Chthon Vs. Black Winter

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Andromeda1001

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Chthon Vs. Black Winter:

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The Rules:

  1. Morals Off/Bloodlust.
  2. Random Encounter.
  3. Standard Power-Levels.
  4. Win by any means.

LOCATION:

The Dark Dimension
The Dark Dimension
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deactivated-66912bb02778f

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winter

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WastelandMan

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Shouldn’t Black Winter be stronger given his status?

Besides that, Thor needed the help from Galactus and both needed to be amped to try to take him on. Meanwhile, Immortal Thor held his own and temporarily BFR’d Toranos solo, and I assume Toranos as another Elder God is at least comparable.

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BigBaby

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Chthon and I would say casually.

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Andromeda1001

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@wastelandman said:

Shouldn’t Black Winter be stronger given his status?

Besides that, Thor needed the help from Galactus and both needed to be amped to try to take him on. Meanwhile, Immortal Thor held his own and temporarily BFR’d Toranos solo, and I assume Toranos as another Elder God is at least comparable.

Well, I once saw @rajjarsalt saying that couldn't see BW non-selling All-Father's Thor's blast like Toranos did. I assume Chthon should be at a similar level as the Utgard gods.

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BigBaby

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#6  Edited By BigBaby

@wastelandman: Black Winter is Galactus but simply on a universal level. Unless he got some new feats, I don't think his status is that high compared to Chthon.

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Soratoumiga

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@bigbaby said:

Chthon and I would say casually.

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Andromeda1001

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@bigbaby said:

@wastelandman: Black Winter is Galactus but simply on a universal level. Unless he got some new feats, I don't think his status is that high compared to Chthon.

Raj has posted showings and statements showcasing that Black Winter is actually multiversal: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/herald-thor-runs-the-cosmic-gl-gauntlet-2338316/#js-message-26976612

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WastelandMan

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#9  Edited By WastelandMan

@bigbaby:

I see. I read the arc with Black Winter and some of Thor’s recent ones, but I’m not super familiar with Thor’s overall lore, tbh.

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BigBaby

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@bigbaby:

I see. I read the arc with Black Winter and some of Thor’s recent ones, but I’m not super familiar with Thor’s overall lore, tbh.

Actually, Raj and Andi seem to have made a good case for him in the thread above. He got new feats in Defenders Beyond with implications that he was in the mystery. His presence seemed to kill Yggdrasil too, which is actually pretty good based on lore implications.

I personally still would go with Chthon based on him being more consistent multiversal. Not to mention what Ewing wrote about chaos magic being the seat/throne of all magic which I think could be scaled to Chthon as he was implied to be infinite chaos, and under Ewing's pen, Chthon is supposed to be a horror beyond the seven hells who somehow created the PSI Hawk. @rajjarsalt is more informed about that than me though. I also think the Griever scaling is pretty validated here too.

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WastelandMan

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@bigbaby:

That’s fair. And I didn’t even know Black Winter even had any other appearances outside the Thor series.

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jimohkolawol10

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Going with what Bigbaby said.

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rajjarsalt

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#13  Edited By rajjarsalt

Oh f*#(k me

The Winter has straight feats of blowing the 2nd Cosmos to smithereens and big chilling the 6th Cosmos. But I guess Chthon could win with magical means + him being tied to Ewing's Hell mythos which is one of the trump cards in Marvel. I'll settle for either way

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BigBaby

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@wastelandman: Honestly, I didn't know he had more feats either since that was the only storyline I read with him. But Raj brought in really good feats, arguably his best ones, so his RT definitely needs updating too.

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Soratoumiga

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@bigbaby: All the statements Griever gave regarding Chthon's power should decisively put him above Black Winter imo. And let's not forget The True Darkhold being every life that isn't, wasn't or ever could be is pretty much a confirmation of Chthon being in a higher place than Griever in this cosmic hierarchy. Furthermore, Chthon disturbed the balance of the cosmos and said imbalance angered powerful forces, on top of Agatha stating chaos magic(Chthon's magic) is on par with LT.

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BigBaby

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#16  Edited By BigBaby

@soratoumiga: Agree. Darkhold scaling is so clean because it's a portion of his power and it's obvious it's a tome of multiversal power that's easily scaleable to him, which is nice.

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Justaxviel

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@bigbaby said:

@soratoumiga: Agree. Darkhold scaling is so clean because it's a portion of his power and it's obvious it's a tome of multiversal power that's easily scaleable to him, which is nice.

even he could kill the entire space god aka celestials on his own

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Daddy got this

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rajjarsalt

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#19  Edited By rajjarsalt
@andromeda1001 said:

@wastelandman said:

Shouldn’t Black Winter be stronger given his status?

Besides that, Thor needed the help from Galactus and both needed to be amped to try to take him on. Meanwhile, Immortal Thor held his own and temporarily BFR’d Toranos solo, and I assume Toranos as another Elder God is at least comparable.

Well, I once saw @rajjarsalt saying that couldn't see BW non-selling All-Father's Thor's blast like Toranos did. I assume Chthon should be at a similar level as the Utgard gods.

Regarding Utgard I favor cosmological positions because powerscaling wasn't as fun.

Think of a wheel for a second...let's say it turns and turns...

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Now imagine a hole in the center of this wheel. See it?

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That's the Black Winter lol

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BigBaby

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