Cell Saga Krillin runs a DBZ villains gauntlet

• Krillin is in top physical shape at the beginning of the gauntlet and he knows he is about to face a sucession of six powerful enemies
• He gets four senzu beans to use as he pleases, but he will otherwise not get any healing or rest between rounds
• Win by any means, although this is DBZ so KO or death are the standard
• Everyone is in-character and following their standard moral codes
• Pictured clothing and gear for every opponent
• The fights take place in a classic DBZ wasteland:

Gauntlet

1- Raditz

2- Nappa

3- Saiyan Saga Vegeta

4- Dodoria

5- Zarbon

6- Recoome

Debate

He makes it to saiyan saga Vegeta easily.

Now comes the tricky part.

Krillin’s last recorded power level in the manga was over 10,000. The last time he held his own against an opponent with a known power level was against Ginyu in Goku’s body who had a power level of like 24,000 or something, but he had Gohan’s help there and Ginyu wasn’t used to the body.

So Krillin might actually stop at Vegeta, especially if he goes great ape mode. However I’ll give Krillin the benefit of the doubt with his training and skill, so I’ll say he makes it to Recoome, but I think he stops there unless he gets a lucky destructo disc.

Clears easily

@alextheboss: V jump said Krillins power level when they fought Freeza was 75K

+ Vegeta said he Gohan and Krillin could beat first form Freeza if they fight together and he also stated that Krillin and Gohans PLs were steadily rising.

And considering this was in Freeza saga and OP he’s in Cell saga so he should be a good amount stronger.

Krillin managed to defend himself against the cell jr's albeit poorly. So yeah... He stomps.

Should logically clear.

After getting his power boost on Namek he was still no sold by a kick from Recoome

https://www.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/277/7

https://www.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/277/8

Yet years later in Cell Games he Could take a beating from Cell Jrs and not die

https://www.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/408/3

Could react to SSJ Trunks blast before it detonated

https://www.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/350/12

https://www.mangapanda.com/dragon-ball/350/13

Yeah Krillin should be able to take these guys no problem. His skill level is also pretty good Solar Flare + Whatever Energy Attack = GG.

@precrisisbardock: V-jump has weird numbers sometimes, it doesn’t hold as much weight as the daizenshuu. Vegeta was already held off first form Frieza a bit himself, so he felt confident with Gohan and Krillin backing him up, plus Krillin has good assist moves.

@alextheboss: But Vegeta specifically mentions his power rising.

Even without V jump we see Krillin fight well against Ginyu Goku and we know his power kept increasing through the Freeza fight. Then he trained for the androids.

@precrisisbardock: Yeah, which is why I think he can beat most of them, but I could still see great ape Vegeta or Recoome overpowering him. I could see Krillin clearing though. I think he would definitely lose to first form Frieza still, but Recoome is doable.

@alextheboss: Great ape could but I think he’d use a solar flare destructo disc combo after seeing it work on him before.

Recooome at 30K I couldn’t see beating Krillin when he could contest Ginyu Goku at 23K

@precrisisbardock: Recoome's power level was more like 40,000. Vegeta was 30,000 and Recoome beat him up pretty badly.

@alextheboss: Look it up its 30,000

@precrisisbardock: I did, no canon source has Recoome's power level at 30,000. Not to mention it flat out contradicts the manga. Recoome stomped Vegeta who had a power level of over 30,000.

All we know if Vegeta has a power level of 30,000 and Ginyu said Goku having a power level of 60,000 would have been enough to beat the Ginyu force. Most people put Recoome, Burter, and Jeice around 40k. There is no official number for them, and it definitely isn't 30,000.

He should clear.

Also, Vegeta should be below Dodoria.

Clears, if he can cut second form friezas tail off in the namek saga then he can definitely beat recoome in the cell saga. Couple of solar flares and destructo discs and it’s game over

@alextheboss: Alright, my point still stands I think it’s believable he should’ve doubled his power by then

@precrisisbardock: I could see that.

Krillin should curbstomp each round.

About the Ginyu part though, wouldn’t you think him not being used to Goku’s body is the reason why it’s at 23K in the first place though?

And there are instances where Gohan flat out isn’t helping him:

Gallery

And the big kicker in this scene imo is Vegeta implying that the both of them are actually holding back so they don’t harm Goku’s body:

And at this point in the story he can sense power levels.

@mainjp:

About the Ginyu part though, wouldn’t you think him not being used to Goku’s body is the reason why it’s at 23K in the first place though?

That is one of the reasons, but his body is a different size, so he would have to get used to using martial arts in that body as well. I agree Krillin doing as well as he did should put him near 20k though. That's why I said he would probably beat Zarbon and Dadoria, but when you get to Recoome who could be over 40k and great ape Vegeta who would be 180k, Krillin could run into problems. I could still see him winning, but I'm not sure it would be easy.

Clears.

Clears without much trouble.

Krillin should stomp.

If they aren’t power levels stated from the manga or directly from Akira, i don’t count them as useable. Daizenshu is very vague and also has things that don’t make sense. Kid Goku has a power level of 10 but a average farmer has a power level of 5 in DBZ. So kid Goku was only twice as strong as regular humans tanking bullets, axe to the head, and lifting cars ?

Meanwhile in reality The average gorilla is approximately six to 15 times as strong as average humans. And can run up to 20 to 25 mph. Meanwhile the average human probably can run 9 to 12 mph.

So by daizenshu logic:

Human = 5

Gorilla = 6 to 15 times more stronger than human

Gorilla power level = 30 - 75 and two times faster than the average human.

A gorilla is powerful enough to go against 21st Budokai Goku and krillin, going by daizenshu numbers. Going by daizenshu numbers kid Goku in beginning was only twice as strong which makes zero sense, he had multiple beyond twice as humans feats. Kid Goku should have least been 50 in daizenshu with his first appearance.

@alextheboss: @precrisisbardock: OP here. Personally I would ignore any power levels not given by Toriyama himself in any debate.

If we ignore everything that wasn't written by Akira, the power scaling actually makes complete sense. If we start counting Jump and Daizenshuu power levels, we get into the realm of "why DBZ fans are not taken seriously in Battle Forums".

@ouroborik: V-Jump shouldn't' be counted, but the Daizenshuu was overseen by Toriyama and is the official guidebook of the series. It is likely that some of the power levels in it were given by Toriyama himself. Most of the numbers in it were also in the manga, and pretty much all of the numbers in the Daizenshuu fit in pretty well. If you go by the other guides and magazines, yeah there are some problems, but the Daizenshuu numbers seem accurate for the most part.

@loveeveryone2:

Daizenshu is very vague and also has things that don’t make sense. Kid Goku has a power level of 10 but a average farmer has a power level of 5 in DBZ. So kid Goku was only twice as strong as regular humans tanking bullets, axe to the head, and lifting cars ?

Piccolo blew up the moon with a power level of at most around 1,000. King Piccolo blew up a city with a power level of less than 300. Do I really need to explain why a human having a power level of 5 would make no sense if power levels were linear? BoS Goku having a power level of 10 makes sense.

@alextheboss: That's good to know actually :)

The human with a power level of 5 is literally the only power level in the entire manga that doesn't seem linear and can easily be explained as the scouters not being able to measure someone so low.

@ouroborik:

The human with a power level of 5 is literally the only power level in the entire manga that doesn't seem linear and can easily be explained as the scouters not being able to measure someone so low.

Eh, I still think BoS Goku having a power level of 10 makes sense. We shouldn't think of 5 as an average human, that should be the number of humans in general. Remember than when Trunks was suppressed his power level was read as 5 even though he was ripped. 5 is human level, 10 is 2x beyond human level, not 2x stronger than an average man.

@alextheboss: @ouroborik: I think the farmers PL was 5 because he had his shotgun. We know gear counts towards PL like when Piccolo took off his weights

@ouroborik: Well unless they retconned Power Levels a farmer is 5 and kid Goku is 10. They are implying Goku is only twice as strong as a average human. No matter how you twist your words it is only Twice more which makes zero sense when he can perform stunts that are way beyond someone who is only twice as strong as a human.

BOS Goku should at least be 50 then 40 after losing tail, then maybe 80 - 90 Post Roshi Training.

Goku survived a gunshot from Bulma, that’s wayyyyy more than someone who is twice as durable and strong as a human can do. Then there’s other fighters in the verse like Videl and Mr Satan that are skilled and fast for humans but not as durable as Kid Goku and Kid Krillin who could tank being shot from bullets. So if a farmer is 5 videl and mr Satan would have to at least be a few points higher than the farmer. And even 8 or 7 is still too close to Bos Goku who is at 10. Therefore scaling from 10 is not really accurate. Daizenshu messes up. 10 seems more appropriate from fighters like mr Satan and videl who are considered human level but pretty strong for humans and much better than a lazy farmer who was at 5.

I think he should be at least 50 in Bos.

@loveeveryone2: Like I said, 5 isn't average human level, it's just human level. Trunks when fully suppressed had a power level of 5, and he is clearly above average human level.

And power levels don't follow a linear progression as I've already pointed out. King Piccolo tanked his own city level explosion with a power level of 260. King Piccolo is obviously more than 52x more durable than a regular human.

@alextheboss: @alextheboss: Power Levels make no sense and Akira was bad at math.

KP could no sell a city with a power level of 260 right ? Yet Piccolo Jr who is stronger than KP with a power level probably around 300+ max power attack was only small country level n then 5 years later they jump to moon level with power levels of 400+. There’s a big gap between King Piccolo and DBZ Piccolo who was at 408. 260 x 2 = 560. So by those numbers DBZ piccolo Power Level is not even twice as much as KP. And twice the level of city level is not moon level or even Continent Level.

A city takes 100 megatons to blow up

A small country takes 7 Teratons to blow up

A moon takes 433 exatons to blow up

The gap between small country to moon level is hundreds of times bigger and beginning of series DBZ Goku or piccolo is not hundreds of times more powerful than King Piccolo.

In real world average humans can probably lift 100 - 120 pounds. In real world there are humans that lift 2 and even 3 times that weight. Some are even twice as fast as regular humans, like sprinters. So if a regular human is 5 then a trained fighter should be at least 6 or 7. But what about animals like Tigers and Bears who are not bulletproof but faster and stronger than humans are they only 8 or 9 Then we get to Kid Goku who was leveled at 10. Makes no sense for him to be that low.

5 for average human. But what real martial artists that train

So what we know by DBZ Power Levels standards:

5= Regular Human

10= BoS Kid Goku

260= King Piccolo / City Level

300+ = Small Country Level

400+ = Moon Level

900+ = Moon Level via Goku Kamehameha

Special Beam Cannon = 1,330

Makes no sense. SBC is not even 10 times more powerful than City Level KP but somehow defeated Raditz who is a casual moon buster and should’ve had moon buster durability.

Power levels make no sense

@loveeveryone2:

Power Levels make no sense and Akira was bad at math.

Power levels make no sense

I agree with these statements.

Clears.

Where are you even getting those Power Levels from, dude?

Nowhere in the manga is Kid Goku ever given a Power Level.

Krillin clears easily. He and gohan got a stupid power boost towards the end of namek

Krillin clears. It’s hard to really gauge, but I think Cell Saga Krillin is beyond the Ginyu Force. Not beyond Frieza though.

@ouroborik: Read the entire thread I think all you saw was my comment probably because it’s the longest. But people are saying Kid Goku has a power level of 10 before Roshi training yet a farmer was only 5 so that would mean kid Goku was only twice as strong as a human which makes no sense.

Clears

Goku having a power level of 10 BoS is from both the Daizenshuu and the Super Exciting Guide. Piccolo Daimaō arc Goku was 260 the same as Piccolo himself.

Gallery

@mainjp: @loveeveryone2: Power levels that were not stated in the manga should not be taken seriously.

Krillin still manhandles the gauntlet.

Explain why.

Because they don't make sense.

If it doesn't make sense and it wasn't even created by the writer, it isn't canon.

@ouroborik: You didn’t explain why they didn’t make sense.

Daizenshuu and the Super Exciting Guidebook were approved by Toriyama as mentioned earlier. The Super Exciting Guide even mentions the official heights and weights of the characters hence the “Super Exciting” part.

This deserves its own topic.

Clears, by a considerate margin.

@mainjp: I agree this probably does need its own topic. Applying the Numbers to the characters and how much larger and close in number it doesn’t make sense

For instance krillin is like 206 in beginning of DBZ n King Piccolo who is city level only is 260. After 1 year of training krillin is at least in low 1,000s. So he got about 6 times stronger.

Large City level = 100 megatons

100 megatons x 6 = 600 megatons

Island level by real world logic

Krillin is way beyond island level post training see why it doesn’t make sense ?

Power levels are silly n was cool when we were kids but now...