CIS (star wars) vs Imperial Guard

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Army2442

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Poll CIS (star wars) vs Imperial Guard (10 votes)

CIS 40%
Imperial guard 60%

CIS:

General: General grivus

700,000 B1 droids

300,000 B2 droids

10,500 drokias

3,000 AAT tanks

10 Spider droids

50 CIS fighters

vs

Imperial guard:

General: Cain

100,000 Guardsmen (Valhallaian regiment)

5,000 karskins (can be remote deployed)

3,000 Storm Troopers (can be remote deployed, they are inquisitor class)

500 sentinels (mars variants)

200 razorbacks

25 lem man Russ tanks

15 Basilisks

10 Cataphract Class Robots

10 Thunderbolt fighters

Rules:

Morals off

No prep

Standard gear

Battlefield:

The imperial guard start out on top of a 1 mile tall mountain. The droids start at the bottom.

Victory conditions:

Forced retreat or surrender.

Versions:

Composite

 • 
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JwwProd

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#1  Edited By JwwProd

I love these WH40K vs threads your making! especially considering that your using my favourite WH40k faction! :D

Anyways going with the Imperial Guard here.

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Penderor

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Grievous slaughters Cain :P

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deactived-1352151

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Spelled Grievous, But anyways CIS.

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Army2442

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Also, add a single space Marine to the imperial guard side lol.

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Wut

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#5  Edited By Wut

*Looks* Oh, commissar Cain, cool...

*Continues reading* Valhallans... Valhallans... you gave Cain Valhallans..

Finally.... Cain is where he belongs.
Finally.... Cain is where he belongs.

Generals: Grevious is a proven commander. Cain is not a true commander. While Cain is an amazing leader able to inspire his troops to do... suicidal things and be his faithful meatshields, and he has shown, numerous times, to have a shrewd tactical mind, he is not a military commander. His job is to ensure the commanders do their jobs. The only times I can remember that he lead a 'large' force was during the two invasions of Perlia.

So hm, I am tempted to call it a tie, but I give Grevious the edge since Cain is often on the front lines and so more likely to get shot.

(I would love to see Cain/Jurgen and Grevious fight it out. Would be epic. Any other human would be instantly diced, but Cain has plot shields of Dr. Who level and Jurgen has the +5 Melta of Doom. I am assuming Jurgen is with him because... not having Jurgen with Cain is like having Master Chief without Cortana. Just... doesn't feel right.)

Edge - CIS 6/10

Infantry: Weaponry wise, it is a wash. I have always considered standard blasters to be on the same level as lasguns. I consider lasguns slightly better against flesh, and I consider blasters lightly better at penetration. Funny enough, if they traded guns they would have the better tools for their needed job. I guess it would depend on what the B2s had, I am assuming normal blaster arms and not rocket launchers.

Durability, the CIS takes that thanks to the B2s, but the Imperial Guard win in training and intelligence. Imperial Guard tactics vary based on their commander, and Cain isn't the, 'Once more into the breach my friends! Climb over the bodies of your brothers and sisters or I will see to it that you join them!' kind of leader, in fact, he despises such tactics, so the Imperial Guard do take a large edge for being human and so vastly smarter.

Hmm, I give the CIS the edge because that is a large number of B2s who have good durability.

Edge - CIS 6/10 (Because Guardsmen outdo B1s by a large margin).

Elite Infantry: What do you mean remotely deployed? Storm Troopers and Karskin (basically the same thing. Honestly, the Karskins aren't needed, just say 15k Storm Troopers. Plus I don't like seeing them attached to any non-cadian force. Bugs me.) can't be deployed via drop pod (Normal humans can't survive it.). That is a Space Marine thing. The only way they can be 'remotely deployed' is by a grav-chute (pretty much jet packs) from, usually, a Valkyrie. Is that what you meant? They can be airdropped?

Anyways, in a straight up fight, Droideka all the way. Shields. Shields. Shields. That said, the Storm Troopers can be airdropped? In, so that does allow them to reinforce their positions and since they are on top of a mountain they will be defending which is going to be invaluable and there are more droideka. I assume standard carapace armor and hellguns.

I am going to with my gut and give the Droideka the edge.

Edge - CIS 6.5/10 (Because of Airdrop? potential)

Walkers: I assume by spider droid you mean the smaller dwarf spider droid? But then... only giving them ten seems at odds with the 3k AATs you gave them... unless you meant the much larger OG-9 Spider Droid... hmmm, need clarification. As if you mean dwarf spiders then they go here, if you mean OG-9 then they go into the artillery category.

Don't know much, or anything, about the Cataphract really. I would have to use a dreaded wiki to take its weaponry from, but its speed and armor would be... shrug and pass on.

Tanks: Standard leman russ battle tanks? Or are we getting special with it?

Troop Carriers: You did it again. :P You gave them Razorbacks. That is a Space Marine thing. Imperial Guard use Chimeras. Chimera come with other weaponry options which make them a fairly good all around vehicle despite being a transport. They can have a autocannon and still have room for troops unlike the Razorback which sacrifices troop space for (admittedly) superior weaponry options.Granted five space marines would be like... 10-15 Imperial guard. 10 would be the recommended, but in a pinch, they could probably stuff a lot of men in there.

Artillery: Basilisks are mean. Need clarification on the Spider Droid.

Airpower: Thunderbolts are faster, better armed, better weaponry, better pilots, but they are outnumbered 5 to 1. Hmmmmmmmmmmm, Thunderbolts will still probably win, but I don't know how many would be left.

Edge - Imperial Guard 5.5/10 (Not sure if there would be enough to make a difference. There is only 10 of them and they would lose some to the CIS fighters, so... who knows?)

Terrain: Heavily, Heavily, Heavily, Heavily, Heavily, Heavily (Do I need to add more?) favors the Imperial Guard.

Edge - Imperial Guard 10/10

Overall: Pending.

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Army2442

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The spider droids are OG-9s. The razorbacks are converted into chimeras. The karskins and storm troopers have jet packs and are air dropped (no other air support tho). Standard lemman Russ tanks also don't for get about the heavy support robots on the imperial guard side.

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Wolfrazer

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#7  Edited By Wolfrazer

@wut: Define better at flesh?

Also again...what CIS fighters? They have different ones.

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Wut

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#8  Edited By Wut

@wolfrazer: Lasguns have consistent showings of exploding flesh. There are examples of blasters doing it, but there are also a lot of showings of them not causing flesh to explode which makes it dubious.

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Wut

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#10  Edited By Wut

Mkay, then my elite infantry edge remains unchanged. I feel droideka are still going to be a larger factor. Since the CIS is being forced to fight up the mountain, the Droideka are going to be invaluable in terms of cover and fire support even more so then the rapid reinforcement option of the Storm Troopers.

Walker: Imperial Guard win by default as since it is the large Walkers Spider Droids, I put those as mobile Artillery platforms more so then a battle walker.

Sentinels are going to be of questionable use. Mars pattern means multilasers, don't get me wrong, if I was Cain, I would rather have them then not. They will have an easier time with the terrain, but since they IG will be defending (thanks to being able to pick the battlefield due to higher ground and long ranged artillery) the Sentinels are really just going to be fire support and used to keep flanks secured.

I... didn't even know what a Cataphract was, but they don't appear to be that much larger then a Space Marine given they use a boltgun, flamer, and lascannon (I assume the lascannon is on its shoulder... never really seen one..), hte flamer and boltgun are meh, but the lascannons are a big deal. Very good for anti-tank and long ranged making them very useful against the large number of AATs.

Edge Imperial Guard - 10/10

Artillery: This would be closer in open field as the Spider Droid provides front line fire support and long ranged fire support... but the Basilisk are on top of a mountain which increases their range and importance by a very, very large margin. Protecting their artillery batteries should be the IGs primary concern while destroying them is going to be the CIS's main objective.

So yea, the fact that these Basilisk are on a mountain so giving them range and a wider firing view compared to the Spider which has to shoot up the mountain... not a pretty picture. I don't even have to look at their weaponry to know that.

Edge Imperial Guard - 8.5-9/10 (Terrain is a huge factor in this one.)

Tanks: I am throwing Chimeras with the Leman Russ tanks because... why not? Standard Chimera weapon is multilaser which is good against light armor and infantry. Standard Leman Russ is a battle cannon, lascannon hullmounted weapon, and two heavy bolter sponsons.

AAT is outgunned in terms of weaponry and durability, but as a glider, it will have an easier time maneuvering the rocky terrain, that said, the Leman Russ Main Cannon is going to be very good at giving indirect fire which will allow them to hammer and hamper the CIS on their ascent.

That said, dear god, there are 3,000 of them. Normally I would give them the edge simply because there are so many they can effect a far larger amount of the battlefield, but this is a mountain... and they have to go up... and assault it... which means... choke points.

I don't know. I can see a good point being made for both sides. Leman Russ tanks will be very good at holding vital passes and check points thanks to their firepower and armor, but dear god, they will run out of ammo. While the amount of AATs means they can easily take the losses and push through the infantry... hmmmm.

I am going to give the AATs the edge due to their very high number.

Edge - CIS 7/10

Overall: Honestly, if this was open terrain, I would give it to the CIS, but... the terrain is just so against them that I don't see them winning, and if they do, they are going to have nothing left. The only way I can see them winning is to send waves of droids (meatshields) and AATs, and literally, make the IG run out of ammunition. The Terrain is really unfair. I would expect an assaulting side to be far more skilled or have far more numbers in such an up-mountain (forgive the pun) assault.

Given the amount of AATs, it is possible that the CIS can do this by... General Granting it, but their is a very good chance they will run out of droids. So while the CIS took most of the categories, I don't see them winning here simply due to the Terrain.

Victory - Imperial Guard 6/10

@penderor: If Cain can defeat a Daemon Prince, he can defeat Grevious. :P (>.> Totally not counting on Jurgen being their with his +5 Melta (Flamethrower like weapon that reduces tanks to piles of slag and vaporizes space marines) of Doom... <.<)

@wolfrazer: Yep, and blasters have superior showings against metal then lasbolts. I mean there is the occasional one where they punch clean through, but more often then not, it merely heats the metal up and causes it to wrap which is why I believe the generic blaster to be better at armor penetration.

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Penderor

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@wut: I agree with you. On the open battlefield, CIS should have just overpower them with the blaster fire as they have more units. But on every other battlefield they would loose.

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Army2442

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Bump.

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Wut

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#13  Edited By Wut

Oh, you added a single space marine for laughs... hmmm, he runs around killing stuff, punches a hole in an AAT and tears its hatch off... when the Imperial Guard win the battle thanks to their bravery, Cain and the Space Marine will steal all the credit.

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JwwProd

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@wut said:

*Looks* Oh, commissar Cain, cool...

*Continues reading* Valhallans... Valhallans... you gave Cain Valhallans..

Finally.... Cain is where he belongs.
Finally.... Cain is where he belongs.

Yea when I saw that these are Valhallans that are being used here and that Cain was leading them and that no Space Marine units where being used here I was like "YES! PERFECTION!".

But then Army2442 added one Space Marine and then I was like "Oh come one!" now I'm not saying that I don't like Space marines but these Imperial Guard threads that Army2442 is making should just be fully Imperial Guard and not adding units from other Imperium groups, because I feel that the Space Marines would overshadow the Imperial Guard like in this ONE THREAD!

You know now that I think of it, this thread actually makes me wants to make an battle thread with the Valhallan Ice Warriors led by Cain or maybe the Catachan Jungle Fighters.

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Wut

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@jwwprod: I dislike arguing in threads with Cain and his Valhallans because I am biased. I try not to be, but I really enjoy Cain and the 597th Valhallan regiment.

:P Yea, that is what I was talking about. Said Space Marine is going to steal the credit and, somehow, be the sole reason these Imperial Guard guys were able to hold on because they are Space Marines!

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Army2442

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I was just trolling about the space marine. He isn't really in the fight.

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Vortex1456789

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@penderor said:

Grievous slaughters Cain :P

No he doesn't, Well I don't know.

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Penderor

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@vortex14 said:

@penderor said:

Grievous slaughters Cain :P

No he doesn't, Well I don't know.

How fast is Cain?