CCC Gilgamesh with Avalon vs. Mercurius

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teozepot

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Bloodlusted extreme to the wank max

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lmaolmaolmao

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Extremely wanked gilgamesh can solo his own verse.His verse has an omnipotent root that us the source of all creation

==>Gilgamesh is omnipotence+

He wins

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HukO

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#5  Edited By HukO

Extremely wanked gilgamesh can solo his own verse.His verse has an omnipotent root that us the source of all creation

==>Gilgamesh is omnipotence+

He wins

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ZeWaDo

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How strong is Mercurius?

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Myriad_Star

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Mercurius got this.

CCC Gilgamesh is stronger then Reinhard but is about that level of power.

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chasekilleen

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#9  Edited By chasekilleen

@myriad_star said:

Mercurius got this.

CCC Gilgamesh is stronger then Reinhard but is about that level of power.

WAIT WHAT!!!

Reinhard and Mercurius are the same in power level!!

Reinhard can do the exact things as Mercurius. Reinhard exists and accidentally crushes Gilgamesh and the entire Moon Cell and also the real world of Fate Extra.

But Reinhard can just throw his spear and kill Gilgamesh

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HukO

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Merc

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HukO

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i can see this being turn into new drama back in discord

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Myriad_Star

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@myriad_star said:

Mercurius got this.

CCC Gilgamesh is stronger then Reinhard but is about that level of power.

WAIT WHAT!!!

Reinhard and Mercurius are the same in power level!!

Reinhard can do the exact things as Mercurius. Reinhard exists and accidentally crushes Gilgamesh and the entire Moon Cell and also the real world of Fate Extra.

But Reinhard can just throw his spear and kill Gilgamesh

Really? I thought Mercurius was stronger than Reinhard?

Also, I went according to this:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/gilgamesh-ccc-vs-reinhard-heydrich-2045011/?page=1

And I do believe CCC Gil can take on Reinhard, but it would be a hard fight- I would argue that Gil just barely comes on top.

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lmaolmaolmao

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#13  Edited By lmaolmaolmao

@chasekilleen said:
@myriad_star said:

Mercurius got this.

CCC Gilgamesh is stronger then Reinhard but is about that level of power.

WAIT WHAT!!!

Reinhard and Mercurius are the same in power level!!

Reinhard can do the exact things as Mercurius. Reinhard exists and accidentally crushes Gilgamesh and the entire Moon Cell and also the real world of Fate Extra.

But Reinhard can just throw his spear and kill Gilgamesh

Really? I thought Mercurius was stronger than Reinhard?

Also, I went according to this:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/gilgamesh-ccc-vs-reinhard-heydrich-2045011/?page=1

And I do believe CCC Gil can take on Reinhard, but it would be a hard fight- I would argue that Gil just barely comes on top.

It depends on if you decide to scale gilgamesh to BB or not.I have seen people generally argue that Gilgamesh wont scale to BB,given their fight had a lot of context.

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Myriad_Star

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@lmaolmaolmao: While that is true. I argue that Gilgamesh could defeat BB, though he is probably slightly weaker than her.

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chasekilleen

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Really? I thought Mercurius was stronger than Reinhard?

I'm being honest, both Mercurius and Reinhard has the same power level as each and the thread you sent above was quite old.

The shield itself in Kajiri Kamui Kagura is 24D

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"It is a twenty-fourth dimensional barrier halting blows from all sides. An absolute barrier which phase transition impacts. It manifested betwen Yakou and Ootake"

But, I DO NOT tend to us dimensional scaling in cross verse battles because every fiction works differently.

And I do believe CCC Gil can take on Reinhard, but it would be a hard fight- I would argue that Gil just barely comes on top.

Mercurius and Reinhard were tanking each other's attacks because they were equal in power to each other.

IM honest opinion. Reinhard has much better feats in AP and durability than Gilgamesh.

Because his spear has pierced the multiverse, casually destroyed a portion of the multiverse.

He has tanked an infinite multiverse/creation thrown to the past, tanked a supernova that incinerated the previous God Satanuel Nerose and a Black Hole that destroyed the entire creation, including the Throne.

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Kingxix

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@chasekilleen: What made you change your mind against CCC Gilgamesh? Didn't you supported Gilgamesh being 9-10 D bring along with zgtfreak?.

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Myriad_Star

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@chasekilleen: I honestly do not think there is anyway for Reinhard to survive a full power Enuma Elish. I mean he has those souls as back up, but Gil is a one man army with his Gate of Babylon and with Sha Naqba Imuru he can see any step that Reinhard is going to do.

Also, I'm pretty sure Enkidu could hold Reinhard down for a while. Along, with Gae Bolg having an insta-kill if it gets Reinhard right. Fragarch is also an option.

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chasekilleen

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#19  Edited By chasekilleen

@myriad_star:

I honestly do not think there is anyway for Reinhard to survive a full power Enuma Elish.

Reinhard has survived literally when Mercurius took the entire infinite creation upon his hand and threw it at him Reinhard.

Not only does the Throne allow an individual to become a God, but the Throne itself had also undergone ascension. Originally it was just a regular, if extremely powerful, device that allowed for control of the universe. But after Mercurius emanated his law which led to the birth of endless new universes, timelines and dimensions, the Throne itself changed into something that cannot be described in words that allows for the absolute

We see here that Mercurius has created infinite timelines/multiverse and also dimensions and he literally threw it towards Reinhard and all their attacks are conceptual. So conceptual attacks are nothing new to Reinhard.

Hadou God's like Reinhard are also much stronger than Soujirou Mibu, a Gudou God.

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"Kajiri Kamui - Kei Tsunushi Futsumitama no ken: Soujirou's Taikyoku, Gudou type, born from his desire I want to become a blade. Desire to become the strongest swordsman in the world. It's the ultimate destination Soujirou has long sought. But everything would eventually be cut, leaving nothing for the God of the Sword. Eventually, he found a person to love and cut forever, one that desires to receive the gleam of his sword, one in which he desires to reach her core. Ability of this law is "cutting all that exists". From the physical to the metaphysical, tangible or intangible, concrete or abstract, everything is severed. Lifespan, luck, law, soul, distance, time, infinite possibilities, fate, space, dimensions, spirits, All is slashed. While his Taikyoku may seem to be surpassed, it will still affect his targets. First the flesh is severed, then his law goes deeper down to the "core" of everything. Moreover, as this Law turns Soujirou into the "sword" himself, this ability works with anything, even chopsticks or even bare handed will cause a cutting phenomenon. Logic no longer applies to him, so idea that a single swing result in a single slash is nonexistent. There's no concept of swinging, so everything is hit. Distance doesn't even matter as it is cut too, so his distance infinite."

Hadou God's like Reainhard can even tank this guy's attack. A Gudou God that can cut things within dualities. Which Gilgamesh never really did anything to this degree.

And also Taikyoku level is a big factor. Reinhard's Taikyoku is 90, Soujirou's is 60.

Either way Hadou God's >>>>>>> Gudou God's.

Also, I'm pretty sure Enkidu could hold Reinhard down for a while. Along, with Gae Bolg having an insta-kill if it gets Reinhard right. Fragarch is also an option.

No, Enkidu can't bind Reinhard as a Hadou God, because in Shinza verse isn't the same as God's in Nasu verse. A God in Nasu verse is a God and have divinity because they are worshiped, whereas a Hadou God isn't, so therefore it would not be effective to Hadou God's like Reinhard, even in theory it did bind Reinhard, Reinhard would just shrug it off because even Enkidu's Chains of Heaven did really nothing to Tiamat, the Goddess and Mother of all Lives on Earth, that had monstrous strength skill and Enkidu's Chains are stronger than Gilgamesh's because Enkidu's Chains uses Gaia amp as a backup. So, Enkidu's Chains of Heaven couldn't even bind the highest Divinity Goddess, also had Gaia's backup and it is stronger than Gilgamesh's Enkidu. Don't think even Enkidu can bind even Reinhard...

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By the way, all Hadou God's are a walking multiverse. Is Gilgamesh gonna bind multiverses??

The universe here is mistranslation. The raw texts said that it was 多元宇宙 meaning, multiverse, in Chinese and also Kanji.

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Myriad_Star

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@chasekilleen: I just went through a whole explanation but for some reason it didn't post.

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@chasekilleen:

Information on Ea as it is relevant to the discussion:

While Ea is categorized as a sword, its way of being is closer to a wand. Its three sections respectively represent the heavens, the earth, and the underworld. It exemplifies the world's way of being by having each one of them rotate in opposite directions. The "cosmos" is thus represented by matching all three of these representations. Everything together represents the universe.

As it is "The Sword That Cut the World Apart", he calls it “something that knows the hellish planet before genesis”, the planet's primordial form before heaven and earth were split, where it was a land filled with naught but lava and gas and a hell of scorching heat and intense cold. Referring to it as hell, Gilgamesh states that it is the source of all legends of the land of the dead. The memory of the time before the existence of the planet, a place and time when organic existence had been impossible, is something possessed by all organisms, but it is no longer found in the imaginations or spoken memories of people. It is the first memory of life that is a genetically inherent and repressed knowledge which can only be shown to those looking upon the sword.

Borne of the winds drawn unto the revolution of the three cylinders of Ea, a spatial severance is formed by use of the Sword of Separation. Compressed and intertwined stratifications of wind become a virtual dislocation of space-time, annihilating any who would stand in opposition. Aside from holding an elimination rank "Armor Class" statistic of a sufficient magnitude to resist Purging, or enacting mutual negation via a counterattack that inflicts the same order of damage, the damage rendered cannot be defended against.

Grinding at the laws of space with its power, it creates a rip in space that extends from not only the earth but also to the sky and atmosphere. It is a crack that distorts space to pierce the very nature of the World itself to show the "Truth." All that uses the cut space as a foundation is swallowed and crushed by the void, and the dazzling light only continues to grow as it continues to complete the destruction. Its use in a fight is not something that can be called a battle, but rather the wrath of nature itself.

Performing the miracle of genesis, something that reveals creation - the beginning of everything, the attack opens an abyss capable of crushing anything. The center of the storm is not calm, but rather a hole to hell itself that returns all that enters its realm to the nothingness from which it originated. The wind pressure creates a vacuum that takes all things with form, the land, the atmosphere, and the sky, into the whirling void. The tumult of genesis takes everything that was nothing more than chaos, which could not form any meaning, and creates a new truth that divides and distinguishes Heaven, Sea, and Earth. Within the darkness where everything is returned to nothingness, only Ea is left to shine with brilliance like a Star of Creation amidst the destruction, the first thing illuminating the new world.

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Ea

If that doesn't work he also has Fragarach:

It warps causality to always strike the opponent in the heart with a needle thin concentrated blast right before they unleash their ultimate attack. The condition for its use is that the opponent must use their strongest attack, and Fragarach must be used directly after the enemy's strike.

Despite being released afterwards and no matter how fast the opposing attack is cast, Fragarach always strikes first by changing the flow of time to rewrite events so that it makes its own strike against the enemy before the opposing move was ever made in the course of the world. Rather than just rewriting events to gouge out the heart of the enemy, it is severing the fate of the combatants, reversing and changing the flow of destiny of both the user and the enemy simultaneously killing each other with their attacks. The attack of the enemy, returned to a point where it "couldn't happen" due to the user being struck down by Fragarach, is wiped out by the laws of the world and the absolute system of time. No matter the power or speed of the ability, it is impossible to use if the enemy is defeated and has all of their later actions voided before they even have a chance to attack. It is an ability using one's life as bait to counter a one-turn-kill to win the battle that both kills the enemy and nullifies their attack, creating a perfect balance between offensive and defensive capabilities.

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Fragarach

Or even Gae Bolg:

It literally freezes the mana in the air, and it can easily be perceived as a sure-kill technique by all those around simply from being charged with magical energy. Once Gáe Bolg's name has been called, the cursed spear reverses the nature of causality, the meaning of "cause and effect" in the order of things, to make it so the cause of the "lance being thrust" comes from the effect of the "opponent's heart being pierced" by it. It determines the opponent's fate simply through its use, an always fatal move that pierces the heart with one thrust. It is also possible for him to activate it without actively striking the heart.

The actual action of the thrust is merely a formality, as the lance has already pierced the opponent's heart before the attack has even started. The "result" of "the heart of the opponent has been pierced" is created earlier than it is thrust, while the "cause" that "the lance has pierced through the heart" is generated later. Aside from great luck, it is a technique that determines "if it is released, the opponent is dead."

The lance can move at impossible angles, signified by turning into a red beam of light, that always manages to reach its target.

This action looks completely normal to onlookers, as if it were already piercing the heart, because rather than truly changing its course, it changes the means to match the result simply as an action meant to prove the fact that the heart was pierced. It can only be used against living beings, so it would have no particular effect against inanimate objects like rocks or houses.

The lance curses the target upon striking them, delivering wounds that cannot be healed while Gáe Bolg still exists in the world. While Lancer mentions that even a regular thrust through his heart would be hard to heal, being struck by the Noble Phantasm gives the greatest effect. As the "lance of cause and effect", it curses them, leaving them unable to change their fate without great luck.

The attack delivers damage equal to the opponent's own health limit plus the damage from the spear itself, so the wound will be fatal no matter the opponent once they are struck.

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/G%C3%A1e_Bolg

While Gae Bolg normally has short range, under Gilgamesh it no longer would due to his Sha Naqba Imuru.

It is a "continuously active-type Noble Phantasm" that does not require its name to be invoked, but it is assumed that Gilgamesh keeps it intentionally restrained. Possessing tremendous efficiency, it can discern heavily concealed truths with a single glance, from that of the opponent's True Name and Noble Phantasms to possibly even seeing through a piece of the truth of the demise of human history in the Grand Orders of Fate/Grand Order.[1] Upon releasing its True Name, it will work as a form of "instruction" for him to guide others with the most optimal tactics, simultaneously increasing the attack power and defense power of his whole team near his position.

Gilgamesh is a clairvoyance user with a "sense of 'sight' several levels above the ordinary."[3][4] When facing him in a game like chess, he claims that even someone making advanced predictions and reading the flow of the game will have already lost at that moment. He does not read the future of the chess board, but instead gazes down upon and oversees it, allowing the correct move to always be visible to him. Even in something like a card game, the very minimum requirement to play against him on equal terms would be to draw the precise hand required.

He can also see the possibilities of various parallel worlds should he so choose, but, as a Heroic Spirit, the Throne of Heroes normally adjusts his memories and knowledge to the world in which he is summoned in to keep him from being confused by multiple sets of memories. Even with this ability, his personality would cause him to reject certain world lines as nonsense, such as using clairvoyance to see something like a possibility of a world where he is swallowed by the mud of the grail.

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Sha_Naqba_Imuru

Of course, unlike his arrogant Archer self- CCC Gil actually utilizes it and is willing to utilize its full power.

Now onto stuff you said:

No, Enkidu can't bind Reinhard as a Hadou God, because in Shinza verse isn't the same as God's in Nasu verse. A God in Nasu verse is a God and have divinity because they are worshiped, whereas a Hadou God isn't, so therefore it would not be effective to Hadou God's like Reinhard, even in theory it did bind Reinhard, Reinhard would just shrug it off because even Enkidu's Chains of Heaven did really nothing to Tiamat, the Goddess and Mother of all Lives on Earth, that had monstrous strength skill and Enkidu's Chains are stronger than Gilgamesh's because Enkidu's Chains uses Gaia amp as a backup. So, Enkidu's Chains of Heaven couldn't even bind the highest Divinity Goddess, also had Gaia's backup and it is stronger than Gilgamesh's Enkidu. Don't think even Enkidu can bind even Reinhard...

First and foremost, that was not CCC Gilgamesh (who is the strongest form of Gil).

Second, while Divine Spirits did come into being by worship and require it to be truly powerful, they don't necessarily need it to live. They are just weakened. Also, some Divine Spirits form due to the terror of the people. By those standards I thought Reinhard would count as one, I am willing to admit if I am wrong on this though.

Third, did Tiamat break free of the Chains? I don't remember such a thing happening. However, I am willing to admit I am wrong about this as well. Please provide scans though so that I can have proof.

By the way, all Hadou God's are a walking multiverse. Is Gilgamesh gonna bind multiverses??

They are indeed. However:

Once activating it as a Noble Phantasm, numerous segments instantly appear to wrap around the opponent in order to bind them for his projectiles. The opponent is given the status effect of being binded and having sustained damage inflicted on them.[1] It is shown both descending from the sky and appearing directly from inside the Gate of Babylon. He generally binds the opponent's weapon, limbs, shoulders, neck, and abdomen, rendering them completely immobile. The chains continuously twist and tighten with enough force to attempt to tear off Berserker's head and bend his arms past their limits in a normally impossible direction. It appears to even bind the space around itself, and it is capable of rendering transportation ordered by a Command Spell, which is capable of magecraft close to that of True Magic, completely useless and nullified.

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Enkidu_(Noble_Phantasm)

While the wiki is mediocre in explaining Enkidu (and Sha Naqba Imuru) I don't personally have the scans on me right now. Though @zgtfreak would.

This is just an abridged version of my original answer and I am upset that all that hard work went to waste.

Also, as this is my first debate please tell me if I missed anything or could do something better. Please and thank you.

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Myriad_Star

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Also, I just realized that it says "Wank Max" in the OP.

In which case, we utilize godgate's interpretation of Gil who is above Omnipotence.

Of course, the real power of Gil is nowhere near that level of power.

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GilGate

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Gilgamesh stomps. He doesn’t need to use EA.

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HukO

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#25  Edited By HukO

^ pls do not engage for your own safety

Pls this is a request even to my worst enemies

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Myriad_Star

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@huko: You mean gilgate correct?

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chasekilleen

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@myriad_star: Thank you for the information, I am aware of some the information you have sent like Ea, Sha Naqba Imuru and etc...

I don't think that Gilgamesh can put Reinhard down for good. He has tanked everything from the weapons you have said up there. Like conceptual erasure, he has tanked an attack from Mercurius when he makes all of existence into an elementary particle and sends it into the past of the opponent, thus causing a paradox and erasing them from existence and also Mercurius takes all stars in existence and condenses them into a single black hole that erases the multiverse and even the throne.

Reinhard can't die unless Mercurius dies.

Enkidu chains wouldn't work on Reinhard because his strength is much bigger.

For your information Reinhard's spear is enough IMO since it follows three laws, it is always faster, it erases them conceptually and it never misses its target. The spear can also transcend the very concept of space and distance, crossing even dimensional borders. No realm is safe, for there are no place where this lance can't reach. and can target anyone no matter which dimension they are in.

Reinhard and Mercurius' power are literally the same level.

And all Hadou God's can do the exact same thing as each other.

Reinhard can perform the same things as Mercurius.

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chasekilleen

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@myriad_star: I JUST REALISED THAT THIS IS MERCURIUS VS GILGAMESH NOT REINHARD LMFAO 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

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Myriad_Star

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#29  Edited By Myriad_Star

@chasekilleen:

Reinhard’s spear seems to be a combo of Fragarach, Gáe Bolg, and Sha Naqba Imuru. With a couple more powers.

While I can agree that if Reinhard is the same level of power as Mercurius that he would beat Gilgamesh. I still think Ea can probably destroy or at least take down Reinhard for a long time. Due to its property of returning things to their genesis.

Can all the Hadou Gods do all the same things as each other? I didn’t think that was possible because they all had their own Atziluh and Briah.

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Myriad_Star

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@chasekilleen:

I knew it was, however, everyone knows that Mercurius would beat Gil.

I wanted to figure out how Reinhard works.

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chasekilleen

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Can all the Hadou Gods do all the same things as each other? I didn’t think that was possible because they all had their own Atziluh and Briah.

They indeed can because all Hadou God's are baseline above all shinra bansho meaning all creations, including the dimensions and also multiverses. Because a single Taikyoku level is above shinra bansho. Mercurius, Reinhard, Ren, Marie all have a 90 Taikyoku.

A Taikyoku shouldn't be used in cross battles because it is just used to measure who would win between the Hadou God's if they were to battle. The weakest Hadou God can do the same thing as a Hadou God like Reinhard/Mercurius/Ren/Marie.

Atziluth is when they start to emanate their entire Laws unto reality itself. The Laws are based off of the desire of the Hadou God. You're confusing with the feat that they can perform to the desire they passively output towards reality.

All Hadou God's Laws are different and the effects of it are different too, but they can do the same as what the other Hadou God's can do.

For example both Ren and Reinhard can boost other members of their legion to the same level as themselves and also Ren can use the same attack Sequere Naturam as Mercurius and etc...

Reinhard is just as broken as Mercurius.

Can use any one of his millions upon millions of Legion to attack and use any of their powers, can manifest them physically and they are boosted to the same level as Reinhard himself and they can't die no matter what...

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Myriad_Star

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Myriad_Star

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@huko:

Ok, cool just wanted to make sure.

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Gilgamesh stomps.

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HukO

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Merc stomps

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GilGate

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Gilgamesh stomps this blue haired loser 10/10.

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DamnINeedABreak

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merc stomps

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GodGate

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Gil stomps

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Antti

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lmao, Mercurius stomps Gil

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Anaverageguy123

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@antti said:

lmao, Mercurius stomps Gil

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Bruh

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chasekilleen

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Stop necroing this thread

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Garobesthero1

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Gilgamesh breathes and solos fiction.

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chasekilleen

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@garobesthero1: No... He does not...

But after Mercurius emanated his law which led to the birth of endless new universes, timelines and dimensions, the Throne itself changed into something that cannot be described in words that allows for the absolute dominion of all of reality.

Mercurius literally speaks and Gilgamesh dies.

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