Celestials vs The Endless

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OmegaDynasty

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#1  Edited By OmegaDynasty

 
 


 
 
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CosmicSpiral

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#2  Edited By CosmicSpiral

Endless. 

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OmegaDynasty

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#3  Edited By OmegaDynasty
@CosmicSpiral said:
"Endless.  "

What makes you say this? I know that the top tier are around Lucifer level a little under actually. As Lucifer shows respect to Morpheus, seems to casual speak to death telling her she has no claim on him.
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#4  Edited By CosmicSpiral
@OmegaDynasty said:

" @CosmicSpiral said:

"Endless.  "
What makes you say this? I know that the top tier are around Lucifer level a little under actually. As Lucifer shows respect to Morpheus, seems to casual speak to death telling her she has no claim on him. "
Lucifer's respect is not tied to the power level of those on the other side of the conversation. It's tied to how much he respects them as individuals. He speaks cordially to Morpheus, Duma, and Christopher Rudd yet speaks disrespectfully to Destiny and Yahweh of all people.  
 
The Endless are anthropomorphic manifestations of abstract concepts, tied to the existence of the universe. Morpheus cannot be truly destroyed unless A) he is rightfully punished by universal law (the Furies hounding him) or B) all sentient life is destroyed, including demons and angels and everything in-between, and dreams cease to exist. Not to mention, the Celestials have no answer to Death. 
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daak1212

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#5  Edited By daak1212
@CosmicSpiral said:
"@OmegaDynasty said:

" @CosmicSpiral said:

"Endless.  "
What makes you say this? I know that the top tier are around Lucifer level a little under actually. As Lucifer shows respect to Morpheus, seems to casual speak to death telling her she has no claim on him. "
Lucifer's respect is not tied to the power level of those on the other side of the conversation. It's tied to how much he respects them as individuals. He speaks cordially to Morpheus, Duma, and Christopher Rudd yet speaks disrespectfully to Destiny and Yahweh of all people.   The Endless are anthropomorphic manifestations of abstract concepts, tied to the existence of the universe. Morpheus cannot be truly destroyed unless A) he is rightfully punished by universal law (the Furies hounding him) or B) all sentient life is destroyed, including demons and angels and everything in-between, and dreams cease to exist. Not to mention, the Celestials have no answer to Death.  "

I will say Endless win but didnt Morpheus already die at the end of the Sandman series?
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OmegaDynasty

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#6  Edited By OmegaDynasty
@CosmicSpiral said:
"@OmegaDynasty said:

" @CosmicSpiral said:

"Endless.  "
What makes you say this? I know that the top tier are around Lucifer level a little under actually. As Lucifer shows respect to Morpheus, seems to casual speak to death telling her she has no claim on him. "
Lucifer's respect is not tied to the power level of those on the other side of the conversation. It's tied to how much he respects them as individuals. He speaks cordially to Morpheus, Duma, and Christopher Rudd yet speaks disrespectfully to Destiny and Yahweh of all people.   The Endless are anthropomorphic manifestations of abstract concepts, tied to the existence of the universe. Morpheus cannot be truly destroyed unless A) he is rightfully punished by universal law (the Furies hounding him) or B) all sentient life is destroyed, including demons and angels and everything in-between, and dreams cease to exist. Not to mention, the Celestials have no answer to Death.  "

The only reason Lucifer speaks disrespectfully of Destiny is because he has power over him..well somewhat. With the book that he writes everything in the universe in.
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morpheus_

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#7  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@daak1212 said:
"I will say Endless win but didnt Morpheus already die at the end of the Sandman series? "
Morpheus died. Dream lives. You can't kill an idea, just a point of view.
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Decoy Elite

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#8  Edited By Decoy Elite

Endless take this one.

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TheJuggernautpunch

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Depends on which Celestials you use . For example , if Scathan and The Dreaming Celestial are there , I think Celestials win .

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Decoy Elite

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#10  Edited By Decoy Elite
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" Depends on which Celestials you use . For example , if Scathan and The Dreaming Celestial are there , I think Celestials win . "
How do you beat the personification of Death or any of the other Endless?
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TheJuggernautpunch

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@Decoy Elite: Ask Living Tribunal .
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OmegaDynasty

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#12  Edited By OmegaDynasty
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
"Depends on which Celestials you use . For example , if Scathan and The Dreaming Celestial are there , I think Celestials win ."

This is all versus all.
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Decoy Elite

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#13  Edited By Decoy Elite
@TheJuggernautpunch: Has LT ever beaten Marvel's death? Even then, isn't he suppose to be stronger than the Celestials? 
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TheJuggernautpunch

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@Decoy Elite: LT is more powerful than all abstracts combined . LT respects only one Celestial - Scathan . The Dreaming Celestial rivaled Fulcrum , and some say that Fulcrum is TOAA .
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#15  Edited By Decoy Elite
@TheJuggernautpunch: But has he ever killed Death? No. You can't kill the personification of Death in Marvel and the same is true of Death of the Endless. There are ways the Endless can be killed, although they're replaced and don't truly die. There is no way for the Celestials to win, because they have no way to eliminate their opponents. It could be argued that the Endless can't kill the Celestials, but I'm no expert on either I only know what little I have picked up.
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TheJuggernautpunch

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@Decoy Elite: Just because he hasn't done it doesn't mean he cannot do it . He is the second most powerful character after TOAA .
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Decoy Elite

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#17  Edited By Decoy Elite
@TheJuggernautpunch:  Okay, have the Celestials ever shown the ability to kill Death? Have they shown that they might ever be able to do something like that?
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TheJuggernautpunch

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@Decoy Elite: Scathan can disapprove Endless and that would beat them . And if someone proves me that Fulcrum is TOAA , then the Dreaming Celestial will stomp them .
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#19  Edited By Decoy Elite
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @Decoy Elite: Scathan can disapprove Endless and that would beat them . And if someone proves me that Fulcrum is TOAA , then the Dreaming Celestial will stomp them . "
Scathan disapproves the Endless? What the heck is that going to do and don't pull up that scan of them using that one the Protege, the Protege is not the personification of an idea. And Fulcrum might not be the TOAA(if fact I've heard many say this is untrue) so that's a moot point.
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TheJuggernautpunch

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@Decoy Elite: Protege was able to copy LT powers , and LT is more powerful than abstracts .
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#21  Edited By Decoy Elite
@TheJuggernautpunch: That doesn't put Scathan above the LT. He only put his thump up, he didn't actually stop Protege at all. (I think, I haven't seen that scan in a while)
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OmegaDynasty

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#22  Edited By OmegaDynasty
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @Decoy Elite: Protege was able to copy LT powers , and LT is more powerful than abstracts . "

Remember Lucifer was angry with Destiny because he had powers over him and as many battle threads have suggested Lucifer + Michael = LT, possibly.
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TheJuggernautpunch

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@Decoy Elite: Yes , it doesn't put Scathan above LT . But the fact that LT needed him means something , he ?
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#24  Edited By Decoy Elite
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @Decoy Elite: Yes , it doesn't put Scathan above LT . But the fact that LT needed him means something , he ? "
It doesn't mean that Scathan can rule abstracts out of existence.
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RiseofApocalypse

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#25  Edited By RiseofApocalypse

Scathan can solo. Even without Scathan, Exitar + Tiamut + OAA + Arishem + Ziran + Ashema can do this. The Endless are virtually featless.

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TheJuggernautpunch

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@Decoy Elite: Actually it does , since LT can do that easily .
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#27  Edited By Decoy Elite
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @Decoy Elite: Actually it does , since LT can do that easily . "
No, no it does not. Helping LT =/= being as strong as LT. For all we know, Sathcan just tipped things in LT favor since Protege was only equal to LT at the time.
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RiseofApocalypse

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#28  Edited By RiseofApocalypse

So, putting Protege in muzzle against his will, rendering him helpless and not losing to him, isn't good enough now days?

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#29  Edited By Decoy Elite
@RiseofApocalypse said:
" So, putting Protege in muzzle against his will, rendering him helpless and not losing to him, isn't good enough now days? "
Is he the one who puts Protege in the muzzle? Do you have the scan?
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TheJuggernautpunch

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@Decoy Elite: Yeah , but when Scathan disapproves someone , the power to beat opponent appears , and I think that is because of Living Tribunal .
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#31  Edited By Decoy Elite
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @Decoy Elite: Yeah , but when Scathan disapproves someone , the power to beat opponent appears , and I think that is because of Living Tribunal . "
The Living Tribunal isn't in this fight,  he's not a Celestial. And I don't think Scathan's power of instantly spawning plot devises(if he can even do that) is allowed here as there is no plot in battle threads.
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#32  Edited By RiseofApocalypse
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#33  Edited By Decoy Elite
@RiseofApocalypse: I can only see one of those and it's him giving the thumbs up. :/
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#34  Edited By RiseofApocalypse
@Decoy Elite:  
They all work for me. 
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#35  Edited By Decoy Elite
@RiseofApocalypse said:
" @Decoy Elite:  They all work for me.  "
That doesn't help me much. Why don't you upload them to the site and then post them or something similar?
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RiseofApocalypse

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#36  Edited By RiseofApocalypse
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#37  Edited By CosmicSpiral
@daak1212 said:

" @CosmicSpiral said:

"@OmegaDynasty said:

" @CosmicSpiral said:

"Endless.  "
What makes you say this? I know that the top tier are around Lucifer level a little under actually. As Lucifer shows respect to Morpheus, seems to casual speak to death telling her she has no claim on him. "
Lucifer's respect is not tied to the power level of those on the other side of the conversation. It's tied to how much he respects them as individuals. He speaks cordially to Morpheus, Duma, and Christopher Rudd yet speaks disrespectfully to Destiny and Yahweh of all people.   The Endless are anthropomorphic manifestations of abstract concepts, tied to the existence of the universe. Morpheus cannot be truly destroyed unless A) he is rightfully punished by universal law (the Furies hounding him) or B) all sentient life is destroyed, including demons and angels and everything in-between, and dreams cease to exist. Not to mention, the Celestials have no answer to Death.  "
I will say Endless win but didnt Morpheus already die at the end of the Sandman series? "
Because he mercy-killed his son, giving the Furies the power to kill him. Even then, he re-manifested as Daniel.  
 
@OmegaDynasty said:

" @CosmicSpiral said:

"@OmegaDynasty said:

" @CosmicSpiral said:

"Endless.  "
What makes you say this? I know that the top tier are around Lucifer level a little under actually. As Lucifer shows respect to Morpheus, seems to casual speak to death telling her she has no claim on him. "
Lucifer's respect is not tied to the power level of those on the other side of the conversation. It's tied to how much he respects them as individuals. He speaks cordially to Morpheus, Duma, and Christopher Rudd yet speaks disrespectfully to Destiny and Yahweh of all people.   The Endless are anthropomorphic manifestations of abstract concepts, tied to the existence of the universe. Morpheus cannot be truly destroyed unless A) he is rightfully punished by universal law (the Furies hounding him) or B) all sentient life is destroyed, including demons and angels and everything in-between, and dreams cease to exist. Not to mention, the Celestials have no answer to Death.  "
The only reason Lucifer speaks disrespectfully of Destiny is because he has power over him..well somewhat. With the book that he writes everything in the universe in. "

Destiny has no "power" to speak of. He hates Destiny because it is the representation of the thing Lucifer detests the most. He also insults Yahweh to his "face" at certain points.  
 
@TheJuggernautpunch: Don't be stupid. What has Scathan shown beyond that one appearance (that PIS-filled one appearance) which warrants him winning a fight against any of the Endless? Scathan couldn't even beat Delirium if he tried. 
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OldIdiotAccount

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#38  Edited By OldIdiotAccount

Celestials.

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Crom-Cruach

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#39  Edited By Crom-Cruach

Endless win.

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#40  Edited By Xi Felix

Endless.
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IcePrince_X

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#41  Edited By IcePrince_X

the endless... 
 
their abstract personalities and powers make them invincible and complicated for a very straight minded celestials.

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RiseofApocalypse

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#42  Edited By RiseofApocalypse
@IcePrince_X said:

" the endless...  their abstract personalities and powers make them invincible and complicated for a very straight minded celestials. "

No it doesn't. Other than Morpheus/Dream, they are very limited.
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King Saturn

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#43  Edited By King Saturn
The Endless for the win
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#44  Edited By Natrule

The Endless, easily. They, for all intents and purposes, cannot be killed. Only their present personifications could. They embody their respective selves. Celestials, for all intents and purposes, are beings that have destinies, dreams, and conceivably, deaths. That alone makes them far inferior than the Endless. Heck, I would even think the Endless will regard them as curiosities.

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#45  Edited By primebonnick

Endless because of death and destiny

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#46  Edited By kevdude

The Endless for the big win.
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#47  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator

Endless.

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well it was said the celestials can create and destroy universes at will meaning they can creat abstracts that are just m-bodys  OAA's servants so i think they may give the endless a run for their money taking into account they incredibly smart

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#49  Edited By Hyper_God

@ToALL :

I know that this thread is somewhat old , but a few clarifications are needed for people confused or ignorant about the Scathan/LT/Protege incident .

Therefore , I am basically copying everything I wrote down in another thread regarding the Scathan/LT/Protege Incident . To all those who still doubt the veracity or legitimacy of this feat , read the following text carefully and understand how truly grand Scathan's feat was :

"He was displayed as superior to every other Abstract , save perhaps LT (and even that is debatable) .

Here , Beyonder tells us that "on the boy rests the fate of any and all realities" , after Protege copies LT's powers :

What is LT's reaction ?" Logical confirmation"(also note that while Scathan was only silently observing , Eternity was supremely shocked , while Hawk God felt "cold fear") :

Hawk God hopes that Scathan will help them , but Eternity tells him that Scathan's purpose is to "only record and observe" :

Here , the LT actually states(I know it sounds retarded , but it is right there on-panel) that they may need the Amulet of the Ancient One :

Protege proceeds to attack LT, Eternity, Hawgod and GOTG, they all seem to be getting stomped (LT looks peculiar ... but he's there) . The ONLY one NOT there is Scathan :

Now , Scathan re-appears on-panel with power and authority :

Protege is subdued :

Here , LT tells Scathan to lift the Celestial muzzle , and Scathan PHYSICALLY restrains Protege(he still possessed the power of all beings he had duplicated at this juncture) :

Scathan , in a way , gets the last say in the matter(duly noted by Eternity) :

Here is confirmation that the LT was indeed clandestinely drawing power from the Amulet of the Ancient One :

LT's official bio corroborates the entire incident . It clearly mentions that Protege "manifested the Tribunal's own powers" , and it also clearly states that it was Scathan who saved reality :

In that arc , Scathan defeated and restrained a being who possessed the combined power of LT , Eternity , Hawk God , Beyonder , to name a few . Here's proof(he had already copied the Beyonder's power prior to their meeting with the cosmic entities) :

"

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