Endless.
Celestials vs The Endless
The endless are Metaphysical entities that are fundamentally unbound to space, time, energy or heat, fundamental forces of very actions while the celestial fodders are multi-universe fodder that are creations and functions of space, time, energy and heat.
Trying to fight the endless is like trying to walk the up, or hear the up-down. it is gibberishly non sense.
mismatch
Endless.
Yep.
Personally I think it's very stupid for the Celestial to be able to even think they can imagine to touch one of an Endless, I mean do people read comics at all? Do you know what the Endless are? Do you know what a concept is? An idea that exist by all necessary necessity? T0AA cannot possibly even do nothing about the endless because according to comics even the Presence cannot undo them. Why? Because they are IDEAS! They're agency!!! For example how would you wipe destiny from reality when if it isn't you realizing your destiny to try to wipe out destiny from reality? It doesn't make sense and even by so doing so you're literally working with Desire, for desiring such action in the first place, and surely you would wanna need destruction to do that... And if that desire of trying to destroy destiny could not be met then you would be forced to loose hope and face DESPAIR! The celestials would look so stupid after realizing this... They would abandon such cause according to their destiny in destiny's book and Desire something else because they wouldn't wanna mess up with unthinkable realities. And I heard someone saying something like "the endless are featless". Guy you need to go grab some overture comics and think again... The endless are featless, yes because they're FEATS themselves!!!
Endless stomp, don't @ me
My argument here is counterintuitive to the general consensus. Taimut, the Dreaming Celestial, ascended to rival The Fulcrum in power. If we as readers consider Taimut as a labeled Celestial at this point in his evolution, then I will be siding with Taimut. In my opinion, The Fulcrum and The One Above All are the same being. The One Above All, at this point in Marvel History, is now a Trinity.
My argument here is counterintuitive to the general consensus. Taimut, the Dreaming Celestial, ascended to rival The Fulcrum in power. If we as readers consider Taimut as a labeled Celestial at this point in his evolution, then I will be siding with Taimut. In my opinion, The Fulcrum and The One Above All are the same being. The One Above All, at this point in Marvel History, is now a Trinity.
I agree...
The Fulcrum, for all intent and purpose, is an iteration of both a young Jack Kirby(Bartender) and Stan Lee(Blue Flame), both the Legendary True Creator Gods of multiple franchise mainstream ideas, characters and stories.
These days, the TOAA/AAOs is/are usually the writers and staff of the current books they display.
OT
Celestials create and erase Concepts:
...The Death Celestial destroyed the Engine and erased the Universe(616). However, 616 survived by way of divergence.
Is this a joke ? Every member of Endless solos
YES...joke's on you Germ! ;)
Endless gets STOMPED and replaced!!
Tiamut who's arguably the strongest Celestial of all was killed during Age of Apocalypse#14, which was confirmed in X-Treme X-Men#13. There's no reason Death doesn't solo.
Tiamut who's arguably the strongest Celestial of all was killed during Age of Apocalypse#14, which was confirmed in X-Treme X-Men#13. There's no reason Death doesn't solo.
Lol... it was merely his armor.
@cosmic_reign: The scan directly states:
The Dreaming Celestial has been destroyed.
There is no implication it was only his armour, especially considering Celestials are made up of armor, and no one has ever actually seen one without armour.
Celestials made the endless along with pretty much everything else in reality (excluding entities not connected to reality like Shuma or Null) so they should easily enough unmake them. The endless are unkillable and infinite because the OG Celestials made them that way.
What? Celestials didn't make Endless, they're from two entirely different franchises...
@cosmic_reign: The scan directly states:
The Dreaming Celestial has been destroyed.
There is no implication it was only his armour, especially considering Celestials are made up of armor, and no one has ever actually seen one without armour.
No implication to you...
If you follow Tiamut chronologically, you'd know that he had already left to be with the Fulcrum just prior to that story.
Their armor or shells are simply M-Bodies....a way for them to manifest in any universe. Apparently, they have no form.
@cosmic_reign: Funny how he hasn't actually appeared since then.
And them having M-bodies or having manifestations is pure speculation. From what we see on panel, in comics, Celestials are as what we see them, they have no "true forms", it's just something that iirc Reed Richards has theorized about.
Not that it would change the outcome, all of Celestials have been killed by the Beyonders, thus it makes Death's job easier. She can kill them and solo pretty easily, I just brought up Tiamut as he has the reputation of being the strongest Celestial.
Celestials made the endless along with pretty much everything else in reality (excluding entities not connected to reality like Shuma or Null) so they should easily enough unmake them. The endless are unkillable and infinite because the OG Celestials made them that way.
They're from two completely different entities, the celestials marvel, and the endless dc.
mismatch
@cosmic_reign: Funny how he hasn't actually appeared since then.
And them having M-bodies or having manifestations is pure speculation. From what we see on panel, in comics, Celestials are as what we see them, they have no "true forms", it's just something that iirc Reed Richards has theorized about.
Not that it would change the outcome, all of Celestials have been killed by the Beyonders, thus it makes Death's job easier. She can kill them and solo pretty easily, I just brought up Tiamut as he has the reputation of being the strongest Celestial.
What's funny? Tiamut only has a handful of appearances with most of them within the Eternals story arc where he ascends and clearly departs with the Fulcrum(TOAA). Only a retcon can change this. So we'll have to wait.
There are plenty more sources to prove Celestials are far more than their armor. This you'll get if you go deeper than panel pics. Also, why wouldn't "Reed's theory" be credible, considering he is arguably the smartest man in Marvel?
Not all of them...I personally would put the Beyonders and Celestials roughly in the same tier. They both are beyond the entirety of the Multiverse(s)...and remember that PreR Beyonder is just a baby unit of the Beyonders.
Death is an Abstract/Concept of the Multiverse. *A concept(in Marvel), that gets booted when venturing too close to Celestial property. Endless Death gets treated no different here. IMO
Tiamut aside...Scathan SOLOS
It's funny how the comics itself states he was destroyed, that would imply all of his essence/true form was destroyed, if you decide to call it that way, especially since he hasn't appeared ever since...
There are plenty more sources to prove Celestials are far more than their armor. This you'll get if you go deeper than panel pics.
There are some sources, but it's mostly speculation. If you think about it, none of the Celestials were shown to have armorless form in comics.
Also, why wouldn't "Reed's theory" be credible, considering he is arguably the smartest man in Marvel?
He's undeniably one of the smartest people in Marvel, but even as such, his theories and hypotheses can't be 100% trusted, especially since we're talking about higher dimensions and high tier entities. Tony Stark thought he could kill Phoenix Force, and the former is deemed as one of the smartest people in the universe.
Death is an Abstract/Concept of the Multiverse. *A concept(in Marvel), that gets booted when venturing too close to Celestial property. Endless Death gets treated no different here. IMO
Death doesn't get "booted" at Celestial property though. Death could freely roam the lands of Quarry of Creation (If you're talking about that), and was only expelled when The Coven/Witches of Infinity banished her from there. And Death of the Endless is far more powerful than Mistress Death, the latter is unable to claim entities resistant/immune to concept of death, and was clearly just an aspect of a greater concept of death, considering the fact that LT is superior to her, despite dying twice.
@soratoumiga: Actually M Bodies were first introduced as a definitive cosmic concept in Quasar's run, there was even a entire dimension where the M Bodies were created in the first place, so I'd say Reed is defo right about Celestials using M Bodies, unless Invisible Woman and Namor being able to smash, cut and slice through their armour is somehow their true forms as well lol
It is absurd that even a single user can support Taimut losing to any of The Endless. He absolutely eviscerates all of The Endless by himself. This really isn't even slightly debatable. This is absolute fact and counter statements to that are based on subjective opinion, which is massively flawed. Taimut became the third function of The One Above All and the idea that The Endless can solo The One Above All at that point in Marvel history, is beyond naive.
This is 2x the trouble if Scathan The Approver was also ascended, which he appeared to be. I subjectively believe he was.
@professorrespect: We never saw them having true forms, so no featz man
It is absurd that even a single user can support Taimut losing to any of The Endless. He absolutely eviscerates all of The Endless by himself. This really isn't even slightly debatable. This is absolute fact and counter statements to that are based on subjective opinion, which is massively flawed. Taimut became the third function of The One Above All and the idea that The Endless can solo The One Above All at that point in Marvel history, is beyond naive.
This is 2x the trouble if Scathan The Approver was also ascended, which he appeared to be. I subjectively believe he was.
Coming from someone who thinks Mandrakk and CAS exist in real world and can beat The Presence really holds on credibility here. Notice how your entire post doesn't even contain a single argument, but it's rather just nonsensical babbling that proves your lack of objectivity.
TOAA and The Fulcrum were a duo, prior to the recent re-write of whatever TOAA is now in Marvel. The Regulator story line has completely defiled the concept of TOAA but prior to that, during the Taimut story, the lore of TOAA was more like an actual supreme being.
After this point, Taimut, The Fulcrum and The One Above All became a trinity. If you take Taimut during this point and made him fight The Endless, he would defeat them. No question.
I make an argument on a subjective level with Scathan also being ascended, due to effortlessly putting a stop to powers that are superior to The Living Tribunal. If that is the case, it is very likely that Scathan The Approver also ascended in the same manner. That is subjective and just my opinion. Although, I believe the events of the Protege incident point to this very likely potential.
I don't think you quite understand, respectfully...
Most can be claimed by Death, as long as the concept of Death exists. But the concept of Death itself can be erased and recreated/replaced. Also, there's context to why certain entities(Dr. Strange) or groups(Elders of the U) are exempt from Death.
Here's a theory regarding Celestials having no true form/reality:
Celestials STOMP!!
I understand actually, I'm just pointing out what comic says.
Most can be claimed by Death, as long as the concept of Death exists. But the concept of Death itself can be erased and recreated/replaced. Also, there's context to why certain entities(Dr. Strange) or groups(Elders of the U) are exempt from Death.
DC/Vertigo Death will always exist, until everything ends. And literally everything. Of course, she has minor concepts, entities like Nekron or Black Racer are kind of like Mistress Death (only Mistress Death is stronger), but they embody the same concept, while not being the concept themselves. Death can be manipulated, even Hela has done that, who's weaker than actual Death, but not to the extent where she can entirely erase death. So as long as there is living things, there will be death. DotE has actually shown the ability to claim beings that are stated to be above the said concept, things that should logically be outside her reach and so on.
If you think Celestials win, fine with me, though I hardly. but respectfully disagree with that, due to reasons listed above.
Didn’t dream alone just make an entire complex Multiverse?
That would be a great feat! If its true, I wonder how complex compared to the Warp Multiverse within the Soul Stone, a mere artifact created/designed by Celestials.
@leothegreatest: dream created a copy of the multiverse outside the multiverse yes that was 2 issues ago
Didn’t dream alone just make an entire complex Multiverse?
That would be a great feat! If its true, I wonder how complex compared to the Warp Multiverse within the Soul Stone, a mere artifact created/designed by Celestials.
The Soul Stone contains a Pocket Multiverse. That's it.
Dream created an entire copy of the DC Multiverse. (in other words) not a fake unusable pocket universe feat.
As for Death of the Endless, Endless Death is a Platonic Concept of Death according to DC. And in Plato's theory of forms, Platonic Concepts are absolute, permanent and eternal. That is why Endless Death can claim beings who are not bound to physics space-time.
Lady Death in Marvel is an Arristotillian level concept of Death. Concepts bound by an object or construct. She is bound by a Multiverse. So If you destroy the Marvel Space-Time Multiverse, she will cease to function. Whilst Endless Death has claimed beings outside the System.
Sounds impressive!
However, I'm not denying Deaths jurisdiction over the DEAD. My point is that Death can stake her claims as long as the concept of death exists....
Still tho, Platonic is a man-made term and definition. A term which should have little to no meaning to beings far beyond the scope of human comprehension.
@cosmic_reign: @cosmic_reign:All of this ''stupid overpowered'' fictional stuff comes from human imagination, which allows them to have stupid superpowers on a multiversal scale. Only because it's human imagination doesn't make it weaker, because fiction is exactly that. That's an argument that doesn't apply. Thousand multiversal characters are bound by certain physical and metaphysical concepts/systems, so some are inferior to platonic concepts, depending on what conceptual feats they have. That varries from fiction to fiction.
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