powers have changed over the years, in which case I'd be glad to see scans.  But in his classic condition, at least, it seems to me that the OUTSIDE of his cloak is still solid, as is his head.  He's not classically intangible in the sense that he can walk through walls, it's just that his cloak is a portal to the dark dimension, and of course he can wrap it around himself to teleport away.  I went through a bunch of old Cloak and Dagger comics, and in all of them, he often absorbed bullets etc. into the inside of his cloak.  But he never (from what I could find) absorbed anything into the outside of his cloak, or into his face/hood area.  Nor did he actually ever make his arms or legs intangible when they were projecting from his cloak.  He doesn't normally just float, he stands on the ground, so his legs are normally tangible.  So I think Sandman could attack him successfully by creating a sandstorm around his legs, or battering him from behind.  Here are some scans to support this:
 
Most importantly, Cloak is struck on the back of his head and knocked down/out, then is kicked from behind (from the back of his cloak), showing that he can be vulnerable to physical attacks when they come from the back of his cloak and/or on his head.
 
Here, he is grabbed by some random sewer dwellers--again, he can be grabbed from outside his cloak.
Cloak is grabbed
Cloak is grabbed

 
 

Here, he tries to jump on Punisher and misses, smacking a garbage can, once again not intangible.

Cloak smacks into a grabage can
Cloak smacks into a grabage can

Then these two are just showing that his head is not just some kind of shadow form, but physical and with normal anatomy: he has to breathe and can eat normally when he desires.

 
These are old scans and it's possible that his powers have evolved.  But if so, I'd like to see examples of how he can be totally intangible and/or make his head intangible.  As I said, I never actually even saw him make his arms or legs truly intangible.  So I think a multi-directional attack by Sandman may be effective against Cloak.  And I can't see Cloak pulling in every last grain of Sandman's sand.
Avatar image for jashro44
jashro44

57695

Forum Posts

253

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12  Edited By jashro44

My only reading experience of cloak is maximum carnage which I haven't read for a while. All I recall is being unimpressed by cloak so sand man wins imo. If carnage can pull himself out I see no reason sand man cannot. Unless maximum carnage isn't how cloak is portrayed consistently.

Avatar image for t800willdestroyanything
T800willDestroyAnything

2

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

sandman

Avatar image for jeanroygrant
jeanroygrant

20442

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14  Edited By jeanroygrant

@Lance Bastro said:

cloak.

Avatar image for omegadynasty
OmegaDynasty

10500

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15  Edited By OmegaDynasty

Cloak was able to hold Thanos for a couple of seconds before Thanos escaped, Sandman is leagues below Thanos..so he isnt' going to make it. 
 

Avatar image for rainy
Rainy

1240

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16  Edited By Rainy

Sandman wins via speed blitz.

Avatar image for bluetoothbully
acer51

2695

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By acer51

@OmegaDynasty said:

Cloak was able to hold Thanos for a couple of seconds before Thanos escaped, Sandman is leagues below Thanos..so he isnt' going to make it.

And yet Spiderman is able to make it out of Cloaks cape?

Avatar image for omegadynasty
OmegaDynasty

10500

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18  Edited By OmegaDynasty
@acer51 said:

@OmegaDynasty said:

Cloak was able to hold Thanos for a couple of seconds before Thanos escaped, Sandman is leagues below Thanos..so he isnt' going to make it.

And yet Spiderman is able to make it out of Cloaks cape?

If that is the case then it's other PIS, or some sort of inconsistency on the writers part.  
Avatar image for bluetoothbully
acer51

2695

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19  Edited By acer51

@OmegaDynasty said:

@acer51 said:

@OmegaDynasty said:

Cloak was able to hold Thanos for a couple of seconds before Thanos escaped, Sandman is leagues below Thanos..so he isnt' going to make it.

And yet Spiderman is able to make it out of Cloaks cape?

If that is the case then it's other PIS, or some sort of inconsistency on the writers part.

Im not sure which you bellive is the PIS.

Spiderman Breaking out with some difficulty or Cloak being able to hold Thanos?

Because if you bellive Spiderman breaking out is PIS, you may want to consider the fact he's done it more then once.

Also sorry if my posts were misleading but I actually think Cloak would win.

Avatar image for charlieboy
charlieboy

7179

Forum Posts

248

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 1

#20  Edited By charlieboy

leaning towards cloak.

Avatar image for charlieboy
charlieboy

7179

Forum Posts

248

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 1

#21  Edited By charlieboy

most people need dagger to protect them inside cloak. otherwise they could get permanently drained or go crazy.

Avatar image for owie
owie

9544

Forum Posts

286670

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 0

#22  Edited By owie  Moderator

@OmegaDynasty said:

Cloak was able to hold Thanos for a couple of seconds before Thanos escaped, Sandman is leagues below Thanos..so he isnt' going to make it.

I give Cloak a lot of props. I'm just not sure he could get ALL of Sandman in there in the first place. How would he grab every individual grain of sand?

Avatar image for magneto14
Magneto14

58

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#23  Edited By Magneto14

Cloak couldn't even throw all of Sandman into the Dark Dimension. Sandman would no doubt grow in size and strength with access to enough sand and would therefore easily defeat Cloak.