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#1 Edited by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44

VS
VS

@nickzambuto

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Rules

  • In character
  • Knowledge
  • Full gear
  • 10 minutes prep
  • To the death/KO/incap

Location

  • Begin visible
  • Cass begin at the house on the right, Chris on the left
  • Fight takes place here:
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Voters

If you want to be called for voting @reply me so I can add you to the list:

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#2 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto Let me know if you want me to change anything.

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#4 Posted by ComicStooge (22062 posts) - - Show Bio

Some loser with a gun vs Cassandra Cain?

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#5 Posted by NeonGameWave (19333 posts) - - Show Bio

Looking forward to this :)

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#6 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36317 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by BeaconofStrength (12487 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by Frisky4 (9216 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by i_like_swords (26079 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by FoolsGold (961 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Edited by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Edited by Frisky4 (9216 posts) - - Show Bio

Some loser with a gun vs Cassandra Cain?

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@nickzambuto will make you eat those words! Clearly you do not know the full extent of Chris Redfield!

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#13 Posted by hunterzillas (1183 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by captain_batman_FTW (8905 posts) - - Show Bio

Oooh, tag me for votes.

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#15 Posted by Sy8000 (34809 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh…

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#16 Edited by Bat_Girl_CC (6161 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Edited by Bat_Girl_CC (6161 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Edited by i_like_swords (26079 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

I would like to vote for this.

Some loser with a gun vs Cassandra Cain?

I'll tag you man but we will need to ask you to provide reasons as to why you voted. I don't want nick to think I cheated him out of a vote.

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#20 Edited by Frisky4 (9216 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Edited by Wardemon32 (5486 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#22 Posted by IndomitableRegal (15144 posts) - - Show Bio

I would ask to be tagged...but I already know I'll be biased. I won't say which character I'm rooting for...just that I'm backing @jashro44. Don't judge me.

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#23 Posted by TheBournePoster (2988 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: @jashro44: I think you guys made a mistake, one of these guys is from a comic book and the other a video game, it's an obvious stomp. Comics>video games

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#24 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: @jashro44: I think you guys made a mistake, one of these guys is from a comic book and the other a video game, it's an obvious stomp. Comics>video games

Shut. Up.

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#25 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36317 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: for sure add to the list for tagging my man. looks good.

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#27 Posted by Frisky4 (9216 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: @jashro44: I think you guys made a mistake, one of these guys is from a comic book and the other a video game, it's an obvious stomp. Comics>video games

And that's why Dante loses to Deadpool, Strider loses to Spider-Man, Wesker loses to Batman, Kratos loses to Deathstroke, but I do think you were joking.

When does this thing start! I'm anxious to see it happen.

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#28 Posted by TheBournePoster (2988 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

@frisky4 said:

When does this thing start! I'm anxious to see it happen.

On it.

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#30 Posted by deactivated-5a5a76120d2ba (5989 posts) - - Show Bio

Might want to make a rule on retarded Marvel Vs. Capcom powergrids... crap too late.

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#31 Posted by Night4345 (8450 posts) - - Show Bio

Poor Nick is going to have an aneurysm before this gets started.

Tag please.

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#32 Posted by Frisky4 (9216 posts) - - Show Bio

@frisky4: I was joking....

Figured as much.

Might want to make a rule on retarded Marvel Vs. Capcom powergrids... crap too late.

Nobody takes those seriously. I only used because I thought it was funny, and somebody was already dismissing Chris Redfield and thus NickZ's argument, so I used that picture. Like I said, nobody takes it seriously much less as canon.

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#33 Posted by senglord (2773 posts) - - Show Bio

@frisky4: is that a Spider-Man Power grid... I think so.

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#34 Posted by comicace3 (12425 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by unBREAKable_Fs4 (4316 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be interesting

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#36 Edited by Bat_Girl_CC (6161 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@bat_girl_cc said:

@jashro44:

I would like to vote for this.

@bat_girl_cc said:

Some loser with a gun vs Cassandra Cain?

I'll tag you man but we will need to ask you to provide reasons as to why you voted. I don't want nick to think I cheated him out of a vote.

@bat_girl_cc said:

@comicstooge said:

Some loser with a gun vs Cassandra Cain?

@bat_girl_cc said:

said:

@jashro44:

I would like to vote for this.

Totally not going to be biased or anything...

No Caption Provided

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#37 Edited by Bat_Girl_CC (6161 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebourneposter said:

@nickzambuto: @jashro44: I think you guys made a mistake, one of these guys is from a comic book and the other a video game, it's an obvious stomp. Comics>video games

Joking or not, i actually agree with this...at least the majority of them...of course that if you pick Dante from Devil May Cry, or guys like that...but video-game street-levelers in general look more impressive on the games than they actually are...but that's just my opinion.

Anyway, i'm curious to see how this will play out, and in the end i'm going to provide a serious explanation as to why i think either wins.

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#39 Posted by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio

Funny how people easily forgets the real purpose of a CaV battle.

I'd like to be on the voters list if possible, this seems like a great battle.

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#41 Posted by FukYouRenchamp (7109 posts) - - Show Bio

@higorm said:

Funny how people easily forgets the real purpose of a CaV battle.

I'd like to be on the voters list if possible, this seems like a great battle.

To you know, vote on who represented the character better. For some reason, people like to vote on who they think would win, on feats they've seen that may not of been put up, or arguements they think would let them win, when they weren't even argued.

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#42 Edited by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Let me start with saying that I acknowledge I am the underdog here. Cassandra Cain is after all a crazy comic book character with the martial arts and the pressure points and the whatnot, she basically has superhuman speed, and her muscle reading ability makes her the bane of all marksman from Gotham City to Ra's al Ghul's backyard. So, what exactly in my crazy fanboy mind makes me think Chris Redfield would actually beat her in a fight? Well first of all, let me just confirm that I really DO completely believe Chris has what it takes to defeat her on his own, at first I was a bit hesitant on this match, but after much deliberation I've finally decided. Cass might have every advantage I just listed in spades, but after thinking on it, Chris has plenty advantages himself that almost completely cancel out Cassandra's.

Let's start with the biggest: experience. And no I'm not talking generic "how old are they" or "how long have they been fighting" type experience, I'm talking about the type that matters, when a character actually learns and grows from their experience and the majority of their combat capabilities are shaped around it. Cassandra Cain HAS a lot of experience, being trained since birth and all, but rarely does she really take anything from it, just the opposite in fact, there are many examples of Cassandra being outsmarted or making a mistake, often a mistake that someone like Chris Redfield would never let himself fall into, and getting herself into trouble with it. She relies too much on physical confrontations without much use of tactics or strategy, something that characters like Batman and Deathstroke and even Nightwing have been able to capitalize on during their battles with her, and Chris too shall capitalize on this. Cassandra Cain might know a bunch of martial arts, but at the end of the day, Chris is bringing to the table a level of efficiency and tactical awareness that she simply can not keep up with. Surviving impossible scenarios and prevailing against overwhelming odds is literally Chris's thing, he's been in more dangerous situations than a fight with Batgirl, and unlike the aforementioned strategists who managed to get the better of Cass using their brains, Chris never shies away from making full use of his strategic abilities, throughout the full duration of a fight. He won't take a momentary advantage with a neat idea then immediately quit being tactical and fist fight Cassandra like Deathstroke would, he's ALWAYS thinking on his feet and every fight he's ever won has been via brains, not brawn. He's been a Special Operations Unit captain for years now, with his job being to lead a team of men into actual warzones and win singlehandedly, and before that he was a solo agent who took on more missions for the BSAA than any other member in the entire organization's history. The opening of Resident Evil 6 shows Chris managing to get his men actually excited to run into a suicide mission right after watching one of their comrades get carted off in a body bag, and he's looked at as a legend among most of the BSAA's members and soldiers. Chris is definitely a tactician just as capable as Batman, he might not have contingency plans made to stop every member of the JLA in case they go rogue, but he HAS been able to take down Tyrants and other powerful BOWs by himself with only the bare minimum of supplies and no time to prepare, and in my mind, that's just as good.

So, what exactly is Chris going to do with all this experience and tactical skills? I made sure we included knowledge and prep in our stipulations just for that; Chris is an expert at thinking on his feet, but if he's actually given time to think and prepare in peace, there's no telling what he'd be capable of. If Chris knows that he's going up against a super speeding bullet dodger and master martial artist, he'll immediately relate that to Wesker, and logically he should try a strategy similar to the one he used against Wesker against Cassandra. That is, get the F@#% out of close quarters, run the F@#% away as fast as he can, hide, and make use of some guerrilla warfare tactics. If Chris can just escape Cassy's line of sight, I'm confident he could elude her for the remainder of the fight and take her down with his weaponry from afar. Despite his size, he's actually considerably skilled at stealth and evasion, and I believe he's already shown himself capable of using it effectively against more deadly opponents and in more difficult situations than against Cassandra Cain. For example, in RE5, after being in constant combat for at least a few days with no rest, he and Sheva were confronted by Wesker and a brainwashed Jill Valentine, got beaten up, and were forced to hide just to survive. The gameplay might not do it justice, but Chris started in plain view of both his opponents, and despite not being half as fast as either, he was still able to disappear from them both and elude them through the halls and corridors of the area for a prolonged period of time.

Now not only is Jill an expert soldier in her own right with training from several elite agencies and extremely keen instincts honed from over a decade of combat experience, but she herself is actually extremely skilled at stealth too. Her father was an FBI's most wanted list master thief, and he taught her everything he knew about sneaking and stealing ranging from how to pick locks to how to walk on stairs without making them creak, in fact I actually believe she did her own fair share of heists before going legit and joining the army, and in RE3 she proved her skills by constantly eluding the Nemesis, an intelligent BOW programmed specifically to hunt her down. Wesker meanwhile should speak for himself, he's a genius and master strategist, with superhuman senses and the most elite training of any character in the series. He too can be rather skilled at stealth when need be, and his superhuman speed on top of all that just makes running away from him that much harder. Yet Chris was able to handle it all, and take care of Sheva too in the process.

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The next fight is more important. You might argue that the plethora of corridors in the last area made it easier for Chris to use stealth than this wide open graveyard, which is why this time, Chris and Wesker (and Sheva) are in a very large, wide open area with almost no cover besides a single large platform in the center. Last time Chris was able to lose Wesker in the corridors and halls of the area, but now he must manually shut off the lights himself and elude Wesker the old fashioned way. Fun fact: Chris and Leon are both highly skilled in ninjitsu, among other arts. Since the graveyard that Chris and Cass are fighting in is very dark as well, I believe this feat proves Chris should be capable of using stealth to his advantage, especially since Chris and Wesker began looking right at each other from a short distance in both instances, just like Chris and Cass are here.

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It's also worth mentioning that Chris and Sheva were beaten up by Jill and Wesker right before each respective boss fight, so if Cass manages to bring it to CQC before Chris has a chance to escape, don't worry about any injures hampering his abilities.

Referencing the latter boss fight once again, despite being massively outclassed by Albert Wesker in almost every category (much more so than how outclassed he is by Batgirl) Chris was still able to take the advantage over him by using stealth, and tag him numerous times with firearms and even a few RPGs. The difference between Wesker and Batgirl though, is that Batgirl can't keep getting back up after having a military arsenal pumped into her. Cass does tank bullets semi-regularly, but the 'double tap' is not a tactic lost on Chris Redfield, he fights bullet sponges almost on a daily basis and has formulated ways of dealing with them. With knowledge, Chris will know how tough Cass is and will likely opt to for a double heart/headshot to make sure she stays down, like so:

Range also isn't a problem for Chris, he can still shoot when his opponent is a distance away and hit them accurately in their vitals, like when Irving mutated into a towering sea monster and Chris just casually shot him in his weak point causing him to shriek in pain and escape into the water. So even if he needs to get far away from Cassy in order to lose her, he won't be hindered at all.

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Now I know that Cassandra is a bullet timer and actually landing a shot on her is a lot easier said than done, but the fact of the matter is, none of Cassandra's bullet timing feats are in the same league as a marksman of Chris Redfield's caliber. The fact of the matter is, canon fodder shooters just aren't in any way comparable to Chris, he's an award winning marksman who regularly makes near-impossible shots with little to no time to aim. This gif illustrates just how far above Chris is compared to canon fodder marksman; a Majini is wielding a gun turret aiming to kill Chris and Sheva, but due to the distance and heavy waves, he is unable to get a single shot anywhere near them, despite their lack of any cover. Meanwhile, from his position Chris is far more affected by the rocking waves than the Majini is, and he's under heavy fire to boot. Yet in an instant, he is able to draw his pistol and fire two rounds straight through the Majini's heart despite the Majini being protected by the turret plates, killing him instantly.

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Nobody Cassandra has faced would be able to make this shot, Chris is in another dimension compared to canon fodder, and there's no way to prove that Cassandra would be able to dodge his gunfire for long.

As a contingency plan, Chris could also try laying basic traps around the area just in case his opponent turns out to be more than he was expecting. Cass can dodge bullets, but there's no way she can outrun an explosion, meaning land mines and other such devices are perfect for dealing with her. Like I went over, she doesn't have the experience to anticipate that Chris might be using his bullets simply as a distraction to lure her over to the killzone, and given his arsenal of weaponry, I'm sure he could cook something up.

Chris has a steep advantage over Cassy right from the beginning with his variety of weapons and tools, and given his tactical expertise, he could probably concoct a seamless and effective strategy around this basic plan I laid out, especially with prep and knowledge. I'm probably the minority on Comic Vine, but to be honest I consider a good strategy to be far more dangerous than martial arts. A good strategy is versatile, and would account for the opponent's advantages including martial arts, whereas all martial arts can hope to do is overpower your opponent. I believe I'll stop here and let everyone assess my basic plan, we definitely have a lot more to discuss, but I'd like to here your response to this basic strategy before I go into variables and other potential scenarios.

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#43 Edited by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by Saren (27909 posts) - - Show Bio

But can Chris punch large rocks? This, I believe, is the question.

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#45 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

But can Chris punch large rocks? This, I believe, is the question.

Oh we'll get to that soon don't you worry.

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#46 Posted by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio

Too late for vote tags?

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#47 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously?

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#49 Posted by Frisky4 (9216 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Looking good.

Where did Wesker's super-everything go in that first fight though?

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#50 Posted by unBREAKable_Fs4 (4316 posts) - - Show Bio

Great opening. I'm looking forward to Jashro's response