Civil War Event CaV: BlackSpidey2099 vs Kevd4wg

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#1  Edited By defiant_will

The Civil War | Teams

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=================================================================

The Battle | Thing (Team Defiant) vs Chulk (Team Vulcan)

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Rules and Stipulations

  • 616 Thing and Chulk
  • Composite Chulk
  • In Character, but Serious and Going All Out
  • Random Encounter
  • Standard Gear
  • Fight to K.O. or Death

Setting | Manhattan

Fighters Start 20 Feet Apart
Fighters Start 20 Feet Apart

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maestromage

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#2  Edited By maestromage

I assume I can't vote but TAEP anyways

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#3 cocacolaman  Moderator

T4V

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Kevd4wg

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The Totally Awesome Hulk

No Caption Provided

An Introduction to Amadeus Cho

Not many people like this new hulk (I personally love him), but that does not mean he cannot be respected.

Cho stole Banner's powers and became stronger than him. He also uses math.

Previous Fights

This section will cover Ben's previous fights with Chulk, of which there is 1 and comes from Moongirl and Devil Dinosaur #14

The two end up stalemating and knocking each other out, but we have to consider something here, Chulk used neither his supermath and was not tapped into Dark Chulk which makes him far more impressive. However, Thing was a little weakened from not being with the rest of the Fantastic Four, but he still beat up Thanos at this point so not too weak.

Now many will point to Thing's recent stomping of Immortal Hulk and Immortal Hulk Spider-man as evidence of Thing's ability to beat Chulk, but there's actually reason to think that Chulk is even stronger than Devil Hulk, which I can bring up in my next post if necessary.

Dem Feats Tho

For this section, I want to compare Cho Hulk's showings to a couple of different characters and then Thing's showings against the same characters or just their general showings, which paint a clear picture of Cho Hulk's physical superiority. The first character I'll focus on is the comparison with Thor. In Cho Hulk's first fight against Thor, he takes several hits from him and seems to damage him, while Thor is called the World Breaker on Sakaar(The same title World Breaker Hulk had) in the same panel.

Totally Awesome Hulk #712

Furthermore, when tapping into Dark Chulk, he was capable of completely dominating Thor and easily KOing him.

Totally Awesome Hulk #716

Contrastly, Thing has never had this good of a match up against Thor, on numerous occasions getting destroyed, but with the most fun version being from Fear Itself #5, where Thor one-shots an amped Thing by just pulling his hammer back through him.

No Caption Provided

An even better example of the complete difference between Thing and Cho Hulk is looking at Hercules. Hercules is Thor's complete physical equally normally as can be seen in instances such as Thor #400 or Thor Blood Oath #3-4, but something important to note about Hercules is that he lost half his power in the early 90s and did not get repowered until after Secret Wars so from the early 90s-2015, Hercules was operating at half power. During that point in time Hercules performed an action all even mediocre high tiers have, stomping Thing. Even better, this comic, Hercules vs Hulk: When titans collide, was written by the same author who had Cho Hulk stomp Thor.

No Caption Provided

The last element worth analyzing here is that Cho Hulk fought Unworthy Thor, a Thor who is heavily affected by Aaron's run and Aaron's Thor is easily one of the strongest we've ever gotten. Basically all of the context demonstrates Cho Hulk can stomp one of the strongest interpretations of Thor, while Thing simply doesn't hold a candle while amped or while Thor is weakened.

I'd also like to talk about Chulk's relationship to Weapon H, who he gets the upper hand on against the first Weapon H and then does take a hit from the second Weapon H.

Totally Awesome Hulk #22

Now, these are just some showings I've collected to give you an idea how strong Weapon H is.

here we go:

Weapon H hit cho so hard that he not only completely floored him and likely broke his nose, but destroyed the entire surrounding town as a side effect

even worse, a monster that was beating up cho and could only be temporarily put down when cho unleashed his inner dark hulk,

was literally instantly beheaded by Weapon H.

Mind you, this thing was a hulk with an adamantium skeleton.

weapon H has also easily shredded dozens of secondary adamantium cyborgs

I mean, he's powerful enough to beat down an amped up ur-wendigo, someone who went toe to toe with pre-core breach hulk when un amped

and tanked attacks from it when it was massively amped, even one that caused an avalanche

Weapon H fought through this and still beat up an amped man thing, someone that also went toe to toe with classic hulk when un amped, tanking a man-thing fire nuke from him and then thunderclapping down a large section of a forest

Not to mention his skill.

And he's fast too

fast enough to fight at blur speeds, with or without being hulked out

speedblitz the weapon X team

more than once, too.

Then there's this speed feat:

Not to mention his OP healing factor:

scan 1: self explanatory, his fingers were fine by the next page. scan 2: He healed from those bites by the next page and healed this thigh quickly as well . scan 3-4: he healed getting stabbed from behind almost instantaneously . scan 5-9: The big HF feat. He heals from being impaled by three massive spikes through his chest, and having a drill stuck into his eye heading towards his brain, and he heals it within seconds. He also says that he could heal and keep his memories after a lobotomy, which isn't hyperbole since he actually had a lobotomy previously and healed, even healed back his memories, this was confirmed by the author, too.

EDIT: and his claws are also capable of ripping through secondary adamantium like tissue paper, too:

Thing would quite simply stand no chance against Weapon H, especially given his encounter against Wolverine alone.

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At this point you may be thinking that I've shown enough physicals feats to get a good idea of Cho Hulk's abilities, and you would be 100% correct there is absolutely no reason for me to post any more showings, but as I am repping a Hulk it is actually necessary to post all of their legitimate showings and other ones too! Taking another Hulk debating classic, I will also be copying the arguments of Hulk debaters who have come before me to do so, so this all comes from noted Hulk debater Ghost Ravage IV

======================================================================================

To start off, here's Cho carving a gargantuan note on a mountain range, setting off a seismic alert.

The Totally Awesome Hulk #9

Casually knocks OML from Manhattan to Brooklyn through buildings in 3 hits.

Old Man Logan #2

I'll cite him oneshotting fin fang foom twice, someone iron man has been completely unable to put down on several occasions; the second instance coming after he easily broke out of his mouth and shattered several teeth, around the same time period Iron man and Captain marvel had to combine their full strength to open his mouth and were getting shrugged off by Foom.

To be fair Foom was occupied with his mouth full in the first scan

The Totally Awesome Hulk #3 - Cho Time: Part Three

In the same issue he shrugged off a punch from Foom as well, Foom from his introduction being someone that casually shattered mountain and in general being an impressive low high tier.

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Or demonstrating blatant superiority to Sasquatch and taking him and snowbird out(in this fight alone Carol was worried he'd take out Alpha Flight). Later on he tanked hits from Sasquatch and Capt. Marvel, despite being weakened by many, many, gamma blockers, whereas one the previous issue was almost capable of turning him back to Amadeus. The latter is dark chulk, but considering that at this point in his publication he's merged with Dark Hulk as a personality and he consistently allows himself to tap into his power when he's outmatched and can see no standard route to victory, It's hardly irrelevant here.

Sasquatch is someone the Thing has acknowledged is stronger than him

1-2.Champions #21 - Northern Lights Conclusion

3.Incredible Hulk #716 - World War Hulk II Part III

Then he does this to the satellite firing the gamma blockers, which was in orbit.

Incredible Hulk #716 - World War Hulk II Part III

Hell, while he was being permanently drained of his hulk power he was able to tank this barrage from Odinson, Sasquatch, and Captain Marvel:

Incredible Hulk #717
Incredible Hulk #717

I have plenty more instances than these, but to cut a long story short i doubt Jane can supply the raw power to put him down, while I believe the reverse isn't true.. Anyways, here's some strength feats.

======================================================================================

I think it's worth citing from a damage output standpoint his capability to shatter secondary adamantium, a metal that has required Thor no small level of effort to break in the past. The last scan is him shattering 20 cyborgs which each, in addition to having a secondary adamantium frame had warpath's [who under pak could shatter bunkers, rip through buildings, fight gamma creatures, and take on the winter guard] powers.

1.The Totally Awesome Hulk #19 - Weapons of Mutant Destruction Prelude

2, 4. Weapon X #4 - Weapons of Mutant Destruction Prelude

3.Weapon X #6 - Weapons of Mutant Destruction Part 5

======================================================================================

And if you doubt these are adamantium, well, first, there's the eleven recap pages outright calling them adamantium cyborgs

they've been identified of having adamantium claws, coming from lady deathstrike, these claws could cut through chulk.

and if not for the obvious visual indications that their bodies are made up of the same material as their claws...

There's multiple people (including their creators), saying that they have adamantium skeletons

Then there's the fact that these things could no-sell orbital re-entry (Totally Awesome Hulk #19), conventional weaponry (Weapon X #3), and were only hurt by adamantium or vibranium weaponry, or weapons damaging their internal components via finding holes in their shells, like domino did (although these weapons were specifically provided by the olympus group and could break through vibranium reinforced glass).

======================================================================================

Anyways, his ability to destroy such metals is wonderfully consistent too, considering what he did to Tchalla's vibranium Hulkbuster when ticked off...

It's only other feat is no-selling a blast from the GOAT captain marvel under Aaron

The Totally Awesome Hulk #10

Here's Amadeus going toe to toe with, then overpowering as Dark Chulk, the immediate prototype to Clayton, H-Alpha [Whereas Clay is H-Beta] with the same gamma power and adamantium skeleton, although not as powerful due to clay's militarized and more refined, deadly nature.

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[ H-Alpha vs Chulk]

- The Totally Awesome Hulk #22 - Weapons of Mutant Destruction Conclusion

======================================================================================

To round up from a physicality standpoint, I'll bring up two more instances where he fought with a peer at full power, so you can get an idea of how physically imposing his Hulk is, and why I think he holds a decisive advantage over Jane in a head to head match up.

For example, his fight with Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider in Ghost Rider #3 - Four On the Floor Part Three where he was able to send Robbie Flying while holding back, no-sold his kick and was relatively unphased by his attacks with the hellcharger.

Worth noting Reyes went toe to toe with Starbrand, and he's consistently been pushed as a high tier. Plus this is Reyes' own series.

[Chulk vs Robbie Reyes GR]

At the end of the fight, Cho Loki-smashed him so hard Reyes started channeling significant hell power, reminiscent of the time he got mind-controlled and channeled enough power to take on both Captain Marvel and Thor and be on the winning end.

I'll close off with another example to concretely establish exactly what kind of threat a non-holding back Amadeus is.

Generations: Banner Hulk & Totally Awesome Hulk #1 shows Amadeus letting loose, travelling back in time, and going toe to toe with Savage Hulk Pre-core breach, knocking each other between and levelling cliffsides. They were so evenly matched that they both literally gave up and reverted back to human.

No Caption Provided

[Bannerhulk vs Cho Hulk]

Supermath

Supermath is of course the most GOAT ability of all time and just allows Cho to do literally anything. Some examples here

  1. Amadeus uses Supermath to dodge multiple bullets without getting hit at all by getting into the perfect position(Incredible Hercules #121)
  2. Amadeus throws a tiny piece of Adamantium in the perfect spot to take out a missile before it can hit him(Incredible Hulk vol 2 #109)
  3. Amadeus uses just a pebble and his surroundings to take out a superhuman robot(Incredible Hulk vol 2 #110)
  4. Amadeus can use math to figure out where to shoot a bullet, through a ship/angle change to hit a target perfectly(Incredible Hercules #124)

The most absurd though is that as a normal dude he used Supermath to beat Mister X, a martial artist who has stomped Wolverine in fights.

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Supermath has even more impressive application as it allows him to run an Infinite Panoply of situations at any point in time.

Incredible Hercules #135

Thing may have a few advanced degrees, but he's one of the dumber members of the Fantastic Four, much less capable of calculating an infinite number of complete situations to come out on top, which honestly borders on reality warping.

It gets even better though as Cho has shown the capability to run these kinds of calculations within a nanosecond

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Thus Cho Hulk can achieve the Infinite Nanosecond Panoply analysis of any situation. Meanwhile, Thing can't even achieve catching up to some kids.

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Immortal

Cho Hulk is immortal, and not in the puny way someone like Thor is, rather he literally cannot die/is outside the realm of death and instead as a gamma creature comes back to life from the Green Door. An explanation I've made of this before

When someone dies, someone with a history like Cho, they go to hell. Well, a normal person would go to hell. When Amadeus Cho dies, he's sent below Hell, below torment. To the place of the One Below All

No Caption Provided

When Banner goes to the place he is faced with horror incarnate. But there is something else as well. As a being of the One Below All, Banner does not stay dead, he cannot stay dead. When killed Banner is sent back through the Green door, only stronger than before.

No Caption Provided

When the door appears, Cho walks through and comes back alive with no one noticing.

This is actually applicable to combat, as we've seen Hulk come back to life mid fight after dying.

Immortal Hulk #19/20

As a Gamma mutate, this would also apply to Cho Hulk.

Conclusion

Cho is just better in every way, smarter, heals, immortal, stronger, more durable, there's just no way Thing has the advantage except willpower amp, but it's just not enough to overcome Cho Hulk's prediction of every future timeline. Basically this happens

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Kevd4wg

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Kev channeling his inner BA to wank Chulk, goat.

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UltraPhoenix

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takenstew22

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#11  Edited By takenstew22  Moderator

Memes.

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Battle123axe

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I'm not gonna lie this is pretty good b8

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#13  Edited By Battle123axe

It's very impressive how between the two of them, Kev and BS might be able to write half a paragraph of original material.

The rest is copy pasted arguments better debaters made several years ago, mashed together with a caricature of their syntax and regurgitated in a low effort attempt to 'meme on' and 'bait' users that don't waste their lives anymore trying to trigger people on a comic book debating site.

So, in essence their whole CV career!

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#14  Edited By rajjarsalt
@battle123axe said:

It's very impressive how between the two of them, Kev and BS might be able to write half a paragraph of original material.

The rest is copy pasted arguments better debaters made several years ago, mashed together with a caricature of their syntax and regurgitated in a low effort attempt to 'meme on' and 'bait' users that don't waste their lives anymore trying to trigger people on a comic book debating site.

So, in essence their whole CV career!

big butchery imo

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#15 takenstew22  Moderator

Lol.

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#16  Edited By blackspidey2099

Benjamin Grimm: The Thing

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Bio: Aunt Petunia's Favorite Nephew

Benjamin "Ben" Grimm came from a tough household, living in the Yancy Street neighborhood in New York. As a child, he had a troubled life, joining and eventually leading the infamous Yancy Street Gang. However, he soon turned himself around, earning a football scholarship to go to college.

This is where the real story begins. Grimm would soon befriend his freshman roommate, the super-genius Reed Richards - the two of them dreaming to explore the stars someday. Well, that day happened a lot sooner than anyone expected. While Ben become an accomplished astronaut and US Air Force pilot, Reed worked on developing an actual starship - and when it was complete, he chose his best friend to pilot it.

Unfortunately, disaster struck! Ben, Reed, and their fellow passengers/friends Susan and Johnny Storm were bombarded with cosmic rays, which mutated each of them in different ways. While the other 3 received fantastic powers, Ben physically turned into a rocky monster. Despite the setback, Ben never lets anything keep him down for too long, instead opting to use his powers for good as a member of the Fantastic Four!

Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Fantastic Four

Rocky Exterior: Power Level

Before delving into the feats, I think it's a good idea to look at something even more important - some good ol', ever-lovin' intent. This is especially useful with an in-universe battle like this one, given that it allows us to dissect their respective places in the overall Marvel power hierarchy. Spoilers alert: it should come as no surprise to you that Thing is right up there at the top!

But of course, my claims are of no use without evidence to back them up. Thankfully, there's a ton of that through the decades of published comics that Ben has appeared in.

Thing has always been the strongest male and best fighter on planet Earth - from his early days as the Thing all the way until right now. 2 of the many villains and characters to acknowledge this fact include Thundra and Rapture.

Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #133/151

Thundra was sent back to the past by the future female civilization known as the Femizons, in order to defeat the world's strongest male - who they determined was The Thing. And while you can argue this happened ages ago, this intent is consistent throughout those ages. Most recently, it was backed up just a couple months ago through a vision of a possible future.

Fantastic Four Vol. 6 #28
Fantastic Four Vol. 6 #28

Before succumbing to his injuries in a battle against the powerful being known as Rapture, Ben gave her a fight so tough that she had no choice but to admit, out of grudging respect, that Ben was truly the best fighter Earth had to offer.

Heck, one of Ben's most iconic moments period is based on him being the strongest fighter in the known universe, based on his performance against The Champion of the Universe. For some quick background, The Champion is an Elder of the Universe - and not just that, but also the greatest fighter in any of the known universes. He has people scour all the known galaxies for the best and strongest fighters to face him in the ring - but none have ever lasted past the second round.

Marvel Two-in-One Vol. 1 Annual #7

Ben is a clear exception. Not only does he last past the third round (a full 50% better than anyone else in the universe), but he also pummels The Champion bad enough that he's forced to admit that Thing is the first foe he has faced in countless eons and through the entire universe that is worthy of his full fury.

Marvel Two-in-One Vol. 1 Annual #7

And this is consistently backed up by both Ben's friends and his foes. Within a few moments of encountering Ben in a fight, Surfer immediately comments that he's up against one of the strongest beings he's faced (before even knowing it's Ben). Later on, he even admits that Ben is the strongest man he has ever known.

Silver Surfer Vol. 8 #2/3

Even people who hate Ben like no other have to admit that none can equal the Thing in terms of sheer brute strength. And who hates Ben more than Dr. Doom himself?

Marvel Super-Heroes Vol. 1 #20
Marvel Super-Heroes Vol. 1 #20

If the word of a single person isn't enough, how about the fact that Ben is the strongest person the Skrull Empire could find in the entire galaxy?

Fantastic Four #91
Fantastic Four #91

Yeah, that's right. An entire technologically advanced empire came to the conclusion that when it comes to strength, ain't nobody coming out on top over Ben. I'd like to see anyone say that about Chulk. Heck, I doubt you can find anything a tenth as impressive as that.

Clobbering Time: Combat Showings

Of course, a character like The Thing has thousands of fights across literal decades. However, in this section I will be focusing on more modern showings for two reasons:

  • If the goal of a CAV is to debate who would win if a fight between these 2 characters were to actually play out in the comics, the characters would be written according to the modern interpretations of both characters.
  • Amadeus Cho, as a relatively new character, doesn't really have any "classic" feats to speak of, so focusing more on modern feats helps establish a better common ground for comparisons.

With that said, let's move on to the showings themselves. Since this is a variant of the classic Thing vs Hulk match-up, that's the angle I'll be taking here. The first fight I'd like to bring up is one of the most iconic and important Thing vs Hulk fights in recent memory. Everyone on CV already knows what I'm talking about, but I'll post the scans for good measure.

Deadpool Vol. 3 #27

As you can see, Hulk was ruining Deadpool's wedding reception (probably throwing a tantrum about not being the strongest one there is while Thing is around) and Thing had to step in to get the situation back under control. While Deadpool tells Cap and Logan about his past marriages, Thing wipes the floor with Hulk and then leaves, his work done. When Deadpool is done with his spiel, we can even see Hulk lying out cold on the ground. That's what you get when you mess with The Thing!

I'd also like to bring up a more recent (and more obscure) battle between the two characters. Thing powers through a 86 minute slugfest against the Immortal Hulk, before eventually punching his lights out just as he is reverting back into his human form.

Fantastic Four Vol. 6 #12/13

The important aspects to take note of here are that Hulk was very much bloodlusted, or as close to it as he could reasonably be. He had every intention of murdering Ben, as he stated himself. On the other hand, for much of the fight, Ben was preoccupied with saving Alicia as well as the other residents of the island - and Hulk brutally exploits Ben's care for civilians by attacking him with his back turned, or when he's trying to defuse the situation. Furthermore, Ben was literally 86 minutes away from reverting back into his human form for a week when this battle started. So Ben had to manage all these factors while also taking on an angry, dark, and ruthless incarnation of the Hulk.

Despite all these factors, when Ben stops holding back and lets loose with his best punch, he manages to take Hulk down hard.

What makes this even more impressive is the fact that Ben was literally milliseconds away from reverting back to his human form when he finally let loose - so it's very possible that he wouldn't have been at quite his full strength at that moment since his body would have been preparing for the biological changes required to revert back to human. It's been shown before that this transformation is not instant on multiple occasions - whether an older version of the formula (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #17) or the current version (Fantastic Four #587) - so with just milliseconds left on the clock, Ben's body would have started that process already. This means he was actually likely weakened when he finally went all out and took the Hulk down once and for all.

On Hulk's side, the context is that Hulk was technically being manipulated by the Puppet Master.

Fantastic Four Vol. 6 #13
Fantastic Four Vol. 6 #13

However, this doesn't mean that Hulk wasn't at his best - far from it. In fact, it's made repeatedly clear that not only was Hulk a more than willing participant, but also that he was at full power and even arguably amped by channeling the Puppet Master's rage in addition to his own.

Fantastic Four Vol. 6 #13

So the story here is that Ben, while inarguably not at his best, took down an arguably amped Devil Hulk who was determined to murder him.

But that's not all - I have a couple even more impressive showings I'd like to bring up.

First, we can discuss Ben's showing against current She-Hulk - the same one who can store and release more gamma energy than even Bruce can (Avengers Vol. 8 #8). Before this fight, she had been killed and possessed by the Cotati, potentially making her even more powerful. And yet, she's completely unable to take Ben down.

Empyre #4-5

She-Hulk takes Ben by surprise with a gamma blast, and yet Ben gets back up and keeps fighting. No matter what she does, she can't take Ben down. The fight doesn't end at all, until Jen eventually comes back to life and is as such able to take her body back. If a doubly amped She-Hulk can't take Ben down, what is Cho going to do?

And that's not even the best encounter that Ben has against an amped Hulk. That would likely be Ben's battle against the Immortal Spider-Hulk - a Hulk that was created when Sorcerer Supreme Loki magically drew the power of the Hulk out of Bruce Banner and into Peter Parker (Immortal Hulk: Great Power #1).

Immortal Hulk: Great Power #1

I know some people try to downplay this feat by saying that Spider-Hulk isn't as powerful as regular Hulk, but it's pretty clearly implied in both the comic itself as well as the solicitation that Spider-Hulk should be an even larger threat.

Immortal Hulk: Great Power #1

I think these showings provide more than enough evidence that Ben is above a number of different varieties of Hulks, all of whom should be above Cho. However, I'd be remiss if I didn't acknowledge and include the fight that's actually gone down between these 2 characters. So let's go through that real quick.

Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur #14

As you can see, it clearly ends in a stalemate. However, there's important context here that explains why Thing didn't win this fight as he should have. Essentially, he was losing strength due to being away from the rest of the Fantastic Four (ie. Reed and Sue) as shown in Marvel Two-in-One Vol. 2 #3. So the fight I just showed you was actually between Cho Hulk and a depowered (say, at around half power) Thing. It seems pretty clear to me that a full power Thing would take the win pretty comfortably, in that case.

I would leave it there, but for now, I am going to list some feats noted by the esteemed Thing debater, @midtierthor. Just some random stuff that Chulk would not be able to replicate.

Fantastic Four #158-159. Ben crushes a thunderhorn device that was built to channel, direct and amplify (and, logically, withstand) Black Bolt's voice.
Marvel Team-Up Annual #5. Breaks Quasar's energy restraints.
Secret Invasion Fantastic Four #3. Ben busts dozens of walls of Negative Zone Prison. In Fantastic Four Foes #5 those walls were described as "adamantium walls with vibranium core".
Fantastic Four #311. Almost overloads a vibranium robot in several hits (but gets stopped by T'Challa's).
Marvel C0mics Presents #66-68. Tanks explosions of Exiles' energy cage. The first explosion overloaded a slab of vibranium, and the explosions only became more powerful after that.
Fantastic Four #172. While wearing a suit that was restoring 90% of his strength (he was depowered at the time) manages to tank several hits from Destroyer. That was also before Ben recieved any of his permanent amps.
Fantastic Four Unlimited #9. Overpowers Anak, whose strength Thor compared to Hercules' (Thor #475).
Fantastic Four #142-143. Tanks several hits (including a sucker punch) from Darkoth and, when he stops holding back, knocks him out (but passes out due to poison). Same Darkoth traded blows with Thor for an hour and was said to be his equal (Thor #325).
Fantastic Four #561. Casually one-shots Lightwave and takes him out of the fight, with Lightwave only managing to get up 6 pages later. This is the same Lightwave who tanked getting hit by a moon-busting attack from Ego (Fantastic Force #3).
Fantastic Four Annual #32. While shrunk inside Johhny's body, hits Psycho-Woman so hard that Johhny says he won't survive another hit like that. Ben was so small that when Sue (who was shrunken with Ben) made this tiny area of Johhny's skin invisible, Reed commented that on their scale it would be the same as making the Moon invisible.
Marvel Comics Presents #105. Shruggs off every attack from Vigil of Vontsalvant and had him at his mercy. Same Vigil who bested Annihilus 3 times in the past.
Silver Surfer #96. Ben is too strong for Surfer and Torch to restrain.

The Underrated Overall Speed of Thing:

No Thing post would be complete without mentioning what is arguably his best attribute - speed. Thing is commonly known to be one of the fastest 616 Marvel high tiers you can find, with speed impressive enough that it can be compared to much faster universes, such as the DCEU.

In terms of in-universe comparisons, we've seen him clearly outspeed plenty of other mid/high tiers who try to bullrush him. What happens to them? They get stopped dead in their tracks:

Punisher #226, Thing Vol. 1 #3, Captain Marvel Vol. 1 #26, The Sub-Mariner Vol. 1 #8, Fantastic Four #400, Uncanny X-Men Vol. 2 #12

For reference, Black Bolt, Namor and Cap Marvel are fast enough to fly to orbit in seconds, yet their bullrushes still ended with them being punched in the face:

The Sub-Mariner Vol. 1 #30, Marvel Two-in-One Vol. 1 Annual #4

More than that, Ben was able to tag Star-Dancer repeatedly. Impressive because Star-Dancer has reaction speed to effortlessly dodge meteoroids (meteoroids are asteroids with size range from grain to 1 meter object, which is the case with objects Star-Dancer dodged) from the close range (meteoroids have speeds ranging from 11 km/s to 72 km/s):

Marvel Two-in-One Vol. 1 #79

Not only that, Ben was shown capable of reacting to and deflecting meteoroids on his own on at least two occasions):

Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #24; Fantastic Four #210

Arguably his most impressive quantifiable feat, however, comes from this encounter with Quicksilver:

Fantastic Four #304

As stated by the narration, Quicksilver was going at 170. One may ask what units of measurement were being used, but that would be a dumb question since it was clearly Mach 170, as stated by TOAA himself. Sources don't get any more reliable than that!

That should be more than enough to prove that Thing blitzes, but to put the final nail in your coffin, let me bring up what is arguably Thing's best speed feat.

Fantastic Four Vol. 3 #1
Fantastic Four Vol. 3 #1

Yeah, you read that right. Ben manages to chase, and briefly keep up with, 3 MFTL beings appearing in the form of children. We know these beings are MFTL based on the last couple of panels, since they disappear from Ben's sight. Ben can see light, so the fact that they were moving too quick for him to see proves that they were moving even quicker than light itself! This is especially consistent when we consider the feats I've showed for Ben above - the fact that these beings in the form of kids were able to move FTE to Ben means they scale above Quicksilver, Mar-Vell, etc. who are light speed.

With that said, in this battle Ben borrows an ability known as the Statue-Force from an unnamed rival of his, and blitzes the arf out of Chulk. GG.

What A Revoltin' Development: Power Progression

If things weren't bad enough for Chulk already, Ben actually keeps getting stronger as time goes by.

Fantastic Four #388
Fantastic Four #388

This isn't just a one-time plot point either, it's been referenced numerous times throughout the eras.

Thing Vol. 1 #21; Fantastic Four #553

And this steady power growth provides Ben with a very noticeable amp as time goes by. The best example of this would be 1979 Ben's fight against an earlier version of himself (from 1961), who he essentially casually one-shots.

Marvel Two-in-One #50

In 18 real world years, he grew so much stronger that he could one-shot his earlier self. Now, I'm not saying current Ben would one-shot himself from any of the feats in the past section, but he's certainly a helluva lot stronger since then. And that makes this battle even harder for Cho, since he's already been stalemated by a Thing who was only at 80% of a lower total power level. So Current Thing would be even more than 20% more powerful than the Thing who stalemated Cho.

Concluding Thoughts:

See! The snake has been caught, slivering his way into the grass like a drop of fresh water from the clouds above! slithering its way down a window frame. I was mocked when I presented the idea of BA being 'unethical and having the manners of a child!' I was mocked, me? The very presence of my ideals being mocked is absurd compared to BA who very foolishly deleted his comment like Zeus the skyfather deleting those who stood there place when the powerful almighty god commanded them to flee and take shelter for a storm would come to devastate and destroy! Thy have mocked me for my solid 'Thing wank' yet thy have only truly wanked what is true, what is right and what is wrong! Thy idea of Thing being a character who's very presence displeases and is instead rendered as being a mere jest and something which make all peasants burst into loud laughter. Thy Thing is not a joke, not a jest, not a quip, not anything which would displease me. When thy Ben Grimm makes his presence known unworthy and ungrateful followers like BA or even thy accursed Destroyer of very small planets would try to show Ben in an ungrateful light, thy Thing is a destroyer and creator, thy question should not be do thy Thing 'sux' it should be how may I please thy conquer, thy god, thy Thing! Be gone wretched crawlers return to the land in which the sun does not shine, the land without hope, thy land in which the devil himself, the lord of hell would not enter. Only then would thy Thing redeem you redemption for thy pitiful views and hate crimes! for thy ungratefulness towards the creator of heaven and earth!

The Tora (Noob 20:01)

TL;DR: Thing clobbers. Chulk gets clobbered.

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blackspidey2099

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cocacolaman

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#18 cocacolaman  Moderator

This wasted a few summer days for me. Don't really think it was worth it to miss out on the great weather and time that could have been spent with family or friends, but oh well.

Noone quote etc.

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ProfessorRespect

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This wasted a few summer days for me. Don't really think it was worth it to miss out on the great weather and time that could have been spent with family or friends, but oh well.

Noone quote etc.

Explaining the joke, etc

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anthp2000

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#20  Edited By anthp2000  Moderator

Poor Battle123axe.

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takenstew22

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#22 takenstew22  Moderator

Lmao this is so GOAT.

TAEP.

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Alphamon

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Underfire47

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The best way to do CAV's is to copy paste multiple other peoples CAV's into your own CAV, therefore creating the ultimate CAV that ever CAVed.

BS and Kev are the first 2 individuals on CV to think outside the box.

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Edgelord91

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TAEP

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lol this is pretty great.