Celestials vs Elder Gods

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bigcimmerian

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#1  Edited By bigcimmerian

- 4th host as they fought Odin

- Elder gods include Gaea, Chthon, Set, Oshtur and Atum Demogorge

- No prep, 1 round take place in Chthon's dimension, 2 round take place on Earth, who wins and why?

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Betatesthighlander1

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Celestials should win on Earth (though I'm gonna say Gaea's giving them a tough fight first)

In Chthon's dimension, the elder gods are gonna do better certainly, but The Celestials should still take this (barely)

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Sy8000

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#3  Edited By Sy8000
@Betatesthighlander1 said:

Celestials should win on Earth (though I'm gonna say Gaea's giving them a tough fight first)

In Chthon's dimension, the elder gods are gonna do better certainly, but The Celestials should still take this (barely)

Gaea give them a hard fight? She was imprisoned by dormmanu, who cant even beat a single celestial. 
It goes similar in chthons dimension. Celestials stomp.
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Lord_Johnathan

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#4  Edited By Lord_Johnathan

The Celestials are just on a completely different level than Divine entities in general. They're going to stomp once again.

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Betatesthighlander1

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@highaccuser: Hey, she almost gave Hercules the power to fight Chaos King

And Chthon has like, all the arcane knowledge in the universe..................................................................................................................................................

yeah, Celestials stomp

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thanosii

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#6  Edited By thanosii

the vishanti stalemated shuma gorath, who is above celestial. There is a arishem for every universe yet only one oshtur that makes her multiversal. Again agomotto the weakest of the vishanti stalemated a fed galactus oshtur is much more powerful. Against slorith the battle threatened to destroy the multiverse. Dormanu also captured eternity so capturing gaea with prep aint bad. This is a battle of very even opponents but in extra dimensions celestials lose

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dondave

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#7  Edited By dondave

4th Host

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Bo88gdan

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#8  Edited By Bo88gdan

@dondave said:

4th Host

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OmgOmgWtfWtf

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#9  Edited By OmgOmgWtfWtf

This has been done before.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/elder-gods-vs-space-god/747688/?page=6

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/elder-gods-vs-space-god/747688/?page=6

Pretty much the consensus is that the Elder Gods have little feats that say they wouldn't be stomped by the Celestials in a spiteful fashion.

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TheSecondOpinion

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#10  Edited By TheSecondOpinion

Elder Gods win.

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Lord_Johnathan

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#11  Edited By Lord_Johnathan

@TheSecondOpinion said:

Elder Gods win.

No, not even close. Shall we play the curbstomp song? Because the Elder Gods have shown precisely squat that would allow them to tango with the Celestials. Just what is so hard to accept about the fact that the Celestials are just on a completely different level than the Gods?

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TheSecondOpinion

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#12  Edited By TheSecondOpinion

@Lord_Johnathan said:

@TheSecondOpinion said:

Elder Gods win.

No, not even close. Shall we play the curbstomp song? Because the Elder Gods have shown precisely squat that would allow them to tango with the Celestials. Just what is so hard to accept about the fact that the Celestials are just on a completely different level than the Gods?

The Elder Gods win.

Yes, we can play the Curbstop Song

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Lord_Johnathan

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#13  Edited By Lord_Johnathan

@TheSecondOpinion :

As you have provided no evidence when the burden of proof is squarely on you, I am going to have to dismiss you as a troll. Good day.

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TheSecondOpinion

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#14  Edited By TheSecondOpinion

@Lord_Johnathan:

That's because I have already explained it before. Should I repeat myself simply because a new thread has been duped? You are of course entitled to keep your opinion though.

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BlessedbyHorus

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#15  Edited By BlessedbyHorus

I truly believe Elder Gods are really fan wanked by some people. I mean what have they shown to be so powerful compared to abstracts and some people have claimed that they are multiversal..

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TheSecondOpinion

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#16  Edited By TheSecondOpinion

And you guys call Celestials abstract, why?

Also, a good majority of people on this forum are ill-informed about the concept of the term Abstract. Abstracts are not the most powerful things in the universe. They are just ideas. And Ideas can be manipulated.

The Elder Gods are not abstract, but they are more transparent than Celestials. Celestials are corporeal while the Elder Gods are just an area of consciousness.

Tell me:

  • Can a Celestial Armor be destroyed?
  • Can a consciousness be destroyed physically?

There's your answer.

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darkknight96000

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#17  Edited By darkknight96000

@TheSecondOpinion: I'm pretty sure the Celestials are incorporeal beings. The only reason for the armor is so they interact with the physical universe.

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TheSecondOpinion

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#18  Edited By TheSecondOpinion

@DarkKnight96000 said:

@TheSecondOpinion: I'm pretty sure the Celestials are incorporeal beings. The only reason for the armor is so they interact with the physical universe.

Yes, your right!! Good job!

That's why I said:

@TheSecondOpinion said:

The Elder Gods are not abstract, but they are more transparent than Celestials.Celestials are corporeal while the Elder Gods are just an area of consciousness.

Celestials are only corporeal when they create an armor for themselves to interact with physical 3D space!

But here's another question:

  • Once a Celestial Armor is destroyed, how long does it take the owner of that armor to reconstruct another armor for itself?
  • Once a physical representation of an Elder God is destroyed, how long does the Elder God have to take to build another physical representation of themselves?
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darkknight96000

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#19  Edited By darkknight96000

@TheSecondOpinion: 1. Not long, almost instantaneous.

2. The Elder Gods are not incorporeal, there a step above skyfathers (Odin, Zeus, etc). However they are still far below abstracts and celestials.

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TheSecondOpinion

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#20  Edited By TheSecondOpinion

@DarkKnight96000 said:

@TheSecondOpinion: 1. Not long, almost instantaneous.

2. The Elder Gods are not incorporeal, there a step above skyfathers (Odin, Zeus, etc). However they are still far below abstracts and celestials.

No, because

  • Invisible Woman destroyed a Celestial armor and it did not come back until many years later.
  • When Galactus 'killed' that young Celestial, it did not come back.
  • When Beyonder was playing around with the Celestials, severally damaging them, they did not recover 'fast' enough.
  • When Super Ego the Living Planet was fighting 10,000 Celestials, some did not come back instantly.
  • When Thanos fought against One Above All and (Arishem?), they did not recover instantly from that fight.
  • When THor used the God Blast against the head of a Celestial, it did not repair itself 'instantly'.
  • When Dr. Doom killed 10,000 (or more) Celestials, they were permanently gone.

This can't be said about the Elder Gods...... You can't kill Elder Gods. They can only be banished from one reality to another and contained there temporarily.

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Betatesthighlander1

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@thanosii: Neither Elder gods, nor Vishanti, nor SHuma Gorath are multiversal

@TheSecondOpinion: In their battle against Odin in Thor #300, they could rebuild their armor almost instantaneously

we don't really know how to kill an elder God

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darkknight96000

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#22  Edited By darkknight96000

@TheSecondOpinion: 1. Celestial probably didn't care enough to come back to fight Sue Storm.

2. Galactus > Celestials > Eldder Gods.

3. Pre-retcon Beyonder > everyone (Marvel and DC).

4. Celestials killed him.

5. Thanos had the Infinity Gauntlet.

6. Thor only destroyed the Celestial's head and said Celestial barely noticed.

7. Infinity Gauntlet again, also it was a What If.

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TheSecondOpinion

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#23  Edited By TheSecondOpinion

@DarkKnight96000 said:

@TheSecondOpinion: 1. Celestial probably didn't care enough to come back to fight Sue Storm.

2. Galactus > Celestials > Eldder Gods.

3. Pre-retcon Beyonder > everyone (Marvel and DC).

4. Celestials killed him.

5. Thanos had the Infinity Gauntlet.

6. Thor only destroyed the Celestial's head and said Celestial barely noticed.

7. Infinity Gauntlet again, also it was a What If.

Celestials didn't kill number 4. They had to banish it. And it took a whole army of them to do it.

2) How can Galactus be above a Celestial when it's easier to manipulate his energy over their energy.... But yet some can not manipuate Elder God energy only if it is granted to them... For example Thor using the God Blast is Gaea's Energy.

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bigcimmerian

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#24  Edited By bigcimmerian

@Lord_Johnathan: But, didn't Galactus one shotted Celestials few months ago in FF comics?

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thanosii

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#25  Edited By thanosii

the best comparison still remains as Galactus. He killed a celestial by reaping it apart but could only stalemate Agomotto. that in itself tells us elder gods are at least equal to Galactus who is above celestials. To argue tht is ridiculous. And the VISHANTI fight with Silorith was a multiversal threat. Also there is only one Vishanti who together are omniscent which celestial can claim that. Using a vishanti spell Strange one shotyed Galactus who again saying has killed celestials. Can someone ask Mr Master to this debate cos he has all the scans

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ShootingNova

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#26  Edited By ShootingNova

Is this in response to the "Pantheon Gods vs. Celestials" thread?

I've already posted my thoughts:

@ShootingNova said:

Arishem effortlessly solo-stomped the three most powerful Sky-fathers by himself.

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He could probably take on all the skyfathers simultaneously, if not, then with the aid of several other Celestials. Then the rest of the Celestials curbstomp the rest of the pantheons (Odin at maximum amp couldn't even permanently harm a single nameless Celestial, and he would be the most powerful Pantheon Skyfather here).

Gaea was begging Arishem (and her best feat was striking with the power of a planet, and virtually all Celestials are too durable to be affected by planetary blasts), and didn't Set stalemate her? Even if not, Set was defeated and banished by Neptune, who is below Zeus:

No Caption Provided
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Credit goes to Killemalll for these scans (I can't caption the last scan, oddly)

Chthon should be around Set's level of power, or maybe slightly more. I don't see the Elder Gods even harming the Celestials.

Celestials stomp.

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thanosii

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#27  Edited By thanosii

@shooting star do u even read yo own scans because it clearly states that that is an idol not Set and he needs a sacrifice to emerge. It took neptune himself to prevent tht sacrifice. Now using logic why wud Neptune not allow Set to emerge then kill him? Could it be he was afraid? Remember Elder gods are the fathers of titans who are the fathers of the pantheons including Neptunes. Read yonown scans before saying Neptune battled Set. Hope it becomes clear to you

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New_World_Order

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#28  Edited By New_World_Order

The Vishanti would be a better match.

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ShootingNova

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#29  Edited By ShootingNova

@thanosii: What are you even talking about? I never said Neptune battled Set, I said he destroyed the mini statue, but the point is that he severed Set's life force and banished him. That's what the bio even says:

No Caption Provided

Being the father of somebody doesn't necessarily mean you are stronger. Zeus has better feats than Cronos, and so does Neptune and Pluto.

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

The Vishanti would be a better match.

Aren't the Vishanti multiversal, or even greater? Agamotto alone stalemated (some say he toyed with) Galactus. Galactus destroyed some nameless Celestials (I'm not saying he can beat Arishem and so forth).

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New_World_Order

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#30  Edited By New_World_Order

@ShootingNova said:

@thanosii: What are you even talking about? I'm not saying Neptune destroyed Set, I said he destroyed the mini statue, but the point is that he severed Set's life force and banished him. That's what the bio even says:

No Caption Provided

Being the father of somebody doesn't necessarily mean you are stronger. Zeus has better feats than Cronos, and so does Neptune and Pluto.

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

The Vishanti would be a better match.

Aren't the Vishanti multiversal, or even greater? Agamotto alone stalemated (some say he toyed with) Galactus. Galactus destroyed some nameless Celestials (I'm not saying he can beat Arishem and so forth).

Yeah, but is still better than this

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thanosii

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#31  Edited By thanosii

oshtur is the main power house of the vishanti and together they stalemated cthon so i stand by the elder gods on this.

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Killemall

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#32  Edited By Killemall

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@highaccuser: Hey, she almost gave Hercules the power to fight Chaos King

All Gaea did was awaken Hercules full potential, his source of power actually comes from various artifacts Cho collected during Hercules: Prince of Power, which he used to bring Hercules back to out dimension, as well as make him a super god. He was already pretty damn powerful during the series, just did not know how to control his power, that is what Gaea helped him with.

And Chthon has like, all the arcane knowledge in the universe..................................................................................................................................................

Chthon is master of black arts, more than anything else. But we have seen that really did not help him, and like i pointed out his best till date is limited to planetary level reality warp, very unimpressive i would say.

@Lord_Johnathan said:

No, not even close. Shall we play the curbstomp song? Because the Elder Gods have shown precisely squat that would allow them to tango with the Celestials. Just what is so hard to accept about the fact that the Celestials are just on a completely different level than the Gods?

Haha , totally agree :) Cosigned.

Although Osthur could likely be a problem.

@TheSecondOpinion said:

No, because

  • Invisible Woman destroyed a Celestial armor and it did not come back until many years later.
  • When Galactus 'killed' that young Celestial, it did not come back.
  • When Beyonder was playing around with the Celestials, severally damaging them, they did not recover 'fast' enough.
  • When Super Ego the Living Planet was fighting 10,000 Celestials, some did not come back instantly.
  • When Thanos fought against One Above All and (Arishem?), they did not recover instantly from that fight.
  • When THor used the God Blast against the head of a Celestial, it did not repair itself 'instantly'.
  • When Dr. Doom killed 10,000 (or more) Celestials, they were permanently gone.

This can't be said about the Elder Gods...... You can't kill Elder Gods. They can only be banished from one reality to another and contained there temporarily.

1. Because Invisible Woman used a hax code, her ability to derive powers from hyperspace, which being the source of celestial power were their kryptonite

2. When Atum killed a bunch of Elder Gods, none came back as well.

3. What has Beyonder got anything to do with Elder Gods? Beyonder isnt even a demon, let alone fall under class 1 category. Its like saying Scanthan was superior to Living Tribunal, while Elder gods got punked by Neptune, and Spiderwoman :p

4. Rest dont really have anything to do with it.

We dont know if Elder Gods actually cant be killed by converntional means, we however know Atum did in fact kill a bunch of Elder Gods. Then they dont have to be banished, we have seen Atum rip apart the head of elder gods, and banishment seem like a perfect mode of victory. Furthermore, when Atum banished Elder God, specially Set it was permanent, and still affects him until now despite been done 4 decades ago, the only loop hole being if someone helps, then he can come back to earth.

@thanosii said:

oshtur is the main power house of the vishanti and together they stalemated cthon so i stand by the elder gods on this.

Vishanti have never even met Chthon? Not sure where you are getting that from?

@TheSecondOpinion said:

2) How can Galactus be above a Celestial when it's easier to manipulate his energy over their energy.... But yet some can not manipuate Elder God energy only if it is granted to them... For example Thor using the God Blast is Gaea's Energy.

The fact that Galactus was capable of fighting against Galactus Engine, when entire celestial had to retreat shows Galactus is likely superior. Celestial, back in 70s, were intentionally created to be more powerful than Galactus, however recent story arc states against it.

Secondly Elder Gods energy doesnt need to be manipulated when they can be hurt and pushed back just fine. Atum and Spiderwoman had done that to Chthon, Neptune has done that to Set, why cant Celestials.

@thanosii said:

the best comparison still remains as Galactus. He killed a celestial by reaping it apart but could only stalemate Agomotto. that in itself tells us elder gods are at least equal to Galactus who is above celestials.

Galactus was amped on power of 4 planets when he did that though. Then it was a hungry Galactus, fighting Agamatto in his own realm, eventhen Agamatto and Elder Gods have very little in comon. Can you substantiate it based on a feat from either Chton, or Set?

Osthur is the only problem, and thats it. Set and Chton have done absolutely squat to be compared to this level, and Atum is a skyfather level being.

. And the VISHANTI fight with Silorith was a multiversal threat. Also there is only one Vishanti who together are omniscent which celestial can claim that. Using a vishanti spell Strange one shotyed Galactus who again saying has killed celestials. Can someone ask Mr Master to this debate cos he has all the scans

Vishanti never fought against solorith, it was just satement. They let themself down to being judged by LT who banished Solorith with a wave of his hands.

Strange one shotted, a hungry, weak Galactus to a point he was actually physically shrinking.

BTW feel free to ask for scans, i can show you every scans here.

Unrelated: Master is more into cosmic being as opposed to mystical being, i dont think he has as impressive collection of scans from mystical beings.

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/killemall/collection-of-my-chronology-threads/87-89662/

Thats my thread you will see a complete list of chronology from Set, Chthon, and Atum.

Gaea doesnt fight at all, so hard to put a feat. Its Oshur's appearances i am missing.

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galactus1967

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Let us say that Galactus had eaten 5 or 6 earth like planets(that has tuned into one hell of a plot devise to take on more powerful cosmic beings).Instead of being starving and losing to the ff half of the time.I don`t see any elder god after eating 1 planet beating Galactus.So even if the Vishanti jump in,I still see a hard fought victory for big G.Even though I give the Vashanti full credit for being amazingly powerful.

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ShootingNova

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Galactus is not even in this fight.

And I stand by the Celestials. The Elder Gods do not have feats transcending planetary level, while planetary attacks are consistently shown to have no perceptible effect on the Celestials.

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Hulkman123

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Celestials win.

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Hyperlight

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celestials win. the elder gods are far above skyfathers but far below celestials.

why are we talking about galactus?

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Cream_God

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To my knowledge, elder gods are below skyfathers so celestials stomp

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eternityx

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@cgoodness:

Elder Gods are above Skyfathers, but Celestials still stomp.

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Cream_God

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@eternityx: I honestly haven't seen evidence of that, Dormmamu is usually seen as equal to skyfathers an he was able to capture Gaea and it took Strange to free her.

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eternityx

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Cream_God

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eternityx

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@cgoodness:

I'm not sure then, I always though Elder Gods were > Skyfathers and that Dormammu > Skyfather

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Cream_God

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@eternityx: ya I'm still trying to figure out all the rankings and what not. And another event that makes me think Skyfather > elder god is when the God Squad defeated Atum.

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OmgOmgWtfWtf

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@cgoodness:

I'm not sure then, I always though Elder Gods were > Skyfathers and that Dormammu > Skyfather

Dormammu is not an Elder God...

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eternityx

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@eternityx said:

@cgoodness:

I'm not sure then, I always though Elder Gods were > Skyfathers and that Dormammu > Skyfather

Dormammu is not an Elder God...

No he's a demon that I thought to be more powerful than Odin or any other Skyfather.

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OmgOmgWtfWtf

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@eternityx:

Elder Gods should be stronger than Skyfather, given that Dormammu has invoked Chthon before. However, they are severely lacking in the feats department.

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OmgOmgWtfWtf

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#49  Edited By OmgOmgWtfWtf

@omgomgwtfwtf: wasn't Sinifer a elder god turned demon though?

No, Sinifer, as far as I know, is a Fatline, which are extradimensional beings composed of energy. Dormammau and Umar killed him by turning his energy form into physical matter.

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